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OFFICIAL 2017 FREE AGENCY (Lakers sign Bogut)
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:41 am Post subject:

Car54 wrote:

epak wrote:

That trade needs Melos approval which won't happen.

He'd only be OK with the Cavs if Kyrie and Lebron are there? And since his buddy Lebron said he's leaving after this year, Melo only wants Houston now? I get it.

Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:50 am Post subject:

I still see LA as a darkhorse in the Melo sweepstakes, Melo wants to play with LeBron and he would probably take the chance to come here for a year until LeBron arrives in 2018. Are we more of a playoff team with Melo if we only end up giving up Deng/Clarkson/Zu/future picks I'd say yeah.

Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:53 am Post subject:

If we are in win mode which has been said by Pelinka and Magic then I think you see if you can find a way to get guys like Melo or Love to boost your playoff chances.

PRLakeShow
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Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:01 am Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

If we are in win mode which has been said by Pelinka and Magic then I think you see if you can find a way to get guys like Melo or Love to boost your playoff chances.

And ruin your chances of building a contending team. Amazing.

Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:11 am Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

If we are in win mode which has been said by Pelinka and Magic then I think you see if you can find a way to get guys like Melo or Love to boost your playoff chances.

And ruin your chances of building a contending team. Amazing.

You would still have a chance to sign a guy like LeBron next summer so in theory the core would still give you a chance to contend.

PRLakeShow
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Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:15 am Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

PRLakeShow wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

If we are in win mode which has been said by Pelinka and Magic then I think you see if you can find a way to get guys like Melo or Love to boost your playoff chances.

And ruin your chances of building a contending team. Amazing.

You would still have a chance to sign a guy like LeBron next summer so in theory the core would still give you a chance to contend.

So LeBron comes to the Lakers to play with Kevin Love who he's already playing with? Brilliant.

Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:20 am Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

PRLakeShow wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

If we are in win mode which has been said by Pelinka and Magic then I think you see if you can find a way to get guys like Melo or Love to boost your playoff chances.

And ruin your chances of building a contending team. Amazing.

You would still have a chance to sign a guy like LeBron next summer so in theory the core would still give you a chance to contend.

So LeBron comes to the Lakers to play with Kevin Love who he's already playing with? Brilliant.

Or Melo and his buddie Wade.... also if you trade for Melo or Love and sign LeBron you might have a chance to keep 1 of Randle or Lopez.

pmacla
Star Player

Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Posts: 7849
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:20 am Post subject:

The Lakers interest in either Melo or Kevin Love is less than 0% Last edited by pmacla on Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total

pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54624

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:21 am Post subject:

pmacla wrote:

The Lakers is interest in either Melo or Kevin Love is less than 0%

Thank goodness!

Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:25 am Post subject:

pmacla wrote:

The Lakers interest in either Melo or Kevin Love is less than 0%

True. But as long as there not traded there is always a chance we sneak in and make something happen... when the KCP news broke 1 of the first teams mentioned was Brooklyn with there load of cap space but when the dust settled we ended up getting KCP.

The Lakers FO always has a movie script of doing something unexpected.

pmacla
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Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Posts: 7849
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:32 am Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

pmacla wrote:

The Lakers interest in either Melo or Kevin Love is less than 0%

you agree and then try to push your agenda forward in same post smh, there is less than 0% chance either Love or Melo are ever Lakers, they have no interest in either player or contract they dont fit what they are building towards

PRLakeShow
Franchise Player

Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:39 am Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

PRLakeShow wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

PRLakeShow wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

If we are in win mode which has been said by Pelinka and Magic then I think you see if you can find a way to get guys like Melo or Love to boost your playoff chances.

And ruin your chances of building a contending team. Amazing.

You would still have a chance to sign a guy like LeBron next summer so in theory the core would still give you a chance to contend.

So LeBron comes to the Lakers to play with Kevin Love who he's already playing with? Brilliant.

Or Melo and his buddie Wade.... also if you trade for Melo or Love and sign LeBron you might have a chance to keep 1 of Randle or Lopez.

