Colin Kaepernick - Update pg 21, settlement agreed to
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:22 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
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I've lost all respect for Kaepernick, he didn't vote. I didn't like the vehicle he used to protest, I detest his reasons for not voting. He disrespected Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Bayard Rustin, to name a few.

I have gotten off the bus. CK is a AH. He can GTH.
I can't stand when people go this route when people CHOOSE not to vote. "he disrespected his ancestors who fault for those rights."

You guys forget what a right is. it's the right to do it or not to do it. without the right of Yes or NO, its not a right and its being forced upon you. It doesn't matter how you personally feel about people voting or not. Never throw the ancestors fought for you card out there. That is completely incorrect thing to say. I would say the same thing to one of those ancestors that are still alive and believe what you believe.

the Right to Vote for minority groups simply means you are now eligible to vote. No where does it mean you have to go out and vote as a minority. same goes for women and or non minority group men. when it comes to voting.

as for him not voting upsetting you. It would be one thing for him to just say "i dont vote" and to have no reason why other than laziness. But if the guy tells you why he wasnt going to vote for hilary or trump. Then that's his choice. Sorry I have to say this to my fellow americans. You can't be upset when everyone isnt on the 2 party bus. And yes, i know you could write someone in or choose jill or gary which we know would not win since most people probably still believe they HAVE TO vote for one of the 2 main parties.

Make the voting system better and let's stop being pushed to believe we can only choose these 2 sides. For all we know he wanted bernie and we all now know officially how the DNC was conspiring to make darn sure that bernie never got a fair shake.

If i believe both choices are horrible choices i do not have to choose the lesser of two evils. Lol at choosing beteween michael myers or jason vorhees.

If you are kap and you're already not standing for the anthem all due to issues you have with black lives not mattering to america. When you have the information on what the clintons have done to the african american community over the years. Shoot, what they have done to haitians (blacks) with that charity. Why in the world would you vote for hilary? You wouldn't, assuming you feel the way kap feels. Hearing the stuff trump has said about all minority groups, why would you vote for trump if you have taken that stand that kap has? You wouldn't. So you're left making a symbolic vote as a write in choice or a green party/libertarian party choice.

TO make it simple. If i know you're not going to help my cause why on earth would I vote for either of you? That would be silly.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:33 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LINK

I've lost all respect for Kaepernick, he didn't vote. I didn't like the vehicle he used to protest, I detest his reasons for not voting. He disrespected Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Bayard Rustin, to name a few.

I have gotten off the bus. CK is a AH. He can GTH.
I can't stand when people go this route when people CHOOSE not to vote. "he disrespected his ancestors who fault for those rights."

You guys forget what a right is. it's the right to do it or not to do it. without the right of Yes or NO, its not a right and its being forced upon you. It doesn't matter how you personally feel about people voting or not. Never throw the ancestors fought for you card out there. That is completely incorrect thing to say. I would say the same thing to one of those ancestors that are still alive and believe what you believe.

the Right to Vote for minority groups simply means you are now eligible to vote. No where does it mean you have to go out and vote as a minority. same goes for women and or non minority group men. when it comes to voting.


I agree that the right to vote is equal to the right not to vote. While voting is the systematic action to make change, there is nothing that says an individual must believe voting is the optimal course to create change.

I believe voting is the optimal method to create change...but that is just a personal opinion, not a standard to judge others.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:34 am    Post subject:

having lived in a country that vote don't matter, American democracy can be taken for granted sometimes
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:50 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LINK

I've lost all respect for Kaepernick, he didn't vote. I didn't like the vehicle he used to protest, I detest his reasons for not voting. He disrespected Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Bayard Rustin, to name a few.

I have gotten off the bus. CK is a AH. He can GTH.
I can't stand when people go this route when people CHOOSE not to vote. "he disrespected his ancestors who fault for those rights."

You guys forget what a right is. it's the right to do it or not to do it. without the right of Yes or NO, its not a right and its being forced upon you. It doesn't matter how you personally feel about people voting or not. Never throw the ancestors fought for you card out there. That is completely incorrect thing to say. I would say the same thing to one of those ancestors that are still alive and believe what you believe.

the Right to Vote for minority groups simply means you are now eligible to vote. No where does it mean you have to go out and vote as a minority. same goes for women and or non minority group men. when it comes to voting.


I agree that the right to vote is equal to the right not to vote. While voting is the systematic action to make change, there is nothing that says an individual must believe voting is the optimal course to create change.

I believe voting is the optimal method to create change...but that is just a personal opinion, not a standard to judge others.
I'm with you on that it can create change.

But here's the kicker. it wont create change if the choices you have wont change it for you.

This is the part that certain groups dont understand or they get but try to act like they dont understand to continue doing what they are doing. It's either one or the other.

A no vote is also a vote to say "i didn't show up for either of you idiots."

If american politicians running for president dont find it sad that they have such a low when you look at how many people are eligible to vote. Shame on them. But that no vote is a vote. You know how we know this? Because we have the media and polling. You see what happened when the votes were finally tallied? All sorts of data popped up on your news feeds/internet/Tv's. It showed you who voted for who and who didn't vote for either.

