Great vid GT! I wonder if Mozgov's contract will pay itself off by virtue of making Russell look like a bona fide star faster than with a worse center (on the PnR and in transition).
Looks like PnR D will be a problem, but how many true 7 footers isn't that true for?
Great vid GT! I wonder if Mozgov's contract will pay itself off by virtue of making Russell look like a bona fide star faster than with a worse center (on the PnR and in transition).
Looks like PnR D will be a problem, but how many true 7 footers isn't that true for?
Yeah, I do think that the guys who we acquired this offseason (including Ingram) all compliment Russell's game really well, he's in a good position to succeed. I think Mozgov will vibe with Clarkson as well.
And yeah, that's a big reason why traditional 5's are seeing less & less floor time. One of the big things that we saw in the playoffs was the impact of bigs who could switch onto the perimeter & do a passable job of defending guards. None of them are traditional, plodding 5's.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29336 Location: La La Land
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:17 pm Post subject:
Nice video GT. About what I expected.
Surprised his spot up game is that bad from a PPP standpoint. But I think DLO with thrive with a hard roller on the Pick and roll moreso than a pick and pop guy anyways.
Glad we have Randle around to help clean the glass while Mozgov boxes out.
Mozgov is surprising nimble in the open court though.
He won't be a shot creator in the traditional sense, but his screen setting should really help our O on and off ball.
Couldn't help but notice the "gravity" Lebron and Kyrie have in those clips. We don't have players who will command that much defensive attention individually. But the ball and player movement in Luke's O should give Mozgov plenty of opportunity to thrive off ball. Mozgov obviously has a knack for exposing the holes in the defense pretty well. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Great vid GT! I wonder if Mozgov's contract will pay itself off by virtue of making Russell look like a bona fide star faster than with a worse center (on the PnR and in transition).
Looks like PnR D will be a problem, but how many true 7 footers isn't that true for?
Yeah, I do think that the guys who we acquired this offseason (including Ingram) all compliment Russell's game really well, he's in a good position to succeed. I think Mozgov will vibe with Clarkson as well.
And yeah, that's a big reason why traditional 5's are seeing less & less floor time. One of the big things that we saw in the playoffs was the impact of bigs who could switch onto the perimeter & do a passable job of defending guards. None of them are traditional, plodding 5's.
Yep, I pointed out Russell specifically because he seems more likely to be that breakout star that attracts free agents back to LA (which may retroactively justify Mozgov's steep salary), but Clarkson definitely will benefit as well.
Question: how does Tarik compare to Moz as a roll man? After so many games of Hibbert running the 5 (and Hill before him), I suspect I might overrate Tarik's screen setting just because he was such a contrast from those other two, lol.
Great vid GT! I wonder if Mozgov's contract will pay itself off by virtue of making Russell look like a bona fide star faster than with a worse center (on the PnR and in transition).
Looks like PnR D will be a problem, but how many true 7 footers isn't that true for?
Yeah, I do think that the guys who we acquired this offseason (including Ingram) all compliment Russell's game really well, he's in a good position to succeed. I think Mozgov will vibe with Clarkson as well.
And yeah, that's a big reason why traditional 5's are seeing less & less floor time. One of the big things that we saw in the playoffs was the impact of bigs who could switch onto the perimeter & do a passable job of defending guards. None of them are traditional, plodding 5's.
Yep, I pointed out Russell specifically because he seems more likely to be that breakout star that attracts free agents back to LA (which may retroactively justify Mozgov's steep salary), but Clarkson definitely will benefit as well.
Question: how does Tarik compare to Moz as a roll man? After so many games of Hibbert running the 5 (and Hill before him), I suspect I might overrate Tarik's screen setting just because he was such a contrast from those other two, lol.
I think Tarik is a comparable roll man to Mozgov, but I think Mozgov's the better screen setter, which of course impacts whether or not you or a teammate are open on the roll.
Nice video GT. About what I expected.
Surprised his spot up game is that bad from a PPP standpoint. But I think DLO with thrive with a hard roller on the Pick and roll moreso than a pick and pop guy anyways.
Glad we have Randle around to help clean the glass while Mozgov boxes out.
Mozgov is surprising nimble in the open court though.
He won't be a shot creator in the traditional sense, but his screen setting should really help our O on and off ball.