Now you're moving the goal post with Melo + Wade.

LeBron coming here to play with Love is a joke. He has a better team in Cleveland with that same player and they just got their asses handed to them.

Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:40 am Post subject:

pmacla wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

pmacla wrote:

The Lakers interest in either Melo or Kevin Love is less than 0%

I did not make my own argument to push a agenda, I stated that if you get either Love or Melo and sign LeBron you might have a chance to keep 1 of the top guys like Lopez or Randle and even KCP... Lakers have stated multiple times that there trying to win and compete right now which leaves a door open for the team to make the team better via trade.

Inspector Gadget
Retired Number

Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:44 am Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

PRLakeShow wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

PRLakeShow wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

If we are in win mode which has been said by Pelinka and Magic then I think you see if you can find a way to get guys like Melo or Love to boost your playoff chances.

And ruin your chances of building a contending team. Amazing.

You would still have a chance to sign a guy like LeBron next summer so in theory the core would still give you a chance to contend.

So LeBron comes to the Lakers to play with Kevin Love who he's already playing with? Brilliant.

Or Melo and his buddie Wade.... also if you trade for Melo or Love and sign LeBron you might have a chance to keep 1 of Randle or Lopez.

He would also play with a very good young core. LeBron probably loves the challenge of playing in the West and he knows If he leads us to the title while beating the Warriors in the process he's gonna be regarded as the GOAT.... he might prefer to do it with his running mate or his team USA teammates.

PRLakeShow
Franchise Player

Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:48 am Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

PRLakeShow wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

PRLakeShow wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

PRLakeShow wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

If we are in win mode which has been said by Pelinka and Magic then I think you see if you can find a way to get guys like Melo or Love to boost your playoff chances.

And ruin your chances of building a contending team. Amazing.

You would still have a chance to sign a guy like LeBron next summer so in theory the core would still give you a chance to contend.

So LeBron comes to the Lakers to play with Kevin Love who he's already playing with? Brilliant.

Or Melo and his buddie Wade.... also if you trade for Melo or Love and sign LeBron you might have a chance to keep 1 of Randle or Lopez.

Yeah, keep pushing your agenda when multiple posters think this is just dumb on so many levels.

kobe_4_mvp
Star Player

Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 3798

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:02 am Post subject:

03 draft class reunion is good for grand hyatt ballroom not the Lakers.

kevin61
Star Player

Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1332

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:10 am Post subject:

LaxT wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

nash wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

I thought this was a good article explaining the different FA options next year.

https://lakersoutsiders.com/2017/08/01/breaking-down-the-lakers-cap-situation-for-the-summer-of-2018/

They worked under the premise that we would like to let KCP and Lopez go, move JC and Deng and keep Randle, it looks more like a LG debate than a real analysis of the scenario, but it helps us to visualize how much we have in those scenarios.

The two-max dream again.

If James and PG do sign here, how will Randle fit? I don't think he does.

After reading the article, I feel the best option is to do a Moz+Russell type of trade again. Deng+Randle for expiring contracts. May have to throw in cash, young assets and/or picks, but that's the main package.

If not, it might be better to sign one max and pieces that fit.

Why would you want to give up that much for $7mil in cap savings? They'll stretch him and keep Randle. He plays 3,4 and 5, that fits LBJ and PG fine.

Then what?
If you stretch Deng and trade JC for nothing, you still don't get under the cap. Then if Randle signs an offer elsewhere, what do you do?

If you think Randle fits with Ball/Ingram/PG/LBJ, we will have to agree to disagree.

Quote:

As you can see, this doesn’t bring the Lakers under the cap. And short of trading some three-person combination of Larry Nance, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart and Ivica Zubac, it won’t get them under the cap.

Quite simply, the Lakers have to trade Deng.

Getting two max FA's is very doable.
You can stretch Deng, trade Clarkson for picks and stay under the cap if: LeBron takes $4.2mil less than his max, or we sign another $30mil FA like Cousins.
Read the article in the link, it explains all the options very clearly.

