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LakersRGolden
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:27 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm anti-Tank for 2017, but here's a nice article on some of the top prospects, 6 of which are point guards.

https://theringer.com/2017-nba-draft-point-guards-markelle-fultz-dennis-smith-jr-ef66c2bf3653#.81yx3pb81


have not read the article yet, but I did recognize the top of the draft will be loaded with talented PG's.......this will not help 2nd Tier/backup PG's market value next summer such as MCW.


I'm kinda glad we got our PG of the future. If we miss out and the 76ers pick a PG with say a 5th pick, oh well.


I'm not to worried about where the pick is we finally pay. It has to happen. BUT, if we keep this year's, the pick we owe Orlando becomes 2nd rounders. That's big.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:28 am    Post subject:

LakersRGolden wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm anti-Tank for 2017, but here's a nice article on some of the top prospects, 6 of which are point guards.

https://theringer.com/2017-nba-draft-point-guards-markelle-fultz-dennis-smith-jr-ef66c2bf3653#.81yx3pb81


have not read the article yet, but I did recognize the top of the draft will be loaded with talented PG's.......this will not help 2nd Tier/backup PG's market value next summer such as MCW.


I'm kinda glad we got our PG of the future. If we miss out and the 76ers pick a PG with say a 5th pick, oh well.


I'm not to worried about where the pick is we finally pay. It has to happen. BUT, if we keep this year's, the pick we owe Orlando becomes 2nd rounders. That's big.


And as we've seen, it's pure luck. The Cavs, with the 9th projected draft spot ended up with Wiggins. No guarantees. Of course I'll take it if we get it, but it's not something you can plan for.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:55 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LakersRGolden wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm anti-Tank for 2017, but here's a nice article on some of the top prospects, 6 of which are point guards.

https://theringer.com/2017-nba-draft-point-guards-markelle-fultz-dennis-smith-jr-ef66c2bf3653#.81yx3pb81


have not read the article yet, but I did recognize the top of the draft will be loaded with talented PG's.......this will not help 2nd Tier/backup PG's market value next summer such as MCW.


I'm kinda glad we got our PG of the future. If we miss out and the 76ers pick a PG with say a 5th pick, oh well.


I'm not to worried about where the pick is we finally pay. It has to happen. BUT, if we keep this year's, the pick we owe Orlando becomes 2nd rounders. That's big.


And as we've seen, it's pure luck. The Cavs, with the 9th projected draft spot ended up with Wiggins. No guarantees. Of course I'll take it if we get it, but it's not something you can plan for.


Yes, yes. "Pure luck"
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:08 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakersRGolden wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm anti-Tank for 2017, but here's a nice article on some of the top prospects, 6 of which are point guards.

https://theringer.com/2017-nba-draft-point-guards-markelle-fultz-dennis-smith-jr-ef66c2bf3653#.81yx3pb81


have not read the article yet, but I did recognize the top of the draft will be loaded with talented PG's.......this will not help 2nd Tier/backup PG's market value next summer such as MCW.


I'm kinda glad we got our PG of the future. If we miss out and the 76ers pick a PG with say a 5th pick, oh well.


I'm not to worried about where the pick is we finally pay. It has to happen. BUT, if we keep this year's, the pick we owe Orlando becomes 2nd rounders. That's big.


And as we've seen, it's pure luck. The Cavs, with the 9th projected draft spot ended up with Wiggins. No guarantees. Of course I'll take it if we get it, but it's not something you can plan for.


Yes, yes. "Pure luck"


Heh heh. Don't all teams get 3 #1 picks in a row?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:22 am    Post subject:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20160926_Nerlens_Noel__Sixers_situation__doesn_t_make_any_sense_.html

TL;DR: I want out.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:42 am    Post subject:

Man, the Warriors' top 4 players' ages:

KD (28 in 1 day); could be FA in 2017
Steph (28); FA in 2017
Dray (26); FA in 2020
Klay (26); FA in 2019

So let's say they go on a 3-4 year run, KD/Steph will still be 31/32, Dray/Klay 29/30 years old.

