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MAJIC
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 3320
Location: OC
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 Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | MAJIC wrote: |
Full of $h!t for asking if either one of his biological parents were African American? |
Why would it matter? |
It doesn't, I was just making benign conversation at the time.
Then the $hit show ensued.
| jodeke wrote: | MAJIC wrote:
| Quote: |
Full of $h!t for asking if either one of his biological parents were African American? |
No, for backing off your original reason, questioning CK's race, saying Harrison's apology was counterfeit after posting it to bolster your point, saying you know why other people feel the way they do and saying Harrison's agent was the reason for his apology. |
So not "No", but yes..
| jodeke wrote: | | I posted the link and picture to show you how fulla $hit you are. |
That was posted in response to my initial post in this thread where I was asking an honest squeaky clean question.
You posted that link and picture for other reasons, not to show how full of $hit I was.
Unless you're a clairvoyant
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jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67754
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | You posted that link and picture for other reasons, not to show how full of $hit I was.
Unless you're a clairvoyant |
There you go again telling me why I posted something.
I'm not clairvoyant. You seem to think you are.
EDIT: Why did I post the picture? Just curious.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | Is there a certain timeline one must adhere to in order to take a stand? The fact that he didn't take a stand before doesn't undercut his current position. That's one of the most misguided arguments one can make. And being a minority doesn't somehow make your position more credible. Just like your personal experience as a minority doesn't mean that people shouldn't want more or want better. In fact, your position is one that would slow progress. Social change has never been made in this, or any, country by making people COMFORTABLE. It's taken people rattling the cages in whatever way they could in whatever manner they would because it was the right thing to do in the face of ridicule. |
I agree with you here. But I do think your thought process is a little bit simplistic.
I agree that it takes rattling cages to drive change. But I don't think that means ANY and EVERY act that rattles cages must also then, be an appropriate act.
After all, cage-rattling actions, like violence for instance among others, can and often do slow progress rather than accelerate or foster it. I wish it were as simple as cage rattling = yes = good, but it isn't. |
Where did I say that someone should rattle the cages at every turn? You're the one that seems to be espousing the exact opposite in saying that the path to justice and equity comes from keeping people comfortable and immersion into the dominant culture that controls the system. Of course you can't and shouldn't rattle cages at every corner, but it's hilarious to me how on the one hand people lament how spoiled modern athletes are while also criticizing one who chooses to take a stand because he makes $19 million a year. Even if you don't agree with the path he's taking to make some kind of statement, the fact that he is making a statement about something bigger than himself is admirable. |
Sorry, this doesn't make any sense to me. Did you admire Kim Davis for making a statement about something bigger than herself? I didn't.
And I didn't mainly because I didn't agree with the path she took to make that statement even though I recognize her right to express her beliefs.
The delivery vehicle is paramount here. No one is really disputing that there are ills that need to be cured. The issue I have with what CK did, outside of the fact it seemed extremely disingenuous and down right pouty given his current circumstances, is that his actions seemed to be one with greater potential to alienate rather than challenge a contingent that his supposed and sudden cause would need on his side.
It's interesting though. Had Richard Sherman done that, I'd still not have agreed with his delivery vehicle, but it would have felt a lot more genuine since he's been vocal from day 1 about these sorts of social issues and not just when he can't get playing time ahead of a nobody. |
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KBH
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | Is there a certain timeline one must adhere to in order to take a stand? The fact that he didn't take a stand before doesn't undercut his current position. That's one of the most misguided arguments one can make. And being a minority doesn't somehow make your position more credible. Just like your personal experience as a minority doesn't mean that people shouldn't want more or want better. In fact, your position is one that would slow progress. Social change has never been made in this, or any, country by making people COMFORTABLE. It's taken people rattling the cages in whatever way they could in whatever manner they would because it was the right thing to do in the face of ridicule. |
I agree with you here. But I do think your thought process is a little bit simplistic.
