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Roon
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
When I look up Nance and Randle's numbers... it backs up what most of you are saying... that LNJ's better as a backup... not sure if he's a starter.

But I think if Ball is the real thing, Nance's athleticism and defense might better complement Ball. We won't know this until pre season... but I have a feeling Nance might flourish the most, provided he's given adequate minutes.
I know Julius is strong and fast... but it just seems like Nance is better suited to be a Worthy type finisher on the break. Also, I think Nance in general just lacks confidence and swagger... if he played with the same mentality that Julius did, I think he'd be an even better player.


It's funny because, though I agree that Nance might be a better player if he played with the same mentality; aggressive, physical, seeks to impose his will on his opponent, as JR, it's also evident that Julius would be a better complement for Ball, and the rest, if he had the same mentality; unselfish to a fault, defensively sharp, practices the fundamentals like setting solid screens, as Nance.


Yes, I agree with that... the blend of the two would be a perfect player.

The question is, would it be easier to turn Nance into Randle or vice versa? Personally, I believe Larry can learn confidence more easily than Julius can learn discipline... but I guess time will answer this for us... barring a trade.


You can't teach talent though, and Julius has a lot more talent than Nance does.

Nance has Jules beat in vertical, but Randle has an advantage in every other athletic measurement.

Straight line top speed/acceleration.
Strength.
Lateral quickness.
Ability to change direction.
First step.

Not to mention the difference in ballhanding. Who would you rather have catching all those outlet passes Lonzo throws?

Here are some SL passes that where I think JR has a much better chance to score/play make than Nance

https://vimeo.com/226048912

@1:25, JR has a much better chance of finishing that than Nance
@1:37 Nance could finish this one too
@1:42 Similar to the one above, but this is where JR would have a much better chance at finishing.
@1:51 Nance holds this ball and might hit a trailer. Jules could attack the D.
@1:59 If Nance attacks right away he might have a chance at a dunk/FTs but I would still take JR here.
@2:09 Nance might be able to extend here for a monster dunk, but it'd be an easier play for Jules
@2:23 This play and the one right after are pretty similar. I wouldn't want Nance or JR to just stop for a pull up jumper, but JR has the quickness/ballhandling to have more options to attack here.
@ 2:32 Jules could do this, I don't think Nance could. Next four plays as well. A team could adjust to Jules here and really sag off and give him the open 3. Another reason the 3 is so important for Jules.

I'm going to get back to work but Jules would feast on those. Ingram would be dangerous here too. Turn Blue/Nwaba/Caruso into JR/Ingram(who are just way big) and even KCP/Clarkson.

Excited for Ball.
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Sentient Meat
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:26 pm    Post subject:

Roon wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
When I look up Nance and Randle's numbers... it backs up what most of you are saying... that LNJ's better as a backup... not sure if he's a starter.

But I think if Ball is the real thing, Nance's athleticism and defense might better complement Ball. We won't know this until pre season... but I have a feeling Nance might flourish the most, provided he's given adequate minutes.
I know Julius is strong and fast... but it just seems like Nance is better suited to be a Worthy type finisher on the break. Also, I think Nance in general just lacks confidence and swagger... if he played with the same mentality that Julius did, I think he'd be an even better player.


It's funny because, though I agree that Nance might be a better player if he played with the same mentality; aggressive, physical, seeks to impose his will on his opponent, as JR, it's also evident that Julius would be a better complement for Ball, and the rest, if he had the same mentality; unselfish to a fault, defensively sharp, practices the fundamentals like setting solid screens, as Nance.


Yes, I agree with that... the blend of the two would be a perfect player.

The question is, would it be easier to turn Nance into Randle or vice versa? Personally, I believe Larry can learn confidence more easily than Julius can learn discipline... but I guess time will answer this for us... barring a trade.


You can't teach talent though, and Julius has a lot more talent than Nance does.

Nance has Jules beat in vertical, but Randle has an advantage in every other athletic measurement.

Straight line top speed/acceleration.
Strength.
Lateral quickness.
Ability to change direction.
First step.

Not to mention the difference in ballhanding. Who would you rather have catching all those outlet passes Lonzo throws?

Here are some SL passes that where I think JR has a much better chance to score/play make than Nance

https://vimeo.com/226048912

@1:25, JR has a much better chance of finishing that than Nance
@1:37 Nance could finish this one too
@1:42 Similar to the one above, but this is where JR would have a much better chance at finishing.
@1:51 Nance holds this ball and might hit a trailer. Jules could attack the D.
@1:59 If Nance attacks right away he might have a chance at a dunk/FTs but I would still take JR here.
@2:09 Nance might be able to extend here for a monster dunk, but it'd be an easier play for Jules
@2:23 This play and the one right after are pretty similar. I wouldn't want Nance or JR to just stop for a pull up jumper, but JR has the quickness/ballhandling to have more options to attack here.
@ 2:32 Jules could do this, I don't think Nance could. Next four plays as well. A team could adjust to Jules here and really sag off and give him the open 3. Another reason the 3 is so important for Jules.

