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audioaxes
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | governator wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | The Dallas series should have been the soft rebuild moment. Instead they kept trying and trying and eventually it bit them in the ass. That's not on Jim Buss either. |
Nash/Howard seemed fine on paper. But clearly our plan was to have CP3/Howard, which is a better upgrade.
I commend them for picking themselves off the mat to get that deal, but it just didn't work. Stuff happens and we paid (and are still paying for probably another year) for it.
But I do think better times are up ahead. |
I might be in the minority but that summer, I really thought we would finally see Kobe vs LeBron in the finals once we got Nash/D12 |
No you're not. I think most of us did. That was a really good recovery move to get Nash/Howard (and Jamison and J.Hill). It just didn't work out. Oh well. |
exactly and it wasnt just Laker fans... the consensus everywhere was that the Lakers made out like bandits again while on their way to becoming heavy title favorites. |
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tox
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Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | governator wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | The Dallas series should have been the soft rebuild moment. Instead they kept trying and trying and eventually it bit them in the ass. That's not on Jim Buss either. |
Nash/Howard seemed fine on paper. But clearly our plan was to have CP3/Howard, which is a better upgrade.
I commend them for picking themselves off the mat to get that deal, but it just didn't work. Stuff happens and we paid (and are still paying for probably another year) for it.
But I do think better times are up ahead. |
I might be in the minority but that summer, I really thought we would finally see Kobe vs LeBron in the finals once we got Nash/D12 |
No you're not. I think most of us did. That was a really good recovery move to get Nash/Howard (and Jamison and J.Hill). It just didn't work out. Oh well. |
exactly and it wasnt just Laker fans... the consensus everywhere was that the Lakers made out like bandits again while on their way to becoming heavy title favorites. |
Especially with the Harden trade crippling their ostensible main competition. |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | The VETO has put us in the position we are now.
And as much as Kobe's extension hurt, it was the honorable thing to do for a guy who brought so much winning to the Lakers.
More than anything, losing CP3 which in turn meant we lost LO and then Pau killed this team. |
I agree. The extension was just icing on the cake.
Then again, I'd say it wasn't so much the veto, as it was our unwillingness to start the rebuild process until it became forced upon us. While I don't agree with our approach, I understand it. |
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Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Some are making things too complicated.
Current Roster :
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Luol Deng
Mozgov
Jianlin
Calderon
Lou Williams
Tarik Black *
Nick Young
Huertas
Randle
Clarkson
Russell
Nance
Brown
Ingram
Zubac
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After removing players not drafted by the Lakers.
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Randle
Clarkson
Russell
Nance
Brown
Ingram
Zubac
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After removing the young players who are still developing and thus weren't in their prime years when the Lakers had a veteran team that could have used an infusion of skilled youth.
List of Los Angeles First and Second Round Draft Picks
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1998 1 #26 Sam Jacobson United States SG/SF
1998 2 #31 Ruben Patterson (from Vancouver)[o] United States SF
1998 2 #45 Toby Bailey (traded to Phoenix)[p] United States SG
