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Dreamshake
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 Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Cochese wrote: | | I dont really understand the CP3 to Houston thing unless Harden is tired of playmaking and just wants to jack up shots all day. he kind of does that anyway, but CP3 would run the offense. dunno if it would work. |
1. The team doesn't have another playmaker outside of Harden.
2. The team runs a P&R offense and CP3 is one of the best P&R players in the league.
3. Harden can stand to have his wear-n-tear reduced. CP3 can have his career extended as well.
4. When the offense stalls in the playoffs CP3 can help.
5. Harden and CP3 are actually both very good spot up shooters.
6. The team is more attractive to other free agents with two stars on the roster.
I get why we are chasing him. I just don't see why he would pick us over SA if Aldridge and the team play make-up. Harden was fine being the 3rd option in OKC, so no idea why some thing he couldn't play alongside CP3. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | epak wrote: | CP3 to Houston? That's interesting.
I can't believe Houston would be better with Harden off the ball. Weird that Harden is all in on this. Would Mike D. be ok with this? |
Not weird. Harden doesn't seem to have an issue with sharing or changes if it will help win games. He was ok coming off the bench in OKC and didn't want to leave. He was fine giving Dwigt post touches even though it wasn't effective. He was fine with a new coach having him switch positions last year.
He's got his flaws but that's not one. |
Only weird that both are best with the ball in their hands.
True or false? |
True, but neither is ineffective off the ball. Look up their numbers. And Harden was still great in OKC sharing the ball with Durant and Westbrook. What would make one think he couldn't play alongside CP3? Don't let the lack of other playmakers in Houston fool you.
Both guards are very good spot up shooters, distance shots included. If McHale was the coach I'd be worried. The current coach is pretty good at scheming offense.
Last edited by Dreamshake on Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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CP3 and Harden would be a better 1-2 combo than CP3 and Blake....plus it wouldn't be that hard to find a center that sucks at free throws and can dunk.  |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | epak wrote: | CP3 to Houston? That's interesting.
I can't believe Houston would be better with Harden off the ball. Weird that Harden is all in on this. Would Mike D. be ok with this? |
Not weird. Harden doesn't seem to have an issue with sharing or changes if it will help win games. He was ok coming off the bench in OKC and didn't want to leave. He was fine giving Dwigt post touches even though it wasn't effective. He was fine with a new coach having him switch positions last year.
He's got his flaws but that's not one. |
Only weird that both are best with the ball in their hands.
True or false? |
True, but neither is ineffective off the ball. Look up their numbers. And Harden was still great in OKC sharing the ball with Durant and Westbrook. What would make one think he couldn't play alongside CP3? Don't let the lack of other playmakers in Houston fool you.
Both guards are very good spot up shooters, distance shots included. If McHale was the coach I'd be worried. The current coach is pretty good at scheming offense. |
CP3 catch and shoot: 50% on 3s!
I hate CP3!!! |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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^^
I don't think Lou could get a first round pick, but he could bring back a 2nd. His value was a late-first round pick last year, and that was when he was in the midst of a career year and when he still afforded his acquiring team 2 possible playoff runs.
Beverley has more value than Lou, as being slightly more affordable and having 2 more years on his deal. And as a bonus, if he does happen to get injured, the second year is not guaranteed.
Gordon averaging $13.5MM annually over the next 3 years is interesting. He's clearly worth the contract if healthy. But I still think teams would be hesitant. I think he's worth a first, but not a lottery pick. |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Brooklyn might take Anderson if they attach Clint Capela, but I don't see him as a cornerstone player like D'Angelo Russell.
That's going to be a tough sell.
There is no way any team trades for Beverley or Ariza. The free agent market is saturated with players like them, i.e. Kyle Lowry, Jrue Holiday, George Hill, Andre Robertson, Andre Iguodala, et al.
Last edited by JUST-MING on Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:08 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | The Lebrons wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | The Lebrons wrote: | | 32 wrote: | @ESPNSteinLine
Story going online now: League sources tell me Houston has emerged as an increasingly serious threat to sign Chris Paul in free agency. |
I don't see how this happens, so I'll wait for story. They have about ~9 in cap space and would need to clear ~20 mill. They'd have to trade Ariza, Lou, and Beverley by my math (and I'm sure teams will absorb them, including potentially us). I guess we'll see. |
Ariza and a Bev are positive assets. We could get picks for them. Anderson has a $20M contract. He's the one that would have to go and would likely cost something to get rid of. If a miracle occurs and CP3 picks us over extra $$ in LA or the Spurs, we'd likely dump Anderson and 2 of Gordon/Beverly/Lou, and I'm sure we could get a pick for the each of those guards. |
Ya trading Anderson would be the best bet, I don't know how costly that would be for Rockets. Maybe the Nets will take him too. |
Brooklyn might take Anderson if they attach Clint Capela, but I don't see him as a cornerstone player like D'Angelo Russell. That's going to be a tough sell.
