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jodeke
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 Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:06 am Post subject: |
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I've lost all respect for Kaepernick, he didn't vote. I didn't like the vehicle he used to protest, I detest his reasons for not voting. He disrespected Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Bayard Rustin, to name a few.
I have gotten off the bus. CK is a AH. He can GTH. 
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| This guy is a phony. Some of us just held our tongue while he showed his true colors. |
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Theseus
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | LINK
I've lost all respect for Kaepernick, he didn't vote. I didn't like the vehicle he used to protest, I detest his reasons for not voting. He disrespected Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Bayard Rustin, to name a few.
I have gotten off the bus. CK is a AH. He can GTH. |
I'm glad you called him out. I agree with you on this |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I was drawn to the cause. I didn't allow him individually to be a part of it. I saw the message being lost because he was the focus.
I still believe in the message. I now have no respect for the messenger.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | LINK
I've lost all respect for Kaepernick, he didn't vote. I didn't like the vehicle he used to protest, I detest his reasons for not voting. He disrespected Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Bayard Rustin, to name a few.
I have gotten off the bus. CK is a AH. He can GTH. |
I feel the exact opposite. It would have been extremely hypocritical of him to vote for either Trump or Hillary, and none of the candidates made racial oppression a point of issue. He's made it a point to criticize both primary candidates. It was never just about Trump. Hillary and Trump both were terrible in his eyes. When you vote for someone, you're removing all right you have to complain about the decisions you knew would come from that person being in office. That's what people don't get about non-voters. You want people to vote for one candidate to avoid another without taking into account whether the first candidate's views align with their own.
You see it time and time again, when someone raises concerns about a politician, their ethics, their policies, one of the first quesions that person is asked is if they voted for them. In other words, "Did you support this person, and if you did, what right do you have to complain? You did this. This is your fault." We see it now with Hillary supporters trying to shift the blame for Trump taking office to the non-voters, claiming they haven't a right to complain since they essentially voted for Trump. That's false, and all that does is acknowledge the fact that vote-blaming exists, which is something people would do if that person did vote for Hillary and later complained about her presidency.
I find the act of complaining about non-voters extremely obnoxious. For one, there is no telling who they would have voted for had they chosen to vote. Two, you're asking them to forfeit their integrity(voting for the demon to avoid the devil is still voting for the demon. And everything that demon does in office is on you.) Three, it's shifting the blame from the responsible party. This was a failure on the system to provide a suitable candidate for someone like Kaepernick(and the millions of others that didn't vote) to get behind. The very fact that Hillary supporters blame the non-voters for her loss is a clear sign of failure on the DNC's part. These are some of the same people that voted for Obama. They will vote if you give them the right candidate. Hillary was not, even despite Trump, which makes that fact more apparent. She was so bad that people either chose to vote for a dead gorilla or stay at home than making sure the devil didn't take office.
If you don't like the candidates, you don't like the candidates. I have no problem with someone maintaining their integrity and not selling themselves out by backing someone they fundamentally disagree with.
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rwongega
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Theseus
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | I was drawn to the cause. I didn't allow him individually to be a part of it. I saw the message being lost because he was the focus.
I still believe in the message. I now have no respect for the messenger. |
I agree with you again on this point. |
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Conker
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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You don't like him because he didn't vote?
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | LINK
I've lost all respect for Kaepernick, he didn't vote. I didn't like the vehicle he used to protest, I detest his reasons for not voting. He disrespected Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Bayard Rustin, to name a few.
I have gotten off the bus. CK is a AH. He can GTH. |
This makes no sense. Kaepernick didn't drive this bus. The movement/message is bigger than Kaepernick.
No reason to get off the bus just because Kaepernick didn't vote.
That's like saying I'm not down w/ the civil rights movement anymore because Martin Luther King didn't vote.
That's silly. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | I was drawn to the cause. I didn't allow him individually to be a part of it. I saw the message being lost because he was the focus.
I still believe in the message. I now have no respect for the messenger. |
Yes, didn't see this before I responded to the other post... |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | LINK
I've lost all respect for Kaepernick, he didn't vote. I didn't like the vehicle he used to protest, I detest his reasons for not voting. He disrespected Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Bayard Rustin, to name a few.
