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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 31995
Location: Anaheim, CA
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 Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | It's also worth noting that Blake Griffin has to wonder if the Clippers might sign him and then trade him during the next season, to a place where he really doesn't want to be. And if you're wondering about him asking the Clippers for a no-trade clause, he can't. You have to have at least 8 seasons of NBA service (and 4 with the same team), and this season was his 7th.
It's still probable he returns there--they can offer him the most money, after all--but there are certainly reasons he could have to leave. |
Drafted in June 2009.
2009 - 2010 -- Injured in preseason and missed regular season.
2010 - 2011
2011 - 2012
2012 - 2013
2013 - 2014
2014 - 2015
2015 - 2016
2016 - 2017
If he is given service credit for the 2009 - 2010 season, would he be at eight on years of service? |
That's a great catch, and I'm not sure, to be honest. You would think that he actually should, given that he was paid during that time. Different sport, but I think that a player in MLB on the DL accrues service time, so I think it's a similar principle. Put it this way: if he can get a no-trade clause from them, it eliminates one potential reason for leaving. |
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crazylakerfan001
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Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Posts: 1010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | Put this in the playoff thread by accident, so re-posting here...
Here's something to throw out there:
Lakers In: Paul George, Carmelo Anthony, Monta Ellis & Courtney Lee
Lakers Out: Loul Deng, Jordan Clarkson, Tariq Black, Corey Brewer, #3 Pick, #28 Pick, Denver's 2018 2nd round pick & Chicago's 2019 2nd Round Pick (+$20.6 Million)
Knicks In: Loul Deng, Tariq Black, #28 Pick, Denver's 2018 2nd round pick & Chicago's 2019 2nd Round Pick (-$11.6 Million)
Knicks Out: Carmelo Anthony & Courtney Lee
Pacers In: #3 Pick, Jordan Clarkson and Corey Brewer ($-9 Million)
Pacers Out: Paul George & Monta Ellis
-------------------------------------------------------------------
We'd still have about $6-$7 million to use to re-sign Ennis and another guard like Trey Burke -
PG: Russell / Ennis / Burke
SG: George / Ellis
SF: Ingram / Lee / Nwaba
PF: Anthony / Randle / Nance
C: Zubac / Mozgov |
dont want melo anywhere near our young prospects. he's a cancer in the locker room and on the court. I thought this was common knowledge by now. |
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dao
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Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | dao wrote: | | tox wrote: | | dao wrote: | Very interesting proposal 
Makes sense for the Knicks. They shed salary while also getting #28+ #33. That's better for them than anything the Clippers could offer, and Anthony would almost certainly wave his no trade clause. Even if the Pacers don't trade George to us, I could see LA doing a trade like this for Melo.
The lineup though has putrid defense in the frontcourt with Anthony/Randle. Randle would probably need to be thrown into the the George deal anyway. Zubac and Mozgov would then battle it out for the starting center position.
Great proposal. Makes sense for all sides. How about finishing it off with this: Ingram + Randle for Butler.
Russell
Butler
George
Anthony
Zubac/Mozgov
That team might give GSW a little trouble. I wouln't trade Ingram for Butler though tbh. Sticking with Ingram allows us to beat GS four years from now as Ingram/Russell hit their prime with George at the tail end of his prime, and with Melo still being a dangerous stretch 4 scorer. |
That might be the worst defensive frontline in NBA history |
Anthony would be no worse than Randle has been. And I'm banking on a big defensive improvement from Zu. If not, then start Moz. |
I'm saying that Carmelo/ Randle would be the worst defensive frontline in NBA history. |
ah ok, I overlooked the bolded portion. |
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Villain6Activated
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 2:40 am Post subject: |
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It's 3:30 and I'm up studying for my exam tomorrow but I'm going to make this completely useless post about why we should not give up any of our tier 1 assets for Paul George or Jimmy Butler.
I think that both PG and JB can be argued as stars but not franchise players. The only way of acquiring what I consider a true franchise player in our situation is either through FAs or Draft because they are very rarely traded. That's because true franchise players are usually on contenders or up and coming teams. If they are not, teams do everything to surround that franchise player with talent rather then looking to trade said player for assets.