Everything starts with Deng because there is no way to have two max without moving him.

Two options with Deng-- trade or stretch. Clearly trade is better. More space created and another team pays his 2yr/36M remaining.

Difficult? Sure. That's why somebody valuable has to be involved. Ball and Ingram are untouchable, so it comes to Randle whose free agency is another factor in cap management. If a team offers him a front-loaded contract in early July? How do you react?

Another option of stretch + JC for nothing presents two downsides: not enough space cleared, and the possibility of Randle leaving for nothing. It is hardly a plan A in my book.

I don't think you're clear on what I'm saying.

I never proposed JC for nothing in return. Obviously, the team would try to get as much back as possible for him. Clarkson would be moved for picks, the same as Williams was. At this point all that can be said is that it seems likely that someone would take him in exchange for draft picks, his play would dictate how much, or how little, that would be.

Randle can be kept by allowing a cap hold for $12.4mil. This amount is almost exactly what Clarkson's salary would be.

Deng can be stretched at $7.6mil and either Clarkson or Randle can be kept leaving $62.8mil in cap space. PG is eligible for a max deal of $30.9mil, which leaves $31.9 for another player. Only LeBron is eligible to make more than this ($36mil) and it's my belief that he'd take the slightly lower amount if he wanted to play here. Any other FA would only be eligible for a contract of $30.9mil.
With this plan we keep Lonzo, Ingram, Randle, Nance, Kuzma, Zubac and Hart, as well as whatever Clarkson might bring in the way of picks.

That's a lot of talent with two max FA's and I don't think any other team can come close to what we'll offer.

A strategy based on stars taking less money? It's a wish, not strategy.

You still refuse to consider the possibility of Randle signing an offer sheet elsewhere. If he signs a front-loaded offer, his cap hold goes up. That is exactly what a team will do to keep the Lakers away from matching.

Bottom line-- trading Deng is better than stretching. If Randle is the cost, so be it.

Read what I wrote, only LeBron would need to take less, no other FA can be paid $36mil. If my scenario only includes one max player making a small concession and every other getting their full max deal, it isn't much of a stretch. Cousins, Westbrook, George can only be paid $30.9mil.
Randle can't sign an offer sheet if we extend a qualifying offer, period. A cap hold of $12.4mil is the cost for this. We will have his Bird Rights and can pay him whatever is needed after the max FA sign.

You need to read this.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q13
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q42

I have read that, you should too. By allowing for the $12.4mil cap hold, the Lakers could match any offer another team makes. It's just a matter of timing, the max deals go first, then we can exceed the cap with his contract.

Obviously you do not read carefully.

Quote:

A cap hold for salaries offered in offer sheets to restricted free agents (see question number 42).

Timing does matter.

Fast forward to the beginning of free agency. Randle knows his future with the Lakers depends on LBJ's willingness to take less. He also knows LBJ& PG will play the majority of minutes at both forward positions if both sign here. It is in his best interest to look for the best offers before money dries.

If team X wants Randle, how do they prevent the Lakers from matching? Front load. For example, if the first year salary is 18M, the Lakers will have 5.5M fewer space.

What do you do then? Lose Randle for nothing? Match the offer and waive goodbye to the precious two-max plan?

It will become worse if LBJ/PG/Cousins keep us waiting, Randle leaves, and none of them signs here. In short, while you want to sign two max and keep Randle, you are also taking a risk of getting none.

There are few absolute certainties in next years plan, we are dealing with a mixture of certainties, probabilities and improbabilities. Your apocolyptic scenario resides well within the category of improbabilities.

Here's some general points

!. Based on next years play,the Lakers may simply choose to keep Clarkson over Randle. This is a reasonable possibility and would make anything beyond this point irrelevant.
2.The Lakers can offer him a max rookie deal and pay him more than anyone else.
3..Your suggestion that his concern over his role would cause him to: (a) take less overall money (b) leave a premier franchise where he currently plays (c) leave a contending team with two max FA's and a solid core of young talent, is by far the greater leap of faith.