People think voting is like taking that survey that asks you "did you find it easy to complete this online form, if not why not?" That's not how voting works. If it did, that would be great. That's how it works when you speak to your representatives currently in office. You tell what you like and/or dislike so perhaps they can make a change. Voting for the most part is to choose a person and their ideas. If you are not liking their ideas one bit why would you vote? Or if you know due to past/present experience that nothing has changed in a certain area you feel strongly about, no matter who has been in office. Then again, why would you keep voting?

At some point don't you as a citizen have to take a stand and say I'm no longer going to be apart of this charade?

See what other people have to realize is Kap thinks voting as the way it has turned out in regards to the oppression of black people in america, doesn't really stop said oppression. If he believes that, why vote? Unless he believes one of these candidates will usher in change that has never been ushered in before (in his mind.)

People get mad at kap for not voting because they are coming from their own opinions of the system and how it has worked for them in certain ways. If you're white, odds are you're mad as hell at kap for not voting because guess what, odds are you have never felt as oppressed as a black person in america. So in your mind you've seen lots of change for the better in certain circumstances. and as a black person that votes under the idea "my ancestors fought for my right to vote so i'm voting" or "I think a lot of change has occurred for the better when it comes to the oppression of black people." then yes you will be mad at kap too. But if you understand where kap is coming from, then their's no reason to be mad at the guy even if you still voted.

Americans in general need to stop beating up on people when they tell them "i know longer believe in the system." Especially oppressed groups that have seen people try time and time again to stop the oppression of said groups yet the oppression continues just in a different way.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:00 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
having lived in a country that vote don't matter, American democracy can be taken for granted sometimes


People not voting got them the results this election cycle, it was a rude wake up call for those people. They are going to learn a very tough civics lesson in real life and not in the books for the next 4 years.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:08 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
having lived in a country that vote don't matter, American democracy can be taken for granted sometimes
This is true. But in kap's stance I dont think he's taking it for granted. In his mind it hasnt stopped the oppression of black people. So why play the game?

Some say but wait, blacks are not being hung anymore. True..for the most part. Yet blacks are being shot and killed that are unarmed and those that have done the shooting are going home with paid leaves of absence and not getting jail time for the most part. While it was all caught on tape to boot.
So some think hung vs shot..lets see.. still dead. Same same.

1+1=2
2+0=2

same same.

Some will say but blacks are no longer slaves. True..for the most part. Until you realize how many blacks are unethically profiled and put into positions where they are tossed in jail vs the majority of the country dont have to deal with that kind of situation at the same alarming rate. If you're tossing people in jail for literally nothing or almost nothing(because you would not toss nearly as many percentages of whites in jail for the same infraction.) then you do the math. They have these people in jail working on behalf of other companies, some major. Getting paid well below minimum wage. or if you go back and do your homework, you will realize that was all be design after slavery. To start jailing blacks and to once again use them for free or close to free labor. Sounds like slavery to me. 1+1=2 2+0=2
same...same

If a black person looks at the numbers and he/she notices that no matter who's in office it shows blacks unemployment rate double that of whites. Some may start to think, "hmmmm. what equality did my ancestors fight for again?" Oh thats right they fought for a black person to be able to ride on the front of the bus. but wait now blacks can sit anywhere on the bus. When in most cases you wont see white's on those buses since they can afford cars instead.

Research has shown black names on a resume wont get read. Black voices over the phone wont get the interview nearly as much as whites. I've seen a study that showed blacks with no criminal record only have an equal chance of being hired to white ex-cons. So you're saying blacks are now equal to....ex con whites? Well I guess that's a step up from 2/3 of a man.


are you starting to see how this thing is working in the mind of a person like Kap?


This is what kap said,
Quote:
"I've been very disconnected from the systematic oppression as a whole," Kaepernick said, according to ESPN. "So, for me, it's another face that's going to be the face of that system of oppression.”

Kaepernick added that he “really didn’t pay too close of attention” to the election and believed that none of the candidates could change a system that “oppresses people of color.”

He added: "To me, it didn't really matter who went in there. The system still remains intact that oppresses people of color."
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:10 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
governator wrote:
having lived in a country that vote don't matter, American democracy can be taken for granted sometimes


People not voting got them the results this election cycle, it was a rude wake up call for those people. They are going to learn a very tough civics lesson in real life and not in the books for the next 4 years.
What lesson did the people learn that wanted to vote for bernie sanders? That the DNC cheated him out of a shot?

People who voted, I hope and pray they all knew what they were voting for on either side. But i know that's not the case with MOST voters. Most voters are uninformed.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:18 am    Post subject:

I think it is time we just ignored this self-involved tool.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:31 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
governator wrote:
having lived in a country that vote don't matter, American democracy can be taken for granted sometimes


People not voting got them the results this election cycle, it was a rude wake up call for those people. They are going to learn a very tough civics lesson in real life and not in the books for the next 4 years.
What lesson did the people learn that wanted to vote for bernie sanders? That the DNC cheated him out of a shot?

People who voted, I hope and pray they all knew what they were voting for on either side. But i know that's not the case with MOST voters. Most voters are uninformed.