I have gotten off the bus. CK is a AH. He can GTH. |
He always seemed politically lazy to me. And there's nothing wrong with that, a lot of people are.
But he pretended not to be. It just never passed the sniff test for me.
He is lazy politically and in life. |
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The Brain
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Approx 220 million people in America don't vote. That is a lot of people not to like, hah. I believe people dont vote because it doesnt matter. Pretty much true if you really think about it.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | LINK
I've lost all respect for Kaepernick, he didn't vote. I didn't like the vehicle he used to protest, I detest his reasons for not voting. He disrespected Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Bayard Rustin, to name a few.
I have gotten off the bus. CK is a AH. He can GTH. |
He always seemed politically lazy to me. And there's nothing wrong with that, a lot of people are.
But he pretended not to be. It just never passed the sniff test for me.
He is lazy politically and in life. |
Not often you and I agree RF but in this instance we're lock step. I wear the egg, eat the crow. He fooled me.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| The Brain wrote: | | Approx 220 million people in America don't vote. That is a lot of people not to like, hah. I believe people dont vote because it doesnt matter. Pretty much true if you really think about it. |
There are people that don't vote because they are under 18, but there is also a portion of the population that is incarcerated or don't want to participate in the process. Also there is a significant number of people who can't vote because they have a medical condition. |
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of people dropped their principles this election to vote for the lesser of two evils. That's fine in my book, you have the right to do as you please. But I find it absolutely deplorable demanding that others do the same. Criticizing others for not doing the same. One person chose to not vote for someone they don't believe in, the other did the exact opposite. Only one party there is pretending.
Change will never come in the system if you keep voting for individuals that you don't believe in because the opposing candidate is someone you definitely don't believe in. You do not have an obligation to vote. And people that believe that you do are doing nothing but perpetuating an extremely flawed system.
Did the DNC get the message that presenting the people with a candidate like Hillary is not acceptable? I doubt it. All the Hillary supporters are blaming the non voters, the Johnson and Stein voters and racist America for losing the election.
Everybody but her. Everybody but themselves.
Not listening seems to be their issue, and they will continue to not listen as long you keep giving them your votes. I find the people complaining about non voters to be disingenuous. They're not worried about the health of the republic with millions choosing to stay home, they're worried about their candidate losing, feeling entitled to all those votes that never came to be. I don't see the Trump supporters complaining about non voters. The dishonesty is obvious.
Trump was very beatable. Had it been Obama he would have lost soundly. Had it been Bernie he would have lost. He likely would have lost to Biden as well. Literally the only way he could have won is if the DNC offered up an extremely flawed candidate, and that's exactly what they did. They didn't feel the need to offer up someone better, and that's the crux of the systematic issue. In their minds, they have your vote. What's the motivation to actually pick the best candidate? And if that candidate loses, it's everyone else's fault, let's do the same thing in 4 years and hope people come to their senses.
This is why people get turned off to politics. You have this glaring flaw in the system, and instead of recognizing the flaw and making strides to correct it, to do better, you just blame the persons not participating. Blame everyone else. And be dishonest about it. They have grievances with how things are going in America, and by not participating in a loaded election you lose the right to complain. Dishonesty.
No offense jodeke, but that MLK bit had my blood boiling.
Present these people with a steak and they'll vote for the steak. Present them with manure and they'll tell you to (bleep) off. If the takeaway from that is not to make sure you present that steak everytime, if the takeaway is that those people should get their entitled, lazy asses up and vote for the manure anyway, that says something about you and nothing about them. People have standards, principles, and because they choose to abide by them no matter what, that's not behavior to be disgraced, that's behavior to be lauded. And the very fact that it seldom isn't by the people apart of the system shows the fundamental problem with that system and why it has stood against change for so long.
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | Change will never come in the system if you keep voting for individuals that you don't believe in because the opposing candidate is someone you definitely don't believe in. You do not have an obligation to vote. And people that believe that you do are doing nothing but perpetuating an extremely flawed system. |
Well, in the example of Kaepernick, he will continue to kneel until "America changes."
Who's going to change America? The people that took office. How did they get into office? They were voted in.
So even though he didn't believe in any of the candidates, he's still hoping for changes.