The past champions and true franchise players:
2016- Lebron
2015- Curry
2014- Kawhi/Duncan
2013- Lebron
2012- Lebron
2011- Dirk
09/10- Kobe
I went through the list of all the NBA champions and the oldest NBA champion where I can name a franchise player without having to search the roster is the 1980 Lakers. Since then the only rosters without a true franchise player are the 2008 Celtics and 2004 Pistons. You could argue that Pierce is a franchise player.
These guys would never be on the trade block in the current NBA (maybe Dirk earlier in his career) because they're usually on contenders or the franchise knows that they won't have a better shot without this franchise player. Looking at the current landscape of the NBA with how the new CBA is set up, I think our best bet at a franchise player is through the draft. My totally bias, delusion, homer opinion is that Brandon Ingram will be that guy.
I would define a franchise player as someone who could win the championship as the best player on multiple teams meaning they don't need 100% correct conditions just to be a contender. With that definition I think the franchise players currently in this league are:
Lebron James, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard and James Harden. You would have to go back to 2011 to find a contender that doesn't have one of these players and that's only because Dirk is fading. Potential players that could go on to become franchise players in my opinion are Anthony Davis, KAT and Giannis and it's to early to predict the rookies/sophomores.
Previous championship teams have traded for, drafted or signed franchise players and I'm not saying that theres only one way. I just don't think it would be possible for us to get that guy through trade or FA with the way the NBA is set up currently. Which is why I don't think it's smart to give up alot of assets for either with the logic that we can sign FAs or make more trades because to build a real contender with a relatively long window you need a franchise player + stars surrounding it. We're the Lakers and we shouldn't just go for a playoff team or just having an all-star. Our goal should be building a dynasty.
I'm not the smartest poster on this forum, and I didn't give a real convincing definition of what I think a franchise player is but this post was hell of alot more fun then studying for my exam.
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saetarubia
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 6208
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:54 am Post subject: |
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If Magic/Rob can work some magic. 
Sign CP3 as FA. Trade #3+JC+fillers for PG13.
CP3
DLo
PG 13/Ingram
Randle/Deng
Nance/Zu
Ideally would look to trade for a starting caliber C as well.
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Chronicle
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31937
Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| LilJay24 wrote: | It's 3:30 and I'm up studying for my exam tomorrow but I'm going to make this completely useless post about why we should not give up any of our tier 1 assets for Paul George or Jimmy Butler.
I think that both PG and JB can be argued as stars but not franchise players. The only way of acquiring what I consider a true franchise player in our situation is either through FAs or Draft because they are very rarely traded. That's because true franchise players are usually on contenders or up and coming teams. If they are not, teams do everything to surround that franchise player with talent rather then looking to trade said player for assets.
The past champions and true franchise players:
2016- Lebron
2015- Curry
2014- Kawhi/Duncan
2013- Lebron
2012- Lebron
2011- Dirk
09/10- Kobe
I went through the list of all the NBA champions and the oldest NBA champion where I can name a franchise player without having to search the roster is the 1980 Lakers. Since then the only rosters without a true franchise player are the 2008 Celtics and 2004 Pistons. You could argue that Pierce is a franchise player.
These guys would never be on the trade block in the current NBA (maybe Dirk earlier in his career) because they're usually on contenders or the franchise knows that they won't have a better shot without this franchise player. Looking at the current landscape of the NBA with how the new CBA is set up, I think our best bet at a franchise player is through the draft. My totally bias, delusion, homer opinion is that Brandon Ingram will be that guy.
I would define a franchise player as someone who could win the championship as the best player on multiple teams meaning they don't need 100% correct conditions just to be a contender. With that definition I think the franchise players currently in this league are:
Lebron James, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard and James Harden. You would have to go back to 2011 to find a contender that doesn't have one of these players and that's only because Dirk is fading. Potential players that could go on to become franchise players in my opinion are Anthony Davis, KAT and Giannis and it's to early to predict the rookies/sophomores.