I agree that it takes rattling cages to drive change. But I don't think that means ANY and EVERY act that rattles cages must also then, be an appropriate act.
After all, cage-rattling actions, like violence for instance among others, can and often do slow progress rather than accelerate or foster it. I wish it were as simple as cage rattling = yes = good, but it isn't. |
Where did I say that someone should rattle the cages at every turn? You're the one that seems to be espousing the exact opposite in saying that the path to justice and equity comes from keeping people comfortable and immersion into the dominant culture that controls the system. Of course you can't and shouldn't rattle cages at every corner, but it's hilarious to me how on the one hand people lament how spoiled modern athletes are while also criticizing one who chooses to take a stand because he makes $19 million a year. Even if you don't agree with the path he's taking to make some kind of statement, the fact that he is making a statement about something bigger than himself is admirable. |
Sorry, this doesn't make any sense to me. Did you admire Kim Davis for making a statement about something bigger than herself? I didn't.
And I didn't mainly because I didn't agree with the path she took to make that statement even though I recognize her right to express her beliefs.
The delivery vehicle is paramount here. No one is really disputing that there are ills that need to be cured. The issue I have with what CK did, outside of the fact it seemed extremely disingenuous and down right pouty given his current circumstances, is that his actions seemed to be one with greater potential to alienate rather than challenge a contingent that his supposed and sudden cause would need on his side.
It's interesting though. Had Richard Sherman done that, I'd still not have agreed with his delivery vehicle, but it would have felt a lot more genuine since he's been vocal from day 1 about these sorts of social issues and not just when he can't get playing time ahead of a nobody. |
The fact that you're using Kim Davis as an argument proves that this isn't a debate worth having with you. Kim Davis was trying to LIMIT people's rights and that justice should be applied equitably. Kap's position is that people of color should have the same rights. Kim Davis was actively breaking the law by not doing her job. Kim Davis made a spectacle of herself. CK exercised his constitutional right to peaceful protest in the most innocuous way possible, to the point where it took MULTIPLE games for people to notice.
If you can't see the obvious distinction here and how this makes your entire premise crumble, I don't know what to say to you. So I won't say anything else. That may be the stupidest analogy I've ever come across.
Edit:
I'll make a liar of myself and respond to another one of your nonsensical points. Please explain how drawing media attention to himself HELPS him in this situation? The fact that he's highly paid and can't get off the bench behind a nobody further hurts his job security because he's now a distraction that isn't contributing to the team. And that will be something other teams have in mind when considering whether or not they want to sign him. The obvious flaws in this argument are so readily apparent it's amazing someone could even consider this a real argument. Like do you really think that CK is sitting at home thinking, "I'm struggling on the field and can't get on the field. This is the perfect time to take a divisive position on race relations at a time when racial tensions are as high as they've been in years in the United States." CK has everything to lose, including his NFL career, by making this stand. And that's something Sherman wouldn't be risking as one of the game's best DBs. |
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IPK
Star Player
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 6859
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | Soon he will be cut and he can sit through the anthem from his couch.  |
Would be a great time to work with officials at the local and federal level tp pursue his political interests. Would def have more respect for him if he did! |
I doubt we see that. The guy is mentally challenged. He doesn't know how to take a helpful stance against an issue. |
Totally agree. He's a numbskull. |
There's a lot of unintentional irony here... |
You are a bad man. A very, very bad man.
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Our tribute to Phil, the man behind LG |
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governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I disagree with not standing up to our anthem but I respect his right to do so. The issue he's raising is that theres so much injustice towards minority in our country, basically saying our country is not great. Same thing as Trump's saying America is not great. If you're upset that not standing for the flag is disrespectful towards veterans, it's not even as blatantly disrespectful as Trump calling McCain loser/not a hero and picking on the Khan family. So if you tolerate Trump’s behavior/speech and you have so much hate for Kaepernick in doing this, especially bringing up his racial background/faith. Man, take deep breath and reflect a bit |
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IPK
Star Player
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 6859
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | MAJIC wrote: | Kaepernick looks Afghani, Lybian, or maybe Egyptian to me.
