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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
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 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | It's such a contagious mentality. Oh. Just one more year. Right. |
It can be true whenever you put your foot down and make it true, though. And this year is a logical, last year of tanking point. |
How about next year. If we're not a playoff contender should we tank the last 15-20 games too?
The last thing a top FA wants to see is "oh hey we just crapped the last 20 games to get another 19 year old." |
I think it's logical for this to be the last tanking year, because next year - even a 6th or 7th pick (which we probably won't be better than), is valuable enough to trade for a solid player. I don't want to keep any more young draftees, Free Agents don't want to play with them --- so, trade them and make the Free Agent's happy and that's a good situation. |
And if you epically tank the last 15-20 games and don't get a top 3 pick? |
next year you keep the pick without tanking, it's a no lose situation kind of. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | It's such a contagious mentality. Oh. Just one more year. Right. |
It can be true whenever you put your foot down and make it true, though. And this year is a logical, last year of tanking point. |
How about next year. If we're not a playoff contender should we tank the last 15-20 games too?
The last thing a top FA wants to see is "oh hey we just crapped the last 20 games to get another 19 year old." |
I think it's logical for this to be the last tanking year, because next year - even a 6th or 7th pick (which we probably won't be better than), is valuable enough to trade for a solid player. I don't want to keep any more young draftees, Free Agents don't want to play with them --- so, trade them and make the Free Agent's happy and that's a good situation. |
And if you epically tank the last 15-20 games and don't get a top 3 pick? |
next year you keep the pick without tanking, it's a no lose situation kind of. |
Not really.
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Judah
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | An LG version of reddit/showerthoughts
What if a team ,like us next year - just kept it super real about tanking the last 15 games of the season. Then Free Agents don't mind that your record was trash, because they know that when you were trying to win - you were better. We would have to be very strong footed and even proud in our PR stance. "Yea we tanked the last 15 games, because we care that much about moving the franchise forward, we will do whatever it takes to become a contender. We strongly encourage Free Agents to look at our first 70 games of the season and judge us off that; truth is, we were impressive."
I think we could spin it well enough to not have Free Agents judge us for it - hell, maybe they'd even respect us for it.
I think the "too proud to tank" thing is bullcrap machismo - what is the only thing detracting a team from tanking - the PR hit? Or a "losing culture in a young locker room" angle? Those are both dynamics that can be negated! The latter dynamic could be nullified by a coach drilling/reinforcing to the players every day that "we're better than our record. we will be one of the best teams in the league. we're still on the cusp of greatness" , a winning attitude can still be implanted. |
On top of 3 other years of tanking? No. |
You mean - the young players would be discouraged? Well, first off, 30 wins doesn't really inject any sort of a winning attitude/environment in itself.
At the end of the day, tanking can be viewed as the ultimate "do whatever it takes to win" attitude. And I think you can impart that view and thinking into the players, even if it's kind of a dirty feeling way of doing it.
Mitch: guys, we are doing whatever it takes to bring this franchise back to greatness.
DLo: Damn, that's a hungry mentality. I should be that hungry for us too.
eh? maybe? maybe.
And promise it's the last year of tanking (because even if we lose our pick this year, that means we keep it next year. We wouldn't have to tank next year, we can just suck, get a valuable enough top 6 pick, and trade it for a solid player. |
So you think 13 or 14 wins will do the trick then?
_________________
“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | It's such a contagious mentality. Oh. Just one more year. Right. |
It can be true whenever you put your foot down and make it true, though. And this year is a logical, last year of tanking point. |
How about next year. If we're not a playoff contender should we tank the last 15-20 games too?
The last thing a top FA wants to see is "oh hey we just crapped the last 20 games to get another 19 year old." |
I think it's logical for this to be the last tanking year, because next year - even a 6th or 7th pick (which we probably won't be better than), is valuable enough to trade for a solid player. I don't want to keep any more young draftees, Free Agents don't want to play with them --- so, trade them and make the Free Agent's happy and that's a good situation. |
And if you epically tank the last 15-20 games and don't get a top 3 pick? |
next year you keep the pick without tanking, it's a no lose situation kind of. |
Not really. |
lol how? you put the one blatant tank year behind you.. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | An LG version of reddit/showerthoughts
What if a team ,like us next year - just kept it super real about tanking the last 15 games of the season. Then Free Agents don't mind that your record was trash, because they know that when you were trying to win - you were better. We would have to be very strong footed and even proud in our PR stance. "Yea we tanked the last 15 games, because we care that much about moving the franchise forward, we will do whatever it takes to become a contender. We strongly encourage Free Agents to look at our first 70 games of the season and judge us off that; truth is, we were impressive."
