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Steve007
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 Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | 90% of that loss is on Lincoln Riley.....absolute atrocious play calling in 2nd half.....dude's b-hole got tight, and he choked with poor play call after poor play call. |
They should have gone for it on 4th and 1 in OT. |
Maybe if it was 4th and one ON the 1. But even then you are needlessly putting yourself in a do or die situation. |
Even making the “safe” move and kicking the field goal puts you in a do or die situation. In the 2nd OT the guy had a 27 yarder blocked and college kickers are much worse than pro kickers so it does happen.
For years I’ve felt that football coaches are far too cautious and often play to avoid losing instead of going for the win. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | 90% of that loss is on Lincoln Riley.....absolute atrocious play calling in 2nd half.....dude's b-hole got tight, and he choked with poor play call after poor play call. |
They should have gone for it on 4th and 1 in OT. |
Maybe if it was 4th and one ON the 1. But even then you are needlessly putting yourself in a do or die situation. |
Even making the “safe” move and kicking the field goal puts you in a do or die situation. In the 2nd OT the guy had a 27 yarder blocked and college kickers are much worse than pro kickers so it does happen.
For years I’ve felt that football coaches are far too cautious and often play to avoid losing instead of going for the win. |
Sure, in a purely technical fashion. But odds wise, the play is to get the points on the board. Compared to risk death to simply get a first down? It’s a no brainer. They had the momentum.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Basketball Fan
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Joined: 03 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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I rather see UCF play Alabama than Georgia/Alabama.
They were undefeated and won't get a shot at a title that's ridiculous to me. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Basketball Fan wrote: | I rather see UCF play Alabama than Georgia/Alabama.
They were undefeated and won't get a shot at a title that's ridiculous to me. |
Georgia earned their shot.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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If the Big12 had any sense, they would be in contact with people in Orlando tonight, and deciding which other team to invite along with UCF. I prefer USF, but Memphis, Houston and Cincinnati probably have a similar case. UCF will be loaded with talent again next season, and there is no reason for their program to diminish, especially if they were in a Power 5 conference.
I am not sure how long the Big12 can survive with 10 members while the other "big boys" have 12 & 14. UCF and USF both spent most of this season ranked in the national polls, rank #1 (UCF) and #4 (USF) in university size within Florida (both larger than FSU & Miami), and would provide the Big12 strong footing in the Texas & Florida recruiting regions.
Big 12 West
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU
Big 12 East
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
WVU
UCF
USF |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't hold your breath waiting for playoff expansion.....these schools that feel they might be left out would be better off joining a power 5 conference if they feel they are that good on a consistent year to year basis. Big12 is the one conference that actually needs some more schools in it. Notre Dame is probably the one independent that can get into the national title conversation because they play ranked opponents from the power 5 conferences on a regular basis. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | Going into today, the CFP Committee told us the teams were ranked as follows:
1. Clemson
2. Oklahoma
3. Georgia
4. Alabama
After the games, I think most would rank the teams:
1. Alabama
2. Georgia
3. Oklahoma
4. Clemson |
Clemson vs Alabama game was almost unwatchable, considering the atrocious lack of offense Clemson had....they clearly missed players like Deshaun Watson. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | 90% of that loss is on Lincoln Riley.....absolute atrocious play calling in 2nd half.....dude's b-hole got tight, and he choked with poor play call after poor play call. |
They should have gone for it on 4th and 1 in OT. |
Maybe if it was 4th and one ON the 1. But even then you are needlessly putting yourself in a do or die situation. |
Even making the “safe” move and kicking the field goal puts you in a do or die situation. In the 2nd OT the guy had a 27 yarder blocked and college kickers are much worse than pro kickers so it does happen.
For years I’ve felt that football coaches are far too cautious and often play to avoid losing instead of going for the win. |
Sure, in a purely technical fashion. But odds wise, the play is to get the points on the board. |
I think there was a much better chance they get a first down, score a td and win the game than there was that they are unable to get a yard and lose.
| Quote: | Compared to risk death to simply get a first down?
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I see it as getting one yard so you can put your opponent at a serious risk of death. The last thing Georgia needed was Oklahoma having a new set of downs on the 16 yard line with a chance to win it right there.
| Quote: | | It’s a no brainer. They had the momentum. |
I thought any momentum they had was going to Georgia if they kicked that field. Georgia had an advantage in the next OT because they were getting the ball after the Sooners. Georgia came back to tie the game in the 4th, played better in the second half overall, and didn’t get a td in the first OT but the defense responded by holding Oklahoma to a field goal. IMO the momentum was with them when Oklahoma kicked that field goal. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:20 am Post subject: |
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Looks like Riley seriously thought about going for it before deciding on a field goal.