Previous championship teams have traded for, drafted or signed franchise players and I'm not saying that theres only one way. I just don't think it would be possible for us to get that guy through trade or FA with the way the NBA is set up currently. Which is why I don't think it's smart to give up alot of assets for either with the logic that we can sign FAs or make more trades because to build a real contender with a relatively long window you need a franchise player + stars surrounding it. We're the Lakers and we shouldn't just go for a playoff team or just having an all-star. Our goal should be building a dynasty.
I'm not the smartest poster on this forum, and I didn't give a real convincing definition of what I think a franchise player is but this post was hell of alot more fun then studying for my exam. |
George would not have to be that player. He is simply the beginning, more will come after he's here
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Villain6Activated
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| saetarubia wrote: | If Magic/Rob can work some magic.
Sign CP3 as FA. Trade #3+JC+fillers for PG13.
CP3
DLo
PG 13/Ingram
Randle/Deng
Nance/Zu
Ideally would look to trade for a starting caliber C as well. |
Signing CP3 is the least realistic FA possibility that's been mentioned on this forum. He's the president of NBAPA and he specifically negotiated for a supermax deal talking about how it makes FAs less likely to leave their teams. CP3 is eligible for a supermax with the Clippers which is more an extension over 210million dollars.
This is over 50 million more then any other team (including the Lakers) can offer him. There's a 1% chance that CP3 could give up this money to go play for a sure fire contender if he wants a ring, but he's not giving up over 50 million dollars to sign with us when we wouldn't even be as good as the Clippers are this season.
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Villain6Activated
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | LilJay24 wrote: | It's 3:30 and I'm up studying for my exam tomorrow but I'm going to make this completely useless post about why we should not give up any of our tier 1 assets for Paul George or Jimmy Butler.
I think that both PG and JB can be argued as stars but not franchise players. The only way of acquiring what I consider a true franchise player in our situation is either through FAs or Draft because they are very rarely traded. That's because true franchise players are usually on contenders or up and coming teams. If they are not, teams do everything to surround that franchise player with talent rather then looking to trade said player for assets.
The past champions and true franchise players:
2016- Lebron
2015- Curry
2014- Kawhi/Duncan
2013- Lebron
2012- Lebron
2011- Dirk
09/10- Kobe
I went through the list of all the NBA champions and the oldest NBA champion where I can name a franchise player without having to search the roster is the 1980 Lakers. Since then the only rosters without a true franchise player are the 2008 Celtics and 2004 Pistons. You could argue that Pierce is a franchise player.
These guys would never be on the trade block in the current NBA (maybe Dirk earlier in his career) because they're usually on contenders or the franchise knows that they won't have a better shot without this franchise player. Looking at the current landscape of the NBA with how the new CBA is set up, I think our best bet at a franchise player is through the draft. My totally bias, delusion, homer opinion is that Brandon Ingram will be that guy.
I would define a franchise player as someone who could win the championship as the best player on multiple teams meaning they don't need 100% correct conditions just to be a contender. With that definition I think the franchise players currently in this league are:
Lebron James, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard and James Harden. You would have to go back to 2011 to find a contender that doesn't have one of these players and that's only because Dirk is fading. Potential players that could go on to become franchise players in my opinion are Anthony Davis, KAT and Giannis and it's to early to predict the rookies/sophomores.
Previous championship teams have traded for, drafted or signed franchise players and I'm not saying that theres only one way. I just don't think it would be possible for us to get that guy through trade or FA with the way the NBA is set up currently. Which is why I don't think it's smart to give up alot of assets for either with the logic that we can sign FAs or make more trades because to build a real contender with a relatively long window you need a franchise player + stars surrounding it. We're the Lakers and we shouldn't just go for a playoff team or just having an all-star. Our goal should be building a dynasty.