I think we could spin it well enough to not have Free Agents judge us for it - hell, maybe they'd even respect us for it.
I think the "too proud to tank" thing is bullcrap machismo - what is the only thing detracting a team from tanking - the PR hit? Or a "losing culture in a young locker room" angle? Those are both dynamics that can be negated! The latter dynamic could be nullified by a coach drilling/reinforcing to the players every day that "we're better than our record. we will be one of the best teams in the league. we're still on the cusp of greatness" , a winning attitude can still be implanted. |
I doubt any top 10 FA would have the slightest interest in signing with us. And if we tell the world we are tanking and then lose our pick we look like idiots, further poisoning relationships with potential top FAs. The best course of action is to win all you can win, develop the young players, and soon winning will attract FAs.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | It's such a contagious mentality. Oh. Just one more year. Right. |
It can be true whenever you put your foot down and make it true, though. And this year is a logical, last year of tanking point. |
How about next year. If we're not a playoff contender should we tank the last 15-20 games too?
The last thing a top FA wants to see is "oh hey we just crapped the last 20 games to get another 19 year old." |
I think it's logical for this to be the last tanking year, because next year - even a 6th or 7th pick (which we probably won't be better than), is valuable enough to trade for a solid player. I don't want to keep any more young draftees, Free Agents don't want to play with them --- so, trade them and make the Free Agent's happy and that's a good situation. |
And if you epically tank the last 15-20 games and don't get a top 3 pick? |
next year you keep the pick without tanking, it's a no lose situation kind of. |
Not really. |
lol how? you put the one blatant tank year behind you.. |
The 2018 pick is based on luck. We get that or not regardless of whether we tank. You seem to believe tanking the final 15 games dramatically alters our 2017 luck. Top 3 protection sucks because there is literally no way that it's guaranteed. Worst record only guarantees a 4th pick.
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Judah
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | An LG version of reddit/showerthoughts
What if a team ,like us next year - just kept it super real about tanking the last 15 games of the season. Then Free Agents don't mind that your record was trash, because they know that when you were trying to win - you were better. We would have to be very strong footed and even proud in our PR stance. "Yea we tanked the last 15 games, because we care that much about moving the franchise forward, we will do whatever it takes to become a contender. We strongly encourage Free Agents to look at our first 70 games of the season and judge us off that; truth is, we were impressive."
I think we could spin it well enough to not have Free Agents judge us for it - hell, maybe they'd even respect us for it.
I think the "too proud to tank" thing is bullcrap machismo - what is the only thing detracting a team from tanking - the PR hit? Or a "losing culture in a young locker room" angle? Those are both dynamics that can be negated! The latter dynamic could be nullified by a coach drilling/reinforcing to the players every day that "we're better than our record. we will be one of the best teams in the league. we're still on the cusp of greatness" , a winning attitude can still be implanted. |
I doubt any top 10 FA would have the slightest interest in signing with us. And if we tell the world we are tanking and then lose our pick we look like idiots, further poisoning relationships with potential top FAs. The best course of action is to win all you can win, develop the young players, and soon winning will attract FAs. |
 
_________________
“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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greenfrog
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I think two consecutive seasons of sizable improvement and we're out of the 1st or 2nd tier FA doghouse. Free agency or trades has always been the preferred method of a return to contention for this org. They've just never been this bad for this long. |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17674
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | An LG version of reddit/showerthoughts
What if a team ,like us next year - just kept it super real about tanking the last 15 games of the season. Then Free Agents don't mind that your record was trash, because they know that when you were trying to win - you were better. We would have to be very strong footed and even proud in our PR stance. "Yea we tanked the last 15 games, because we care that much about moving the franchise forward, we will do whatever it takes to become a contender. We strongly encourage Free Agents to look at our first 70 games of the season and judge us off that; truth is, we were impressive."