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:00 am Post subject: |
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^
And it was 4th and slightly less than a yard, too, so I am sure he pondered it. I agree with DMR, though: too much risk in that situation. If you don't get that, it's over. Literally over. Gotta just go with the huge probability that he makes it and re-set your hand in the next OT period. (Also, it's not like OU was owning the line of scrimmage at that point in the game, where they were just running the ball down their throats.) Unfortunately for OU, they seemed to lose the momentum they had regained in the 4th quarter with shoddy play-calling, starting with that 3rd-and-2 option to the short side of the field with about 3:30 left and leading by 7.
I think Oklahoma probably beats Georgia 7 or 8 times out of 10 with the exact same set-up, and kind of think they gave that game away, but that's why they play the games, and Georgia deserves credit for coming back from down 31-14 and then coming back again after losing the lead in the 4th.
I do like Alabama to beat Georgia in the final game. I just think that their defense is better than Georgia's defense, and that Saban will find a way to make life miserable for Fromm. The line isn't out yet, and I know that the game is in Atlanta, but I would still expect 'Bama to be favored by a few points. (EDIT: Apparently the Tide opened as a 4 point favorite.)
Oh, by the way, Clemson's putrid performance last night shows you just how incredible a player Deshaun Watson is/was. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Basketball Fan wrote: | I rather see UCF play Alabama than Georgia/Alabama.
They were undefeated and won't get a shot at a title that's ridiculous to me. |
Naw. UCF played nobody in the regular season. If you're in a Group of 6 conference, Maryland and Austin Peay doesn't cut it as a non-conference schedule. Boise State went through the same thing once. Winning the bowl game is good, but you've got to schedule one of the big boys if you want anyone to take you seriously.
Like it or not, there are a lot of teams in the Power 5 conferences that could have run the table with UCF's schedule. Sure, some of them would have gotten upset along the way, but UCF had some close calls, too. Going undefeated with that schedule gets you the Peach Bowl.
Beating Auburn is nice, just like it was nice when Boise State beat Oklahoma. It's a cool story. But let's not get silly about this. UCF was not one of the four best teams this year. They weren't really one of the top 10 teams, though they'll probably end up ranked there. If UCF wants someone to take them seriously, they need to play Auburn (or whoever) in September or October, not in a meaningless bowl game. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | If the Big12 had any sense, they would be in contact with people in Orlando tonight, and deciding which other team to invite along with UCF. I prefer USF, but Memphis, Houston and Cincinnati probably have a similar case. |
From the Big 12's perspective, none of those schools bring anything to the table. Otherwise, Houston would already be in. It's all about TV ratings and contracts. The school that made sense was BYU, but they seem to be playing their own game. I don't understand the situation with BYU.
I do know that the current TV contracts run out around 2024. There are a lot of people who are expecting another major realignment/consolidation by then. I suspect that the larger schools in the Big 12 (Texas, OU, Kansas) want to avoid getting tied down. I won't be surprised if those schools roll out and the AAC basically rolls into the Big 12. |
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C-BUS LAKERFAN
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | As far as Barrett is concerned, the guy is now the all-time leader in total offense in Big 10 history. He's far from a perfect player, let's be clear, but as college players go, he had a pretty damn good career. |
To be a "legend" at a school like Ohio State, you need something more than empty stats. When he was a freshman, Ohio State won the title, with Cardale Jones at QB. When he was a sophomore, they missed the playoff. When he was a junior, they did not win the conference, but they made the playoff, then got humiliated by Clemson. When he was a senior, they lost two games and missed the playoff. Considering the talent level that Ohio State had over those four years, that's a disappointing return.
And yeah, a lot of the disappointment was due to Barrett. As last night's game showed, he just isn't that good of a QB. |
JT regressed his Sophomore and Junior seasons. Some of it was lack of WR play and a lot of it was coaching. Tom Herman knew how to call a game that catered to JT's strengths. Ed Warrnier and Tim Beck did not do a good job with the offense for 2 years. He showed some improvement with the new staff, but he is just not a great passer. |
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noahp45
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:25 am Post subject: |
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All I know is UCF got cheated they should have been the 4 seed they beat Auburn team that beat Alabama and GA.