1999 1 #23 Devean George United States SF
1999 2 #30 John Celestand (from Vancouver)[o] United States SG
2000 1 #29 Mark Madsen United States PF/C
2002 1 #27 Chris Jefferies (traded to Toronto)[q] United States SF
2003 1 #24 Brian Cook United States PF
2003 2 #32 Luke Walton United States SF
2004 1 #27 Sasha Vujačić Slovenia G
2004 2 #56 Marcus Douthit United States PF/C
2005 1 #10 Andrew Bynum$ United States C
2005 2 #37 Ronny Turiaf (from New York via Atlanta and Charlotte)[r] France PF/C
2005 2 #39 Von Wafer United States G
2006 1 #26 Jordan Farmar (from Miami)[s] United States PG
2006 2 #51 Cheikh Samb (traded to Detroit)[t] Senegal C
2007 1 #19 Javaris Crittenton United States PG
2007 2 #40 Sun Yue (from Charlotte)[u] China PG
2007 2 #48 Marc Gasol Spain C
2008 2 #58 Joe Crawford United States SG
2009 1 #29 Toney Douglas (traded to New York)[v] United States G
2009 2 #42 Patrick Beverley (from Charlotte; traded to Miami)[r][w] United Statest G
2009 2 #59 Chinemelu Elonu United States PF/C
2010 2 #43 Devin Ebanks (from Memphis)[x] United States F
2010 2 #58 Derrick Caracter United States PF/C
2011 2 #41 Darius Morris (from Golden State Warriors via New Jersey Nets)[y] United States PG
2011 2 #46 Andrew Goudelock (from New York Knicks)[v] United States SG
2011 2 #56 Chukwudiebere Maduabum (traded to Denver Nuggets)[z] Nigeria SF
2011 2 #58 Ater Majok (from Miami Heat)[w] Australia C
2012 2 #60 Robert Sacre (from Chicago via Milwaukee and Brooklyn) Canada C
2013 2 #48 Ryan Kelly United States PF
2014 1 #7 Julius Randle United States PF
2014 2 #46 Jordan Clarkson United States SG
2015 1 #2 D'Angelo Russell United States PG
2015 1 #27 Larry Nance, Jr. United States PF
2015 2 #34 Anthony Brown United States SF
2016 1 #2 Brandon Ingram United States SF
2016 2 #32 Ivica Zubac Croatia C
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After removing the young players drafted in the past several years and Bolding the players expected to be regulars in a rotation of a NBA team this season.
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1998 1 #26 Sam Jacobson United States SG/SF
1998 2 #31 Ruben Patterson (from Vancouver)[o] United States SF
1998 2 #45 Toby Bailey (traded to Phoenix)[p] United States SG
1999 1 #23 Devean George United States SF
1999 2 #30 John Celestand (from Vancouver)[o] United States SG
2000 1 #29 Mark Madsen United States PF/C
2002 1 #27 Chris Jefferies (traded to Toronto)[q] United States SF
2003 1 #24 Brian Cook United States PF
2003 2 #32 Luke Walton United States SF
2004 1 #27 Sasha Vujačić Slovenia G
2004 2 #56 Marcus Douthit United States PF/C
2005 1 #10 Andrew Bynum$ United States C
2005 2 #37 Ronny Turiaf (from New York via Atlanta and Charlotte)[r] France PF/C
2005 2 #39 Von Wafer United States G
2006 1 #26 Jordan Farmar (from Miami)[s] United States PG
2006 2 #51 Cheikh Samb (traded to Detroit)[t] Senegal C
2007 1 #19 Javaris Crittenton United States PG
2007 2 #40 Sun Yue (from Charlotte)[u] China PG
2007 2 #48 Marc Gasol Spain C
2008 2 #58 Joe Crawford United States SG
2009 1 #29 Toney Douglas (traded to New York)[v] United States G
2009 2 #42 Patrick Beverley (from Charlotte; traded to Miami)[r][w] United Statest G
2009 2 #59 Chinemelu Elonu United States PF/C
2010 2 #43 Devin Ebanks (from Memphis)[x] United States F
2010 2 #58 Derrick Caracter United States PF/C
2011 2 #41 Darius Morris (from Golden State Warriors via New Jersey Nets)[y] United States PG
2011 2 #46 Andrew Goudelock (from New York Knicks)[v] United States SG
2011 2 #56 Chukwudiebere Maduabum (traded to Denver Nuggets)[z] Nigeria SF
2011 2 #58 Ater Majok (from Miami Heat)[w] Australia C
2012 2 #60 Robert Sacre (from Chicago via Milwaukee and Brooklyn) Canada C
2013 2 #48 Ryan Kelly United States PF
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Marc Gasol and Patrick Beverley might be the only ones that will get steady minutes in a NBA rotation this season. Both were also traded to other teams.