I'm going to get back to work but Jules would feast on those. Ingram would be dangerous here too. Turn Blue/Nwaba/Caruso into JR/Ingram(who are just way big) and even KCP/Clarkson.

Excited for Ball.


Thanks for your insights, I'll keep them in mind when the season starts.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject:

giordan0 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:

I've never seen him play admittedly, but just looked up his bio...he's 24, 1-15 lifetime from 3 point range. Is he a defensive beast? What would lead you to think he'd be worthy of an invite?




    All-NBA D-League Second Team (2017)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject:

darkside4730 wrote:
Archie Goodwin got waived by the Nets.

Would he be a good pick up?


He got waived by the Nets.
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nash
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject:

Roon wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
When I look up Nance and Randle's numbers... it backs up what most of you are saying... that LNJ's better as a backup... not sure if he's a starter.

But I think if Ball is the real thing, Nance's athleticism and defense might better complement Ball. We won't know this until pre season... but I have a feeling Nance might flourish the most, provided he's given adequate minutes.
I know Julius is strong and fast... but it just seems like Nance is better suited to be a Worthy type finisher on the break. Also, I think Nance in general just lacks confidence and swagger... if he played with the same mentality that Julius did, I think he'd be an even better player.


It's funny because, though I agree that Nance might be a better player if he played with the same mentality; aggressive, physical, seeks to impose his will on his opponent, as JR, it's also evident that Julius would be a better complement for Ball, and the rest, if he had the same mentality; unselfish to a fault, defensively sharp, practices the fundamentals like setting solid screens, as Nance.


Yes, I agree with that... the blend of the two would be a perfect player.

The question is, would it be easier to turn Nance into Randle or vice versa? Personally, I believe Larry can learn confidence more easily than Julius can learn discipline... but I guess time will answer this for us... barring a trade.


You can't teach talent though, and Julius has a lot more talent than Nance does.

Nance has Jules beat in vertical, but Randle has an advantage in every other athletic measurement.

Straight line top speed/acceleration.
Strength.
Lateral quickness.
Ability to change direction.
First step.

Not to mention the difference in ballhanding. Who would you rather have catching all those outlet passes Lonzo throws?

Here are some SL passes that where I think JR has a much better chance to score/play make than Nance

https://vimeo.com/226048912

@1:25, JR has a much better chance of finishing that than Nance
@1:37 Nance could finish this one too
@1:42 Similar to the one above, but this is where JR would have a much better chance at finishing.
@1:51 Nance holds this ball and might hit a trailer. Jules could attack the D.
@1:59 If Nance attacks right away he might have a chance at a dunk/FTs but I would still take JR here.
@2:09 Nance might be able to extend here for a monster dunk, but it'd be an easier play for Jules
@2:23 This play and the one right after are pretty similar. I wouldn't want Nance or JR to just stop for a pull up jumper, but JR has the quickness/ballhandling to have more options to attack here.
@ 2:32 Jules could do this, I don't think Nance could. Next four plays as well. A team could adjust to Jules here and really sag off and give him the open 3. Another reason the 3 is so important for Jules.

I'm going to get back to work but Jules would feast on those. Ingram would be dangerous here too. Turn Blue/Nwaba/Caruso into JR/Ingram(who are just way big) and even KCP/Clarkson.

Excited for Ball.


But Nance has better overall stats than him.

It is Julius 4th season, it is time to show he is head and shoulders above Nance if he wants to get paid. Time to turn potential in results because upside is not something a young player can use forever.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject:

Looking back at some of the deals this year, there were some pretty dicey ones. Teams stayed away from the Noah, Mozgov, Turner type of deals.

But Jrue Holiday got 5 years, $153 million. I mean, are they getting 250 NBA games for that? Blake got 5 years, $173 million and can't walk right now. Igoudala, a guy some thought could be had for around $10 million earlier this season got 3 years, $48 million.

On some level these don't compare with the bad deals of last year but there's a lot of risk in some of the 2017 deals too.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:29 pm    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
Looking back at some of the deals this year, there were some pretty dicey ones. Teams stayed away from the Noah, Mozgov, Turner type of deals.

But Jrue Holiday got 5 years, $153 million. I mean, are they getting 250 NBA games for that? Blake got 5 years, $173 million and can't walk right now. Igoudala, a guy some thought could be had for around $10 million earlier this season got 3 years, $48 million.