I'm not the smartest poster on this forum, and I didn't give a real convincing definition of what I think a franchise player is but this post was hell of alot more fun then studying for my exam. |
George would not have to be that player. He is simply the beginning, more will come after he's here |
I know that everyone who supports the Paul George trade thinks that he's only going to be a piece that attracts the franchise player or more talent. My argument is that it won't happen because there are no FA's that we could sign in his timeline that are franchise worthy players. Even if they were, most of the stars that hit FAs are going to be eligible for the super max contract which would be 50 million more then we can offer.
In my opinion, our best bet for a franchise player is finding through the draft. The only way trading for Paul George makes sense in my opinion is if we keep 2 out of the potential pick, Brandon Ingram and D'Angelo Russell. Otherwise I think we'll be a playoff team for Paul George's stay with the Lakers.
Of course theres multiple ways to build a contract but from my limited knowledge of the CPA and assessment of the NBA landscape, I think our best bet is a young player turning into a franchise player which we could then build around and trade for stars to surround that guy.
Look at the NBA right now and tell me which player would come after Paul George that would make us into a contender. Keep in mind that all of the young players are going to be with their teams for atleast several years (assuming they don't demand a trade) and when they hit FAs their home team will get a 50 million dollar advantage over us. Who's coming after PG?
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saetarubia
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 6208
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| LilJay24 wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: | If Magic/Rob can work some magic.
Sign CP3 as FA. Trade #3+JC+fillers for PG13.
CP3
DLo
PG 13/Ingram
Randle/Deng
Nance/Zu
Ideally would look to trade for a starting caliber C as well. |
Signing CP3 is the least realistic FA possibility that's been mentioned on this forum. He's the president of NBAPA and he specifically negotiated for a supermax deal talking about how it makes FAs less likely to leave their teams. CP3 is eligible for a supermax with the Clippers which is more an extension over 210million dollars.
This is over 50 million more then any other team (including the Lakers) can offer him. There's a 1% chance that CP3 could give up this money to go play for a sure fire contender if he wants a ring, but he's not giving up over 50 million dollars to sign with us when we wouldn't even be as good as the Clippers are this season. |
He must never have changed teams as a free agent, and he could only have been traded during his first four years in the league
Wasn't CP3 traded in his 6th year? Yet they have listed him eligible for super max. Any idea why?
http://www.hothothoops.com/2017/4/30/15491830/supermax-contracts-chris-paul-blake-griffith-paul-george-gordon-hayworth-stephen-curry-pat-riley
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Villain6Activated
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| saetarubia wrote: | | LilJay24 wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: | If Magic/Rob can work some magic.
Sign CP3 as FA. Trade #3+JC+fillers for PG13.
CP3
DLo
PG 13/Ingram
Randle/Deng
Nance/Zu
Ideally would look to trade for a starting caliber C as well. |
Signing CP3 is the least realistic FA possibility that's been mentioned on this forum. He's the president of NBAPA and he specifically negotiated for a supermax deal talking about how it makes FAs less likely to leave their teams. CP3 is eligible for a supermax with the Clippers which is more an extension over 210million dollars.
This is over 50 million more then any other team (including the Lakers) can offer him. There's a 1% chance that CP3 could give up this money to go play for a sure fire contender if he wants a ring, but he's not giving up over 50 million dollars to sign with us when we wouldn't even be as good as the Clippers are this season. |
He must never have changed teams as a free agent, and he could only have been traded during his first four years in the league
Wasn't CP3 traded in his 6th year? Yet they have listed him eligible for super max. Any idea why?
http://www.hothothoops.com/2017/4/30/15491830/supermax-contracts-chris-paul-blake-griffith-paul-george-gordon-hayworth-stephen-curry-pat-riley |
I was actually looking at that earlier and thinking the same thing, I really have no clue but if I had to guess I'd say it's because he is the president of the NBAPA so he must have found a loophole since he was the main voice behind creation of super max contracts.
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Chronicle
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31937
Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:40 am Post subject: |
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CP3 didnt argue for the supermax, he argued for a change to the over36 rule, which has been changed to over38 rule, meaning he can still get a max (bird) contract. The supermax was for lebron, because it has a clause that you get it if you go back to the team that drafted you....