There are some others such as Goudelock, Sacre, T Douglas, Farmar, Wafer, Vujačic etc that might still play some in the NBA, but more at the deep bench - fringe - roster filler level.
There weren't any first round picks in the following drafts:
2001
2008
2010
2011
2012
2013
For years, a combination of drafting late and sometimes sending out first round picks to fill more immediate needs meant the team lacked a somewhat steady infusion of talented youth on rookie scale contracts. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144472
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | The Dallas series should have been the soft rebuild moment. Instead they kept trying and trying and eventually it bit them in the ass. That's not on Jim Buss either. |
Nash/Howard seemed fine on paper. But clearly our plan was to have CP3/Howard, which is a better upgrade.
I commend them for picking themselves off the mat to get that deal, but it just didn't work. Stuff happens and we paid (and are still paying for probably another year) for it.
But I do think better times are up ahead. |
I thought it was pretty clear the league was changing, as it turned out rapidly changing, but they pretty decided to stick their heads in the sand, go for bandaids, and play a style that wasn't realistically winnable anymore. If the Dallas series wasn't a good enough indication of that, the OKC series should have been proof positive. Instead they kept believing. |
They wanted Dr. Buss to get another title before he passed on, it made perfect sense.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Complete and unmitigated disaster. Even after the veto we were a second round playoff team. The decision to go with Mike D'Antoni over Phil Jackson was the real critical turning point for this franchise. There is no coming back from a blunder like that. |
So Phil coaching one season in which the team might have been lucky to make the 2nd round would have kept us out of the lottery? I really don't believe that.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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MJST
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Posts: 26386
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | Kobe's 7 game death march leading up to the Achilles tear.
3/30/2013 - 47 minutes, 4/2/2013- 47 minutes, 4/5/2013- 42 minutes, 4/7/2013- 47 minutes, 4/9/2013- 41 minutes, 4/10/2013- 48 minutes, 4/12/2013- 45 minutes
(bleep) ing disgusting, when looking back at it. What a shame. If I coached, I wouldn't do that to a 24 year old player. Let alone a 34 year old player in his 16th year in the league. And it wasn't even the playoffs. Those were regular season minute totals. |
If Nash's leg didn't break and Pau didn't start 'pick and choosing' when he had vertigo and when he didn't. Kobe wouldn't have had to do all that.
In essence the game we blew against the Wizards was a catalyst cause we could have had a solid cushion to sit on and not have to worry about forcing ourselves to make the 8th seed.
All and all, Lillard breaking Nash's leg and Isaiah Thomas running full speed into Nash intentionally on a dirty play on the first game all 4 of them played together was the start of the downfall.
People don't remember how much hell that was. And Nash's broken leg pretty much was the catalyst, then he did what he did for us basically on one leg after that. He went on a 17 out of 20 game stretch where he averaged 17/5 when he was switched to the off-ball role. which was Mike Brown's initial plan mind you.
Anyway, if the Lakers never had those injuries, and heck even with the injuries we won 70% of our games to close the season with a one legged Nash, a one armed Dwight, and a not able to run Pau Gasol.
If Kobe didn't go down we may have made a deep run in the West, especially with how Kobe was playing. Considering how close those first two games vs San Antonio were and we didn't even have Kobe, it's not out of the question.
They call it a failure but always neglect the injuries, but if it's LeBron you'd hear nothing BUT the injuries.
if Kyrie broke his leg in the 2nd game of the season and Love was constantly hurt and LeBron carried the Cavs into the playoffs like Kobe had to they'd be making a case why an 8th seeded team needed to have MVP cause of what he fought through. Kobe got none of that recognition that season. |
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Judah
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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I'd say it started with the veto because that was what caused them to lose Odom. The Lakers took a significant turn downward once that happened, and I always got the sense (and still do) that that loss wasn't taken quite as seriously as it was. Losing Odom, especially for nothing, didn't just hurt. It was a huge blow to the team talent wise because he was playing the best ball of his career. It didn't happen, but I still remember being pretty convinced at the time that Odom's play would make up for the deficiencies of that 2011 squad and be enough to get them over the hump.