I don't disagree with you on that. I think what they did to Bernie Sanders turned them off to the general election. That doesn't mean there wasn't something at stake the rest of the ticket downballot. The fact that the Democrats didn't win enough seats in the House or Senate means that they will remain the minority party. I get that Presidential power changes from Republicans to Democrats every couple of election cycles.....but there aren't many times in history that they have full control of the legislative branch and executive branch like they do now. Plus they have the opportunity to change the makeup of the judicial branch with them in power for the next 4 years.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:22 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:

Quote:
I can't stand when people go this route when people CHOOSE not to vote. "he disrespected his ancestors who fault for those rights."


Kaepernick has the right not to vote. I have the right to not respect him for it.

Billie Holiday's "Strange Fruit" resonates in my mind. Visions of Emmett Till sadden me. I'm Black, those things I feel. I don't begrudge anyone their right to feel differently. It's their right, as it is mine, to feel independently.

Voting is not only about choosing a President. There are measures on the ballot that address things he complained about. In California Kamala Harris, a soldier for his rights, was on the ballot. She won her Senate seat without him.

Measures were on the ballot to improve schools, other measures that would benefit minorities, things he said he wants to do.

I voted Hillary because I think she's better qualified. She lost so I have to live with the decision made by the country. If I hadn't gone to the polls IMM I wouldn't have the right to complain.

Quote:
But if the guy tells you why he wasnt going to vote for hilary or trump. Then that's his choice. Sorry I have to say this to my fellow americans


If I hadn't voted for Hillary or Donald I still would have voted. I'm not so shallow as to think voting is only to choose a leader. Voting encompasses so much more.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:21 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
governator wrote:
having lived in a country that vote don't matter, American democracy can be taken for granted sometimes
This is true. But in kap's stance I dont think he's taking it for granted. In his mind it hasnt stopped the oppression of black people. So why play the game?

Some say but wait, blacks are not being hung anymore. True..for the most part. Yet blacks are being shot and killed that are unarmed and those that have done the shooting are going home with paid leaves of absence and not getting jail time for the most part. While it was all caught on tape to boot.
So some think hung vs shot..lets see.. still dead. Same same.

1+1=2
2+0=2

same same.

Some will say but blacks are no longer slaves. True..for the most part. Until you realize how many blacks are unethically profiled and put into positions where they are tossed in jail vs the majority of the country dont have to deal with that kind of situation at the same alarming rate. If you're tossing people in jail for literally nothing or almost nothing(because you would not toss nearly as many percentages of whites in jail for the same infraction.) then you do the math. They have these people in jail working on behalf of other companies, some major. Getting paid well below minimum wage. or if you go back and do your homework, you will realize that was all be design after slavery. To start jailing blacks and to once again use them for free or close to free labor. Sounds like slavery to me. 1+1=2 2+0=2
same...same

If a black person looks at the numbers and he/she notices that no matter who's in office it shows blacks unemployment rate double that of whites. Some may start to think, "hmmmm. what equality did my ancestors fight for again?" Oh thats right they fought for a black person to be able to ride on the front of the bus. but wait now blacks can sit anywhere on the bus. When in most cases you wont see white's on those buses since they can afford cars instead.

Research has shown black names on a resume wont get read. Black voices over the phone wont get the interview nearly as much as whites. I've seen a study that showed blacks with no criminal record only have an equal chance of being hired to white ex-cons. So you're saying blacks are now equal to....ex con whites? Well I guess that's a step up from 2/3 of a man.


are you starting to see how this thing is working in the mind of a person like Kap?


This is what kap said,
Quote:
"I've been very disconnected from the systematic oppression as a whole," Kaepernick said, according to ESPN. "So, for me, it's another face that's going to be the face of that system of oppression.”

Kaepernick added that he “really didn’t pay too close of attention” to the election and believed that none of the candidates could change a system that “oppresses people of color.”

He added: "To me, it didn't really matter who went in there. The system still remains intact that oppresses people of color."


I'll give you an analogy.

We as Lakers fans, what's our "cause"? We want to make the Lakers great again.

Our President (owner) is Jim Buss. Last year, his approval rating was quite low. It's better this year because things turned out ok. So let's just say this is last year.

Now think of a worse owner than Jim Buss, probably Frank McCourt or Al Davis. Both were horrible towards the end of their ownership.

Let's say we as fans get to vote for the next owner of the Lakers.

We don't get to pick the candidates though.

It's either Jim Buss, Frank McCourt or Al Davis.

It's going to be either one of those 3.

Do you vote?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:45 pm    Post subject:

He sounds like someone who got radicalized watching a youtube video or something.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:18 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
I think it is time we just ignored this self-involved tool.


Amen
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:24 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
governator wrote:
having lived in a country that vote don't matter, American democracy can be taken for granted sometimes
This is true. But in kap's stance I dont think he's taking it for granted. In his mind it hasnt stopped the oppression of black people. So why play the game?

Some say but wait, blacks are not being hung anymore. True..for the most part. Yet blacks are being shot and killed that are unarmed and those that have done the shooting are going home with paid leaves of absence and not getting jail time for the most part. While it was all caught on tape to boot.
So some think hung vs shot..lets see.. still dead. Same same.

1+1=2
2+0=2

same same.