There is no way any team trades for Beverley or Ariza. The free agent market is saturated with players like them, i.e. Kyle Lowry, Jrue Holiday, George Hill, Andre Robertson, Andre Iguodala, Aaron Afflalo, etc.
I didn't realize Harden was already 28 years old. |
The bolded is not accurate. Beverley and Ariza only make $5.5MM and $7.4MM this season, respectively. Lowry is going to cost $25-30MM a year. Holiday probably will cost $20-25MM a year. Ditto George Hill, at least. Roberson is going to cost $10-15MM a year (he should get more than Clarkson, because his defense has real value). Iggy is going to cost at least $10MM a year if he leaves Golden State. And Afflalo is terrible. |
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JeezyXVII
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| The Lebrons wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | The Lebrons wrote: | | 32 wrote: | @ESPNSteinLine
Story going online now: League sources tell me Houston has emerged as an increasingly serious threat to sign Chris Paul in free agency. |
I don't see how this happens, so I'll wait for story. They have about ~9 in cap space and would need to clear ~20 mill. They'd have to trade Ariza, Lou, and Beverley by my math (and I'm sure teams will absorb them, including potentially us). I guess we'll see. |
Ariza and a Bev are positive assets. We could get picks for them. Anderson has a $20M contract. He's the one that would have to go and would likely cost something to get rid of. If a miracle occurs and CP3 picks us over extra $$ in LA or the Spurs, we'd likely dump Anderson and 2 of Gordon/Beverly/Lou, and I'm sure we could get a pick for the each of those guards. |
Ya trading Anderson would be the best bet, I don't know how costly that would be for Rockets. Maybe the Nets will take him too. |
I could see Miami or the Nets trading for Anderson if he were to be moved. |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| It is accurate that the market is saturated with those caliber role players. I also expect teams will be more hesitant to offer those kinds of contracts this summer. The Timofey Mozgov and Loul Deng contracts cost Mitch and Jim their jobs. |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Good thing about Phil leaving the Knicks on Wednesday is that they will keep porzingiz and melo. Hopefully. |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | It is accurate that the market is saturated with those caliber role players. I also expect teams will be more hesitant to offer those kinds of contracts this summer. The Timofey Mozgov and Loul Deng contracts cost Mitch and Jim their jobs. |
Those caliber players don't come attached with a free draft pick like the Houston guys likely would. |
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PRLakeShow
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | It is accurate that the market is saturated with those caliber role players. I also expect teams will be more hesitant to offer those kinds of contracts this summer. The Timofey Mozgov and Loul Deng contracts cost Mitch and Jim their jobs. |
Those caliber players don't come attached with a free draft pick like the Houston guys likely would. |
Well Dreamshake said that they could get picks in return for each of Beverley/Lou/Ariza. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | It is accurate that the market is saturated with those caliber role players. I also expect teams will be more hesitant to offer those kinds of contracts this summer. The Timofey Mozgov and Loul Deng contracts cost Mitch and Jim their jobs. |
Those caliber players don't come attached with a free draft pick like the Houston guys likely would. |
Nah, Dreamshake is accurate. The Rockets will get assets for Beverley and Ariza, not the other way around. Those are good players on cheap contracts. Teams that are happy to make the playoffs (Charlotte comes to mind) will give up stuff for those guys. Michael Jordan would give up a 2nd round pick for Beverley in a second, for example.
Now, Ryan Anderson is a different story. They would have to attach something to move him.
Last edited by ChickenStu on Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| PRLakeShow wrote: | | epak wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | It is accurate that the market is saturated with those caliber role players. I also expect teams will be more hesitant to offer those kinds of contracts this summer. The Timofey Mozgov and Loul Deng contracts cost Mitch and Jim their jobs. |
Those caliber players don't come attached with a free draft pick like the Houston guys likely would. |
Well didn't Dreamshake say that they could get picks in return for each of Beverley/Lou/Ariza. |
Houston would be the way he getting picks? |
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PRLakeShow
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | epak wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | It is accurate that the market is saturated with those caliber role players. I also expect teams will be more hesitant to offer those kinds of contracts this summer. The Timofey Mozgov and Loul Deng contracts cost Mitch and Jim their jobs. |
Those caliber players don't come attached with a free draft pick like the Houston guys likely would. |
Well didn't Dreamshake say that they could get picks in return for each of Beverley/Lou/Ariza. |
Houston would be the way he getting picks? |
Yup. |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | epak wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | It is accurate that the market is saturated with those caliber role players. I also expect teams will be more hesitant to offer those kinds of contracts this summer. The Timofey Mozgov and Loul Deng contracts cost Mitch and Jim their jobs. |
Those caliber players don't come attached with a free draft pick like the Houston guys likely would. |
Nah, Dreamshake is accurate. The Rockets will get assets for Beverley and Ariza, not the other way around. Those are good players on cheap contracts. Teams that are happy to make the playoffs (Charlotte comes to mind) will give up stuff for those guys. Michael Jordan would give up a 2nd round pick for Beverley in a second, for example.
