Hypothetical trade discussion - Overloaded front court
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Lakerpark
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:35 am    Post subject: Hypothetical trade discussion - Overloaded front court

Hi,

Ok, I'm really bored with this offseason lull right now. I would like to present a discussion of a HYPOTHETICAL trade scenario.

The Lakers future looks bright. If anything, the frontcourt may be getting a little crowded.

So, for this discussion I am assuming the youngsters live up to their potential and become at least pretty good players....not necessarily superstars but at least pieces to a contending team.

Looking into the near future, you have:

Starting Center: Zubac.
Back up centers: Yi JL and Tarik Black.

I like this rotation because hopefully Zubac will fulfill his potential while Yi and Tarik are natural back ups; not good enough to battle for the starting position but not so sucky that they don't deserve prime time playing time (unlike someone like Sacre)

Power Forward: Randle, Nance, Yi JL

I'm a little concerned here because neither Randle nor Nance could establish themselves far above the other. They both have different strengths and weaknesses. They may both provide impact to the game but in different ways. Splitting the time between them (24 minutes) really isn't enough for a bonafide starter/contributing player. I don't really see either as a legit small ball center...(I see that as more like Tarik Black's role) And Yi JL might cut into the PF time off the bench if he proves himself.

During the Bynum/Gasol/Odom era they could allocate the PT easier because Gasol could legitimately play PF and C, Lamar was a big contributor and the bench guys were no big deal. I feel that for the current situation this may not be true for Randle or Nance (until it is proven).

So, to make a long story short, unless Randle or Nance distances themselves from the other in terms of performance, someone may need to be traded....eventually. (That's what accumulating assets is all about)

So with all of these young assets, assuming the current players play to their potential (and do not become garbage like Sacre or Kelly did) HYPOTHETICALLY who would you trade between Randle or Nance? Perhaps they could be packaged with someone like Tarik Black, Nick young, Lou Williams, etc.

What would the missing piece to the Lakers championship puzzle be? (I would like to see them get a tall backcourt pure shooter)

What player in the NBA who is even remotely obtainable would fill this need?

If you don't want to play along with this discussion of a HYPOTHETICAL trade, please skip the hate.

Thanks
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yuurin98
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:44 am    Post subject:

Neither.

But if I have to choose, Randle.

Because he has more value than Nance to other teams, but to me Nance will be an important piece of the puzzle in the Lakers squad.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:57 am    Post subject:

I would probably trade Randle. But, I don't want to, and I don't think we need to. Plus, I'm not even sure who we would trade him for at this point. We've got high potential players at every position now.

And I don't see the point in trading Randle for depth.

So the only way I could see a move happening, that wouldn't be for depth, would be to move TWO young players for some top tier player. For instance, Randle and Clarkson for an SG.

Beyond that, we need to get the young guys developing their skills and chemistry.
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GonzagaAlum
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:30 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
I would probably trade Randle. But, I don't want to, and I don't think we need to. Plus, I'm not even sure who we would trade him for at this point. We've got high potential players at every position now.

And I don't see the point in trading Randle for depth.

So the only way I could see a move happening, that wouldn't be for depth, would be to move TWO young players for some top tier player. For instance, Randle and Clarkson for an SG.

Beyond that, we need to get the young guys developing their skills and chemistry.


Yep Randle and Clarkson together for an upgrade is really the way to go. I don't really see any viable trade option at the moment for those two though.

But Clarkson is the weak link (matador defense), and Randle has the best backup (in Nance).
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:31 am    Post subject:

i think Lakers first have to see how this team plays at least for couple of months before getting the sense what is missing and then go for a trade to fill what's missing
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Reflexx
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:48 am    Post subject:

I would not be surprised to find that we are looking for a solid SG or SF right now, and we may be dangling Randle as bait. But we'd want someone proven in return.

I also think that if Randle goes, Nick Young will be sgipped off with him as a requirement.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:57 am    Post subject:

There's nothing more boring than hypothetical trade scenarios. It's like wasting time trying to figure out how to spend your megabucks winnings.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:57 am    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
I would not be surprised to find that we are looking for a solid SG or SF right now, and we may be dangling Randle as bait. But we'd want someone proven in return.

I also think that if Randle goes, Nick Young will be sgipped off with him as a requirement.


Solid SF?

They signed Deng for 4 years and just drafted Ingram. What?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:00 am    Post subject:

Many teams have the same goal of sending out a package of some good (but not great) players and getting back a great (or near great player) back in return.

An upper tier Shooting Guard isn't going to be available for a package of the current Randle or Nance + Williams or Black. I think that most of the league considers Nick a negative asset, so including him in the trade package would require extra compensation to be added.


Even an improved trade package of Randle or Nance + Clarkson (later in the season) probably won't return a top tier SG such as Klay Thompson, Harden, C.J. McCollum etc.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:54 am    Post subject: Re: Hypothetical trade discussion - Overloaded front court

Lakerpark wrote:
Hi,

Ok, I'm really bored with this offseason lull right now. I would like to present a discussion of a HYPOTHETICAL trade scenario.