Was he at the end of his career? Well, of course. Kobe and Pau were playing in their last few productive years as well, but clearly, you place yourself in a far greater position to get the most out of them if you still have all three of them playing together, rather than just two of them. Those teams during the first two years post-Odom were still pretty good, but still a notch below championship level because they desperately needed a punch off the bench, a player who could come in and give them another gear, so to speak. Odom still had enough left in the tank and could've been that guy imo. It's also worth mentioning that Kobe was radically improved from an athletic standpoint during his last two healthy years after making that trip to Germany, so who knows how far the team could've gone had they still kept Odom or if the veto hadn't happened?
From there the biggest blow came from choosing MDA over Phil once they fired Brown, which is still a shocker even to this very day. With all of the drama and chemistry problems that team had, so much of it could've been avoided (or at least alleviated) with Phil's presence. MDA wasn't reigning Kobe in. Guy had no chance. Kobe respected his offensive mind but not him as a coach. Phil could've kept Kobe in check and utilized Howard so much better, in every sense. Dwight left after that one year and the Lakers have been in the lottery ever since.
Then along came Byron and he meticulously guided the franchise from purgatory to the deepest, darkest, smelliest part of hell.
_________________
“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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LAkers 4 Life
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 14629
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Of course the veto was the impetus for their fall. The Lakers had a specific plan in mind following the lockout and were executing it. When it was rescinded because of bogus reasons, they scrambled and were stuck trying to figure out a new plan on the fly and tried to make the best out of it before they had to pay the price. |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Kobe's 7 game death march leading up to the Achilles tear.
3/30/2013 - 47 minutes, 4/2/2013- 47 minutes, 4/5/2013- 42 minutes, 4/7/2013- 47 minutes, 4/9/2013- 41 minutes, 4/10/2013- 48 minutes, 4/12/2013- 45 minutes
(bleep) ing disgusting, when looking back at it. What a shame. If I coached, I wouldn't do that to a 24 year old player. Let alone a 34 year old player in his 16th year in the league. And it wasn't even the playoffs. Those were regular season minute totals. |
If Nash's leg didn't break and Pau didn't start 'pick and choosing' when he had vertigo and when he didn't. Kobe wouldn't have had to do all that.
In essence the game we blew against the Wizards was a catalyst cause we could have had a solid cushion to sit on and not have to worry about forcing ourselves to make the 8th seed.
All and all, Lillard breaking Nash's leg and Isaiah Thomas running full speed into Nash intentionally on a dirty play on the first game all 4 of them played together was the start of the downfall.
People don't remember how much hell that was. And Nash's broken leg pretty much was the catalyst, then he did what he did for us basically on one leg after that. He went on a 17 out of 20 game stretch where he averaged 17/5 when he was switched to the off-ball role. which was Mike Brown's initial plan mind you.
Anyway, if the Lakers never had those injuries, and heck even with the injuries we won 70% of our games to close the season with a one legged Nash, a one armed Dwight, and a not able to run Pau Gasol.
If Kobe didn't go down we may have made a deep run in the West, especially with how Kobe was playing. Considering how close those first two games vs San Antonio were and we didn't even have Kobe, it's not out of the question.
They call it a failure but always neglect the injuries, but if it's LeBron you'd hear nothing BUT the injuries.
if Kyrie broke his leg in the 2nd game of the season and Love was constantly hurt and LeBron carried the Cavs into the playoffs like Kobe had to they'd be making a case why an 8th seeded team needed to have MVP cause of what he fought through. Kobe got none of that recognition that season. |
Is the Washington game the one where Kobe refused to guard Ariza and let him burn us for, like, 8 3s? Can't blame him considering he was 34 and had a ridiculous offensive burden, but yeesh his defense was bad that season. That game was probably the crown moment of poor defense. |
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pjiddy
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Posts: 29074
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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As time goes on, the assumption that the Lakers would have won a title, let alone many more titles with Kobe/Dwight/CP3 looks more and more like just that. Because CP3 was here, Kobe would've respected Dwight? Dwight wouldn't have been a (bleep)? Kobe couldn't play off-ball with Nash, but he would've with CP3? Or Would CP3 spot up in the corner? We still would've had no bench and a heavy minute load on 3 guys who all had injury problems that year.