Side Note Notre Dame played two SEC teams this year beat one and lost by one to the other. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Look, Auburn wasn't as good as its ranking. They lost 4 games this year. They got hot at a certain time and caught Alabama at the right time. Sure, you can say that they had "quality" losses, and that's fine, but the fact is that they lost 4 times.
I agree with those who are saying that UCF isn't one of the 4 best teams this year. However, they might be one of the 8 best, and in an 8-team playoff, they would have deserved to get in as an undefeated team IMO. Ohio St. looked like a worthy CFP playoff team against USC. Obviously, Alabama showed it was deserving. It could've been #1 Clemson vs. #8 USC/UCF (I'm guessing they would've taken one Pac 12 team over, say, another Big 10 team in Penn St.), #2 Oklahoma vs. #7 UCF/USC, #3 Georgia vs. #6 Wisconsin, and #4 Alabama vs. #5 Ohio St. You'd get 4 extra bowl games earlier in bowl season that would constitute a CFP Quarterfinal, and you'd create far more interest in those games than there already is. Maybe you make the Holiday Bowl a CFP Quarterfinal. The Alamo Bowl. And so on. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| noahp45 wrote: | | All I know is UCF got cheated they should have been the 4 seed they beat Auburn team that beat Alabama and GA. |
Doesn’t work that way (nor should it). Just because one team beat a team that beat a differe team doesn’t mean that the first team is better than those teams they never faced head to head. There are a lot factors that go into why one team beats another in one game. Which is why you can’t take one outcome and over emphasize it in regards to a much bigger picture.
Which was illustrated by the actual playoff outcomes yesterday. The two teams you say should have been bumped are the two teams that WON their playoff games. And the one team that could arguably be the one team that was overmatched was the #1.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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Posts: 52706
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Baker Mayfield told to humble himself
Hear, hear.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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adkindo
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | From the Big 12's perspective, none of those schools bring anything to the table. Otherwise, Houston would already be in. It's all about TV ratings and contracts. The school that made sense was BYU, but they seem to be playing their own game. I don't understand the situation with BYU.
I do know that the current TV contracts run out around 2024. There are a lot of people who are expecting another major realignment/consolidation by then. I suspect that the larger schools in the Big 12 (Texas, OU, Kansas) want to avoid getting tied down. I won't be surprised if those schools roll out and the AAC basically rolls into the Big 12. |
Not sure why you include Kansas as having influence in the Big12....from everything that I am aware of....they clearly have very little. If you recall in the last realignment, and the Big12 schools were thought to be splitting among the Big 10, Pac10 and SEC....it was Kansas, Kansas State and Iowa State that was going to be left out....and had conversations about joining what was then the Big East. The Big12 has a big brother (Texas) and little brother (Oklahoma)....and everyone else is mostly treated as red headed stepchildren in matters of influence. The third most powerful entity in the Big12 is the setting Governor and Legislature of Texas. This always complicates the addition of Houston....as U of Texas never wants them to join, while many in Texas politics support their inclusion.
In regards to adding UCF, USF, Houston or any other team...I think the they "add nothing" line is a little played out. First the current TV contracts with ESPN and FOX Sports(which now may be part of the ESPN acquisition?), the media companies are contractually obligated to increase the contract on a pro rata basis up to 14 teams....so the contract money overall would automatically increase. Claims of not wanting to piss the media companies off for the next contract is a flawed way of thinking....the next contract will pay the "value" of the package on the day it is negotiated....there will be not retro active bonuses for not expanding.
Now to the meat of the of your objections.
--UCF and USF do add quality to the football product. Both programs are on par, or would quickly elevate to the level of any Big12 program outside of Texas and Oklahoma in regards to facilities and competitive roster.
--UCF and USF opens up the door for all Big 12 programs to recruit more heavily in the state of Florida...the #1 or #2 ranked recruiting region in the country. Yes, it matters....WVU once primarily recruited in Florida for decades, but after joining the Big12 have substantially decreased efforts in FL because the Big12 simply does not carry the brand recognition in Florida. It would expand the recruiting footprint from Texas throughout the South to Florida...diminishing the gap currently between Big12 and SEC recruiting land.
--TV markets you say? Tampa-Petersburg is #11 and Orlando-Daytona is #18 nationally! Btw, Houston is #8 (although there is some question if the Big 12 is already saturated in that market) Cincy is #36 and Memphis is #51. In comparison Lawrence and Manhattan do not register, but even of you stretch that into Kansas City, it is only #33....Des Moines/Ames is #69, Waco, Texas is #87, Lubbock, Texas is #147, Austin, Texas is #39, if you consider Norman and Stillwater getting the Oklahoma City market, still only #41, and the largest TV market in the state of WV is Charleston/Huntington...which is several hours from Morgantown and #70....WVU gets a share of Pittsburgh #23 (35 minutes away). I personally would think that nabbing the #11 (USF) and #18 (UCF) television markets would be a freakin coup for the Big12.