The Lakers future looks bright. If anything, the frontcourt may be getting a little crowded.

So, for this discussion I am assuming the youngsters live up to their potential and become at least pretty good players....not necessarily superstars but at least pieces to a contending team.

Looking into the near future, you have:

Starting Center: Zubac.
Back up centers: Yi JL and Tarik Black.

I like this rotation because hopefully Zubac will fulfill his potential while Yi and Tarik are natural back ups; not good enough to battle for the starting position but not so sucky that they don't deserve prime time playing time (unlike someone like Sacre)

Power Forward: Randle, Nance, Yi JL

I'm a little concerned here because neither Randle nor Nance could establish themselves far above the other. They both have different strengths and weaknesses. They may both provide impact to the game but in different ways. Splitting the time between them (24 minutes) really isn't enough for a bonafide starter/contributing player. I don't really see either as a legit small ball center...(I see that as more like Tarik Black's role) And Yi JL might cut into the PF time off the bench if he proves himself.

During the Bynum/Gasol/Odom era they could allocate the PT easier because Gasol could legitimately play PF and C, Lamar was a big contributor and the bench guys were no big deal. I feel that for the current situation this may not be true for Randle or Nance (until it is proven).

So, to make a long story short, unless Randle or Nance distances themselves from the other in terms of performance, someone may need to be traded....eventually. (That's what accumulating assets is all about)

So with all of these young assets, assuming the current players play to their potential (and do not become garbage like Sacre or Kelly did) HYPOTHETICALLY who would you trade between Randle or Nance? Perhaps they could be packaged with someone like Tarik Black, Nick young, Lou Williams, etc.

What would the missing piece to the Lakers championship puzzle be? (I would like to see them get a tall backcourt pure shooter)

What player in the NBA who is even remotely obtainable would fill this need?

If you don't want to play along with this discussion of a HYPOTHETICAL trade, please skip the hate.

Thanks
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:56 am    Post subject:

yuurin98 wrote:
Neither.

But if I have to choose, Randle.

Because he has more value than Nance to other teams, but to me Nance will be an important piece of the puzzle in the Lakers squad.


Agree 100%
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:36 am    Post subject:

Randle clarkson and 3 draft picks for Anthony Davis.
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LakerDYnasty72
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Hypothetical trade discussion - Overloaded front court

Lakerpark wrote:
Hi,

Ok, I'm really bored with this offseason lull right now. I would like to present a discussion of a HYPOTHETICAL trade scenario.

The Lakers future looks bright. If anything, the frontcourt may be getting a little crowded.

So, for this discussion I am assuming the youngsters live up to their potential and become at least pretty good players....not necessarily superstars but at least pieces to a contending team.

Looking into the near future, you have:

Starting Center: Zubac.
Back up centers: Yi JL and Tarik Black.

I like this rotation because hopefully Zubac will fulfill his potential while Yi and Tarik are natural back ups; not good enough to battle for the starting position but not so sucky that they don't deserve prime time playing time (unlike someone like Sacre)

Power Forward: Randle, Nance, Yi JL

I'm a little concerned here because neither Randle nor Nance could establish themselves far above the other. They both have different strengths and weaknesses. They may both provide impact to the game but in different ways. Splitting the time between them (24 minutes) really isn't enough for a bonafide starter/contributing player. I don't really see either as a legit small ball center...(I see that as more like Tarik Black's role) And Yi JL might cut into the PF time off the bench if he proves himself.

During the Bynum/Gasol/Odom era they could allocate the PT easier because Gasol could legitimately play PF and C, Lamar was a big contributor and the bench guys were no big deal. I feel that for the current situation this may not be true for Randle or Nance (until it is proven).

So, to make a long story short, unless Randle or Nance distances themselves from the other in terms of performance, someone may need to be traded....eventually. (That's what accumulating assets is all about)

So with all of these young assets, assuming the current players play to their potential (and do not become garbage like Sacre or Kelly did) HYPOTHETICALLY who would you trade between Randle or Nance? Perhaps they could be packaged with someone like Tarik Black, Nick young, Lou Williams, etc.

What would the missing piece to the Lakers championship puzzle be? (I would like to see them get a tall backcourt pure shooter)

What player in the NBA who is even remotely obtainable would fill this need?

If you don't want to play along with this discussion of a HYPOTHETICAL trade, please skip the hate.

Thanks


Basically the concern is whether Randle will fulfill his potential. There's a reason that Randle was no.7 in his draft, and Nance Jr was no.27 in his draft. Nance Jr, as much as we like him, will fetch practically nothing of true value at this point. As a matter of fact, because his trade value is so low right now, and unless he's packaged with someone else, we would more than likely make our team worse because he's already valuable to us.