Last edited by pjiddy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47581
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| LAkers 4 Life wrote: | | Of course the veto was the impetus for their fall. The Lakers had a specific plan in mind following the lockout and were executing it. When it was rescinded because of bogus reasons, they scrambled and were stuck trying to figure out a new plan on the fly and tried to make the best out of it before they had to pay the price. |
I have been hard on Mitch (really) and still I will defend him on the fact that he had executed the trades to have Chris Paul, Kobe, Dwight Howard all on the same team together until the unprecedented and in my opinion drastic overstepping of his authority in what David Stern did.
It simply was against everything sports was all about, no doubt the Lakers got screwed there and have paid dearly.
That said, since that day I would argue the Lakers have failed to adapt to the circumstances, playing field and challenges of the current CBA. That has to change...either with this current management team or a new one.
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10812
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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when we didn't trade Bynum for Melo
Gasol/Odom/Melo/Kobe/Fish
I still drool at what that lineup could have been |
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Cap's Elbow
Starting Rotation
Joined: 09 Feb 2014
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| The Melo for Bynum deal was never offered. Most likely it was a made up story by Bousard. |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30704
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | The Dallas series should have been the soft rebuild moment. Instead they kept trying and trying and eventually it bit them in the ass. That's not on Jim Buss either. |
Nash/Howard seemed fine on paper. But clearly our plan was to have CP3/Howard, which is a better upgrade.
I commend them for picking themselves off the mat to get that deal, but it just didn't work. Stuff happens and we paid (and are still paying for probably another year) for it.
But I do think better times are up ahead. |
I thought it was pretty clear the league was changing, as it turned out rapidly changing, but they pretty decided to stick their heads in the sand, go for bandaids, and play a style that wasn't realistically winnable anymore. If the Dallas series wasn't a good enough indication of that, the OKC series should have been proof positive. Instead they kept believing. |
How was going for a top 10 PG (albeit a bit older) and the then-#1 center a "bandaid?"
Sure, it was a bad chemistry experiment, but not everyone foresaw Dwight imploding like he did. |
I'd rather not answer that. It's water under the bridge. No point in regurgitating it. |
I'd personally love to see the avalanche of information available at the time that made it clear that 1 year removed from a championship, reloading with a 12/11 pg that shot 54%/39% and a multiple dpoy Center was the wrong way to go about it. |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | LAkers 4 Life wrote: | | Of course the veto was the impetus for their fall. The Lakers had a specific plan in mind following the lockout and were executing it. When it was rescinded because of bogus reasons, they scrambled and were stuck trying to figure out a new plan on the fly and tried to make the best out of it before they had to pay the price. |
That said, since that day I would argue the Lakers have failed to adapt to the circumstances, playing field and challenges of the current CBA. That has to change...either with this current management team or a new one. |
Agree 100%. Skipping quality but non-flashy starters the previous few offseasons while waiting for superstars to tell us no led us to this past offseason where we had to overpay for, uh, quality but non-flashy starters since they could be playing for much better teams in key years of their careers.
Would we have had the draft picks that we have today? Hard to say, but it feels like we lucked into them from a team-building standpoint (outside of hiring Byron). But the Celtics also found a quick way to rebuild by being smart about the market - trading guys who weren't going to stick around (Pau) for picks and signing guys like Isaiah Thomas (who we didn't pursue and he was interested). |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | As time goes on, the assumption that the Lakers would have won a title, let alone many more titles with Kobe/Dwight/CP3 looks more and more like just that. Because CP3 was here, Kobe would've respected Dwight? Dwight wouldn't have been a (bleep)? Kobe couldn't play off-ball with Nash, but he would've with CP3? Or Would CP3 spot up in the corner? We still would've had no bench and a heavy minute load on 3 guys who all had injury problems that year. |
Not to mention, wouldn't we be delaying the inevitable anyway? We'd have an aging and expensive Chris Paul on the roster, and who knows what other veteran and now older player we would have had to acquire to get the job done.