Some will say but blacks are no longer slaves. True..for the most part. Until you realize how many blacks are unethically profiled and put into positions where they are tossed in jail vs the majority of the country dont have to deal with that kind of situation at the same alarming rate. If you're tossing people in jail for literally nothing or almost nothing(because you would not toss nearly as many percentages of whites in jail for the same infraction.) then you do the math. They have these people in jail working on behalf of other companies, some major. Getting paid well below minimum wage. or if you go back and do your homework, you will realize that was all be design after slavery. To start jailing blacks and to once again use them for free or close to free labor. Sounds like slavery to me. 1+1=2 2+0=2
same...same

If a black person looks at the numbers and he/she notices that no matter who's in office it shows blacks unemployment rate double that of whites. Some may start to think, "hmmmm. what equality did my ancestors fight for again?" Oh thats right they fought for a black person to be able to ride on the front of the bus. but wait now blacks can sit anywhere on the bus. When in most cases you wont see white's on those buses since they can afford cars instead.

Research has shown black names on a resume wont get read. Black voices over the phone wont get the interview nearly as much as whites. I've seen a study that showed blacks with no criminal record only have an equal chance of being hired to white ex-cons. So you're saying blacks are now equal to....ex con whites? Well I guess that's a step up from 2/3 of a man.


are you starting to see how this thing is working in the mind of a person like Kap?


This is what kap said,
Quote:
"I've been very disconnected from the systematic oppression as a whole," Kaepernick said, according to ESPN. "So, for me, it's another face that's going to be the face of that system of oppression.”

Kaepernick added that he “really didn’t pay too close of attention” to the election and believed that none of the candidates could change a system that “oppresses people of color.”

He added: "To me, it didn't really matter who went in there. The system still remains intact that oppresses people of color."


valid points. I've stated couple pages back that I think the issue of his protest regarding african americans in USA is legit but I've stated also that I don't agree with his vehicle of doing it, I respect the flag. Although it's legal to not salute/even burn the flag, it doesn't mean I have to respect that chosen method of protest. It feels like protesting US flag is almost equating it to confederacy flag, while both has some oppression history in their chapters, US flag also represent freedom in its current form.
Regarding voting, all I'm saying is that the opportunity to have your vote counted/actually means something is personally a great priviledge to have. I'm not talking about just the presidential vote but also the down ballots. There's votes picking the next sherriffs and school boards, things that might help Kapernaeick's cause.
I guess both his decision to kneel on flag and not to vote are his rights but it is truly a priviledge to be able to do both
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:54 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:

Quote:
I'm not talking about just the presidential vote but also the down ballots. There's votes picking the next sherriffs and school boards, things that might help Kapernaeick's cause.
I guess both his decision to kneel on flag and not to vote are his rights but it is truly a priviledge to be able to do both

That's my problem with Kaepernick not voting. To pen the description of another poster, he's self involved. His not voting is dismissive of the down ballot. Had I not voted for Hillary or Donald I still would have voted yes on 64 (being facetious)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:08 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
governator wrote:

Quote:
I'm not talking about just the presidential vote but also the down ballots. There's votes picking the next sherriffs and school boards, things that might help Kapernaeick's cause.
I guess both his decision to kneel on flag and not to vote are his rights but it is truly a priviledge to be able to do both

That's my problem with Kaepernick not voting. To pen the description of another poster, he's self involved. His not voting is dismissive of the down ballot. Had I not voted for Hillary or Donald I still would have voted yes on 64 (being facetious)


Did he say he didn't vote down ballot, or was that something you just completely made up?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:19 pm    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
jodeke wrote:
governator wrote:

Quote:
I'm not talking about just the presidential vote but also the down ballots. There's votes picking the next sherriffs and school boards, things that might help Kapernaeick's cause.
I guess both his decision to kneel on flag and not to vote are his rights but it is truly a priviledge to be able to do both

That's my problem with Kaepernick not voting. To pen the description of another poster, he's self involved. His not voting is dismissive of the down ballot. Had I not voted for Hillary or Donald I still would have voted yes on 64 (being facetious)


Did he say he didn't vote down ballot, or was that something you just completely made up?

LINK
Quote:

After saying last week that the outcome of the election "didn't really matter" to him, Kaepernick said Sunday that he didn't want to endorse the process by participating.

What do you think he means by not participating?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:29 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
jodeke wrote:
governator wrote:

Quote:
I'm not talking about just the presidential vote but also the down ballots. There's votes picking the next sherriffs and school boards, things that might help Kapernaeick's cause.
I guess both his decision to kneel on flag and not to vote are his rights but it is truly a priviledge to be able to do both

That's my problem with Kaepernick not voting. To pen the description of another poster, he's self involved. His not voting is dismissive of the down ballot. Had I not voted for Hillary or Donald I still would have voted yes on 64 (being facetious)


Did he say he didn't vote down ballot, or was that something you just completely made up?

LINK
Quote:

After saying last week that the outcome of the election "didn't really matter" to him, Kaepernick said Sunday that he didn't want to endorse the process by participating.

What do you think he means by not participating?


The presidential election.

If you're unsure of whether he voted down ballot, then be unsure of it. Don't assume and voice displeasure of facts unknown.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:57 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
If you are kap and you're already not standing for the anthem all due to issues you have with black lives not mattering to america. When you have the information on what the clintons have done to the african american community over the years. Shoot, what they have done to haitians (blacks) with that charity. Why in the world would you vote for hilary? You wouldn't, assuming you feel the way kap feels. Hearing the stuff trump has said about all minority groups, why would you vote for trump if you have taken that stand that kap has? You wouldn't. So you're left making a symbolic vote as a write in choice or a green party/libertarian party choice.

