I think that retiring both numbers is a bad idea and more like something the Celtics would do than something the Lakers would do. Let him decide one and retire it, put the other into circulation. Kobe was great but no greater than Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. You don't change what you do just because a player has a whim to change numbers during his career.
I think that retiring both numbers is a bad idea and more like something the Celtics would do than something the Lakers would do. Let him decide one and retire it, put the other into circulation. Kobe was great but no greater than Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. You don't change what you do just because a player has a whim to change numbers during his career.
a little different perspective, you could argue that MJ doesn't deserve to retire his #45 because the career of his #45 doesn't warrant jersey number retirement. Kobe's both #8 and #24 career (separately) arguably warrant it. both jerseys are multi-champions, multi all-stars, multi all-NBA, lead league in scoring. He has 10 seasons of each to judge from
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52660 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:04 am Post subject:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I think that retiring both numbers is a bad idea and more like something the Celtics would do than something the Lakers would do. Let him decide one and retire it, put the other into circulation. Kobe was great but no greater than Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. You don't change what you do just because a player has a whim to change numbers during his career.
It has nothing to do with saying Kobe is greater. It's just recognizing his great level of play in both numbers. And none of those guys played in two different numbers, so who is to say what the Lakers would have done if they had. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
I think that retiring both numbers is a bad idea and more like something the Celtics would do than something the Lakers would do. Let him decide one and retire it, put the other into circulation. Kobe was great but no greater than Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. You don't change what you do just because a player has a whim to change numbers during his career.
It has nothing to do with saying Kobe is greater. It's just recognizing his great level of play in both numbers. And none of those guys played in two different numbers, so who is to say what the Lakers would have done if they had.
No player dominated the way Kobe did as 8 and 24 for the same team for as long of a period either. _________________ Music is my medicine
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:53 am Post subject:
governator wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I think that retiring both numbers is a bad idea and more like something the Celtics would do than something the Lakers would do. Let him decide one and retire it, put the other into circulation. Kobe was great but no greater than Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. You don't change what you do just because a player has a whim to change numbers during his career.
a little different perspective, you could argue that MJ doesn't deserve to retire his #45 because the career of his #45 doesn't warrant jersey number retirement. Kobe's both #8 and #24 career (separately) arguably warrant it. both jerseys are multi-champions, multi all-stars, multi all-NBA, lead league in scoring. He has 10 seasons of each to judge from
I disagree, the Lakers shouldn't fall for Celtic tricks and retire every jersey they have. One Kobe, one jersey retired. Don't get cute. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:54 am Post subject:
DaMuleRules wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I think that retiring both numbers is a bad idea and more like something the Celtics would do than something the Lakers would do. Let him decide one and retire it, put the other into circulation. Kobe was great but no greater than Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. You don't change what you do just because a player has a whim to change numbers during his career.
It has nothing to do with saying Kobe is greater. It's just recognizing his great level of play in both numbers. And none of those guys played in two different numbers, so who is to say what the Lakers would have done if they had.
So if Shaq had changed numbers every season we should retire all of them? That isn't very Laker like, I thought we had more class than that. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
I think that retiring both numbers is a bad idea and more like something the Celtics would do than something the Lakers would do. Let him decide one and retire it, put the other into circulation. Kobe was great but no greater than Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. You don't change what you do just because a player has a whim to change numbers during his career.
a little different perspective, you could argue that MJ doesn't deserve to retire his #45 because the career of his #45 doesn't warrant jersey number retirement. Kobe's both #8 and #24 career (separately) arguably warrant it. both jerseys are multi-champions, multi all-stars, multi all-NBA, lead league in scoring. He has 10 seasons of each to judge from
I disagree, the Lakers shouldn't fall for Celtic tricks and retire every jersey they have. One Kobe, one jersey retired. Don't get cute.
not sure what you meant by celtics trick but back to my point of argument that each of Kobe's career (while wearing #8 and #24) separately are worthy of hall of fame consideration. You can argue/disagree with this point if you want but this has nothing to do with Celtics.