Couldn't help but notice the "gravity" Lebron and Kyrie have in those clips. We don't have players who will command that much defensive attention individually. But the ball and player movement in Luke's O should give Mozgov plenty of opportunity to thrive off ball. Mozgov obviously has a knack for exposing the holes in the defense pretty well.
Noticed the same thing. Weird considering his FG% is solid from 16-23. Turns out his 10-16 is <30%, which surely contributed (N.B. he usually is >40% from 10-16 so I have no idea what happened there). Not sure that explains all of it, though. Perhaps he's also turnover prone making the pass off the spot up, or poor at attacking the basket off the spotup?
Last edited by tox on Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Great vid GT! I wonder if Mozgov's contract will pay itself off by virtue of making Russell look like a bona fide star faster than with a worse center (on the PnR and in transition).
Looks like PnR D will be a problem, but how many true 7 footers isn't that true for?
Yeah, I do think that the guys who we acquired this offseason (including Ingram) all compliment Russell's game really well, he's in a good position to succeed. I think Mozgov will vibe with Clarkson as well.
And yeah, that's a big reason why traditional 5's are seeing less & less floor time. One of the big things that we saw in the playoffs was the impact of bigs who could switch onto the perimeter & do a passable job of defending guards. None of them are traditional, plodding 5's.
Yep, I pointed out Russell specifically because he seems more likely to be that breakout star that attracts free agents back to LA (which may retroactively justify Mozgov's steep salary), but Clarkson definitely will benefit as well.
Question: how does Tarik compare to Moz as a roll man? After so many games of Hibbert running the 5 (and Hill before him), I suspect I might overrate Tarik's screen setting just because he was such a contrast from those other two, lol.
I think Tarik is a comparable roll man to Mozgov, but I think Mozgov's the better screen setter, which of course impacts whether or not you or a teammate are open on the roll.
Makes sense! Hopefully Mozgov gives some good lessons to Zubac and Tarik on the art of screen setting. Would help a lot to have someone more mobile like Tarik providing similar screens.
(I already gave up on Yi after your breakdown on him. )
Great vid GT! I wonder if Mozgov's contract will pay itself off by virtue of making Russell look like a bona fide star faster than with a worse center (on the PnR and in transition).
Looks like PnR D will be a problem, but how many true 7 footers isn't that true for?
Yeah, I do think that the guys who we acquired this offseason (including Ingram) all compliment Russell's game really well, he's in a good position to succeed. I think Mozgov will vibe with Clarkson as well.
And yeah, that's a big reason why traditional 5's are seeing less & less floor time. One of the big things that we saw in the playoffs was the impact of bigs who could switch onto the perimeter & do a passable job of defending guards. None of them are traditional, plodding 5's.
What made it possible for GS to play Bogut? Is he just better laterally allowing him defend the PnR better? I don't really recall Bogut showing hard.
What made it possible for GS to play Bogut? Is he just better laterally allowing him defend the PnR better? I don't really recall Bogut showing hard.
I'd say that Bogut's a little more agile than Mozgov, but by & large you're right, they are similar enough to compare. I'd say that it's some combination of the following:
-Mozgov could've been a rotational player, they just had another big (Thompson) who provided a lot of what he provides, while being able to defend the perimeter, and the rest of the time they either went small or wanted a shooter (Frye) at the 5. Him being out of the rotation was more of a matter of taste than capability.
-Few (if any) have the personnel to keep bigs like Bogut & Mozgov out of the game for 48 minutes per game. If either the guard or big are average shooters or worse, you can keep them from being burned.
-If you have a combo where the PG can shoot, but the screening big can't, you can Ice pick & rolls, which neutralizes the guard a bit and gives up the open jumper to the screener. The Clippers see this coverage a lot with CP3 & DeAndre Jordan, although they're really good at running counters to beat Ice.
-Bogut only played 20.7mpg this past season and 23.6mpg the year before, and there were plenty of times where Kerr went a different route, and his inability to defend the perimeter may have played a part in that.
-This might be a bit of a stretch, but you could argue that Cleveland knew they had one team to beat all year (with their EC road being pretty easy), & they saw how problematic it was to have Mozgov on the floor against Golden State in the '15 Finals, so they geared their roster & rotation toward beating them, and Mozgov was the odd man out as a result.