... or maybe cp3 is planning on returning to new orleans? do they even have the cap room?
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dao
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| All of these George trade proposals involve the #3 pick. What if the pick is top 2? I'd rather have Fultz/Ball than George since they fit the timeline of our young core. A Russell/Ball/Ingram trio is something you can build around for the next decade. All of them will hit their primes around the same time, which is ideal. Hell, you can make the same argument for Jackson at #3. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| dao wrote: | | All of these George trade proposals involve the #3 pick. What if the pick is top 2? I'd rather have Fultz/Ball than George since they fit the timeline of our young core. A Russell/Ball/Ingram trio is something you can build around for the next decade. All of them will hit their primes around the same time, which is ideal. Hell, you can make the same argument for Jackson at #3. |
I think #3 the Lakers trade it.
#2, I think 80% the Lakers keep it (Ball).
If #1, I would keep it and I think the Lakers would too.
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Sina
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2015
Posts: 1822
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| LilJay24 wrote: | It's 3:30 and I'm up studying for my exam tomorrow but I'm going to make this completely useless post about why we should not give up any of our tier 1 assets for Paul George or Jimmy Butler.
I think that both PG and JB can be argued as stars but not franchise players. The only way of acquiring what I consider a true franchise player in our situation is either through FAs or Draft because they are very rarely traded. That's because true franchise players are usually on contenders or up and coming teams. If they are not, teams do everything to surround that franchise player with talent rather then looking to trade said player for assets.
The past champions and true franchise players:
2016- Lebron
2015- Curry
2014- Kawhi/Duncan
2013- Lebron
2012- Lebron
2011- Dirk
09/10- Kobe
I went through the list of all the NBA champions and the oldest NBA champion where I can name a franchise player without having to search the roster is the 1980 Lakers. Since then the only rosters without a true franchise player are the 2008 Celtics and 2004 Pistons. You could argue that Pierce is a franchise player.
These guys would never be on the trade block in the current NBA (maybe Dirk earlier in his career) because they're usually on contenders or the franchise knows that they won't have a better shot without this franchise player. Looking at the current landscape of the NBA with how the new CBA is set up, I think our best bet at a franchise player is through the draft. My totally bias, delusion, homer opinion is that Brandon Ingram will be that guy.
I would define a franchise player as someone who could win the championship as the best player on multiple teams meaning they don't need 100% correct conditions just to be a contender. With that definition I think the franchise players currently in this league are:
Lebron James, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard and James Harden. You would have to go back to 2011 to find a contender that doesn't have one of these players and that's only because Dirk is fading. Potential players that could go on to become franchise players in my opinion are Anthony Davis, KAT and Giannis and it's to early to predict the rookies/sophomores.
Previous championship teams have traded for, drafted or signed franchise players and I'm not saying that theres only one way. I just don't think it would be possible for us to get that guy through trade or FA with the way the NBA is set up currently. Which is why I don't think it's smart to give up alot of assets for either with the logic that we can sign FAs or make more trades because to build a real contender with a relatively long window you need a franchise player + stars surrounding it. We're the Lakers and we shouldn't just go for a playoff team or just having an all-star. Our goal should be building a dynasty.
I'm not the smartest poster on this forum, and I didn't give a real convincing definition of what I think a franchise player is but this post was hell of alot more fun then studying for my exam. |
Agreed. Neither PG nor JB are franchise players to be build around with. Besides, our young core in Russell, Ingram, Randle and Zubac are still too young/too raw. Adding one more star player like PG, JB wouldn't help much on back to contender but hurt their room to grow. They all need play time to gain experience. That why we traded away Lou and benched other veterans.
Russell and Ingram are potential allstars and keepers. Randle and Zubac are nice pieces too. |
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richmorgan12
Starting Rotation
Joined: 13 Feb 2017
Posts: 595
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: |
George would not have to be that player. He is simply the beginning, more will come after he's here |
Doubtful. No one is clamoring to play with Paul George. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Re: Blake Griffin, of course the Clips can and likely offer a 5th year.