Bard207
Star Player

Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:39 pm Post subject:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

Quote:

Are you sure about those calculations?

I worked through the numbers on a $103 million salary cap and came up slightly short ($1.5 million) of being able to afford two mid tier (30%) Max contracts with the other players that you retained.

kevin61
Star Player

Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1332

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:16 pm Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

Quote:

Look at this , second graphic down
https://lakersoutsiders.com/2017/08/01/breaking-down-the-lakers-cap-situation-for-the-summer-of-2018/

Tony Anapolis
Star Player

Joined: 05 Jan 2015
Posts: 3331

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:29 pm Post subject:

Only way LA is trading for Melo is with the knowledge that he will early terminate. Which would be brilliant if they could do Deng and a future first, maybe Randle, maybe Nance? But why would NY do that? Melo would do it if he had knowledge of Lbj going to LA next season. Not to mention you have to make the numbers add up. I doubt NY takes Clarkson and Deng???

deal
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Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14912
Location: Earth

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:32 pm Post subject:

True Lakers Fan wrote:

epak wrote:

Anyone against trading for Kevin Love? I feel like he would be awesome in this offense. My crazy trade scenario since it's August...

Knicks and Cavs trade:

Kyrie and Tristan for Melo and O'Quinn

Lakers and Cavs trade:

Love for JC, Julius and Brewer

Cavs:
Rose . JC
JR . Shumpert
LeBron . Korver
Melo (love role) . Green
O'Quinn . Julius

Lakers:
Ball . Ennis
KCP . Hart
Ingram . Blue
Love . Kuzma
Lopez . Nance

Rather have Randle.

I prefer Randle over glassman
_________________
Lakers need to build a freaking team !

deal
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Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14912
Location: Earth

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:33 pm Post subject:

pio2u wrote:

pmacla wrote:

The Lakers is interest in either Melo or Kevin Love is less than 0%

Thank goodness!

👍
_________________
Lakers need to build a freaking team !

LaxT
Star Player

Joined: 23 Sep 2002
Posts: 2536

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:49 pm Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

Quote:

Probably due to cap hold of vacant spots.

Bard207
Star Player

Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:46 pm Post subject:

LaxT wrote:

Bard207 wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

Quote:

Probably due to cap hold of vacant spots.

I agree that missing cap holds for vacant roster spots/slots is the likely issue.

More details to come in a following post.

Bard207
Star Player

Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:52 pm Post subject:

kevin61 wrote:

Bard207 wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

kevin61 wrote:

LaxT wrote:

Quote:

Look at this , second graphic down
https://lakersoutsiders.com/2017/08/01/breaking-down-the-lakers-cap-situation-for-the-summer-of-2018/

I had already seen that and that is why I did my own calculations.

First, the background information.

Quote:

Section 7. Maximum Annual Salary.

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Agreement, no Player
Contract entered into on or after the effective date of this Agreement may
provide for a Salary plus Unlikely Bonuses in the first Season covered by
the Contract that exceeds the following amounts:
(i) for any player who has completed fewer than seven (7)
Years of Service, the greater of (x) twenty-five percent
(25%) of the Salary Cap in effect at the time the Contract is
executed, or (y) one hundred five percent (105%) of the
Salary for the final Season of the player’s prior Contract;
provided, however, that a player who has four (4) Years of
Service as of the June 30 following the end of the last
Season covered by his Player Contract (“5th Year Eligible
Players”) shall be eligible to receive from his Prior Team up
to thirty percent (30%) of the Salary Cap in effect at the
time the Contract is executed (the “5th Year 30% Max
Salary”) if the player has met the

Salary Cap................................30% Max...........35% Max

$102,000,000...........................$30,600,000.......$35,700,000
$102,500,000...........................$30,750,000.......$35,875,000
$103,000,000...........................$30,900,000.......$36,050,000
$103,500,000...........................$31,050,000.......$36,225,000
$104,000,000...........................$31,200,000.......$36,400,000

Quote:

Section 6. Minimum Player Salary.