Am I the only one who thinks this?
Is it even confirmed that he's got an African American biological parent? Lol
(Dead serious) |
Not so much his roots necessarily. It was likely his Muslim girlfriend who was behind this. That must be one amazing piece of (bleep) to influence him this heavily.
PIC |
Really guys? I think your trump is showing. |
Actually, this one is pretty good too. Might have to it use in the future.
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Our tribute to Phil, the man behind LG |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | Is there a certain timeline one must adhere to in order to take a stand? The fact that he didn't take a stand before doesn't undercut his current position. That's one of the most misguided arguments one can make. And being a minority doesn't somehow make your position more credible. Just like your personal experience as a minority doesn't mean that people shouldn't want more or want better. In fact, your position is one that would slow progress. Social change has never been made in this, or any, country by making people COMFORTABLE. It's taken people rattling the cages in whatever way they could in whatever manner they would because it was the right thing to do in the face of ridicule. |
I agree with you here. But I do think your thought process is a little bit simplistic.
I agree that it takes rattling cages to drive change. But I don't think that means ANY and EVERY act that rattles cages must also then, be an appropriate act.
After all, cage-rattling actions, like violence for instance among others, can and often do slow progress rather than accelerate or foster it. I wish it were as simple as cage rattling = yes = good, but it isn't. |
Where did I say that someone should rattle the cages at every turn? You're the one that seems to be espousing the exact opposite in saying that the path to justice and equity comes from keeping people comfortable and immersion into the dominant culture that controls the system. Of course you can't and shouldn't rattle cages at every corner, but it's hilarious to me how on the one hand people lament how spoiled modern athletes are while also criticizing one who chooses to take a stand because he makes $19 million a year. Even if you don't agree with the path he's taking to make some kind of statement, the fact that he is making a statement about something bigger than himself is admirable. |
Sorry, this doesn't make any sense to me. Did you admire Kim Davis for making a statement about something bigger than herself? I didn't.
And I didn't mainly because I didn't agree with the path she took to make that statement even though I recognize her right to express her beliefs.
The delivery vehicle is paramount here. No one is really disputing that there are ills that need to be cured. The issue I have with what CK did, outside of the fact it seemed extremely disingenuous and down right pouty given his current circumstances, is that his actions seemed to be one with greater potential to alienate rather than challenge a contingent that his supposed and sudden cause would need on his side.
It's interesting though. Had Richard Sherman done that, I'd still not have agreed with his delivery vehicle, but it would have felt a lot more genuine since he's been vocal from day 1 about these sorts of social issues and not just when he can't get playing time ahead of a nobody. |
The fact that you're using Kim Davis as an argument proves that this isn't a debate worth having with you. Kim Davis was trying to LIMIT people's rights and that justice should be applied equitably. Kap's position is that people of color should have the same rights. Kim Davis was actively breaking the law by not doing her job. Kim Davis made a spectacle of herself. CK exercised his constitutional right to peaceful protest in the most innocuous way possible, to the point where it took MULTIPLE games for people to notice.
If you can't see the obvious distinction here and how this makes your entire premise crumble, I don't know what to say to you. So I won't say anything else. That may be the stupidest analogy I've ever come across.
Edit:
I'll make a liar of myself and respond to another one of your nonsensical points. Please explain how drawing media attention to himself HELPS him in this situation? The fact that he's highly paid and can't get off the bench behind a nobody further hurts his job security because he's now a distraction that isn't contributing to the team. And that will be something other teams have in mind when considering whether or not they want to sign him. The obvious flaws in this argument are so readily apparent it's amazing someone could even consider this a real argument. Like do you really think that CK is sitting at home thinking, "I'm struggling on the field and can't get on the field. This is the perfect time to take a divisive position on race relations at a time when racial tensions are as high as they've been in years in the United States." CK has everything to lose, including his NFL career, by making this stand. And that's something Sherman wouldn't be risking as one of the game's best DBs. |
This is funny and a true sign of the times.
