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KindCrippler2000
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 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:01 am Post subject: Yi Jianlian vs Toni Kukoc similarities |
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Does anyone get the feeling Yi will be utilized the way Kukoc was during the bulls second three-point? They are both the same height, and I think their games are remarkably similar to each other, although Kukoc also played SF and we likely won't be seeing that with Yi.
Re-watching the some of the old Bulls games on NBATV, I think Yi has the capacity to do everything Kukoc did, and maybe the current league even fits his game better.
Anyways, boat players were the best in their respective countries before joining (or rejoining in Yi's case) the NBA. Perhaps we'll be seeing a different and more battle-tested Yi this time around. This is what makes the comparison more interesting to me.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| He reminds me of Otto Porter a lot more then Kukoc. |
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ainsley
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| Kukoc was a much better ball handler and passer |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| ainsley wrote: | | Kukoc was a much better ball handler and passer |
I'm thinking he improved those traits during his 4 year stint in China, but we'll see. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | ainsley wrote: | | Kukoc was a much better ball handler and passer |
I'm thinking he improved those traits during his 4 year stint in China, but we'll see. |
What we need from Yi is confidence and focus, he doesn't need to be Kukoc... Let's not forget Yi was a lottery pick and Kukoc was a 2nd round pick. |
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Agramer
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Let's not forget Yi was a lottery pick and Kukoc was a 2nd round pick. |
apples and oranges
not comparable, different times and different views on international players. if Kukoč were to be drafted in current time he would be top 5 lottery pick |
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| He is certainly no Kukoc. |
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unleasHell
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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He reminds me of someone who should be cut in Training Camp, now if he can master mixing drinks, Jimbo will keep him around..
This is the lamest signing ever by the Lakers, I would take a chance on Rodman before this guy...lol
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oldschool32
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Their games don't remind me of each other at all.
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| oldschool32 wrote: | | Their games don't remind me of each other at all. |
to me, they are more alike than different:
-same height and close in weight
-perimeter oriented big men who can play the 4/5, though Kukoc also played the 3 in his era (would be a 4/5 in today's game).
-agile/fluid enough to start the fastbreak
-mobile enough to defend on switches, but not necessarily be an imposing presence to opponents.
-best players in their respective countries prior to joining NBA
really interested in seeing how well Yi does in Luke's system, where everything is predicated on ball movement, spacing, constant player movement. we know Kukoc was an exceptional triangle player and benefited tremendously from the spacing. I do think Yi deserves the benefit of the doubt. he's innocent until proven guilty. 
here's a nice head to head for those that are interested: http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/yi_jianlian_vs_toni_kukoc.htm |
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Megaton
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I will be thrilled if Yi ends up as another Mirza Teletovic. |
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KBH
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ainsley wrote: | | Kukoc was a much better ball handler and passer |
Came here to say this. Toni was basically a point forward while Yi is a stretch 4 or 5. |
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KBH
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Agramer wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Let's not forget Yi was a lottery pick and Kukoc was a 2nd round pick. |
apples and oranges
not comparable, different times and different views on international players. if Kukoč were to be drafted in current time he would be top 5 lottery pick |
Yep. If Toni were coming out now, he'd draw Dirk comparisons. Toni is no Dirk but people would definitely say that was his upside. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | ainsley wrote: | | Kukoc was a much better ball handler and passer |
Came here to say this. Toni was basically a point forward while Yi is a stretch 4 or 5. |
That's why he's closer to Mirza Teletovic or Myers Leonard then he is to Kukoc, Yi diffinitely needs to bulk up a lil bit but I don't think he's some sort of Ryan Kelly type, he is diffinitely way better then some of the garbage we had in recent years like Boozer/Kelly/Sacre/Price. |
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Runway8
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Kukoc was "the waiter" for a reason. There is no way Yi all of a sudden gain handles and play making ability in his mid twenties in China. |
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KBH
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | ainsley wrote: | | Kukoc was a much better ball handler and passer |
Came here to say this. Toni was basically a point forward while Yi is a stretch 4 or 5. |
That's why he's closer to Mirza Teletovic or Myers Leonard then he is to Kukoc, Yi diffinitely needs to bulk up a lil bit but I don't think he's some sort of Ryan Kelly type, he is diffinitely way better then some of the garbage we had in recent years like Boozer/Kelly/Sacre/Price. |
Well, no one said Yi was Ryan Kelly level. I just don't see many similarities in Kukoc and Yi's games other than height. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | ainsley wrote: | | Kukoc was a much better ball handler and passer |
Came here to say this. Toni was basically a point forward while Yi is a stretch 4 or 5. |
That's why he's closer to Mirza Teletovic or Myers Leonard then he is to Kukoc, Yi diffinitely needs to bulk up a lil bit but I don't think he's some sort of Ryan Kelly type, he is diffinitely way better then some of the garbage we had in recent years like Boozer/Kelly/Sacre/Price. |
Well, no one said Yi was Ryan Kelly level. I just don't see many similarities in Kukoc and Yi's games other than height. |
And being able to stretch the floor is probably why OP thought they were similar.