...no Player Contract shall provide for a Salary of less than the applicable scale amount contained in the Minimum Annual Salary Scale applicable for such Salary Cap Year. For the 2017-18 Salary Cap Year, the Minimum Annual Salary Scale is set forth as Exhibit C hereto. For each Salary Cap Year commencing with the 2018-19 Salary Cap Year, the Minimum Annual
Salary Scale amounts shall be adjusted by applying the percentage increase
(or decrease) in the Salary Cap from the preceding Salary Cap Year to the
current Salary Cap Year. The Minimum Annual Salary Scale applicable to
a player is determined by the Salary Cap Year encompassing the first
Season covered by the player’s Contract.

Thomas Bryant is making $815,615 this season which is the minimum salary.

Current Min salary...Current Salary Cap......2018 - 19 Salary Cap.....% Increase.....2018 - 19 Min salary
$815,615.......................$99,093,000..............$102,000,000................2.93%..............$839,542
$815,615.......................$99,093,000..............$102,500,000................3.44%..............$843,657
$815,615.......................$99,093,000...............$103,000,000...............3.94% .............$847,773
$815,615.......................$99,093,000..............$103,500,000................4.45% .............$851,888
$815,615.......................$99,093,000..............$104,000,000................4.95% .............$856,004

Quote:

(f) Incomplete Rosters.

(1) If at any time from July 1 through the day prior to the first day
of the Regular Season a Team has fewer than twelve (12) players,
determined in accordance with Section 4(f)(2) below, included in

its Team Salary, then the Team’s Team Salary shall be increased by
an amount calculated as follows:
STEP 1: Subtract from twelve (12) the number of players
included in Team Salary.
STEP 2: If the result in Step 1 is a positive number, multiply the
result in Step 1 by the Minimum Annual Salary
applicable to players with zero (0) Years of Service
under the Minimum Annual Salary Scale for that Salary
Cap Year.
(2) In determining whether a Team has fewer than twelve (12)
players included in its Team Salary for purposes of Section 4(f)(1)
above only, the only players who shall be counted are (i) players
under Contract with the Team who are included in Team Salary,
(ii) Free Agents who are included in Team Salary pursuant to
Section 4(a)(2) above, (iii) players to whom Offer Sheets have been
given, and (iv) unsigned First Round Picks who are included in
Team Salary pursuant to Section 4(e) above.

65. How do released or stretched players apply to team salary? What is set-off?

Quote:

As described in question number 64, if the contract had more than $250,000 in remaining guaranteed salary, the remaining guaranteed salary is paid over twice the number of remaining years, plus one, per the Stretch provision. The team gets to choose whether the player's cap hit is stretched as well, or stays on its original schedule.

Los Angeles Lakers Team Payroll

Los Angeles Lakers Team Salary

Luol Deng for the last two seasons of his contract
$18.000,000 + $18,810,000 = $36,810,000

$36,810,000 / 5 (years) = $7,362,000

Now on to calculating the number for team salary. Cousins and Paul George will be the names used for the two 30% Max players.

The roster count to reach the minimum of 12 will be to the right of the player's name in ().

Salary Cap:
$103,000,000

$30,900,000......P George (1)
$30,900,000......D Cousins (2)

$7,461,960........L Ball (3)
$5,757,120........B Ingram (4)

$2,272,391........L Nance Jr. (5)
$1,689,840........K Kuzma (6)
$1,655,160........J Hart (7)
$1,544,951........I Zubac (8)

$12,447,727......J Randle -- Cap Hold (9)

$847,773...........Minimum Salary (10)
$847,773...........Minimum Salary (11)
$847,773...........Minimum Salary (12)

$7,362,000.........L Deng (Stretch Waiver -- $36,810,000/5)

$0........................B Lopez
$0........................K Caldwell-Pope
$0........................J Clarkson
$0........................C Brewer
$0........................T Ennis
$0........................T Bryant
_______________
$104,534,468

They are over by $1.53 million with a Salary Cap of $103 million

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