Kobe #8:
10 seasons
3 rings in 4 finals
multi top 5 MVP consideration
multi all-stars
multi all NBA
lead league in scoring
score about 16000+
Kobe#24
10 seasons
2 rings in 3 finals
multi NBA finals MVP
MVP
multi top 5 MVP consideration
multi all-stars
multi all NBA
lead league in scoring
score about 16000+
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:35 am Post subject:
governator wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
governator wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I think that retiring both numbers is a bad idea and more like something the Celtics would do than something the Lakers would do. Let him decide one and retire it, put the other into circulation. Kobe was great but no greater than Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. You don't change what you do just because a player has a whim to change numbers during his career.
a little different perspective, you could argue that MJ doesn't deserve to retire his #45 because the career of his #45 doesn't warrant jersey number retirement. Kobe's both #8 and #24 career (separately) arguably warrant it. both jerseys are multi-champions, multi all-stars, multi all-NBA, lead league in scoring. He has 10 seasons of each to judge from
I disagree, the Lakers shouldn't fall for Celtic tricks and retire every jersey they have. One Kobe, one jersey retired. Don't get cute.
not sure what you meant by celtics trick but back to my point of argument that each of Kobe's career (while wearing #8 and #24) separately are worthy of hall of fame consideration. You can argue/disagree with this point if you want but this has nothing to do with Celtics.
Kobe #8:
10 seasons
3 rings in 4 finals
multi top 5 MVP consideration
multi all-stars
multi all NBA
lead league in scoring
score about 16000+
Kobe#24
10 seasons
2 rings in 3 finals
multi NBA finals MVP
MVP
multi top 5 MVP consideration
multi all-stars
multi all NBA
lead league in scoring
score about 16000+
That's my argument
It is a parlor trick argument. In reality, Kobe played one career, he should have one number retired. He is not more special than Magic, Karee, Shaq or any other great whose numbers have been retired, they shouldn't treat him any differently. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
I think that retiring both numbers is a bad idea and more like something the Celtics would do than something the Lakers would do. Let him decide one and retire it, put the other into circulation. Kobe was great but no greater than Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. You don't change what you do just because a player has a whim to change numbers during his career.
a little different perspective, you could argue that MJ doesn't deserve to retire his #45 because the career of his #45 doesn't warrant jersey number retirement. Kobe's both #8 and #24 career (separately) arguably warrant it. both jerseys are multi-champions, multi all-stars, multi all-NBA, lead league in scoring. He has 10 seasons of each to judge from
I disagree, the Lakers shouldn't fall for Celtic tricks and retire every jersey they have. One Kobe, one jersey retired. Don't get cute.
not sure what you meant by celtics trick but back to my point of argument that each of Kobe's career (while wearing #8 and #24) separately are worthy of hall of fame consideration. You can argue/disagree with this point if you want but this has nothing to do with Celtics.
Kobe #8:
10 seasons
3 rings in 4 finals
multi top 5 MVP consideration
multi all-stars
multi all NBA
lead league in scoring
score about 16000+
Kobe#24
10 seasons
2 rings in 3 finals
multi NBA finals MVP
MVP
multi top 5 MVP consideration
multi all-stars
multi all NBA
lead league in scoring
score about 16000+
That's my argument
It is a parlor trick argument. In reality, Kobe played one career, he should have one number retired. He is not more special than Magic, Karee, Shaq or any other great whose numbers have been retired, they shouldn't treat him any differently.
I agree and disagree.
In this case, Kobe is different --he had two numbers, which is highly unusual.
I have no trouble retiring them both. However, I wouldn't hang two jerseys for Kobe in the rafters -- I would put both numbers on the same jersey or alternate them.
I think that retiring both numbers is a bad idea and more like something the Celtics would do than something the Lakers would do. Let him decide one and retire it, put the other into circulation. Kobe was great but no greater than Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. You don't change what you do just because a player has a whim to change numbers during his career.
a little different perspective, you could argue that MJ doesn't deserve to retire his #45 because the career of his #45 doesn't warrant jersey number retirement. Kobe's both #8 and #24 career (separately) arguably warrant it. both jerseys are multi-champions, multi all-stars, multi all-NBA, lead league in scoring. He has 10 seasons of each to judge from
I disagree, the Lakers shouldn't fall for Celtic tricks and retire every jersey they have. One Kobe, one jersey retired. Don't get cute.
not sure what you meant by celtics trick but back to my point of argument that each of Kobe's career (while wearing #8 and #24) separately are worthy of hall of fame consideration. You can argue/disagree with this point if you want but this has nothing to do with Celtics.