You basically just said they are different but only because you agree with Kap's message but not Davis'.
My point has been the vehicle matters. That's it. And in this case, and Kim Davs', I don't agree with how the message/sentiment was carried out even though I may sympathize with one cause and not the other. |
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LakerLanny
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47594
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Kappy couldn't handle the franchise QB pressure, failed and now is looking for a way out to take the focus of his performance.
Maybe I am just a cynic, I am sure he will be "leading the cause" on social media
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Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't even think the vehicle he's using is wrong. It's that his message is skewed by placing blame on the country's principles for the actions of a few bad cops. |
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | I don't even think the vehicle he's using is wrong. It's that his message is skewed by placing blame on the country's principles for the actions of a few bad cops. |
No, he's placing blame on a system and culture that spawns and protects and enables those cops, and instead demonized the victims or those who speak on their behalf. These aren't isolated events or separate from police culture in general or the acquiescence of the public. The criminal justice system has and continues to brutalize and profile people of color, and the flag waving masses egg them on at worst, and simply ignores it or denies it at best.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Reflexx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | I don't even think the vehicle he's using is wrong. It's that his message is skewed by placing blame on the country's principles for the actions of a few bad cops. |
No, he's placing blame on a system and culture that spawns and protects and enables those cops, and instead demonized the victims or those who speak on their behalf. These aren't isolated events or separate from police culture in general or the acquiescence of the public. The criminal justice system has and continues to brutalize and profile people of color, and the flag waving masses egg them on at worst, and simply ignores it or denies it at best. |
So he's blaming America for the actions of a few bad individuals. |
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Huey Lewis & The News
Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 5234
Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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I won't argue with anyone who says the nation has some work to do re: racial harmony, but I'll be damned if there's another superpower that champions diversity--as in true diversity, not the campus buzz word for hating white men--as much as we do, even with all of our racists.
3 cheers for Colin K. for exercising his freedom of expression (and virtue signaling/publicity stunts) and 3 cheers to the USA's work towards a real melting pot. I'd rather have my brown skin in this country than in any other western country.
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"All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers."
http://forums.lakersground.net/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=13018 |
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MAJIC
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 3320
Location: OC
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: |
| Quote: | You posted that link and picture for other reasons, not to show how full of $hit I was.
Unless you're a clairvoyant |
There you go again telling me why I posted something.
I'm not clairvoyant. You seem to think you are.
EDIT: Why did I post the picture? Just curious. |
It certainly wasn't to post that I was full of $h!t at that juncture of the thread that's for sure.
Anybody following this thread can see that.
Let me tie a little bow on my time in this thread by posting what Green Bay Packer QB Aaron Rodgers had to say about this topic, as it shares my sentiments To a T:
Article here
| Quote: |
“To me, the flag represents the greatest ideals of the United States of America, not the worst,” Rodgers told Sporting News in an exclusive interview Monday at his Lambeau Field locker. “But different people look at different things and have different feelings about it. That’s what freedom of expression is all about.”
Rodgers said the national anthem provides him “a moment where I like to reflect and give thanks for the opportunity to do what I’m doing, to be out on the field."
“I think about the men and women who served proudly and died in wars for that flag to be flown,” Rodgers continued. “I think about the men and women in uniform right now who are out there protecting our freedom. I’m filled with a lot of thanks and pride in those people.” -Aaron Rodgers
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Thanks again for the links...