On some level these don't compare with the bad deals of last year but there's a lot of risk in some of the 2017 deals too.


I think Jrue Holiday is a nice player, but it is absolutely disgusting that they gave him that much money. I bet Rondo outplays him this year.

This is my nightmare if we decide to give KCP this type of contract... I expect him to be a solid player but I will be horrified if we give him a 100 million dollar contract.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject:

Yup, I think every Jules supporter here acknowledges it's put up or shut up season. We'd disagree it's his fourth though and even then his first full season was the KFT with Bryon.

Most of us understand Nance has better advanced stats. Once you look at them it's not really a competition.

I see his flashes though, and Jules has the talent/athleticism/size to take over games. There's a lot to say about being the the most dominant force on the court in a game so predicated on athleticism.

I don't need him to be a knockdown shooter or a great defender next year, but if he doesn't show improvement in shooting, and a greater effort and obvious progress on defense, me and I believe a lot of his supporters, will take a step back in our valuation of him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject:

Roon wrote:
Yup, I think every Jules supporter here acknowledges it's put up or shut up season. We'd disagree it's his fourth though and even then his first full season was the KFT with Bryon.

Most of us understand Nance has better advanced stats. Once you look at them it's not really a competition.

I see his flashes though, and Jules has the talent/athleticism/size to take over games. There's a lot to say about being the the most dominant force on the court in a game so predicated on athleticism.

I don't need him to be a knockdown shooter or a great defender next year, but if he doesn't show improvement in shooting, and a greater effort and obvious progress on defense, me and I believe a lot of his supporters, will take a step back in our valuation of him.


I don't think anyone can realistically fault Randle as lacking in the talent department. Most fans that doubt him (like myself) are far more concerned with his severe inconsistency. The fact that he apparently only cares about putting in the work to get in great shape when it's his contract year really does nothing at all to change that perspective. I won't be at all surprised if he performs at a significantly better level defensively - which is all about focus, communication and effort. But, I also won't be surprised if he goes right back to being this supremely talented guy that is consistently inconsitent once he gets his nice contract locked up.

Randle doubters don't need a bullet point list of what he can bring to a game. If he played the game with the same type of focus and heart that Nance does all the time - there wouldn't be anything to discuss. JR has all the tools. But, players that are known for playing hard all the time don't need their contract status to dictate when they turn it on and off. If he proves me wrong - then that's likely a good thing for the Lakers. Yet, if I'm the one deciding on whether or not to pay him handsomely, it's pretty tough to ignore that he has this huge shift in his preparation to getting in shape and so forth when his big payday is on the line. It's not a good position for the FO to be in because how are you supposed to know what to expect from him after he gets paid? THAT is the main issue with Randle.

BTW - all of these folks that think Nance can be our starting PF - sorry that's not what he is. I like Larry a lot, one of my favorite Lakers. But, he has never shown that he has what it takes to be our starter. That's ok, though. Teams need to have a good bench and he's a great rotation player to have.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject:

Rek wrote:
The fact that he apparently only cares about putting in the work to get in great shape when it's his contract year really does nothing at all to change that perspective.


Yeah this is almost like Nick Young somewhat, the guy balls out when it's a contract year.

Rek wrote:
But, I also won't be surprised if he goes right back to being this supremely talented guy that is consistently inconsitent once he gets his nice contract locked up.


I see this happening.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:29 pm    Post subject:

If Randle balls out I would still want a deal like Deng and Randle for Cousins. Which could happen if Randle kills it because Cousins isn't returning to NO likely. Then you could figure out a Cousins PG Bronze trio because at this point if you dumped Deng you just find someone to take on Clarkson. And every one gives up a few bucks
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:36 pm    Post subject:

Why would we trade Randle if he balls out this season?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:37 am    Post subject:

GonzagaAlum wrote:
If Randle balls out I would still want a deal like Deng and Randle for Cousins. Which could happen if Randle kills it because Cousins isn't returning to NO likely. Then you could figure out a Cousins PG Bronze trio because at this point if you dumped Deng you just find someone to take on Clarkson. And every one gives up a few bucks
tough to make that all fit.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:08 am    Post subject:

Why would anyone trade for Cousins at this point? Go for Free Agency.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:09 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
Looking back at some of the deals this year, there were some pretty dicey ones. Teams stayed away from the Noah, Mozgov, Turner type of deals.

But Jrue Holiday got 5 years, $153 million. I mean, are they getting 250 NBA games for that? Blake got 5 years, $173 million and can't walk right now. Igoudala, a guy some thought could be had for around $10 million earlier this season got 3 years, $48 million.

On some level these don't compare with the bad deals of last year but there's a lot of risk in some of the 2017 deals too.