But if I'm Blake, I'm probably getting the feeling that I will quickly be on the trading block by January. I think Doc said that Blake was on the trading block this past season but he couldn't pull the trigger.
So yeah, you get your money, but I have no doubts he gets traded. Blake won't be able to pick his team and he could possibly be sent somewhere where he wastes the rest of his prime.
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Wildchild027
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Posts: 3846
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| richmorgan12 wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: |
George would not have to be that player. He is simply the beginning, more will come after he's here |
Doubtful. No one is clamoring to play with Paul George. |
Yeah, but they are clamoring to play with D'Angelo Russell. |
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Wildchild027
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| LilJay24 wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | LilJay24 wrote: | It's 3:30 and I'm up studying for my exam tomorrow but I'm going to make this completely useless post about why we should not give up any of our tier 1 assets for Paul George or Jimmy Butler.
I think that both PG and JB can be argued as stars but not franchise players. The only way of acquiring what I consider a true franchise player in our situation is either through FAs or Draft because they are very rarely traded. That's because true franchise players are usually on contenders or up and coming teams. If they are not, teams do everything to surround that franchise player with talent rather then looking to trade said player for assets.
The past champions and true franchise players:
2016- Lebron
2015- Curry
2014- Kawhi/Duncan
2013- Lebron
2012- Lebron
2011- Dirk
09/10- Kobe
I went through the list of all the NBA champions and the oldest NBA champion where I can name a franchise player without having to search the roster is the 1980 Lakers. Since then the only rosters without a true franchise player are the 2008 Celtics and 2004 Pistons. You could argue that Pierce is a franchise player.
These guys would never be on the trade block in the current NBA (maybe Dirk earlier in his career) because they're usually on contenders or the franchise knows that they won't have a better shot without this franchise player. Looking at the current landscape of the NBA with how the new CBA is set up, I think our best bet at a franchise player is through the draft. My totally bias, delusion, homer opinion is that Brandon Ingram will be that guy.
I would define a franchise player as someone who could win the championship as the best player on multiple teams meaning they don't need 100% correct conditions just to be a contender. With that definition I think the franchise players currently in this league are:
Lebron James, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard and James Harden. You would have to go back to 2011 to find a contender that doesn't have one of these players and that's only because Dirk is fading. Potential players that could go on to become franchise players in my opinion are Anthony Davis, KAT and Giannis and it's to early to predict the rookies/sophomores.
Previous championship teams have traded for, drafted or signed franchise players and I'm not saying that theres only one way. I just don't think it would be possible for us to get that guy through trade or FA with the way the NBA is set up currently. Which is why I don't think it's smart to give up alot of assets for either with the logic that we can sign FAs or make more trades because to build a real contender with a relatively long window you need a franchise player + stars surrounding it. We're the Lakers and we shouldn't just go for a playoff team or just having an all-star. Our goal should be building a dynasty.
I'm not the smartest poster on this forum, and I didn't give a real convincing definition of what I think a franchise player is but this post was hell of alot more fun then studying for my exam. |
George would not have to be that player. He is simply the beginning, more will come after he's here |
I know that everyone who supports the Paul George trade thinks that he's only going to be a piece that attracts the franchise player or more talent. My argument is that it won't happen because there are no FA's that we could sign in his timeline that are franchise worthy players. Even if they were, most of the stars that hit FAs are going to be eligible for the super max contract which would be 50 million more then we can offer.
In my opinion, our best bet for a franchise player is finding through the draft. The only way trading for Paul George makes sense in my opinion is if we keep 2 out of the potential pick, Brandon Ingram and D'Angelo Russell. Otherwise I think we'll be a playoff team for Paul George's stay with the Lakers.
Of course theres multiple ways to build a contract but from my limited knowledge of the CPA and assessment of the NBA landscape, I think our best bet is a young player turning into a franchise player which we could then build around and trade for stars to surround that guy.