Last edited by GoldenThroat on Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
-This might be a bit of a stretch, but you could argue that Cleveland knew they had one team to beat all year (with their EC road being pretty easy), & they saw how problematic it was to have Mozgov on the floor against Golden State in the '15 Finals, so they geared their roster & rotation toward beating them, and Mozgov was the odd man out as a result.
I don't think that's a stretch at all. It's probably not a stand alone reason but the rematch was always front and center for everything Cleveland was angling for. I'm guessing that had San Antonio made the finals, Mozgov probably spends plenty of time on the floor in the finals.
Nice video btw. I'm concerned that LA's guard Corp isn't good enough defensively to cover for Moz's difficulties where the air is thin. If they had a good physical guard that could force the action to spots the offense was less comfortable I would be more confident Luke could mitigate TM's deficiencies. Gotta get one or two of those guys. _________________ Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:56 pm Post subject:
GoldenThroat wrote:
akk7 wrote:
What made it possible for GS to play Bogut? Is he just better laterally allowing him defend the PnR better? I don't really recall Bogut showing hard.
I'd say that Bogut's a little more agile than Mozgov, but by & large you're right, they are similar enough to compare. I'd say that it's some combination of the following:
-Mozgov could've been a rotational player, they just had another big (Thompson) who provided a lot of what he provides, while being able to defend the perimeter, and the rest of the time they either went small or wanted a shooter (Frye) at the 5. Him being out of the rotation was more of a matter of taste than capability.
-Few (if any) have the personnel to keep bigs like Bogut & Mozgov out of the game for 48 minutes per game. If either the guard or big are average shooters or worse, you can keep them from being burned.
-If you have a combo where the PG can shoot, but the screening big can't, you can Ice pick & rolls, which neutralizes the guard a bit and gives up the open jumper to the screener. The Clippers see this coverage a lot with CP3 & DeAndre Jordan, although they're really good at running counters to beat Ice.
-Bogut only played 20.7mpg this past season and 23.6mpg the year before, and there were plenty of times where Kerr went a different route, and his inability to defend the perimeter may have played a part in that.
-This might be a bit of a stretch, but you could argue that Cleveland knew they had one team to beat all year (with their EC road being pretty easy), & they saw how problematic it was to have Mozgov on the floor against Golden State in the '15 Finals, so they geared their roster & rotation toward beating them, and Mozgov was the odd man out as a result.
Portland did indeed play Bogut out of at least one of their playoff games with Lillard and McCollum, and Ezeli had to come in to save the day with his mobile PnR D. But for the most part, they could cover for Bogut when he was on the floor by having him play safety and switching 1-4 on the other positions, assuming they had someone to hide him on (something that Cleveland may not have been that adept at before the Finals).
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:54 am Post subject:
GoldenThroat wrote:
akk7 wrote:
What made it possible for GS to play Bogut? Is he just better laterally allowing him defend the PnR better? I don't really recall Bogut showing hard.
I'd say that Bogut's a little more agile than Mozgov, but by & large you're right, they are similar enough to compare. I'd say that it's some combination of the following:
-Mozgov could've been a rotational player, they just had another big (Thompson) who provided a lot of what he provides, while being able to defend the perimeter, and the rest of the time they either went small or wanted a shooter (Frye) at the 5. Him being out of the rotation was more of a matter of taste than capability.
-Few (if any) have the personnel to keep bigs like Bogut & Mozgov out of the game for 48 minutes per game. If either the guard or big are average shooters or worse, you can keep them from being burned.
-If you have a combo where the PG can shoot, but the screening big can't, you can Ice pick & rolls, which neutralizes the guard a bit and gives up the open jumper to the screener. The Clippers see this coverage a lot with CP3 & DeAndre Jordan, although they're really good at running counters to beat Ice.
-Bogut only played 20.7mpg this past season and 23.6mpg the year before, and there were plenty of times where Kerr went a different route, and his inability to defend the perimeter may have played a part in that.
-This might be a bit of a stretch, but you could argue that Cleveland knew they had one team to beat all year (with their EC road being pretty easy), & they saw how problematic it was to have Mozgov on the floor against Golden State in the '15 Finals, so they geared their roster & rotation toward beating them, and Mozgov was the odd man out as a result.
Also worth noting that aside from Lebron, all of the other guys who were significant options at 4 don't fit with Mozgov. Love and Frye fit offensively, but are so slow on defense that they need a quicker partner up front, and Thompson works well on d but clogs the spacing with his lack of a shot.