--It is also about survival....worse case scenario...Texas and Oklahoma bounce in 2024....are programs like UCF and USF going desire to jump ship to the Big 12 at that point? The Big 12 would be in a much stronger position to remain a conference with UCF and USF in place.....having to grab the best available from the Independents, MWC, or AAC even if they slip in the pecking order.
--Finally...in the last 4 years UCF has 2 major New Years Six Bowl game victories (2014 Fiesta & 2018 Peach)....no current Big12 program can claim more major bowl wins in that time period. UCF will finish this season ranked in the Top 10. USF finished last year ranked in Top 25 and likely will again this season.
Sorry, I think all logic resides with adding UCF and USF to the Big12.....now! |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Just because a school is in a major media market does not mean that it draws TV ratings. This is the issue with U of H. It may be located in Houston, but the TV market is dominated by Texas, TAMU, LSU, and Alabama. I expect that the same is true for UCF, with Florida, FSU, Miami, and probably a few others dominating the TV market.
TV markets aren’t relevant to college sports. Many of the biggest national TV draws are located in college towns. Otherwise, Rice would have gone to the SEC instead of TAMU. (Yeah, I couldn’t resist. We usually get on TV once a year when we play our paycheck game against a big program.) |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Just because a school is in a major media market does not mean that it draws TV ratings. This is the issue with U of H. It may be located in Houston, but the TV market is dominated by Texas, TAMU, LSU, and Alabama. I expect that the same is true for UCF, with Florida, FSU, Miami, and probably a few others dominating the TV market.
TV markets aren’t relevant to college sports. Many of the biggest national TV draws are located in college towns. Otherwise, Rice would have gone to the SEC instead of TAMU. (Yeah, I couldn’t resist. We usually get on TV once a year when we play our paycheck game against a big program.) |
Yep, college sports is different. Most of the schools with big time following are older prestigious schools with a long history in those particular sports. Its nice if they are in a big market, but that isn't exactly a determining factor. Texas has the Longhorn network and they are in the 39th media market. But they are probably the most prestigious state school in Texas. |
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Basketball Fan wrote: | I rather see UCF play Alabama than Georgia/Alabama.
They were undefeated and won't get a shot at a title that's ridiculous to me. |
Georgia earned their shot. |
I'd be cool with UCF/Georgia too.
I just don't want an SEC showdown yet again.
| noahp45 wrote: |
Side Note Notre Dame played two SEC teams this year beat one and lost by one to the other. |
That Georgia loss turned out to be haunting.. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Basketball Fan wrote: | | I just don't want an SEC showdown yet again. |
Can’t argue with that. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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I’d rather see Wisconsin than UCF in a playoff. Wisconsin only has 1 loss, and played in a real conference.
Sure UCF beat Auburn. And Auburn best Alabama and Georgia. But so what? Iowa destroyed Ohio State. Wisconsin destroyed Iowa. So I guess Wisconsin would easily destroy Ohio State. Oh wait a second, Wisconsin lost to Ohio State.
Imagine teams like USC, Wisconsin and Ohio State playing the UCF schedule. They would look much better than they are, and the starters would get a lot more rest when they blow those teams out. I would expect UCF to suffer more injuries trying to play in a big conference. The second best team in their conference was Memphis, who barely beat UCLA in a home game. UCLA had no shot at winning the PAC-12. Utah always seems like a big underdog to win the conference every year since they moved over from the Mountain West. |
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Cutheon
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Basketball Fan wrote: | | I just don't want an SEC showdown yet again. |
Can’t argue with that. |
In a battle between two of the more obnoxious fan bases, I find myself rooting for 'Bama, because at least their superiority complex is actually well-founded. GA fans act like Walker just finished playing. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Arizona fires coach Rich Rodriguez amid misconduct allegations
| Quote: | Rich Rodriguez has been fired at Arizona, the school announced Tuesday night.
Earlier Tuesday, USA Today's Dan Wolken reported Arizona was "weighing whether to fire" Rodriguez with a decision expected soon." The Wildcats lost four of their last five games this season, but the report indicated that an off-field allegation regarding workplace conduct is also a part of the university's decision. |
LINK |
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