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16 and counting.... |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | I don't even think the vehicle he's using is wrong. It's that his message is skewed by placing blame on the country's principles for the actions of a few bad cops. |
No, he's placing blame on a system and culture that spawns and protects and enables those cops, and instead demonized the victims or those who speak on their behalf. These aren't isolated events or separate from police culture in general or the acquiescence of the public. The criminal justice system has and continues to brutalize and profile people of color, and the flag waving masses egg them on at worst, and simply ignores it or denies it at best. |
So he's blaming America for the actions of a few bad individuals. |
Still not getting it. It's not a few bad individuals. It's systemic.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Thugnomoe
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 14660
Location: unfortunately not Los Angeles anymore
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| MAJIC wrote: | | jodeke wrote: |
| Quote: | You posted that link and picture for other reasons, not to show how full of $hit I was.
Unless you're a clairvoyant |
There you go again telling me why I posted something.
I'm not clairvoyant. You seem to think you are.
EDIT: Why did I post the picture? Just curious. |
It certainly wasn't to post that I was full of $h!t at that juncture of the thread that's for sure.
Anybody following this thread can see that.
Let me tie a little bow on my time in this thread by posting what Green Bay Packer QB Aaron Rodgers had to say about this topic, as it shares my sentiments To a T:
Article here
| Quote: |
“To me, the flag represents the greatest ideals of the United States of America, not the worst,” Rodgers told Sporting News in an exclusive interview Monday at his Lambeau Field locker. “But different people look at different things and have different feelings about it. That’s what freedom of expression is all about.”
Rodgers said the national anthem provides him “a moment where I like to reflect and give thanks for the opportunity to do what I’m doing, to be out on the field."
“I think about the men and women who served proudly and died in wars for that flag to be flown,” Rodgers continued. “I think about the men and women in uniform right now who are out there protecting our freedom. I’m filled with a lot of thanks and pride in those people.” -Aaron Rodgers
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Thanks again for the links... |
reason number 1000 that niners should have drafted him instead of Alex Smith. then we wouldn't have to deal with this head case kaepernick |
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KBH
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | Is there a certain timeline one must adhere to in order to take a stand? The fact that he didn't take a stand before doesn't undercut his current position. That's one of the most misguided arguments one can make. And being a minority doesn't somehow make your position more credible. Just like your personal experience as a minority doesn't mean that people shouldn't want more or want better. In fact, your position is one that would slow progress. Social change has never been made in this, or any, country by making people COMFORTABLE. It's taken people rattling the cages in whatever way they could in whatever manner they would because it was the right thing to do in the face of ridicule. |
I agree with you here. But I do think your thought process is a little bit simplistic.
I agree that it takes rattling cages to drive change. But I don't think that means ANY and EVERY act that rattles cages must also then, be an appropriate act.
After all, cage-rattling actions, like violence for instance among others, can and often do slow progress rather than accelerate or foster it. I wish it were as simple as cage rattling = yes = good, but it isn't. |
Where did I say that someone should rattle the cages at every turn? You're the one that seems to be espousing the exact opposite in saying that the path to justice and equity comes from keeping people comfortable and immersion into the dominant culture that controls the system. Of course you can't and shouldn't rattle cages at every corner, but it's hilarious to me how on the one hand people lament how spoiled modern athletes are while also criticizing one who chooses to take a stand because he makes $19 million a year. Even if you don't agree with the path he's taking to make some kind of statement, the fact that he is making a statement about something bigger than himself is admirable. |
Sorry, this doesn't make any sense to me. Did you admire Kim Davis for making a statement about something bigger than herself? I didn't.
And I didn't mainly because I didn't agree with the path she took to make that statement even though I recognize her right to express her beliefs.
The delivery vehicle is paramount here. No one is really disputing that there are ills that need to be cured. The issue I have with what CK did, outside of the fact it seemed extremely disingenuous and down right pouty given his current circumstances, is that his actions seemed to be one with greater potential to alienate rather than challenge a contingent that his supposed and sudden cause would need on his side.