He's still going to kneel.
He's still going to demand that the President in office upholds the American standards that he believes people of color deserve.
He had a choice between Trump, Hilitary, or some other person.
He chose to pass. Now, he has Trump.
He doesn't believe that Trump will help w/ the cause, but he's going to demand it by continuing to kneel....
If he believes it's futile to vote for any of the candidates, then wouldn't it also be futile to continue to kneel and hope for a better America? |
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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My entire post was literally about that very thing. Please don't cherry pick.
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | A lot of people dropped their principles this election to vote for the lesser of two evils. That's fine in my book, you have the right to do as you please. But I find it absolutely deplorable demanding that others do the same. Criticizing others for not doing the same. One person chose to not vote for someone they don't believe in, the other did the exact opposite. Only one party there is pretending.
Change will never come in the system if you keep voting for individuals that you don't believe in because the opposing candidate is someone you definitely don't believe in. You do not have an obligation to vote. And people that believe that you do are doing nothing but perpetuating an extremely flawed system.
Did the DNC get the message that presenting the people with a candidate like Hillary is not acceptable? I doubt it. All the Hillary supporters are blaming the non voters, the Johnson and Stein voters and racist America for losing the election.
Everybody but her. Everybody but themselves.
Not listening seems to be their issue, and they will continue to not listen as long you keep giving them your votes. I find the people complaining about non voters to be disingenuous. They're not worried about the health of the republic with millions choosing to stay home, they're worried about their candidate losing, feeling entitled to all those votes that never came to be. I don't see the Trump supporters complaining about non voters. The dishonesty is obvious.
Trump was very beatable. Had it been Obama he would have lost soundly. Had it been Bernie he would have lost. He likely would have lost to Biden as well. Literally the only way he could have won is if the DNC offered up an extremely flawed candidate, and that's exactly what they did. They didn't feel the need to offer up someone better, and that's the crux of the systematic issue. In their minds, they have your vote. What's the motivation to actually pick the best candidate? And if that candidate loses, it's everyone else's fault, let's do the same thing in 4 years and hope people come to their senses.
This is why people get turned off to politics. You have this glaring flaw in the system, and instead of recognizing the flaw and making strides to correct it, to do better, you just blame the persons not participating. Blame everyone else. And be dishonest about it. They have grievances with how things are going in America, and by not participating in a loaded election you lose the right to complain. Dishonesty.
No offense jodeke, but that MLK bit had my blood boiling.
Present these people with a steak and they'll vote for the steak. Present them with manure and they'll tell you to (bleep) off. If the takeaway from that is not to make sure you present that steak everytime, if the takeaway is that those people should get their entitled, lazy asses up and vote for the manure anyway, that says something about you and nothing about them. People have standards, principles, and because they choose to abide by them no matter what, that's not behavior to be disgraced, that's behavior to be lauded. And the very fact that it seldom isn't by the people apart of the system shows the fundamental problem with that system and why it has stood against change for so long. |
Agree 100% and especially with the bolded. The level of delusion is closing on comical levels. Look no further than the politics thread. Still have people running their mouths non-stop pointing their fingers at everything, everyone but themselves. The disconnect is real and we (the DNC) need to figure it out. If the continuing pervasive attitude of "well it's dem rednecks fault" continues in 2020, we'll probably lose again. Yeah, that's really going to resonate with some poor (bleep) in the rust belt coming from some smug elitist in their multi millioin dollar house bragging about their vacations and the vintage of their wine. Makes me sick the level of condescension which is only outdone by how (bleep) tone deaf they are. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | My entire post was literally about that very thing. Please don't cherry pick. |
What's the problem w/ highlighting one aspect of your post when the entire post is there for everyone to read? It's not like I can misquote you when your entire post is there right above....
Your position is: a person (such as Kaepernick) shouldn't have to vote if he doesn't believe in any of the candidates.
My position is: Kaepernick should have voted based on his platform/agenda/message/cause.
How is it literally the same? |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | Yeah, that's really going to resonate with some poor (bleep) in the rust belt coming from some smug elitist in their multi millioin dollar house bragging about their vacations and the vintage of their wine. Makes me sick the level of condescension which is only outdone by how (bleep) tone deaf they are. |
This is another narrative that I don't get.