TO make it simple. If i know you're not going to help my cause why on earth would I vote for either of you? That would be silly.


To go along with that. Kap's problem is the lack of police accountability. Lack of accountability for those in power.

Hillary Clinton is a manifestation of that very thing. She has no accountability. Not only has this person skated what would have surely ended the career of less "prominent" individuals, and possibly landed them in prison, she had the nerve to believe she should be President despite that. That's exactly the problem Kaepernick has with police. They commit crimes. They break the law. They lie to cover their asses. They keep their positions and rise through the ranks.

That's Hillary Clinton.

And you want to call him a hypocrite for not voting for that? I don't understand how anyone can say that with a straight face. It makes no sense. But I guess that's politics?

Quote:
We don't get to pick the candidates though.

It's either Jim Buss, Frank McCourt or Al Davis.


That's like saying choose between MDA and Mike Dunleavy. The correct answer is - you should have hired Phil when you had the chance.

Better analogy. You have a wildly successful TV show, but the show's quality is horrible. You want the show to be better. You want the showrunners to hire better writers. Seek out better directors.

Season 2 of this show is going to be made regardless of whether you watch or not. It's already in the works. So why not just watch the damn show?

So let's say you just continue watching the show because of that backwards logic. Nothing changes. Everything stays the same. Season 3 will now suck too.

If you had instead chosen to not watch it, the ratings would have taken a hit. Less ratings is less money. Less money causes people that so desperately want your money to seek to increase that figure. Which makes them suddenly open their ears and listen. Had you kept watching, the ratings staying the same, money being made, your complaints about the show's quality would have fallen on deaf ears. They only care about the money. The parties only care about your vote. And once you give that to them, every complaint you make is irrelevant.

Abstaining should help. It should help. Like someone said, it's a vote of no-confidence. It's up to people to not be dismissive. When you get people blaming non-voters for Hillary's loss, well, that's equivalent to blaming the show's drop in ratings on the people that chose to stop watching. While technically true, it's ignoring the actual problem. The people in charge willfully put out an inferior product. That should be the focus.

Do you believe the people 50 years from now would appreciate the people of today making the two-party system yield better candidates? I know I would have appreciated the people of 50 years ago doing something about the system so people like Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton could never in a million years be considered for President. I would have appreciated that very much. The "lesser of two evils" voters are perpetuators of stagnation and status quo. If the system deems it acceptable to choose flawed candidates over the good ones, then you simply say (bleep) you to the system and continue to call for change. Participation is perpetuation.

Some people like pretend they care about the future while damning the people of the future to fates similar to our own. We should have been asking ourselves how we let Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump be the primary candidates for Presidency, and made efforts to ensure that it would never happen again. Instead, we have yet again proven to be selfish, while thinking we altruistic.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:48 pm    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
jodeke wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
jodeke wrote:
governator wrote:

Quote:
I'm not talking about just the presidential vote but also the down ballots. There's votes picking the next sherriffs and school boards, things that might help Kapernaeick's cause.
I guess both his decision to kneel on flag and not to vote are his rights but it is truly a priviledge to be able to do both

That's my problem with Kaepernick not voting. To pen the description of another poster, he's self involved. His not voting is dismissive of the down ballot. Had I not voted for Hillary or Donald I still would have voted yes on 64 (being facetious)


Did he say he didn't vote down ballot, or was that something you just completely made up?

LINK
Quote:

After saying last week that the outcome of the election "didn't really matter" to him, Kaepernick said Sunday that he didn't want to endorse the process by participating.

What do you think he means by not participating?


The presidential election.

If you're unsure of whether he voted down ballot, then be unsure of it. Don't assume and voice displeasure of facts unknown.

I own my assumption. I don''t think he went to the polls. If you want to be, to coin a phrase, intellectually dishonest there's no need to continue this conversation.
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:52 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
governator wrote:
having lived in a country that vote don't matter, American democracy can be taken for granted sometimes
This is true. But in kap's stance I dont think he's taking it for granted. In his mind it hasnt stopped the oppression of black people. So why play the game?

Some say but wait, blacks are not being hung anymore. True..for the most part. Yet blacks are being shot and killed that are unarmed and those that have done the shooting are going home with paid leaves of absence and not getting jail time for the most part. While it was all caught on tape to boot.
So some think hung vs shot..lets see.. still dead. Same same.

1+1=2
2+0=2

same same.

Some will say but blacks are no longer slaves. True..for the most part. Until you realize how many blacks are unethically profiled and put into positions where they are tossed in jail vs the majority of the country dont have to deal with that kind of situation at the same alarming rate. If you're tossing people in jail for literally nothing or almost nothing(because you would not toss nearly as many percentages of whites in jail for the same infraction.) then you do the math. They have these people in jail working on behalf of other companies, some major. Getting paid well below minimum wage. or if you go back and do your homework, you will realize that was all be design after slavery. To start jailing blacks and to once again use them for free or close to free labor. Sounds like slavery to me. 1+1=2 2+0=2
same...same

If a black person looks at the numbers and he/she notices that no matter who's in office it shows blacks unemployment rate double that of whites. Some may start to think, "hmmmm. what equality did my ancestors fight for again?" Oh thats right they fought for a black person to be able to ride on the front of the bus. but wait now blacks can sit anywhere on the bus. When in most cases you wont see white's on those buses since they can afford cars instead.