That said, I think many of us see what you see. They are very talented guys with very good upside, but we know it's not great upside unless Randle truly embraces his role like the GS guy, and develops a consistent shot.

If he does that, we have a potential all-star, and an unequivocal starter.
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dao
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:11 am    Post subject:

you don't trade anyone yet until you see what they can do under Luke, especially since their trade value should increase significantly under a competent coaching staff. If we eventually break up the young core, I think a Clarkson/Randle package for an upgrade at SG makes perfect sense. I don't love the Russell/Clarkson backcourt longterm because it's not good enough defensively. And I also think Nance will be a better fit for us than Randle.

However, if Clarkson learns to defend, and if Randle surprises us and becomes a high IQ player with proper developmental coaching, then you don't have to break up the young core at all. Let's wait and see.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:17 am    Post subject:

yuurin98 wrote:
Neither.

But if I have to choose, Randle.

Because he has more value than Nance to other teams, but to me Nance will be an important piece of the puzzle in the Lakers squad.

Does he really? Nance is an hyper-athletic, team-first, energy player who defends, doesn't need plays drawn for him and can knock down open shots. Every team in the league can use one of those players. Randle is a PF who can't defend the rim nor shoot, two defining traits of the modern NBA 4. He barely makes any sense on this Laker team.

He makes far more sense on a team that needs a potential top of the roster scoring option. A team that has defense already but needs a guy with the mentality of a scorer who will attack the defense.

The Grizzlies could certainly use a replacement for Zach Randolph now that he is 35 and not really up to the task anymore.

The Pelicans would make sense if Anthony Davis is able to hold up at C as they could use an aggressive attack dog and his rebounding would certainly be welcome.

The Hawks as I don't expect Millsap to stick around could certainly use an aggressive scorer to replace him.

The Heat could surely use a cheap Bosh insurance policy.

What other team needs a player like Randle? Plus with how horrendous his offensive game was last year, I'm not sure most teams would want Randle to be a top offensive option.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:25 am    Post subject:

Roon wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
I would not be surprised to find that we are looking for a solid SG or SF right now, and we may be dangling Randle as bait. But we'd want someone proven in return.

I also think that if Randle goes, Nick Young will be sgipped off with him as a requirement.


Solid SF?

They signed Deng for 4 years and just drafted Ingram. What?


If we cant find a good SG, I think we can get a solid SF and Ingraham has the flexibility to be able to play SG.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:35 am    Post subject:

Ingram also is still growing and already has power forward height and length. I think it's more likely that he gets minutes there in the near future rather than at SG. The trend of the league is to get quicker at positions not bigger.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:02 am    Post subject:

Bait? That's Yi, because of the structure of his contract. Lou is a decent scorer but if the Lakers seek a better option at 2-3. Young is forever on the table.

Black can defeat the the 4-5, that will be valuable for the Lakers particularly if an injury occurs.

A. Brown had been struggling and he could be dangled as well.

I think both Randle and Nace are here to stay unless some team
offers something really really important. And in the case of a mega trade
most everyone could usually be on the table.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:16 am    Post subject:

2017 free agents unrestricted

Steph Curry


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:26 am    Post subject:

Randle and Zubac is the future.

They will be Randolph and Gasol in the future in 3-4 years.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:27 am    Post subject:

I don't agree that we have an overloaded front court. We have very few front court players who have shown they can play in the NBA. Mosgov is one, Randle is another. The list pretty much stops there.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:05 am    Post subject:

I think Luke will use his bigs situationally. Players like Yi, black won't play everygame, and if they do some nights they will see significantly less minutes than others. Nance, Randle will be the ones who get the consistent minutes but everyone else including mozgov will see their minutes fluctuate depending on matchups.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:25 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I don't agree that we have an overloaded front court. We have very few front court players who have shown they can play in the NBA. Mosgov is one, Randle is another. The list pretty much stops there.


I honestly have no idea how you come to the conclusion that Randle has proven he can play and Nance hasn't.

All Randle has proven so far is that despite oozing with potential, he is only slightly more effective than the anachronistic Jahlil Okafor who played half the season without a point guard. Nance only showed role player capabilities last year, but at least he was effective in that role. I doubt Randle would ever be satisfied as a role player, so it's moot that his lack of effectiveness was due to increased responsibility.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:17 pm    Post subject:

Team lacks a 2-3 swingman. Biggest glaring weakness to me. Clarkson is too small to play SF. Ingram is a long SF I can't see him playing much SG. I mean that is Nick Young but he really isn't in the long term plans.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:20 pm    Post subject:

cthroatgtr wrote:
Team lacks a 2-3 swingman. Biggest glaring weakness to me. Clarkson is too small to play SF. Ingram is a long SF I can't see him playing much SG. I mean that is Nick Young but he really isn't in the long term plans.


Young and brown are the only two. Unless we're expecting a trade or planning to cut young and sign someone like Xavier Henry, it looks like this is what we're working with this season.
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