When you go through school, what do they tell you? Study hard, work hard and you'll be successful. Conversely, they're always warning you "if you don't want to work at McDonalds for the rest of your life, then you have to stay in school!"
When it plays out exactly how it was prophesied and forwarned, then the narrative switches to:
the poor working class vs. "the smug elitist in their multi milliion dollar house bragging about their vacations and the vintage of their wine." |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | Yeah, that's really going to resonate with some poor (bleep) in the rust belt coming from some smug elitist in their multi millioin dollar house bragging about their vacations and the vintage of their wine. Makes me sick the level of condescension which is only outdone by how (bleep) tone deaf they are. |
This is another narrative that I don't get.
When you go through school, what do they tell you? Study hard, work hard and you'll be successful. Conversely, they're always warning you "if you don't want to work at McDonalds for the rest of your life, then you have to stay in school!"
When it plays out exactly how it was prophesied and forwarned, then the narrative switches to:
the poor working class vs. "the smug elitist in their multi milliion dollar house bragging about their vacations and the vintage of their wine." |
While what you say is true, for better or for worse that was the difference maker in how this dog and pony show played out. Ignoring it is going to propagate the same results in 2020. There is obvious hyperbole in my statement but facts are facts. A tragically flawed candidate was rolled out (who loss to a relative newcomer in 2008 if that needed reminding) by a comically out of touch establishment and the masses were expecting to be good little children and do as they're told and vote for her. Not sure tbh what your point is as it seems to thoroughly miss the intent of my post. |
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The Brain
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | The Brain wrote: | | Approx 220 million people in America don't vote. That is a lot of people not to like, hah. I believe people dont vote because it doesnt matter. Pretty much true if you really think about it. |
There are people that don't vote because they are under 18, but there is also a portion of the population that is incarcerated or don't want to participate in the process. Also there is a significant number of people who can't vote because they have a medical condition. |
ah, thats true. Forgot about that.
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Halflife
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| He's put his money, career risk, himself, family, life on the line. That is far greater and more impactful to his cause than his vote |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | He's put his money, career risk, himself, family, life on the line. That is far greater and more impactful to his cause than his vote |
His cause is about change.
His solution has been:
1) kneeling to create awareness that change is necessary
2) protesting for change
3) donating money to the right organizations that will help facilitate and advance this change.
He doesn't see voting as a solution to this change that he is seeking. This is where people disagree with him.
kneeling; protesting; raising awareness; these are all solutions where you are pleading for others to do something.
Please hear me. Please understand my plight. Please make some changes.
Voting is the one form where you have the power to enact changes. You are not pleading to anyone. They are pleading to you. Please vote for me. I will enact changes for you....
One vote might not make a difference; but if you can get all your people to vote as one, that is pretty strong.
These organizations that he's donating his money to, what are they doing with that money?
Some of it might go to lobbying for more favorable laws; or supporting government officials that understand their plight.
His message, his cause can only be helped by the power of the vote. Sadly, he doesn't see how voting can help his cause.
I don't think everybody down with the cause views it the same way as he does.
If he feels it's not worth it to vote because none of the candidates will enact changes, then what's the point of kneeling to raise awareness?
Here's an example of how voting can enact changes relevant to his cause. His platform is about oppression of people of color in America, i.e. police brutality w/o consequences. How do you enact changes? Changes start at the top.
Police chiefs are appointed by a government entity such as the mayor, city manager, etc. Sheriffs on the other hand are elected — appointed by the voters of their counties.
That's all a part of the voting system. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | He's put his money, career risk, himself, family, life on the line. That is far greater and more impactful to his cause than his vote |
His cause is about change.
His solution has been:
1) kneeling to create awareness that change is necessary
2) protesting for change
3) donating money to the right organizations that will help facilitate and advance this change.
He doesn't see voting as a solution to this change that he is seeking. This is where people disagree with him.. |
I dislike CK immensely for several reasons. I also find his whole protest thing to be pretty self serving. But your comment is spot on. The issue of police shootings is not going to be solved by voting for a President.
The solution to reducing the number of police shootings resides at the local level.
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