Research has shown black names on a resume wont get read. Black voices over the phone wont get the interview nearly as much as whites. I've seen a study that showed blacks with no criminal record only have an equal chance of being hired to white ex-cons. So you're saying blacks are now equal to....ex con whites? Well I guess that's a step up from 2/3 of a man.


are you starting to see how this thing is working in the mind of a person like Kap?


This is what kap said,
Quote:
"I've been very disconnected from the systematic oppression as a whole," Kaepernick said, according to ESPN. "So, for me, it's another face that's going to be the face of that system of oppression.”

Kaepernick added that he “really didn’t pay too close of attention” to the election and believed that none of the candidates could change a system that “oppresses people of color.”

He added: "To me, it didn't really matter who went in there. The system still remains intact that oppresses people of color."


valid points. I've stated couple pages back that I think the issue of his protest regarding african americans in USA is legit but I've stated also that I don't agree with his vehicle of doing it, I respect the flag. Although it's legal to not salute/even burn the flag, it doesn't mean I have to respect that chosen method of protest. It feels like protesting US flag is almost equating it to confederacy flag, while both has some oppression history in their chapters, US flag also represent freedom in its current form.
Regarding voting, all I'm saying is that the opportunity to have your vote counted/actually means something is personally a great priviledge to have. I'm not talking about just the presidential vote but also the down ballots. There's votes picking the next sherriffs and school boards, things that might help Kapernaeick's cause.
I guess both his decision to kneel on flag and not to vote are his rights but it is truly a priviledge to be able to do both

I can't say i disagree with you on the privilege part. The issue with people being upset with kap has a lot to do with people not putting their feet in the shoes of a minority person who believes the system has not only failed him and those like him but keeps doing so intentionally. If that is the case why would you participate in the voting process? You wouldn't. People keep answering this question from their view point. it's not you who are not standing for the anthem/flag etc. It's him. It's not you not voting, it's him. Why is he choosing this path? He told you a few times why. People brush over his answer because it hurts people who believe in the system to see someone not believe in the system.

It's the same issue the "black community" overall has with police(generally speaking.) vs what a lot of the majority whites at least in the recent past has not had the same issues with Trusting the police. Now more and more we are all having issues with the police in general I'll grant you that. But in the recent past, Whites were by far more likely to assume that if a police person did something, they did so out of great ethical judgement. If you would ask a random group of black people that same question you would get answers that showed they felt the police at times were being unethical in their behavior.

Blacks on average do not TRUST the justice SYSTEM. Why? Because it has failed them time and time again even when they participated within the system/society properly.

Kap is not to be seen as Kap when we have this discussion. Kap symbolizes a plight among black people. Do you guys/gals that are non black understand said plight? Can you at the very least wholeheartedly sympathize with said plight?
If the answer is yes, then you would not be bothered by Kap not standing, You would not be bothered by Kap not voting.

You said down ticket votes. Which i agree with has more of an effect on you personally then the big election with the president. TO be honest more people need to be more involved in that one perhaps more so than the presidents election. Because you feel it immediately when it's a local election or proposition on the ballot. With that said.

A few votes ago, Los angeles had a chance to vote for a new sheriff. Guess what our choices were? a Bunch of people who have already been within the sheriff system. The top Sheriff was recently brought up on charges and so were people beneath his command. Word on the street was the 2nd in command to him and others were also involved in the scandal. These people were all on the ballot. These are the kinds of choices you are given. Vote for the devil with red hair or the devil with blue hair. Why should I care if it's the devil regardless?

And even if you got lucky and found someone on that list that wasn't apart of the old sheriff's group. Then you vote for a new guy and you find out he treats people that look like you just as bad as or worse than the former sheriff treated you.

We're talking about Systemic problems people. Not one individual thats the president. Systemic issues run deep. So deep that even on the local level you have people up for votes that are also apart of said system and they wont do anything crazy or drastic to change it for the betterment of ALL people which includes black people/brown people etc.

And these replies are coming from me a black person who actually votes. You guys shouldn't be worried about Kap not voting you should be asking a person like me. Why I still even vote.
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USCandLakers
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:55 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
jodeke wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
jodeke wrote:
governator wrote:

Quote:
I'm not talking about just the presidential vote but also the down ballots. There's votes picking the next sherriffs and school boards, things that might help Kapernaeick's cause.
I guess both his decision to kneel on flag and not to vote are his rights but it is truly a priviledge to be able to do both

That's my problem with Kaepernick not voting. To pen the description of another poster, he's self involved. His not voting is dismissive of the down ballot. Had I not voted for Hillary or Donald I still would have voted yes on 64 (being facetious)


Did he say he didn't vote down ballot, or was that something you just completely made up?

LINK
Quote:

After saying last week that the outcome of the election "didn't really matter" to him, Kaepernick said Sunday that he didn't want to endorse the process by participating.

What do you think he means by not participating?


The presidential election.

If you're unsure of whether he voted down ballot, then be unsure of it. Don't assume and voice displeasure of facts unknown.

I'm own my assumption. I don''t think he went to the polls. If you want to be, to coin a phrase, intellectually dishonest there's no need to continue this conversation.