Meanwhile, our young guys will be:

DLO: 23-24 (in 3-4 years)
Ingram: 22-23
Randle: 24-25
JC: 27-28
Nance: 26-27
Zubac: 22-23.

I guess we will have to bide our time, try to knock them off in a few years. However, you also have a team like the TWolves who will likely be our biggest competitor in the next 7 years, and maybe Utah.

Spurs/Clips may soon have to rebuild, and Portland has basically maxed out their credit card on a 2nd tier team.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:12 am    Post subject:

Not a fan of this concept, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more scenarios pop up:

NBA Cap Strategist ‏@colezwicker · 22m22 minutes ago

I'm here for a Clarkson/Noel trade foundation (JC can't be moved until 12/15). Of course there is an albatross $64M center in the way.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:22 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Not a fan of this concept, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more scenarios pop up:

NBA Cap Strategist ‏@colezwicker · 22m22 minutes ago

I'm here for a Clarkson/Noel trade foundation (JC can't be moved until 12/15). Of course there is an albatross $64M center in the way.


randle/noel would be pretty bad on the offensive end. I am ok if we somehow magically got rid of Mozgov


Last edited by Jim99187 on Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:25 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Not a fan of this concept, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more scenarios pop up:

NBA Cap Strategist ‏@colezwicker · 22m22 minutes ago

I'm here for a Clarkson/Noel trade foundation (JC can't be moved until 12/15). Of course there is an albatross $64M center in the way.


I think Zubac is a major element that prevents this trade from developing past the good idea fairy phase
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:27 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Not a fan of this concept, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more scenarios pop up:

NBA Cap Strategist ‏@colezwicker · 22m22 minutes ago

I'm here for a Clarkson/Noel trade foundation (JC can't be moved until 12/15). Of course there is an albatross $64M center in the way.


Who plays shooting guard if we make that move? We'd have Lou, Brown, or Nick Young. Or we could slide Russell to shooting guard and start Huertas or Calderon.

Then we'll have a logjam at center with Mozgov, Noel, Black, Zubac, and maybe Yi.

With the roster the way it is right now, I dunno if this trade actually makes us better.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:27 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Not a fan of this concept, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more scenarios pop up:

NBA Cap Strategist ‏@colezwicker · 22m22 minutes ago

I'm here for a Clarkson/Noel trade foundation (JC can't be moved until 12/15). Of course there is an albatross $64M center in the way.


I think Zubac is a major element that prevents this trade from developing past the good idea fairy phase


Agreed (and the fact I'm not keen on paying Noel possibly 20m+).

But my point is that the 12m-ish/year deal for JC makes him a good trade asset as well. Harder to make a good trade with a less than 1m deal.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:29 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Man, the Warriors' top 4 players' ages:

KD (28 in 1 day); could be FA in 2017
Steph (28); FA in 2017
Dray (26); FA in 2020
Klay (26); FA in 2019

So let's say they go on a 3-4 year run, KD/Steph will still be 31/32, Dray/Klay 29/30 years old.

Meanwhile, our young guys will be:

DLO: 23-24 (in 3-4 years)
Ingram: 22-23
Randle: 24-25
JC: 27-28
Nance: 26-27
Zubac: 22-23.

I guess we will have to bide our time, try to knock them off in a few years. However, you also have a team like the TWolves who will likely be our biggest competitor in the next 7 years, and maybe Utah.

Spurs/Clips may soon have to rebuild, and Portland has basically maxed out their credit card on a 2nd tier team.


the will come up with franchise tag concept in next cba. lets see who the warriors keep.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:38 am    Post subject:

Gotta love the unenforced tampering rules.

Quote:
Tim Bontemps: David West said the Warriors reached out to his agent as soon as the Spurs lost to the Thunder in the Western Conference semifinals. – via Twitter TimBontemps

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:16 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Not a fan of this concept, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more scenarios pop up:

NBA Cap Strategist ‏@colezwicker · 22m22 minutes ago

I'm here for a Clarkson/Noel trade foundation (JC can't be moved until 12/15). Of course there is an albatross $64M center in the way.


