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| How are you voting? |
| DEMOCRAT |
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50% |
[ 30 ] |
| REPUBLICAN |
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18% |
[ 11 ] |
| INDEPENDENT |
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11% |
[ 7 ] |
| WRITE IN |
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5% |
[ 3 ] |
| NOT VOTING |
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10% |
[ 6 ] |
| OTHER |
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5% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 60 |
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| Author |
Message |
DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52650
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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 Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| fansincemagic wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | lakerjoshua wrote: | | fansincemagic wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | fansincemagic wrote: | | Non-Hillary to the point where I may write in "Not Hillary" |
Well, if you're going to make stupid choice, at least your open and honest about it. |
I was messing around. The last thing I want to do is not vote, but I just don't have enough faith in Trump and can't bring myself to support Hillary. It is Trump or no vote at this point. |
dMRs comment still applies. |
Funny how that works out to "vote the way I do or you are stupid." |
Nice try . . . but the point is not "vote the way I do or you are stupid".
It's if you vote for Trump you are. To do so would be to allow yourself to get sucked into a charlatan's obvious con. And it's a con that is dangerous for everyone. |
So Hillary is not a dangerous choice? |
Actually, if you're making the accusation she's so dangerous, go ahead and make it. The way it works is that if you are going to claim someone is dangerous, it's on you to prove that argument - not put the responsibility on other to prove the negative.
| Quote: | | Rather than everyone playing the your stupid card, why not take an opportunity to sell me on Hillary? |
It shouldn't take a sell job given her opponent. Unless one leans towards homophobia, xenophobia, sexism, racism and tyranny, the su=ituation sells itself.
| Quote: | | I just don't see enough of it. |
Because you're intentionally not looking if that's your position.
| Quote: | | Of her supporters, I see too much "I'm with her because Trump is Hitler". |
There has been plenty of discussion about Hilary beyond your carefully selected meme.
| Quote: | | Ok cool, but who is Hillary? |
The fact that you have to ask that says a great about your disingenuousness, but I'll play along regardless.
Hilary is a woman who has dedicated the majority of her adult life to public service. She has fought for those who have had the deck stacked against them. She has tons of experience as both an elected official and as a member of a Presidential administration. She's a person who has managed to hold her head high while being pummeled with countless, and baseless, investigations and has never once seen those charges actually be proven. She's been proven to be the most honest candidate in this current election. She's going to make sure that the rights of women, minorities, and the LBGT community are protected from those on the Right like Trump. She actually has an economic plan, as opposed to the man who proudly Trumpets his bankruptcies.
I could go on and on even though Hilary isn't my preferred candidate, but she's undoubtedly the most qualified and productive one.
| Quote: | | Benazi happened, the E-mails are real no matter technicalities of being labeled classified I don't trust her judgement. She was found as innocent as OJ but still called careless, so even if you believe she's just careless, being bad at your job is at least an issue when you want me to promote you to President. |
Huh? I can't respond to unintelligible rants.
| Quote: | | There are too many gray areas and bodies in her past, |
Ahh I get it. You;re one of those tinfoil hat types . . . not sure I'm why I'm wasting my time here.
| Quote: | | and she's unaccountable. |
Oh please. She's been scrutinized, dissected, investigated and been shaken down at the expense of countless hours and dollars, and yet nothing that has been thrown at her has landed. She's been the most held accountable person of the last decade and a half.
| Quote: | | The positive I'll give her is she actually called out BLM members from interrupting her and asked "what do you want". I also won't hold the rigging against her, that was the DNC. She waffles a lot, but I was pro Rubio for a while so as long as you get something actually right I'm game. She may be effective in some areas, but I don't trust her. Someone sell me on trusting her as not being dangerous. If we don't see eye to eye on what dangerous is so be it. |
Again, if you're going to make the assertion that she's so dangerous, the onus is on you to explain how so. Not for others to disprove it. So go ahead, tell us why she is dangerous (without resorting to cliched memes and disproven accusations) . . .