Look at the NBA right now and tell me which player would come after Paul George that would make us into a contender. Keep in mind that all of the young players are going to be with their teams for atleast several years (assuming they don't demand a trade) and when they hit FAs their home team will get a 50 million dollar advantage over us. Who's coming after PG? |
I think you can do both. For example, Golden State developed their young talent, and when they had FA money, they were able to get Kevin Durant.
Washington on the other hand, developed Beal, Wall and Porter, all three higher draft picks than Curry, Thompson and Draymond, and couldn't even get a visit from KD.
I am of the opinion that all long as we keep two of our big assets (Russell and Ingram), than I am willing to trade for George. Now, that is also means we have to land someone like Milsap or Griffith in FA's.
The key to me is having cap flexibility to make a run at Anthony Davis in 2020, when he can opt out. Therefore, a guy like Milsap wouldn't get more than a 3 year deal from me. |
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Villain6Activated
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Wildchild027 wrote: | | LilJay24 wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | LilJay24 wrote: | It's 3:30 and I'm up studying for my exam tomorrow but I'm going to make this completely useless post about why we should not give up any of our tier 1 assets for Paul George or Jimmy Butler.
I think that both PG and JB can be argued as stars but not franchise players. The only way of acquiring what I consider a true franchise player in our situation is either through FAs or Draft because they are very rarely traded. That's because true franchise players are usually on contenders or up and coming teams. If they are not, teams do everything to surround that franchise player with talent rather then looking to trade said player for assets.
The past champions and true franchise players:
2016- Lebron
2015- Curry
2014- Kawhi/Duncan
2013- Lebron
2012- Lebron
2011- Dirk
09/10- Kobe
I went through the list of all the NBA champions and the oldest NBA champion where I can name a franchise player without having to search the roster is the 1980 Lakers. Since then the only rosters without a true franchise player are the 2008 Celtics and 2004 Pistons. You could argue that Pierce is a franchise player.
These guys would never be on the trade block in the current NBA (maybe Dirk earlier in his career) because they're usually on contenders or the franchise knows that they won't have a better shot without this franchise player. Looking at the current landscape of the NBA with how the new CBA is set up, I think our best bet at a franchise player is through the draft. My totally bias, delusion, homer opinion is that Brandon Ingram will be that guy.
I would define a franchise player as someone who could win the championship as the best player on multiple teams meaning they don't need 100% correct conditions just to be a contender. With that definition I think the franchise players currently in this league are:
Lebron James, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard and James Harden. You would have to go back to 2011 to find a contender that doesn't have one of these players and that's only because Dirk is fading. Potential players that could go on to become franchise players in my opinion are Anthony Davis, KAT and Giannis and it's to early to predict the rookies/sophomores.
Previous championship teams have traded for, drafted or signed franchise players and I'm not saying that theres only one way. I just don't think it would be possible for us to get that guy through trade or FA with the way the NBA is set up currently. Which is why I don't think it's smart to give up alot of assets for either with the logic that we can sign FAs or make more trades because to build a real contender with a relatively long window you need a franchise player + stars surrounding it. We're the Lakers and we shouldn't just go for a playoff team or just having an all-star. Our goal should be building a dynasty.
I'm not the smartest poster on this forum, and I didn't give a real convincing definition of what I think a franchise player is but this post was hell of alot more fun then studying for my exam. |
George would not have to be that player. He is simply the beginning, more will come after he's here |
I know that everyone who supports the Paul George trade thinks that he's only going to be a piece that attracts the franchise player or more talent. My argument is that it won't happen because there are no FA's that we could sign in his timeline that are franchise worthy players. Even if they were, most of the stars that hit FAs are going to be eligible for the super max contract which would be 50 million more then we can offer.
In my opinion, our best bet for a franchise player is finding through the draft. The only way trading for Paul George makes sense in my opinion is if we keep 2 out of the potential pick, Brandon Ingram and D'Angelo Russell. Otherwise I think we'll be a playoff team for Paul George's stay with the Lakers.
Of course theres multiple ways to build a contract but from my limited knowledge of the CPA and assessment of the NBA landscape, I think our best bet is a young player turning into a franchise player which we could then build around and trade for stars to surround that guy.