When you have significant resources tied up in a small number of elite players, eventually, the cycle of life happens and you have to start over. The only way that would have been avoidable is to not have significant resources tied up in a small number of elite players a la San Antonio who is an exception, not a rule. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Cap's Elbow wrote: | | The Melo for Bynum deal was never offered. Most likely it was a made up story by Bousard. |
Most likely something Broussard fabricated or ESPN fabricated.
Because if the offer on the table was Bynum for Carmelo and us keeping Gasol... we're likely going to do that lol.
Essentially makes our lineup
Derek Fisher
Kobe Bryant
Ron Artest
Carmelo Anthony
Pau Gasol
I think we'd have been happy to rock with that for a while. |
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ringfinger
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Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Cap's Elbow wrote: | | The Melo for Bynum deal was never offered. Most likely it was a made up story by Bousard. |
Most likely something Broussard fabricated or ESPN fabricated.
Because if the offer on the table was Bynum for Carmelo and us keeping Gasol... we're likely going to do that lol.
Essentially makes our lineup
Derek Fisher
Kobe Bryant
Ron Artest
Carmelo Anthony
Pau Gasol
I think we'd have been happy to rock with that for a while. |
And yet, we'd be having the same discussion today about where did it all fall apart?
It fell apart the moment we decided we needed to go younger. But that was a necessity. |
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AshesToAshes
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Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 4837
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | As time goes on, the assumption that the Lakers would have won a title, let alone many more titles with Kobe/Dwight/CP3 looks more and more like just that. Because CP3 was here, Kobe would've respected Dwight? Dwight wouldn't have been a (bleep)? Kobe couldn't play off-ball with Nash, but he would've with CP3? Or Would CP3 spot up in the corner? We still would've had no bench and a heavy minute load on 3 guys who all had injury problems that year. |
Not to mention, wouldn't we be delaying the inevitable anyway? We'd have an aging and expensive Chris Paul on the roster, and who knows what other veteran and now older player we would have had to acquire to get the job done.
When you have significant resources tied up in a small number of elite players, eventually, the cycle of life happens and you have to start over. The only way that would have been avoidable is to not have significant resources tied up in a small number of elite players a la San Antonio who is an exception, not a rule. |
i'd be inclined to disagree. The original plan would have worked.
with both kobe and cp3; DH would be 1c and might not have gone full madonna mode and push his ultra-post-big eyes set on being alpha-male mentality.
Also would lessen the kobe/DH 2man game because what we needed at that time was to get the ball out of kobe's busted hands.
Also with those 3 (and no injuries) we're recruiting good role players and making playoff runs; kobe dragged that team into the playoffs himself already so this is far from a "stretch". that's a roster that might enjoy DH antics; the franchise would have been in cp3's hands. that drastically changes the outlook/judgement of DH.
for example.. MWP was entertaining. That wouldn't be the case if he was perceived as our next franchise player.
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ringfinger
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Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| AshesToAshes wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | As time goes on, the assumption that the Lakers would have won a title, let alone many more titles with Kobe/Dwight/CP3 looks more and more like just that. Because CP3 was here, Kobe would've respected Dwight? Dwight wouldn't have been a (bleep)? Kobe couldn't play off-ball with Nash, but he would've with CP3? Or Would CP3 spot up in the corner? We still would've had no bench and a heavy minute load on 3 guys who all had injury problems that year. |
Not to mention, wouldn't we be delaying the inevitable anyway? We'd have an aging and expensive Chris Paul on the roster, and who knows what other veteran and now older player we would have had to acquire to get the job done.