I think we could spin it well enough to not have Free Agents judge us for it - hell, maybe they'd even respect us for it.
I think the "too proud to tank" thing is bullcrap machismo - what is the only thing detracting a team from tanking - the PR hit? Or a "losing culture in a young locker room" angle? Those are both dynamics that can be negated! The latter dynamic could be nullified by a coach drilling/reinforcing to the players every day that "we're better than our record. we will be one of the best teams in the league. we're still on the cusp of greatness" , a winning attitude can still be implanted. |
I doubt any top 10 FA would have the slightest interest in signing with us. And if we tell the world we are tanking and then lose our pick we look like idiots, further poisoning relationships with potential top FAs. The best course of action is to win all you can win, develop the young players, and soon winning will attract FAs. |
You can make a good argument we aren't likely to get one of the top 10 free agents in the summer of 2017 regardless.
Steph, KD, Griffin, CP3, Gobert, Hayward, Lowry, Millsap, Wade, Ibaka.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Judah wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | An LG version of reddit/showerthoughts
What if a team ,like us next year - just kept it super real about tanking the last 15 games of the season. Then Free Agents don't mind that your record was trash, because they know that when you were trying to win - you were better. We would have to be very strong footed and even proud in our PR stance. "Yea we tanked the last 15 games, because we care that much about moving the franchise forward, we will do whatever it takes to become a contender. We strongly encourage Free Agents to look at our first 70 games of the season and judge us off that; truth is, we were impressive."
I think we could spin it well enough to not have Free Agents judge us for it - hell, maybe they'd even respect us for it.
I think the "too proud to tank" thing is bullcrap machismo - what is the only thing detracting a team from tanking - the PR hit? Or a "losing culture in a young locker room" angle? Those are both dynamics that can be negated! The latter dynamic could be nullified by a coach drilling/reinforcing to the players every day that "we're better than our record. we will be one of the best teams in the league. we're still on the cusp of greatness" , a winning attitude can still be implanted. |
On top of 3 other years of tanking? No. |
You mean - the young players would be discouraged? Well, first off, 30 wins doesn't really inject any sort of a winning attitude/environment in itself.
At the end of the day, tanking can be viewed as the ultimate "do whatever it takes to win" attitude. And I think you can impart that view and thinking into the players, even if it's kind of a dirty feeling way of doing it.
Mitch: guys, we are doing whatever it takes to bring this franchise back to greatness.
DLo: Damn, that's a hungry mentality. I should be that hungry for us too.
eh? maybe? maybe.
And promise it's the last year of tanking (because even if we lose our pick this year, that means we keep it next year. We wouldn't have to tank next year, we can just suck, get a valuable enough top 6 pick, and trade it for a solid player. |
So you think 13 or 14 wins will do the trick then? |
? Last 15 games = extra 5 losses. Want to be solid for the first ~70 games like I said, to encourage FA's as much as we can |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | It's such a contagious mentality. Oh. Just one more year. Right. |
It can be true whenever you put your foot down and make it true, though. And this year is a logical, last year of tanking point. |
How about next year. If we're not a playoff contender should we tank the last 15-20 games too?
The last thing a top FA wants to see is "oh hey we just crapped the last 20 games to get another 19 year old." |
I think it's logical for this to be the last tanking year, because next year - even a 6th or 7th pick (which we probably won't be better than), is valuable enough to trade for a solid player. I don't want to keep any more young draftees, Free Agents don't want to play with them --- so, trade them and make the Free Agent's happy and that's a good situation. |
And if you epically tank the last 15-20 games and don't get a top 3 pick? |
next year you keep the pick without tanking, it's a no lose situation kind of. |
Not really. |
lol how? you put the one blatant tank year behind you.. |
The 2018 pick is based on luck. We get that or not regardless of whether we tank. You seem to believe tanking the final 15 games dramatically alters our 2017 luck. Top 3 protection sucks because there is literally no way that it's guaranteed. Worst record only guarantees a 4th pick. |
The lotto a game of %s. Im happy with us just having the best shot we can ( ya do your best, even if you don't like the odds, that's life and sports)
I also don't side with VLF in thinking that tanking and not keeping the pick ruins our rep - I actually think a lot of people will respect us for it. Lots of teams in various sports teeter around it - a lot of people might respect us for owning up to it and then not cowering from our convictions.