Kobe #8:
10 seasons
3 rings in 4 finals
multi top 5 MVP consideration
multi all-stars
multi all NBA
lead league in scoring
score about 16000+
Kobe#24
10 seasons
2 rings in 3 finals
multi NBA finals MVP
MVP
multi top 5 MVP consideration
multi all-stars
multi all NBA
lead league in scoring
score about 16000+
That's my argument
It is a parlor trick argument. In reality, Kobe played one career, he should have one number retired. He is not more special than Magic, Karee, Shaq or any other great whose numbers have been retired, they shouldn't treat him any differently.
parlor trick argument?
This has never been done before, a player with 2 x 10 years of HOF worthy career. Kobe is the first. This is why we are having an argument
I think that retiring both numbers is a bad idea and more like something the Celtics would do than something the Lakers would do. Let him decide one and retire it, put the other into circulation. Kobe was great but no greater than Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. You don't change what you do just because a player has a whim to change numbers during his career.
a little different perspective, you could argue that MJ doesn't deserve to retire his #45 because the career of his #45 doesn't warrant jersey number retirement. Kobe's both #8 and #24 career (separately) arguably warrant it. both jerseys are multi-champions, multi all-stars, multi all-NBA, lead league in scoring. He has 10 seasons of each to judge from
I disagree, the Lakers shouldn't fall for Celtic tricks and retire every jersey they have. One Kobe, one jersey retired. Don't get cute.
not sure what you meant by celtics trick but back to my point of argument that each of Kobe's career (while wearing #8 and #24) separately are worthy of hall of fame consideration. You can argue/disagree with this point if you want but this has nothing to do with Celtics.
Kobe #8:
10 seasons
3 rings in 4 finals
multi top 5 MVP consideration
multi all-stars
multi all NBA
lead league in scoring
score about 16000+
Kobe#24
10 seasons
2 rings in 3 finals
multi NBA finals MVP
MVP
multi top 5 MVP consideration
multi all-stars
multi all NBA
lead league in scoring
score about 16000+
That's my argument
It is a parlor trick argument. In reality, Kobe played one career, he should have one number retired. He is not more special than Magic, Karee, Shaq or any other great whose numbers have been retired, they shouldn't treat him any differently.
parlor trick argument?
This has never been done before, a player with 2 x 10 years of HOF worthy career. Kobe is the first. This is why we are having an argument
it's a weird case. Lots of guys have had their numbers retired by two teams.
Dr. J and Earl Monroe had two different numbers retired by two different teams they played for.
But I don't know of another great player who played for one team and changed his number.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52660 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:19 pm Post subject:
venturalakersfan wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I think that retiring both numbers is a bad idea and more like something the Celtics would do than something the Lakers would do. Let him decide one and retire it, put the other into circulation. Kobe was great but no greater than Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. You don't change what you do just because a player has a whim to change numbers during his career.
It has nothing to do with saying Kobe is greater. It's just recognizing his great level of play in both numbers. And none of those guys played in two different numbers, so who is to say what the Lakers would have done if they had.
So if Shaq had changed numbers every season we should retire all of them? That isn't very Laker like, I thought we had more class than that.
Of course not, because no one would associate any particular number with Shaq. There's a huge difference between someone having a different number every year and someone having two distinct phases of his career while wearing two immediately recognizable numbers. When they said 8/24 would be Kobe day, it didn't need to be explained to anyone who knows even a little about the Lakers. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
I think that retiring both numbers is a bad idea and more like something the Celtics would do than something the Lakers would do. Let him decide one and retire it, put the other into circulation. Kobe was great but no greater than Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. You don't change what you do just because a player has a whim to change numbers during his career.
It has nothing to do with saying Kobe is greater. It's just recognizing his great level of play in both numbers. And none of those guys played in two different numbers, so who is to say what the Lakers would have done if they had.