Look at the NBA right now and tell me which player would come after Paul George that would make us into a contender. Keep in mind that all of the young players are going to be with their teams for atleast several years (assuming they don't demand a trade) and when they hit FAs their home team will get a 50 million dollar advantage over us. Who's coming after PG? |
I think you can do both. For example, Golden State developed their young talent, and when they had FA money, they were able to get Kevin Durant.
Washington on the other hand, developed Beal, Wall and Porter, all three higher draft picks than Curry, Thompson and Draymond, and couldn't even get a visit from KD.
I am of the opinion that all long as we keep two of our big assets (Russell and Ingram), than I am willing to trade for George. Now, that is also means we have to land someone like Milsap or Griffith in FA's.
The key to me is having cap flexibility to make a run at Anthony Davis in 2020, when he can opt out. Therefore, a guy like Milsap wouldn't get more than a 3 year deal from me. |
Bolded is exactly my take as well, although I wouldn't be opposed to staying put either.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8167
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| dao wrote: | | All of these George trade proposals involve the #3 pick. What if the pick is top 2? I'd rather have Fultz/Ball than George since they fit the timeline of our young core. A Russell/Ball/Ingram trio is something you can build around for the next decade. All of them will hit their primes around the same time, which is ideal. Hell, you can make the same argument for Jackson at #3. |
I prefer they keep both their picks, no matter where they land.
But from a trade value perspective the higher the pick the less the Lakers would have to add to the deal. Perhaps saving another quality asset.
If the choice #1 pick, Lakers may only have to throw in salary match. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:58 am Post subject: |
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Just a hunch, but one (or more) of PG13, Melo, or Blake will be on the Lakers when we start the next season.
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anth2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12263
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| If the Lakers trade anything for Melo, both Mitch and Jim Buss will look like geniuses compared to Magic and Rob. Yuck for Melo, he sucks and won't make the team even slightly better. He just takes shots away from people and plays zero defense. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | If the Lakers trade anything for Melo, both Mitch and Jim Buss will look like geniuses compared to Magic and Rob. Yuck for Melo, he sucks and won't make the team even slightly better. He just takes shots away from people and plays zero defense. |
I would say in order..the chances...
1. PG13 (reasons and methods stated ad naseum...has pros/cons)
2. Blake (FA, will likely get max offer from Clips, but probably worried he will be traded)
3. Melo (if they take our trash for theirs...)
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12263
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Agree, if they take our trash. Like Deng + something. But I wouldn't trade Ingram, DLO or Zubac to get Melo. No way in hell.
I am a PG13 fan. I hope they can pull that off without giving up too much. |
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governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25115
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | Put this in the playoff thread by accident, so re-posting here...
Here's something to throw out there:
Lakers In: Paul George, Carmelo Anthony, Monta Ellis & Courtney Lee
Lakers Out: Loul Deng, Jordan Clarkson, Tariq Black, Corey Brewer, #3 Pick, #28 Pick, Denver's 2018 2nd round pick & Chicago's 2019 2nd Round Pick (+$20.6 Million)
Knicks In: Loul Deng, Tariq Black, #28 Pick, Denver's 2018 2nd round pick & Chicago's 2019 2nd Round Pick (-$11.6 Million)
Knicks Out: Carmelo Anthony & Courtney Lee
Pacers In: #3 Pick, Jordan Clarkson and Corey Brewer ($-9 Million)
Pacers Out: Paul George & Monta Ellis
-------------------------------------------------------------------
We'd still have about $6-$7 million to use to re-sign Ennis and another guard like Trey Burke -
PG: Russell / Ennis / Burke
SG: George / Ellis
SF: Ingram / Lee / Nwaba
PF: Anthony / Randle / Nance
C: Zubac / Mozgov |
I know people don't like Melo cause he hasn't won anything but that's a playoff squad with DLo/BI/Randle/Zu/Nance still on team and the end of Lakers Deng farewell tour... this would count as a successful summer |
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