Of course we won't do it, duh, but it could be done relatively well imo |
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1hu2ren3dui4
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 15403
Location: Oak Park
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Pretty good. Get a top pick. Get another first rounder from Orlando. Move up in season ticket seats. |
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YSong
Star Player
Joined: 16 Sep 2016
Posts: 2329
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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I think Lakers can win 25-30 games.
Shock NBA if they can win 40 games.
I don't think Lakers win fewer than 20 games. |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17876
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | An LG version of reddit/showerthoughts
What if a team ,like us next year - just kept it super real about tanking the last 15 games of the season. Then Free Agents don't mind that your record was trash, because they know that when you were trying to win - you were better. We would have to be very strong footed and even proud in our PR stance. "Yea we tanked the last 15 games, because we care that much about moving the franchise forward, we will do whatever it takes to become a contender. We strongly encourage Free Agents to look at our first 70 games of the season and judge us off that; truth is, we were impressive."
I think we could spin it well enough to not have Free Agents judge us for it - hell, maybe they'd even respect us for it.
I think the "too proud to tank" thing is bullcrap machismo - what is the only thing detracting a team from tanking - the PR hit? Or a "losing culture in a young locker room" angle? Those are both dynamics that can be negated! The latter dynamic could be nullified by a coach drilling/reinforcing to the players every day that "we're better than our record. we will be one of the best teams in the league. we're still on the cusp of greatness" , a winning attitude can still be implanted. |
I see what you're saying, but I still think it'd reflect poorly on the team and hurt our chances for free agents down the line. It's one of those things in theory sounds reasonable, but in reality would probably piss off our young guys, get warped by the media into making the team a laughingstock, and just rub people wrong in general. |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17674
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Just saw another 2 websites projecting the Lakers to finish with the worst record in the entire NBA. Seem like most people outside of the Laker organization aren't very high on our roster or we are being too optimistic. What's surprising to me is seeing people project the Nets to have more wins than the Lakers.
We are a better team than last year for sure. But we also was losing each game by 10 points last year. How big of an improvement can we expect?
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17876
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | Just saw another 2 websites projecting the Lakers to finish with the worst record in the entire NBA. Seem like most people outside of the Laker organization aren't very high on our roster or we are being too optimistic. What's surprising to me is seeing people project the Nets to have more wins than the Lakers.
We are a better team than last year for sure. But we also was losing each game by 10 points last year. How big of an improvement can we expect? |
I think each of the last two years, most sites have been overly optimistic on how many games we win. I don't blame them for now adjusting to that.
Of course, I also don't think anyone outside of LA properly understands how bad Byron was for this team. We're all homers here, but I still think expectations on LG for 28-32 wins are more likely than the 20/ worst record in the league that people are predicting. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:42 am Post subject: |
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We didn't bring in a new coaching staff to entirely change the environment around the team just to tank at the end of the season. If we wanted to do that, we should have just kept Byron for another season. Luke didn't come here to purposely lose games.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17674
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Just saw another 2 websites projecting the Lakers to finish with the worst record in the entire NBA. Seem like most people outside of the Laker organization aren't very high on our roster or we are being too optimistic. What's surprising to me is seeing people project the Nets to have more wins than the Lakers.
We are a better team than last year for sure. But we also was losing each game by 10 points last year. How big of an improvement can we expect? |
I think each of the last two years, most sites have been overly optimistic on how many games we win. I don't blame them for now adjusting to that.
Of course, I also don't think anyone outside of LA properly understands how bad Byron was for this team. We're all homers here, but I still think expectations on LG for 28-32 wins are more likely than the 20/ worst record in the league that people are predicting. |
Agree. Might be closer to 25-30 wins though. I have been saying 27.
Thing is we have a solid team with depth. That's what make this year different to me than most years in the NBA. All 30 teams have solid rosters (outside of the Nets to me)
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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Gomur
Starting Rotation
Joined: 03 Jul 2016
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone else think the NBA owes us one more "basketball reasons" pick?  |
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