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Not Hillary and not Trump. That is like picking between a kick in the knee and a kick in the nuts. Where is Ross Perot when you need him.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Not Hillary and not Trump. That is like picking between a kick in the knee and a kick in the nuts. Where is Ross Perot when you need him. |
This kind of mindless nonsense cracks me up.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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lakerjoshua
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Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 11277
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | lakerjoshua wrote: | | fansincemagic wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | fansincemagic wrote: | | Non-Hillary to the point where I may write in "Not Hillary" |
Well, if you're going to make stupid choice, at least your open and honest about it. |
I was messing around. The last thing I want to do is not vote, but I just don't have enough faith in Trump and can't bring myself to support Hillary. It is Trump or no vote at this point. |
dMRs comment still applies. |
Funny how that works out to "vote the way I do or you are stupid." |
As you know, that's common here. |
I'm allowed my opinions and I'll never claim they are anything more than opinion. As such I'll comment on things based on my opinion. I'm sure you both can relate to that sentiment, yes? |
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doughboy90650
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Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Independent. So I can see the BS flying from both sides. Really don't have a dog in the fight. Kinda tough. |
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fiendishoc
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Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| I'll be voting pro-science and anti-torture. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| doughboy90650 wrote: | | I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Independent. So I can see the BS flying from both sides. Really don't have a dog in the fight. Kinda tough. |
Gary Johnson. |
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doughboy90650
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I guess you vote against the one who would have the nuke codes and actually use them before thinking rationally. |
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doughboy90650
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | doughboy90650 wrote: | | I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Independent. So I can see the BS flying from both sides. Really don't have a dog in the fight. Kinda tough. |
Gary Johnson. |
Actually leaning that way. |
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Reflexx
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Not Hillary and not Trump. That is like picking between a kick in the knee and a kick in the nuts. Where is Ross Perot when you need him. |
This kind of mindless nonsense cracks me up. |
What makes it "mindless" other than being a different view than yours? |
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Reflexx
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| doughboy90650 wrote: | | I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Independent. So I can see the BS flying from both sides. Really don't have a dog in the fight. Kinda tough. |
Sounds Libertarian. |
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | doughboy90650 wrote: | | I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Independent. So I can see the BS flying from both sides. Really don't have a dog in the fight. Kinda tough. |
Gary Johnson. |
What does it mean to be "fiscally conservative" these days? I understand that libertarianism has branded itself as the home for the fiscally conservative & socially liberal...but what exactly does that mean? Unregulated, free markets? Who do you think wins & loses within that framework? |
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OregonLakerGuy
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | doughboy90650 wrote: | | I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Independent. So I can see the BS flying from both sides. Really don't have a dog in the fight. Kinda tough. |
Gary Johnson. |
What does it mean to be "fiscally conservative" these days? I understand that libertarianism has branded itself as the home for the fiscally conservative & socially liberal...but what exactly does that mean? Unregulated, free markets? Who do you think wins & loses within that framework? |
I am not well versed in all areas of libertarian philosophy, but I will give it a crack.
Being fiscally conservative conceptually means that government spending should be done only when absolutely necessary to fulfill a legitimate government function, such as law enforcement locally and defense nationally. I use the term defense advisedly by the way. Offense is almost never supported by libertarians in foreign relations. For libertarians, who wins and who loses is not for some elected collective to decide. Having a government choose winners and losers is morally wrong and will inevitably lead to abuse like cronyism. Being fiscally conservative in the real world and with today's trillion dollar "budgets" would mean that instead of always finding ways to spend more money, we should find ways to dial it back whenever possible. Real hardcore libertarians want to chop big hunks of the government out. Fiscal conservatives tend to be more practical and simply want to reverse the trend.
As far as socially liberal, the libertarian is absolutely uninterested in what another person does with and to themselves as long as they are not infringing on the rights of others. Practically, this means any kind of marriage that anyone wants to engage in is their business as long as it is consensual. Abortion rights are a medical issue between a doctor and a patient. The war on drugs is stupid, racist and immoral. Freedom of and freedom from religion are absolute. The list goes on, but you can see why libertarians are called socially liberal.
I have probably mangled this. I know I am rambling. To be fair, it is off the top of my head at 2:40 am.  |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | doughboy90650 wrote: | | I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Independent. So I can see the BS flying from both sides. Really don't have a dog in the fight. Kinda tough. |
Gary Johnson. |
What does it mean to be "fiscally conservative" these days? I understand that libertarianism has branded itself as the home for the fiscally conservative & socially liberal...but what exactly does that mean? Unregulated, free markets? Who do you think wins & loses within that framework? |
I'd say in simple terms, it really just means moderate or centrist.
I don't think any libertarian today believes in 100% deregulation of the marketplace just as any liberal doesn't believe in a 100% government controlled marketplace.
There's a healthy balance there, somewhere. And I think those that strive for that balance are the ones who consider themselves more fiscally conservative than your average liberal and more social liberally than your average conservative (as opposed to being on the extreme ends of both). |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Not Hillary and not Trump. That is like picking between a kick in the knee and a kick in the nuts. Where is Ross Perot when you need him. |
This kind of mindless nonsense cracks me up. |
What makes it "mindless" other than being a different view than yours? |
It's mindless because it perpetuates a baseless cliche that is completely lacking in intelligence and substance.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:06 am Post subject: |
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A fiscal conservative believes that the government should by nature have as small an economic footprint as possible, and that economics are the purview of a private, free market economy. Thus, the government should provide only the services that are not able to be provided by the market (and there is a broad continuum among conservatives about what those services are, with the most extreme believing that only defense/security, roads, and a criminal/legal system qualify as government responsibilities, while others believe things like mail, primary education, and broader public safety regulation apply). Some of the hallmarks of fiscal conservativism are low taxes, low to non existent debt, low regulation (primarily on business), and are integrally combined with the idea that the limited powers of government should be held by the lowest level of government possible.