When you have significant resources tied up in a small number of elite players, eventually, the cycle of life happens and you have to start over. The only way that would have been avoidable is to not have significant resources tied up in a small number of elite players a la San Antonio who is an exception, not a rule. |
i'd be inclined to disagree. The original plan would have worked.
with both kobe and cp3; DH would be 1c and might not have gone full madonna mode and push his ultra-post-big eyes set on being alpha-male mentality.
Also would lessen the kobe/DH 2man game because what we needed at that time was to get the ball out of kobe's busted hands.
Also with those 3 (and no injuries) we're recruiting good role players and making playoff runs; kobe dragged that team into the playoffs himself already so this is far from a "stretch". that's a roster that might enjoy DH antics; the franchise would have been in cp3's hands. that drastically changes the outlook/judgement of DH.
for example.. MWP was entertaining. That wouldn't be the case if he was perceived as our next franchise player. |
I'm saying today. With Kobe retired, we'd have aging players on our roster, no young assets, etc. So we'd be having the same conversation at one point or another. |
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Ziggy
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12717
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | As time goes on, the assumption that the Lakers would have won a title, let alone many more titles with Kobe/Dwight/CP3 looks more and more like just that. Because CP3 was here, Kobe would've respected Dwight? Dwight wouldn't have been a (bleep)? Kobe couldn't play off-ball with Nash, but he would've with CP3? Or Would CP3 spot up in the corner? We still would've had no bench and a heavy minute load on 3 guys who all had injury problems that year. |
Kobe couldn't play off-ball with Nash because Nash needed screens to create anything at that point in his career. And as we know, Dwight preferred posting up over setting screens.
CP3 is a completely different animal. He can split double teams and get inside the paint on his own. Kobe wouldn't have had to put the entire team on his shoulders.
Dwight is a knucklehead and there's no way of predicting how people like that will react. One thing I know for sure is he would've gotten a lot more lobs with CP3.
I've always maintained that the veto was the beginning of the end. We lost CP3, Pau and Lamar all on the same day. |
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Hector the Pup
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 35946
Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| I always wanted a thread that threw just about every dead horse possible into one pile. |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26386
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Cap's Elbow wrote: | | The Melo for Bynum deal was never offered. Most likely it was a made up story by Bousard. |
Most likely something Broussard fabricated or ESPN fabricated.
Because if the offer on the table was Bynum for Carmelo and us keeping Gasol... we're likely going to do that lol.
Essentially makes our lineup
Derek Fisher
Kobe Bryant
Ron Artest
Carmelo Anthony
Pau Gasol
I think we'd have been happy to rock with that for a while. |
And yet, we'd be having the same discussion today about where did it all fall apart?
It fell apart the moment we decided we needed to go younger. But that was a necessity. |
Probably. But the question becomes if we'd get another ring or not in that process. Because assume we did that deal for Carmelo, and then the next off-season made the Nash/D12 deal but instead moved Gasol.
Suddenly the discussion would be a bit different.
Suddenly we'd have a lineup of
Nash
Kobe
Artest
Carmelo
Dwight
And then suddenly Kobe has a legitimate 2nd scoring option next to him, and even with Nash's injury has someone to take the load off him offensively, and then possibly doesn't go down with injury and we're possibly a solid top 3-4 team in the West.
But we'd be hitting the restart button about now or last year, because Kobe may be more likely to retire sooner with his 6th if a 7th doesn't seem possible.
So we'd likely be looking at having just Carmelo this year, with Kobe retiring and Dwight likely leaving a year earlier. So we'd be looking at Josh Jackson this year, instead of looking at Russell, Randle, Ingram, the past years as our core.
We likely still have Clarkson and Larry Nance Jr. But we no longer have Russell, Ingram or Randle. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144472
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | I always wanted a thread that threw just about every dead horse possible into one pile. |
I am still trying to figure out what "fell apart". I guess I am one of the few who doesn't expect the team to compete for a title for 25 straight years.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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