I think Zubac is a major element that prevents this trade from developing past the good idea fairy phase


Not to be negative on Mozgov, but I'm hoping for a solid season from him along with Zubac showing enough at the end of the year, that he could possibly take the starting C spot in 2017-2018. If that's the case, we could possibly pick up an asset for a team in need of a C with the weak C free agent crop in 2017. Sign Amir Johnson or Taj Gibson and go with Zubac/Gibson up front at the C spot
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:30 am    Post subject:

Jim99187 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Not a fan of this concept, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more scenarios pop up:

NBA Cap Strategist ‏@colezwicker · 22m22 minutes ago

I'm here for a Clarkson/Noel trade foundation (JC can't be moved until 12/15). Of course there is an albatross $64M center in the way.


randle/noel would be pretty bad on the offensive end. I am ok if we somehow magically got rid of Mozgov


Noel is horrible on the offensive end. If we wanted that we should have just signed Biyombo and kept Clarkson.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:53 am    Post subject:

Tjarks is one of my favorite new NBA writers, had this nice thing (sort of) to say about the Lakers future:

Quote:
The biggest change for the Mavs this offseason wasn’t any one transaction; it was the reality that building around Dirk can no longer be their main priority. They had to start looking toward the future. A noncontending team whose best player is 38 doesn’t really have a choice. It’s similar to the situation the Lakers were in with Kobe Bryant in his last few years in the NBA; the Mavs gave Dirk a two-year, $50 million lifetime-achievement contract. The difference is there’s no D’Angelo Russell, Julius Randle, or Brandon Ingram in Dallas. There’s not even a Jordan Clarkson. The closest thing the Mavs have to that type of high-upside flier is Barnes. The Mavericks spent the past five years looking for players to complement Dirk. They might have just ended up with the guy who is going to replace him.


https://theringer.com/harrison-barnes-dallas-mavericks-second-chance-5ee9f7c46440#.l8h5hubae
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:28 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm anti-Tank for 2017, but here's a nice article on some of the top prospects, 6 of which are point guards.

https://theringer.com/2017-nba-draft-point-guards-markelle-fultz-dennis-smith-jr-ef66c2bf3653#.81yx3pb81

Fultz is less athletic than DLO. But has a ridiculous 6'10'' wingspan.
And that French guy! He looks like his wingspan is greater (proportional to his body) than Fultz! Looks like he can itch his knee standing straight up. Ridiculous. What lab are they growing these guys in?
I still prefer Dennis Smith over every other PG. But I can understand if a person prefers Fultz.

I have a feeling Josh Jackson's game will be a little more offensively advanced than Winslow and Jaylen Brown at the same age. I kinda see JJ's offensive game as the exact opposite of Stanley Johnson. JJ can attack a close out and finish at the rim with authority. Stanley can't do that but has a fantastic polish on his in between game for his age (floaters, runners, pullups, layups off the dribble through contact). If JJ can hit spot up shots coming off of off-ball screens, his offensive skillset will be similar to Lavine. Except in a stronger, taller SF body.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:41 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm anti-Tank for 2017, but here's a nice article on some of the top prospects, 6 of which are point guards.

https://theringer.com/2017-nba-draft-point-guards-markelle-fultz-dennis-smith-jr-ef66c2bf3653#.81yx3pb81

Fultz is less athletic than DLO. But has a ridiculous 6'10'' wingspan.
And that French guy! He looks like his wingspan is greater (proportional to his body) than Fultz! Looks like he can itch his knee standing straight up. Ridiculous. What lab are they growing these guys in?
I still prefer Dennis Smith over every other PG. But I can understand if a person prefers Fultz.

I have a feeling Josh Jackson's game will be a little more offensively advanced than Winslow and Jaylen Brown at the same age. I kinda see JJ's offensive game as the exact opposite of Stanley Johnson. JJ can attack a close out and finish at the rim with authority. Stanley can't do that but has a fantastic polish on his in between game for his age (floaters, runners, pullups, layups off the dribble through contact). If JJ can hit spot up shots coming off of off-ball screens, his offensive skillset will be similar to Lavine. Except in a stronger, taller SF body.


I'm honestly looking to the 2018 class. I want to say we'll be contending for an 8th seed in 2017-18, but if not, we have an unencumbered pick if we fall out of top 3 in 2017.