I still stand by that Yi will likely end up playing the Teletovic or Montiejunas role for the Lakers, which is a talent upgrade on the roster. |
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Cochese
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think they are very similar at all. I think Yi is more like a poor man's rashard lewis or something. |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | ainsley wrote: | | Kukoc was a much better ball handler and passer |
Came here to say this. Toni was basically a point forward while Yi is a stretch 4 or 5. |
That's why he's closer to Mirza Teletovic or Myers Leonard then he is to Kukoc, Yi diffinitely needs to bulk up a lil bit but I don't think he's some sort of Ryan Kelly type, he is diffinitely way better then some of the garbage we had in recent years like Boozer/Kelly/Sacre/Price. |
Well, no one said Yi was Ryan Kelly level. I just don't see many similarities in Kukoc and Yi's games other than height. |
And being able to stretch the floor is probably why OP thought they were similar.
I still stand by that Yi will likely end up playing the Teletovic or Montiejunas role for the Lakers, which is a talent upgrade on the roster. |
I'm looking at it more from a system-oriented perspective. Phil's system played to Kukoc's strength as a stretch big and we saw how he thrived with the level of spacing - in that he was able to take advantage of holes in the defense, and also stretch the floor when needed. In the same vein, I see Luke's system maximizing Yi's strengths. I drew the comparison because I feel like both have comparable level of mobility as bigs - they can do similar things on the court. I don't expect Yi to get exploited defensively as well. Assuming Yi's working on his ballhandling, I can see his play being more impactful than previously thought. I wasn't high on the signing, but I'm hoping Yi will be a surprise. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| oldschool32 wrote: | | Their games don't remind me of each other at all. |
Agreed. Yi is much stiffer than kukoc. Toni was also a better shooter and playmaker.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | ainsley wrote: | | Kukoc was a much better ball handler and passer |
Came here to say this. Toni was basically a point forward while Yi is a stretch 4 or 5. |
That's why he's closer to Mirza Teletovic or Myers Leonard then he is to Kukoc, Yi diffinitely needs to bulk up a lil bit but I don't think he's some sort of Ryan Kelly type, he is diffinitely way better then some of the garbage we had in recent years like Boozer/Kelly/Sacre/Price. |
Well, no one said Yi was Ryan Kelly level. I just don't see many similarities in Kukoc and Yi's games other than height. |
And being able to stretch the floor is probably why OP thought they were similar.
I still stand by that Yi will likely end up playing the Teletovic or Montiejunas role for the Lakers, which is a talent upgrade on the roster. |
I'm looking at it more from a system-oriented perspective. Phil's system played to Kukoc's strength as a stretch big and we saw how he thrived with the level of spacing - in that he was able to take advantage of holes in the defense, and also stretch the floor when needed. In the same vein, I see Luke's system maximizing Yi's strengths. I drew the comparison because I feel like both have comparable level of mobility as bigs - they can do similar things on the court. I don't expect Yi to get exploited defensively as well. Assuming Yi's working on his ballhandling, I can see his play being more impactful than previously thought. I wasn't high on the signing, but I'm hoping Yi will be a surprise. |
The comparison isn't that far fetch, so I like the thread and the logic behind it. |
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KBH
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | ainsley wrote: | | Kukoc was a much better ball handler and passer |
Came here to say this. Toni was basically a point forward while Yi is a stretch 4 or 5. |
That's why he's closer to Mirza Teletovic or Myers Leonard then he is to Kukoc, Yi diffinitely needs to bulk up a lil bit but I don't think he's some sort of Ryan Kelly type, he is diffinitely way better then some of the garbage we had in recent years like Boozer/Kelly/Sacre/Price. |
Well, no one said Yi was Ryan Kelly level. I just don't see many similarities in Kukoc and Yi's games other than height. |
And being able to stretch the floor is probably why OP thought they were similar.