It's interesting though. Had Richard Sherman done that, I'd still not have agreed with his delivery vehicle, but it would have felt a lot more genuine since he's been vocal from day 1 about these sorts of social issues and not just when he can't get playing time ahead of a nobody. |
The fact that you're using Kim Davis as an argument proves that this isn't a debate worth having with you. Kim Davis was trying to LIMIT people's rights and that justice should be applied equitably. Kap's position is that people of color should have the same rights. Kim Davis was actively breaking the law by not doing her job. Kim Davis made a spectacle of herself. CK exercised his constitutional right to peaceful protest in the most innocuous way possible, to the point where it took MULTIPLE games for people to notice.
If you can't see the obvious distinction here and how this makes your entire premise crumble, I don't know what to say to you. So I won't say anything else. That may be the stupidest analogy I've ever come across.
Edit:
I'll make a liar of myself and respond to another one of your nonsensical points. Please explain how drawing media attention to himself HELPS him in this situation? The fact that he's highly paid and can't get off the bench behind a nobody further hurts his job security because he's now a distraction that isn't contributing to the team. And that will be something other teams have in mind when considering whether or not they want to sign him. The obvious flaws in this argument are so readily apparent it's amazing someone could even consider this a real argument. Like do you really think that CK is sitting at home thinking, "I'm struggling on the field and can't get on the field. This is the perfect time to take a divisive position on race relations at a time when racial tensions are as high as they've been in years in the United States." CK has everything to lose, including his NFL career, by making this stand. And that's something Sherman wouldn't be risking as one of the game's best DBs. |
This is funny and a true sign of the times.
You basically just said they are different but only because you agree with Kap's message but not Davis'.
My point has been the vehicle matters. That's it. And in this case, and Kim Davs', I don't agree with how the message/sentiment was carried out even though I may sympathize with one cause and not the other. |
LOL! There isn't a difference between breaking the law and not breaking the law and not breaking the law? There isn't a difference between doing your job and not doing your job? This is fact. Not my opinion. If Kapernick's vehicle involved impeding people's rights, your nonsensical analogy would work even if it were for a cause I supported. Kapernick's vehicle is not impeding on anyone's rights or breaking any law. It's the freakin' definition of peaceful protest, which is an inalienable right. Your analogy couldn't be more flimsy in every way.
If you used the rioting and looting that spawned from a few Black Lives Matters protests, you would have a point. It would be a cause I agree with but a vehicle I disagree with. If you made up an example about a clerk giving marriage licenses to interracial couples in the 60s being fired from their post, that would be a cause I agree, but at least it would hold the distinction of being against the law, and thus something harder for me to argue with, you would have a point. If you used the example of Black Panthers walking around with guns in the 70s, you would have a point because they hold positions I agree with but they're vehicle is more forceful than I would like.
But you didn't. Which makes your position nothing more than the white noise nonsense that is distracting people from the actual discussion. Again, I don't even know why I'm entertaining this debate with you.