Now, Ryan Anderson is a different story. They would have to attach something to move him. |
Seeing as Houston has to get rid of them like they needed to get rid of Lin, we'll see. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | epak wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | It is accurate that the market is saturated with those caliber role players. I also expect teams will be more hesitant to offer those kinds of contracts this summer. The Timofey Mozgov and Loul Deng contracts cost Mitch and Jim their jobs. |
Those caliber players don't come attached with a free draft pick like the Houston guys likely would. |
Well didn't Dreamshake say that they could get picks in return for each of Beverley/Lou/Ariza. |
Houston would be the way he getting picks? |
Yes. Beverley and Ariza are both good NBA rotation players who are basically on cheap expiring contracts. (Beverley's 2nd season is non-guaranteed, so if he unexpectedly had a terrible year or got injured, you could just move on; but more likely, you'd want him for that second year anyway.) I'm not saying they will get lottery picks for those guys, but there is no reason that a playoff contender wouldn't give up a 2nd rounder for those guys. The 76ers have the young pieces they want in place and might be looking to take a step up and try to contend. They have three 2nd round picks in '18 and three 2nd round picks in '19. That is a prime team that could take one or even both of those players for a couple of 2nd rounders. |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Philadelphia can keep their picks and sign a free agent  |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | epak wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | It is accurate that the market is saturated with those caliber role players. I also expect teams will be more hesitant to offer those kinds of contracts this summer. The Timofey Mozgov and Loul Deng contracts cost Mitch and Jim their jobs. |
Those caliber players don't come attached with a free draft pick like the Houston guys likely would. |
Nah, Dreamshake is accurate. The Rockets will get assets for Beverley and Ariza, not the other way around. Those are good players on cheap contracts. Teams that are happy to make the playoffs (Charlotte comes to mind) will give up stuff for those guys. Michael Jordan would give up a 2nd round pick for Beverley in a second, for example.
Now, Ryan Anderson is a different story. They would have to attach something to move him. |
Seeing as Houston has to get rid of them like they needed to get rid of Lin, we'll see. |
Lin was making $15MM though. Ryan Anderson is better than Lin, but he's making $20MM a year for the next 3 years. If he was the one they had to dump, they would have to attach a 1st rounder, I'm almost sure of it (although they can't trade their 2018 1st rounder). |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Chick, I'm not a GM nor do I play one on TV. I get your point. But time will tell if Houston needs to unload contracts. We'll find out what happens then.
[Edit] you're making great points. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Philadelphia can keep their picks and sign a free agent |
I realize that they can try to sign players in free agency, but you are clearly missing the big picture. They are still very unlikely to use all of their cap space. They are also unlikely to get any of the top free agents. This is a way to get a couple of veteran players who would help on cheap deals. The value of those players to them, if they help them round out a squad this year and get them to the postseason, would be a very valuable thing. The sooner that they can get those young dudes to the playoffs to experience that, the better. And I'm not saying that they would necessarily want both of them. But why not at least one of them? Again, they have six 2nd round picks coming up in the next 2 drafts. |
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PRLakeShow
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I would take on all three Beverley/Ariza/Lou for the Denver 2nd and Bulls 2nd. That makes our team better... And our 2018 pick will be higher... And the Boston offer for PG gets worse... And Indy trades him to the Lakers. Win-win-win-win... And I'm off to bed. |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| The only scenario I see Beverley, Ariza and Lou traded for draft picks is in a salary dump situation, like for Chandler Parsons. Otherwise, teams with cap space will shop in the free agent market. That's how the system works. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| PRLakeShow wrote: | | I would take on all three Beverley/Ariza/Lou for the Denver 2nd and Bulls 2nd. That makes our team better... And our 2018 pick will be higher... And the Boston offer for PG gets worse... And Indy trades him to the Lakers. Win-win-win-win... And I'm off to bed. |
I'm not sure if the rules would allow us to re-acquire Lou within a year, but I'd definitely take Beverley and Ariza on the team. They would both add shooting and defense to this team. |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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You know I got love for ariza. Not just cuz he's a bruin. He'd be a nice buffer to PG right?  |
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