Not sure if a top 3 pick is attractive to a top FA unless we are trading it. Not sure how long the Buss/Mitch regime lives if we are shooting for what would be a 5th consecutive lottery in 2017-18 assuming we rely on the young guys and miss out on top FAs.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:48 am    Post subject:

^I've kinda taken a hippie Hakuna Matata approach to the FO. Whatever happens, happens. Kinda like how people are worried about Ingram (not starting) and Zubac (probably out of rotation) getting enough minutes playing behind Deng and Mozgov. My feeling is, if they are good enough, they'll play. If they aren't, I don't want them playing in that role right now anyways.

If our FO does a good enough job to keep their jobs, good! If not, I'll embrace change. Chances are it isn't much worse than where we are now.

Drafts are so random, so I don't get discouraged if we have to get more lottery picks than we originally though. It's not like the draft is some sentient being that purposely releases league-changing prospects certain years, for certain rebuilding teams.
What matters is getting the right group of young guys through the draft. And it's a random crapshoot. So many factors. So patience is a virtue.

I'm also not convinced a low 20 win team verse a high 20 win team makes much of a difference to FAs.
With all that said, I'm still anti tank. Want us to win as many games as possible. Just for the sake of instilling confidence in our young and coaching staff.
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Last edited by kikanga on Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:49 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
^I've kinda taken a hippie Hakuna Matata approach to the FO. Whatever happens, happens. Kinda like how people are worried about Ingram (not starting) and Zubac (probably out of rotation) getting enough minutes playing behind Deng and Mozgov. My feeling is, if they are good enough, they'll play. If they aren't, I don't want them playing in that role right now anyways.

If our FO does a good enough job to keep their jobs, good! If not, I'll embrace change. Chances are it isn't much worse than where we are now.

Drafts are so random, so I don't get discouraged if we have to get more lottery picks than we originally though. It's not like the draft is some sentient being that purposely releases league-changing prospects certain years, for certain rebuilding teams.
What matters is getting the right group of young guys through the draft. And it's a random crapshoot. So many factors. So patience is a virtue.


My feeling is if we're blessed with a top 3 pick, it's likely traded, or one or 2 of our current young guys are traded for a veteran star and then we sign a star via FA.

Actually in reality, we'll TRY to.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:55 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
^I've kinda taken a hippie Hakuna Matata approach to the FO. Whatever happens, happens. Kinda like how people are worried about Ingram (not starting) and Zubac (probably out of rotation) getting enough minutes playing behind Deng and Mozgov. My feeling is, if they are good enough, they'll play. If they aren't, I don't want them playing in that role right now anyways.

If our FO does a good enough job to keep their jobs, good! If not, I'll embrace change. Chances are it isn't much worse than where we are now.

Drafts are so random, so I don't get discouraged if we have to get more lottery picks than we originally though. It's not like the draft is some sentient being that purposely releases league-changing prospects certain years, for certain rebuilding teams.
What matters is getting the right group of young guys through the draft. And it's a random crapshoot. So many factors. So patience is a virtue.


My feeling is if we're blessed with a top 3 pick, it's likely traded, or one or 2 of our current young guys are traded for a veteran star and then we sign a star via FA.

Actually in reality, we'll TRY to.



Well my hippie perspective is ready for either situation. Whether we can grab stars next offseason or not. Kinda like how everybody is saying, "just trust the process". Wins don't matter, we just want to see progression/improvement on the court.
That's how I feel about the FO. Just keep making the right decisions. If we can't trade the pick, draft well. Make trades that properly balance winning, development, and salary cap factors (be it preserving flexibility if the cap is expected to drop in the new CBA, or extending/re-signing our young guys to the right value contracts).
That's all our FO can do. And whether they keep their jobs or not moving forward, hopefully the franchise will progressively improve.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:57 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
^I've kinda taken a hippie Hakuna Matata approach to the FO. Whatever happens, happens. Kinda like how people are worried about Ingram (not starting) and Zubac (probably out of rotation) getting enough minutes playing behind Deng and Mozgov. My feeling is, if they are good enough, they'll play. If they aren't, I don't want them playing in that role right now anyways.