Last edited by KBH on Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:27 am; edited 3 times in total |
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KBH
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | I disagree with not standing up to our anthem but I respect his right to do so. The issue he's raising is that theres so much injustice towards minority in our country, basically saying our country is not great. Same thing as Trump's saying America is not great. If you're upset that not standing for the flag is disrespectful towards veterans, it's not even as blatantly disrespectful as Trump calling McCain loser/not a hero and picking on the Khan family. So if you tolerate Trump’s behavior/speech and you have so much hate for Kaepernick in doing this, especially bringing up his racial background/faith. Man, take deep breath and reflect a bit |
And this is at the heart of much this debate. A rich white guy who inherited his wealth says America isn't great is one vote away from being the President. A rich person of color is saying America is not great and is un-American. And other than the obvious racial differences, the reason CK's action is drawing such ire from those very people is because Trump blames most or all the brown and black people for America's ills and Kap is taking a stand against the mostly white establishment with systems in place that limit equity and justice for those black and brown people. |
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KBH
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Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | I don't even think the vehicle he's using is wrong. It's that his message is skewed by placing blame on the country's principles for the actions of a few bad cops. |
No, he's placing blame on a system and culture that spawns and protects and enables those cops, and instead demonized the victims or those who speak on their behalf. These aren't isolated events or separate from police culture in general or the acquiescence of the public. The criminal justice system has and continues to brutalize and profile people of color, and the flag waving masses egg them on at worst, and simply ignores it or denies it at best. |
So he's blaming America for the actions of a few bad individuals. |
Still not getting it. It's not a few bad individuals. It's systemic. |
And this is the crux of the issue, particularly for those so far removed from it. When a cop does something bad, to many, he only represents himself. Not the system or organization he was trained by and represents. But people of color are often not afforded that same leeway. Someone posted a link a few pages back of the Governor of Maine saying when you're at war, you have to know your enemy, and he explicitly named minorities as the enemy he's at war with. And that's just one of many examples that can be used to show is unfavorable to many. And why people like Colin feel the need to make a stand. |
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Reflexx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | I don't even think the vehicle he's using is wrong. It's that his message is skewed by placing blame on the country's principles for the actions of a few bad cops. |
No, he's placing blame on a system and culture that spawns and protects and enables those cops, and instead demonized the victims or those who speak on their behalf. These aren't isolated events or separate from police culture in general or the acquiescence of the public. The criminal justice system has and continues to brutalize and profile people of color, and the flag waving masses egg them on at worst, and simply ignores it or denies it at best. |
So he's blaming America for the actions of a few bad individuals. |
Still not getting it. It's not a few bad individuals. It's systemic. |
It is a few bad individuals. There is no policy to kill black men.
And there had still been no link to how it relates to the flag or anthem. Basically, how it is the fault of the nation itself. That this nation is so evil that it somehow the cause of these incidents. |
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anpherknee
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KBH
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| anpherknee wrote: | https://twitter.com/MaineDems/status/769254775863074816
one more time for the people in the back |
Thank you for posting this again. Many people are unwilling to see the ugly truths that exist in this world because it shatters their idealized world views and ultimately forces them to evaluate their place in a society in which they not only enjoy inherent privileges, while others have to overcome infrastructure designed to disenfranchise them. |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | LOL! There isn't a difference between breaking the law and not breaking the law and not breaking the law? There isn't a difference between doing your job and not doing your job? This is fact. Not my opinion. If Kapernick's vehicle involved impeding people's rights, your nonsensical analogy would work even if it were for a cause I supported. Kapernick's vehicle is not impeding on anyone's rights or breaking any law. It's the freakin' definition of peaceful protest, which is an inalienable right. Your analogy couldn't be more flimsy in every way.
If you used the rioting and looting that spawned from a few Black Lives Matters protests, you would have a point. It would be a cause I agree with but a vehicle I disagree with. If you made up an example about a clerk giving marriage licenses to interracial couples in the 60s being fired from their post, that would be a cause I agree, but at least it would hold the distinction of being against the law, and thus something harder for me to argue with, you would have a point. If you used the example of Black Panthers walking around with guns in the 70s, you would have a point because they hold positions I agree with but they're vehicle is more forceful than I would like.
But you didn't. Which makes your position nothing more than the white noise nonsense that is distracting people from the actual discussion. Again, I don't even know why I'm entertaining this debate with you. |
I'm not sure what else to tell you. The protest made no sense to me. Sometimes, protests have to break the law because it is the very law that is being challenged. So the legality of the protest is entirely irrelevant. For me. Apparently, that is the factor on which your admiration of a protest hinges, that's fine, but certainly not for me.
The issues we're seeing with police violence, are not a United States of America issue. This isn't the military going around hurting and/or killing people. It is a police issue at the local levels. I suppose you could make the argument that anything and everything eventually rolls up to Uncle Sam, (which ironically is what CK said) but that's a bit of stretch for me.
I mean, let me ask you this ... Obama is the ultimate leader that is responsible foe the very nation CK was protesting. So, if you agree with what CK did, then, do you also agree that said leader has failed in this regard?