Social conservatism, which is significantly at odds with the principles governing fiscal conservatism (primarily the idea of limited government) holds that the government has an interest in and a power to perpetuate traditional social values, primarily those derived from judeo-Christian religious traditions. Hence such things as prohibiting homosexual acts or rights, closely defined marriage statutes, comingling of religious iconography and public institutions, and the prohibition of programs and laws that promote diversity or gender equity through the force of government. It fosters the idea of freedom, provided the freedom is primarily based around the exercise of traditional norms. It's principles are irrevocably derived from the traditional white, male, and Christian (usually protestant, although that has changed some) perspective. Traditional roles and beliefs are seen as intrinsic American values, which gives them primacy over non traditional ones.
Liberalism actually does not actually have a separation of social and fiscal wings, because the tenets of liberalism define them as linked. Liberalism believes in both the right and obligation of the society, through its government, to address social and economic inequities. As such, economic safety nets, rights of women, minorities, the disabled, labor, and all religious or non religious views require intervention, including economic intervention and regulation, and the right of the government to tax, and for that tax to be progressive. Liberalism tends to push authority higher up the governmental hierarchy as a way of ensuring equality of law and regulation and protection across society.
In short, both conservatism and Liberalism believe in the sovereignty of the individual, but while the former believes that is best achieved if government is limited and does not impede them (except again in the case of social conservatism, where the government has a duty to protect traditional social mores), Liberalism holds that only the government can truly enforce and perpetuate actual freedom and fairness. Both agree on the conceptual ideals of freedom and fairness, they just differ on how it is achieved.
When people tell you they are fiscally conservative but socially liberal, they really mean they are socially libertarian, in that they don't believe in the government making significant lifestyle choices illegal, but they don't tend to support the force of the government used to ensure or strengthen the protection of those freedoms in the private sphere. A current example would be the belief that being gay should be legal, but that the government shouldn't dictate that a Baker has to sell gay people a cake.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Not Hillary and not Trump. That is like picking between a kick in the knee and a kick in the nuts. Where is Ross Perot when you need him. |
This kind of mindless nonsense cracks me up. |
What makes it "mindless" other than being a different view than yours? |
It's mindless because it perpetuates a baseless cliche that is completely lacking in intelligence and substance. |
You do realize whether a person thinks Hillary sucks as a presidential candidate or not, is entirely an opinion right?
I mean, wouldn't you agree that it is more "mindless" just to purely on party lines? That doesn't utilize much of the mind, really. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Not Hillary and not Trump. That is like picking between a kick in the knee and a kick in the nuts. Where is Ross Perot when you need him. |
This kind of mindless nonsense cracks me up. |
What makes it "mindless" other than being a different view than yours? |
It's mindless because it perpetuates a baseless cliche that is completely lacking in intelligence and substance. |
Maybe in your clueless world, but if one pays attention to the real world they would see that this is the worst pair of Presidential candidates we have had. Of course I would never expect you to see beyond your own nose and beliefs, grasping what is really going on is something you fail at doing.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Huey Lewis & The News
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Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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Reflexx
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Not Hillary and not Trump. That is like picking between a kick in the knee and a kick in the nuts. Where is Ross Perot when you need him. |
This kind of mindless nonsense cracks me up. |
What makes it "mindless" other than being a different view than yours? |
It's mindless because it perpetuates a baseless cliche that is completely lacking in intelligence and substance. |
That really didnt say anything intelligent or of subtance.
It's just an excuse to call other people mindless if they don'ttow the line. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Guys, please don't turn a thread meant to see how posters are voting into a pissing contest. Dem have a good lead.  Hope it's nationwide.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Guys, please don't turn a thread meant to see how posters are voting into a pissing contest. Dem have a good lead. Hope it's nationwide. |
Actually, there are more votes for 'Other than Dem' Better hope the 'Others' don't figure that out and unite. 
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Guys, please don't turn a thread meant to see how posters are voting into a pissing contest. Dem have a good lead. Hope it's nationwide. |
Actually, there are more votes for 'Other than Dem' Better hope the 'Others' don't figure that out and unite. |
What poll are you referring to? There are only 2 other votes in this one.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Guys, please don't turn a thread meant to see how posters are voting into a pissing contest. Dem have a good lead. Hope it's nationwide. |
Actually, there are more votes for 'Other than Dem' Better hope the 'Others' don't figure that out and unite. |
What poll are you referring to? There are only 2 other votes in this one. |
Add up all the votes for Non Democrat. There's more of them. Better hope they don't get smart and figure out their numerical superiority and band together.
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Add up all votes for non Repub or any other entity and apply the same.
Other is a option on it's own.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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