Since Thompson can supply some rim protection but a lot more quickness to get into position to cover for the other guys as well as the pick and roll, he ended up with the gig, playing more Draymond defense than bogut defense, if I can use those two as comparisons.
Fwiw, if bogut doesn't get injured you see a lot more Mozgov in the Finals, since Thompson couldn't deal with his size.
What this means for la is that who is able to do what at 4 will be important. Deng is a real good fit with Mozgov on both ends, and if Nance has even a modest jumper, so does he. Randle in theory can fit if he can pick up rotations better, but will be problematic on our unless he can hit a jumper, or else Mozgov will have to space and shoot more. But in terms of quickness, all three are potentially good fits next to size. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:05 am Post subject:
Imo, the Lakers two baseline pairings should be deng with Mozgov and Nance with randle, and then mix in short rotations of other combos. Black will need to find a way to be better with someone than those two combos or will simply end up a short rotation guy (maybe the fact that he's a bit of a tweeter who is better against size than randle or Nance right now while possessing more quickness than Mozgov will carve him a niche), and yi will need to stretch the floor on o and play more hard hedge on d, probably next to a rebounder like Randle and with a guy like Ingram providing a bit of back side rim defense from the 3.
I suspect la will mix and match a lot of situational looks and take some time to establish who can do what, but again, I see those first two combos being their bread and butter. Part of me says that the Lakers may end up moving randle for a wing at some point, unless randle blows up offensively and can rotate better on d. If he can shoot a bit on o and can learn to use his quickness on rotations, he and Mozgov could end up working effectively. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:08 am Post subject:
There's no doubt, however, that the Lakers are going to be heavily dependent on Russell and clarkson to set their offensive table, and that is where Mozgov's biggest value will be. He simply will get them maximum space and options to operate with. He more than anyone is critical to dlo taking that leap to the next level. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
I assume Luke will follow the GSW model where they play bigs in short stretches. This is in order to maximize the energy they get from them, but also to give the opposing team's defense different looks (Bogut can play make, Ezeli can roll and Speights can shoot).
I think this is one reason why we have 4 or 5 (if you count in nance/randle) players that can play the C position. I expect at least 3 of them to see minutes each given night. Neither would play more than 25 minutes.
Also like in GSW case we have a lot of players that can play the C position, but all are at most average.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29336 Location: La La Land
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:31 am Post subject:
Omar Little wrote:
I suspect la will mix and match a lot of situational looks and take some time to establish who can do what, but again, I see those first two combos being their bread and butter.
And Since Deng and Ingram are the only 2 SFs rotation-worthy, that means Ingram would be in that Deng/Mozgov pair . Deng and Ingram are both stretch 4s really. I know one would have to technically be the 3 if they play together. But my point is we'd have 1 in, 5 out offensively. Spacing would be great. And we'd still have length with defensive potential (especially if Deng and Ingram switch screens on and off ball).
Rebounding could be a problem. But we do have two 6'5'' guards on the roster that can help on the glass. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Imo, the Lakers two baseline pairings should be deng with Mozgov and Nance with randle, and then mix in short rotations of other combos. Black will need to find a way to be better with someone than those two combos or will simply end up a short rotation guy (maybe the fact that he's a bit of a tweeter who is better against size than randle or Nance right now while possessing more quickness than Mozgov will carve him a niche), and yi will need to stretch the floor on o and play more hard hedge on d, probably next to a rebounder like Randle and with a guy like Ingram providing a bit of back side rim defense from the 3.
I suspect la will mix and match a lot of situational looks and take some time to establish who can do what, but again, I see those first two combos being their bread and butter. Part of me says that the Lakers may end up moving randle for a wing at some point, unless randle blows up offensively and can rotate better on d. If he can shoot a bit on o and can learn to use his quickness on rotations, he and Mozgov could end up working effectively.
Nice that the Lakers finally have some legit options at center.
Moz (Zubac as understudy): huge centers who will clog the paint on defense.
Black: agile big who can PnR
Nance: small ball 5 (not completely sold on Randle playing small ball 5 as his defense is highly suspect on that end).
Yi: pick and pop threat. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
I think this is a really big season for Randle. If he can't work with Moz due to shooting, he will be relegated as a bench forward (with an impending rookie extension coming too). My hope is he has worked on that jumper and considered spacing the floor better rather than relying mostly on iso moves. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
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