If you're going to resort to projection, then you may be correct.
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:55 pm    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
If you are kap and you're already not standing for the anthem all due to issues you have with black lives not mattering to america. When you have the information on what the clintons have done to the african american community over the years. Shoot, what they have done to haitians (blacks) with that charity. Why in the world would you vote for hilary? You wouldn't, assuming you feel the way kap feels. Hearing the stuff trump has said about all minority groups, why would you vote for trump if you have taken that stand that kap has? You wouldn't. So you're left making a symbolic vote as a write in choice or a green party/libertarian party choice.

TO make it simple. If i know you're not going to help my cause why on earth would I vote for either of you? That would be silly.


To go along with that. Kap's problem is the lack of police accountability. Lack of accountability for those in power.

Hillary Clinton is a manifestation of that very thing. She has no accountability. Not only has this person skated what would have surely ended the career of less "prominent" individuals, and possibly landed them in prison, she had the nerve to believe she should be President despite that. That's exactly the problem Kaepernick has with police. They commit crimes. They break the law. They lie to cover their asses. They keep their positions and rise through the ranks.

That's Hillary Clinton.

And you want to call him a hypocrite for not voting for that? I don't understand how anyone can say that with a straight face. It makes no sense. But I guess that's politics?

Quote:
We don't get to pick the candidates though.

It's either Jim Buss, Frank McCourt or Al Davis.


That's like saying choose between MDA and Mike Dunleavy. The correct answer is - you should have hired Phil when you had the chance.

Better analogy. You have a wildly successful TV show, but the show's quality is horrible. You want the show to be better. You want the showrunners to hire better writers. Seek out better directors.

Season 2 of this show is going to be made regardless of whether you watch or not. It's already in the works. So why not just watch the damn show?

So let's say you just continue watching the show because of that backwards logic. Nothing changes. Everything stays the same. Season 3 will now suck too.

If you had instead chosen to not watch it, the ratings would have taken a hit. Less ratings is less money. Less money causes people that so desperately want your money to seek to increase that figure. Which makes them suddenly open their ears and listen. Had you kept watching, the ratings staying the same, money being made, your complaints about the show's quality would have fallen on deaf ears. They only care about the money. The parties only care about your vote. And once you give that to them, every complaint you make is irrelevant.

Abstaining should help. It should help. Like someone said, it's a vote of no-confidence. It's up to people to not be dismissive. When you get people blaming non-voters for Hillary's loss, well, that's equivalent to blaming the show's drop in ratings on the people that chose to stop watching. While technically true, it's ignoring the actual problem. The people in charge willfully put out an inferior product. That should be the focus.

Do you believe the people 50 years from now would appreciate the people of today making the two-party system yield better candidates? I know I would have appreciated the people of 50 years ago doing something about the system so people like Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton could never in a million years be considered for President. I would have appreciated that very much. The "lesser of two evils" voters are perpetuators of stagnation and status quo. If the system deems it acceptable to choose flawed candidates over the good ones, then you simply say (bleep) you to the system and continue to call for change. Participation is perpetuation.

Some people like pretend they care about the future while damning the people of the future to fates similar to our own. We should have been asking ourselves how we let Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump be the primary candidates for Presidency, and made efforts to ensure that it would never happen again. Instead, we have yet again proven to be selfish, while thinking we altruistic.
Where's the applauds gif.

You said it best with this reply. There's nothing else for me to say.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:57 pm    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
Quote:
We don't get to pick the candidates though.

It's either Jim Buss, Frank McCourt or Al Davis.


That's like saying choose between MDA and Mike Dunleavy. The correct answer is - you should have hired Phil when you had the chance.

Better analogy. You have a wildly successful TV show, but the show's quality is horrible. You want the show to be better. You want the showrunners to hire better writers. Seek out better directors.



That's the whole point of the analogy. Kaepernick did not vote because he feels none of the candidates help his cause.

So, the analogy is, if you feel none of the owners help your cause, would you still vote as a Laker fan?

Cuz for sure, right now, we have no vote as fans.

So, if we had a vote, would you vote even if the choices suck?

Or, you can start w/ this question: would you like to have a vote in who owns the Lakers?

Or, w/ your analogy using D'Antoni & Dunleavy, would you like to have a vote whenever we pick a new coach?
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governator
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:35 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
governator wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
governator wrote:
having lived in a country that vote don't matter, American democracy can be taken for granted sometimes
This is true. But in kap's stance I dont think he's taking it for granted. In his mind it hasnt stopped the oppression of black people. So why play the game?

Some say but wait, blacks are not being hung anymore. True..for the most part. Yet blacks are being shot and killed that are unarmed and those that have done the shooting are going home with paid leaves of absence and not getting jail time for the most part. While it was all caught on tape to boot.
So some think hung vs shot..lets see.. still dead. Same same.

1+1=2
2+0=2

same same.