(For the record, I don't. I don't think this is an Obama/Country issue at all, which again, is why it didn't make a whole lot of sense). |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | I don't even think the vehicle he's using is wrong. It's that his message is skewed by placing blame on the country's principles for the actions of a few bad cops. |
No, he's placing blame on a system and culture that spawns and protects and enables those cops, and instead demonized the victims or those who speak on their behalf. These aren't isolated events or separate from police culture in general or the acquiescence of the public. The criminal justice system has and continues to brutalize and profile people of color, and the flag waving masses egg them on at worst, and simply ignores it or denies it at best. |
So he's blaming America for the actions of a few bad individuals. |
Still not getting it. It's not a few bad individuals. It's systemic. |
It is a few bad individuals. There is no policy to kill black men. |
Get real. You take being obtuse to embarrassing levels. There is a systemic attitude in law enforcement that has treated minorities as the enemy for decades and is still a problem. This is why black people are stopped, arrested and incarcerated disproportionally than whites. The judicial system is stacked against minorities as well. Stanford rapist Brock Turner gets out of jail on Friday after serving only 3 months. Do you think a black male who was not a student at the university would have gotten such a light sentence for the exact same act? Of course not.
Ignoring the vast differences between how our legal system deals with minorities and white people is asinine.
| Quote: | | And there had still been no link to how it relates to the flag or anthem. Basically, how it is the fault of the nation itself. That this nation is so evil that it somehow the cause of these incidents. |
I will agree with you that CK's attack on the entire nation itself is misdirected. But it doesn't mean his message is incorrect, and the nation stands for his right to sit.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| MAJIC wrote: | | jodeke wrote: |
| Quote: | You posted that link and picture for other reasons, not to show how full of $hit I was.
Unless you're a clairvoyant |
There you go again telling me why I posted something.
I'm not clairvoyant. You seem to think you are.
EDIT: Why did I post the picture? Just curious. |
It certainly wasn't to post that I was full of $h!t at that juncture of the thread that's for sure.
Anybody following this thread can see that.
Let me tie a little bow on my time in this thread by posting what Green Bay Packer QB Aaron Rodgers had to say about this topic, as it shares my sentiments To a T:
Article here
| Quote: |
“To me, the flag represents the greatest ideals of the United States of America, not the worst,” Rodgers told Sporting News in an exclusive interview Monday at his Lambeau Field locker. “But different people look at different things and have different feelings about it. That’s what freedom of expression is all about.”
Rodgers said the national anthem provides him “a moment where I like to reflect and give thanks for the opportunity to do what I’m doing, to be out on the field."
“I think about the men and women who served proudly and died in wars for that flag to be flown,” Rodgers continued. “I think about the men and women in uniform right now who are out there protecting our freedom. I’m filled with a lot of thanks and pride in those people.” -Aaron Rodgers
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Thanks again for the links... |
That doesn't answer the question. I'm not asking anyone following the thread, I'm asking you.
About the military CK said
| Quote: | So many people see the flag as a symbol of the military. How do you view it and what do you say to those people?
CK: I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country. I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up, as far as giving freedom and justice, liberty to everybody. That’s something that’s not happening. I’ve seen videos, I’ve seen circumstances where men and women that have been in the military have come back and been treated unjustly by the country they have fought for, and have been murdered by the country they fought for, on our land. That’s not right. |
He's not disrespecting the military, some are putting their spin on what he did and making it seem as though he is.
I don't think Kap should sit during the anthem, I think that's disrespecting a symbol that stands for more than what he's protesting. Again I'm on-board with the protest, not the vehicle used. That vehicle has caused the reason he sat to be glossed over. It's something not many want to discuss.
You want to tie a bow with quotes from a football player. Let me tie a bow with quotes from veterans.
US military members are showing support for Colin Kaepernick with #VeteransForKaepernick
LINK
Please watch the video at the end of the article.
LINK
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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