I still stand by that Yi will likely end up playing the Teletovic or Montiejunas role for the Lakers, which is a talent upgrade on the roster. |
I'm looking at it more from a system-oriented perspective. Phil's system played to Kukoc's strength as a stretch big and we saw how he thrived with the level of spacing - in that he was able to take advantage of holes in the defense, and also stretch the floor when needed. In the same vein, I see Luke's system maximizing Yi's strengths. I drew the comparison because I feel like both have comparable level of mobility as bigs - they can do similar things on the court. I don't expect Yi to get exploited defensively as well. Assuming Yi's working on his ballhandling, I can see his play being more impactful than previously thought. I wasn't high on the signing, but I'm hoping Yi will be a surprise. |
If you're speaking that generally, then you could compare Yi to almost any stretch four. Also, Yi would have to significantly improve his ball handling to even be comparable to Toni in that respect. Toni was basically a 6'11'' guard, and his ball handling reflected that. Lamar Odom is a much closer comparison to Toni than Yi, and I wouldn't say Yi is anything like Lamar either. |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Either way I'd take him over Sacre or Kelly. |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | ainsley wrote: | | Kukoc was a much better ball handler and passer |
Came here to say this. Toni was basically a point forward while Yi is a stretch 4 or 5. |
That's why he's closer to Mirza Teletovic or Myers Leonard then he is to Kukoc, Yi diffinitely needs to bulk up a lil bit but I don't think he's some sort of Ryan Kelly type, he is diffinitely way better then some of the garbage we had in recent years like Boozer/Kelly/Sacre/Price. |
Well, no one said Yi was Ryan Kelly level. I just don't see many similarities in Kukoc and Yi's games other than height. |
And being able to stretch the floor is probably why OP thought they were similar.
I still stand by that Yi will likely end up playing the Teletovic or Montiejunas role for the Lakers, which is a talent upgrade on the roster. |
I'm looking at it more from a system-oriented perspective. Phil's system played to Kukoc's strength as a stretch big and we saw how he thrived with the level of spacing - in that he was able to take advantage of holes in the defense, and also stretch the floor when needed. In the same vein, I see Luke's system maximizing Yi's strengths. I drew the comparison because I feel like both have comparable level of mobility as bigs - they can do similar things on the court. I don't expect Yi to get exploited defensively as well. Assuming Yi's working on his ballhandling, I can see his play being more impactful than previously thought. I wasn't high on the signing, but I'm hoping Yi will be a surprise. |
If you're speaking that generally, then you could compare Yi to almost any stretch four. Also, Yi would have to significantly improve his ball handling to even be comparable to Toni in that respect. Toni was basically a 6'11'' guard, and his ball handling reflected that. Lamar Odom is a much closer comparison to Toni than Yi, and I wouldn't say Yi is anything like Lamar either. |
I think that's the expectation in Luke's system, which is why I think Yi will end up pushing the tempo when needed. One component of Luke's offense is that the big will have to rebound and push the ball before opposing defenses set up. Larry also talked a bit about it and mentioned that he's been trying to improve his ballhandling for that purpose. Even going off the scrimmage footage, we saw Zach Auguste doing the same.
I also don't think Yi plays like a traditional stretch 4 today - he actually moves a bit more like a perimeter player than a big. He's agile, quick for a player his height. You can see him anticipating passes, going for steals and then running the full court to score. He's also shown ability break down defenses and kick out to the open man - we saw some of this in his recent olympic gig and even against guys like Draymond Green.
I don't think the Guangdong Southern Tigers utilized him as a traditional big. I don't know if 4 years of seasoning in China changed his game, but I do think he will be more adaptive and receptive - just because he has so much experience overseas. The NBA is obviously a different creature, but I think we have yet to see what Yi brings to the table in that aspect.
He'll never be the passer Toni was, but I think he will demonstrate more perimeter skills than originally advertised. |
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