Some will say but blacks are no longer slaves. True..for the most part. Until you realize how many blacks are unethically profiled and put into positions where they are tossed in jail vs the majority of the country dont have to deal with that kind of situation at the same alarming rate. If you're tossing people in jail for literally nothing or almost nothing(because you would not toss nearly as many percentages of whites in jail for the same infraction.) then you do the math. They have these people in jail working on behalf of other companies, some major. Getting paid well below minimum wage. or if you go back and do your homework, you will realize that was all be design after slavery. To start jailing blacks and to once again use them for free or close to free labor. Sounds like slavery to me. 1+1=2 2+0=2
same...same

If a black person looks at the numbers and he/she notices that no matter who's in office it shows blacks unemployment rate double that of whites. Some may start to think, "hmmmm. what equality did my ancestors fight for again?" Oh thats right they fought for a black person to be able to ride on the front of the bus. but wait now blacks can sit anywhere on the bus. When in most cases you wont see white's on those buses since they can afford cars instead.

Research has shown black names on a resume wont get read. Black voices over the phone wont get the interview nearly as much as whites. I've seen a study that showed blacks with no criminal record only have an equal chance of being hired to white ex-cons. So you're saying blacks are now equal to....ex con whites? Well I guess that's a step up from 2/3 of a man.


are you starting to see how this thing is working in the mind of a person like Kap?


This is what kap said,
Quote:
"I've been very disconnected from the systematic oppression as a whole," Kaepernick said, according to ESPN. "So, for me, it's another face that's going to be the face of that system of oppression.”

Kaepernick added that he “really didn’t pay too close of attention” to the election and believed that none of the candidates could change a system that “oppresses people of color.”

He added: "To me, it didn't really matter who went in there. The system still remains intact that oppresses people of color."


valid points. I've stated couple pages back that I think the issue of his protest regarding african americans in USA is legit but I've stated also that I don't agree with his vehicle of doing it, I respect the flag. Although it's legal to not salute/even burn the flag, it doesn't mean I have to respect that chosen method of protest. It feels like protesting US flag is almost equating it to confederacy flag, while both has some oppression history in their chapters, US flag also represent freedom in its current form.
Regarding voting, all I'm saying is that the opportunity to have your vote counted/actually means something is personally a great priviledge to have. I'm not talking about just the presidential vote but also the down ballots. There's votes picking the next sherriffs and school boards, things that might help Kapernaeick's cause.
I guess both his decision to kneel on flag and not to vote are his rights but it is truly a priviledge to be able to do both

I can't say i disagree with you on the privilege part. The issue with people being upset with kap has a lot to do with people not putting their feet in the shoes of a minority person who believes the system has not only failed him and those like him but keeps doing so intentionally. If that is the case why would you participate in the voting process? You wouldn't. People keep answering this question from their view point. it's not you who are not standing for the anthem/flag etc. It's him. It's not you not voting, it's him. Why is he choosing this path? He told you a few times why. People brush over his answer because it hurts people who believe in the system to see someone not believe in the system.

It's the same issue the "black community" overall has with police(generally speaking.) vs what a lot of the majority whites at least in the recent past has not had the same issues with Trusting the police. Now more and more we are all having issues with the police in general I'll grant you that. But in the recent past, Whites were by far more likely to assume that if a police person did something, they did so out of great ethical judgement. If you would ask a random group of black people that same question you would get answers that showed they felt the police at times were being unethical in their behavior.

Blacks on average do not TRUST the justice SYSTEM. Why? Because it has failed them time and time again even when they participated within the system/society properly.

Kap is not to be seen as Kap when we have this discussion. Kap symbolizes a plight among black people. Do you guys/gals that are non black understand said plight? Can you at the very least wholeheartedly sympathize with said plight?
If the answer is yes, then you would not be bothered by Kap not standing, You would not be bothered by Kap not voting.

You said down ticket votes. Which i agree with has more of an effect on you personally then the big election with the president. TO be honest more people need to be more involved in that one perhaps more so than the presidents election. Because you feel it immediately when it's a local election or proposition on the ballot. With that said.

A few votes ago, Los angeles had a chance to vote for a new sheriff. Guess what our choices were? a Bunch of people who have already been within the sheriff system. The top Sheriff was recently brought up on charges and so were people beneath his command. Word on the street was the 2nd in command to him and others were also involved in the scandal. These people were all on the ballot. These are the kinds of choices you are given. Vote for the devil with red hair or the devil with blue hair. Why should I care if it's the devil regardless?

And even if you got lucky and found someone on that list that wasn't apart of the old sheriff's group. Then you vote for a new guy and you find out he treats people that look like you just as bad as or worse than the former sheriff treated you.

We're talking about Systemic problems people. Not one individual thats the president. Systemic issues run deep. So deep that even on the local level you have people up for votes that are also apart of said system and they wont do anything crazy or drastic to change it for the betterment of ALL people which includes black people/brown people etc.

And these replies are coming from me a black person who actually votes. You guys shouldn't be worried about Kap not voting you should be asking a person like me. Why I still even vote.


I've had exposures, roommates, friends, coworkers who are AA but I'm not gonna pretend I know how it is to live as an African American in USA. I just feel there are other avenues besides the flag protest. I know it's just a symbol but I have military fam members/friends and as an immigrant, just feel so lucky to be here and that flag feels more than just a symbol. Like I said before, I think the issue that Kaepernick is bringing up is legit, we just disagree with his method. As far as voting, I just believe it's such a privilege to have. If the choices are completely unacceptable to you, as you mentioned, all racist candidates for local sheriff election than I understand abstaining or maybe vote a write in. It's certainly will take more than voting to solve. So why do you vote?
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