I think Jrue Holiday is a nice player, but it is absolutely disgusting that they gave him that much money. I bet Rondo outplays him this year.

This is my nightmare if we decide to give KCP this type of contract... I expect him to be a solid player but I will be horrified if we give him a 100 million dollar contract.


That may be part of Rich Paul's price for signing LBJ. Remember Tristan Thompson.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:01 am    Post subject:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
Looking back at some of the deals this year, there were some pretty dicey ones. Teams stayed away from the Noah, Mozgov, Turner type of deals.

But Jrue Holiday got 5 years, $153 million. I mean, are they getting 250 NBA games for that? Blake got 5 years, $173 million and can't walk right now. Igoudala, a guy some thought could be had for around $10 million earlier this season got 3 years, $48 million.

On some level these don't compare with the bad deals of last year but there's a lot of risk in some of the 2017 deals too.


I think Jrue Holiday is a nice player, but it is absolutely disgusting that they gave him that much money. I bet Rondo outplays him this year.

This is my nightmare if we decide to give KCP this type of contract... I expect him to be a solid player but I will be horrified if we give him a 100 million dollar contract.


That may be part of Rich Paul's price for signing LBJ. Remember Tristan Thompson.


I'm not doing [expletive] for LeBron unless he commits to longer than a 1+1. Cause if he doesn't, I'm not doing it. I'll tell him 'adios, have fun back in Cleveland soon without Kyrie and losing to the Warriors every year.'

if he wants to come here and start making demands he'd better sign on for longer than a 1+1 cause we're not mortgaging our future to have him leave right after.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:01 am    Post subject:

Roon wrote:
Yup, I think every Jules supporter here acknowledges it's put up or shut up season. We'd disagree it's his fourth though and even then his first full season was the KFT with Bryon.

Most of us understand Nance has better advanced stats. Once you look at them it's not really a competition.

I see his flashes though, and Jules has the talent/athleticism/size to take over games. There's a lot to say about being the the most dominant force on the court in a game so predicated on athleticism.

I don't need him to be a knockdown shooter or a great defender next year, but if he doesn't show improvement in shooting, and a greater effort and obvious progress on defense, me and I believe a lot of his supporters, will take a step back in our valuation of him.


Derrick Favors took 6 seasons before even coming close to Randles impact so for me it isn't put up this year or he's a bust.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:12 am    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:


Derrick Favors took 6 seasons before even coming close to Randles impact so for me it isn't put up this year or he's a bust.


Definitely too soon to label a bust but from a contract renewal perspective a decision has to be made.

The Jazz are Favors' fourth NBA team.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:18 am    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
Car54 wrote:


Derrick Favors took 6 seasons before even coming close to Randles impact so for me it isn't put up this year or he's a bust.


Definitely too soon to label a bust but from a contract renewal perspective a decision has to be made.

The Jazz are Favors' fourth NBA team.


I just don't see the need to rush when GSW is loaded. It took them time to build that team. Those super teams that LeBron have been on have had short windows because of how they're assembled.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:51 am    Post subject:

Rek wrote:
The fact that he apparently only cares about putting in the work to get in great shape when it's his contract year really does nothing at all to change that perspective.


That isn't really true, he has been working to get in better shape since healing from a broken leg.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:53 am    Post subject:

GonzagaAlum wrote:
If Randle balls out I would still want a deal like Deng and Randle for Cousins. Which could happen if Randle kills it because Cousins isn't returning to NO likely. Then you could figure out a Cousins PG Bronze trio because at this point if you dumped Deng you just find someone to take on Clarkson. And every one gives up a few bucks


Lebron isn't giving up anything, and why would Randle want to go to NO? If he balls out he will have other options.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:55 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Why would anyone trade for Cousins at this point? Go for Free Agency.


Names man, big names!!!!!!
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Why would anyone trade for Cousins at this point? Go for Free Agency.


Sign and trades can be more beneficial financially. Look at how the Rockets traded for CP3. I could see the Lakers trading for Westbrook or Lebron like this next season.

I would go as far as to say there is probably more then a 50% imo that we make a trade like this next offseason. They almost have to if they want to reach their goals.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:04 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
Why would anyone trade for Cousins at this point? Go for Free Agency.


Names man, big names!!!!!!


Still, I honestly could see them doing something like this. Sign and trade Randle and maybe even throw in Clarkson for Cousins.

Idk if NO would want to do that? They could probably get a little better deal?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:06 am    Post subject:

Tony Anapolis wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
Why would anyone trade for Cousins at this point? Go for Free Agency.


Names man, big names!!!!!!


Still, I honestly could see them doing something like this. Sign and trade Randle and maybe even throw in Clarkson for Cousins.

Idk if NO would want to do that? They could probably get a little better deal?


Again, why would Randle want to go to NO?
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