If our FO does a good enough job to keep their jobs, good! If not, I'll embrace change. Chances are it isn't much worse than where we are now.

Drafts are so random, so I don't get discouraged if we have to get more lottery picks than we originally though. It's not like the draft is some sentient being that purposely releases league-changing prospects certain years, for certain rebuilding teams.
What matters is getting the right group of young guys through the draft. And it's a random crapshoot. So many factors. So patience is a virtue.


My feeling is if we're blessed with a top 3 pick, it's likely traded, or one or 2 of our current young guys are traded for a veteran star and then we sign a star via FA.

Actually in reality, we'll TRY to.



Well my hippie perspective is ready for either situation. Whether we can grab stars next offseason or not. Kinda like how everybody is saying, "just trust the process". Wins don't matter, we just want to see progression/improvement on the court.
That's how I feel about the FO. Just keep making the right decisions. If we can't trade the pick, draft well. Make trades that properly balance winning, development, and salary cap factors (be it preserving flexibility if the cap is expected to drop in the new CBA, or not preserving flexibility if the cap is expected to keep going up).
That all our FO can do. And whether they keep their jobs or not moving forward, hopefully the franchise will progressively improve.


We're in accumulation mode, but in a few years, Randle, DLO, Nance, Ingram, Zubac go off rookie deals. Short window.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:23 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Tjarks is one of my favorite new NBA writers, had this nice thing (sort of) to say about the Lakers future:

Quote:
The biggest change for the Mavs this offseason wasn’t any one transaction; it was the reality that building around Dirk can no longer be their main priority. They had to start looking toward the future. A noncontending team whose best player is 38 doesn’t really have a choice. It’s similar to the situation the Lakers were in with Kobe Bryant in his last few years in the NBA; the Mavs gave Dirk a two-year, $50 million lifetime-achievement contract. The difference is there’s no D’Angelo Russell, Julius Randle, or Brandon Ingram in Dallas. There’s not even a Jordan Clarkson. The closest thing the Mavs have to that type of high-upside flier is Barnes. The Mavericks spent the past five years looking for players to complement Dirk. They might have just ended up with the guy who is going to replace him.


https://theringer.com/harrison-barnes-dallas-mavericks-second-chance-5ee9f7c46440#.l8h5hubae



Agewise, Kobe and Dirk can be grouped together while their two teams aren't on the same timeline.

The Mavericks appear to be the area of the 2012 - 2013 Lakers (45 - 37) or the 2013 - 2014 Lakers (27 - 55).
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:40 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Tjarks is one of my favorite new NBA writers, had this nice thing (sort of) to say about the Lakers future:

Quote:
The biggest change for the Mavs this offseason wasn’t any one transaction; it was the reality that building around Dirk can no longer be their main priority. They had to start looking toward the future. A noncontending team whose best player is 38 doesn’t really have a choice. It’s similar to the situation the Lakers were in with Kobe Bryant in his last few years in the NBA; the Mavs gave Dirk a two-year, $50 million lifetime-achievement contract. The difference is there’s no D’Angelo Russell, Julius Randle, or Brandon Ingram in Dallas. There’s not even a Jordan Clarkson. The closest thing the Mavs have to that type of high-upside flier is Barnes. The Mavericks spent the past five years looking for players to complement Dirk. They might have just ended up with the guy who is going to replace him.


https://theringer.com/harrison-barnes-dallas-mavericks-second-chance-5ee9f7c46440#.l8h5hubae



Agewise, Kobe and Dirk can be grouped together while their two teams aren't on the same timeline.

The Mavericks appear to be the area of the 2012 - 2013 Lakers (45 - 37) or the 2013 - 2014 Lakers (27 - 55).


Man, once Dirk retires. That team is going to be a hot mess. They're not bad enough to get meaningful draft picks to develop.

I guess this is prime reason #1 why the Lakers adopted to go all the way down the drain after Howard/Pau left and gather draft picks (and thanks to some lottery luck).
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Bard207
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:54 am    Post subject:

They will need Rick Carlisle to leave if they want respectable odds on getting a few high draft picks.
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