So if Shaq had changed numbers every season we should retire all of them? That isn't very Laker like, I thought we had more class than that.
Your reasoning is egregious. It's a false dichotomy to compare this "dilemma" of Kobe's two numbers with the other Laker greats and their numbers. None of them played with two numbers, so retiring both #8 and #24 wouldn't imply that Kobe is superior to any of them (though who would seriously argue that he wasn't greater than Jamaal Wilkes?). Both numbers will be retired because he wore both. You'd have a valid point if they were talking about hanging #8 twice or #24 twice, but they're not. A decent case could even be made that the Lakers should "unretire" every single number unless they're willing to throw George Mikan's up there too because, as of today, his is not. Isn't that "unfair"? And before someone says that's different because the Lakers played in Minnesota back then, that doesn't change anything. It's still the Laker franchise, regardless of what city they were in. If it doesn't matter then why come the championships they won in Minnesota are credited to the Lakers instead of the Timberwolves?
Technically, no player can change their number "every" year because the NBA has a rule that restricts how often a player can do it (IIRC it's every three years).
Also, anyone who's of the 'He should only have one number retired' opinion, you shoot yourself in the foot by saying that the other number could be "unofficially" retired because no player would want to take it, whatever number it is. If that's the case then why not just retire it then since no player would wear it anyway?
It's a little surprising to me that there's even a debate about this subject. It's always been pretty obvious to me for years that they would end up retiring both. I'd be shocked if they didn't. I don't think any of the other greats would mind, either. Magic, for one, has been proud to call Kobe the greatest Laker ever. If his opinion was sought, I'd bet the farm and the kids that he'd have one of the loudest voices in support of both numbers being retired. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:27 pm Post subject:
Judah wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I think that retiring both numbers is a bad idea and more like something the Celtics would do than something the Lakers would do. Let him decide one and retire it, put the other into circulation. Kobe was great but no greater than Magic, Kareem and other Laker greats. You don't change what you do just because a player has a whim to change numbers during his career.
It has nothing to do with saying Kobe is greater. It's just recognizing his great level of play in both numbers. And none of those guys played in two different numbers, so who is to say what the Lakers would have done if they had.
So if Shaq had changed numbers every season we should retire all of them? That isn't very Laker like, I thought we had more class than that.
Your reasoning is egregious. It's a false dichotomy to compare this "dilemma" of Kobe's two numbers with the other Laker greats and their numbers. None of them played with two numbers, so retiring both #8 and #24 wouldn't imply that Kobe is superior to any of them (though who would seriously argue that he wasn't greater than Jamaal Wilkes?). Both numbers will be retired because he wore both. You'd have a valid point if they were talking about hanging #8 twice or #24 twice, but they're not. A decent case could even be made that the Lakers should "unretire" every single number unless they're willing to throw George Mikan's up there too because, as of today, his is not. Isn't that "unfair"? And before someone says that's different because the Lakers played in Minnesota back then, that doesn't change anything. It's still the Laker franchise, regardless of what city they were in. If it doesn't matter then why come the championships they won in Minnesota are credited to the Lakers instead of the Timberwolves?
Technically, no player can change their number "every" year because the NBA has a rule that restricts how often a player can do it (IIRC it's every three years).
Also, anyone who's of the 'He should only have one number retired' opinion, you shoot yourself in the foot by saying that the other number could be "unofficially" retired because no player would want to take it, whatever number it is. If that's the case then why not just retire it then since no player would wear it anyway?
It's a little surprising to me that there's even a debate about this subject. It's always been pretty obvious to me for years that they would end up retiring both. I'd be shocked if they didn't. I don't think any of the other greats would mind, either. Magic, for one, has been proud to call Kobe the greatest Laker ever. If his opinion was sought, I'd bet the farm and the kids that he'd have one of the loudest voices in support of both numbers being retired.
The one guy who I think might publicly make a stink about it is Kareem.
Personally, I would retire them both (of course I think Cooper should have his number retired). It's just wall decoration, and to the fans there's not a more popular living Laker right now than Kobe so what's the big deal.
Last edited by greenfrog on Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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