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EZ-Ryder
Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 843
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 Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | EZ-Ryder wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Dilla_ wrote: | I don't know if anyone has seen this yet Dan Favale from Bleacher Report predicts how much some FAs will make this summer.
JaMychal Green - Four years, $76 million
Tim Hardaway Jr - Four years, $58 million
Serge Ibaka - Four years, $108 million
Patty Mills - Four years, $70 million
Nerlens Noel - Four years, $90 million
Mason Plumlee - Four years, $60 million
JJ Redick - Four years, $74 million
Andre Roberson - Four years, $88 million
Derrick Rose - Three years, $42 million
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2704610-he-made-how-much-predicting-the-worst-contracts-of-2017-nba-offseason |
88 million for Roberson?? So he's gonna get more than Oladipo??
Truth be told, I really like Roberson. I think his defense is so good, he's worth signing and praying his jump shot falls. But I don't think anyone gives him that. Lot of guys on that list I like, but short of Ibaka, I don't see us going after any of them. |
I think Roberson gets that money. He's the second best perimeter defender in the league behind Leonard and impacts the game more significantly than anyone outside of NBA front offices probably realizes. Here is a look at some of the top NBA players effective shooting percentage normally and then against Roberson.
Kawhi leonard. 55%. 44% with Roberson guarding.
James harden. 69%. 28% Roberson guarding.
LeBron James. 63%. 43% with Roberson guarding.
Demar derozan. 70%. 50% with Roberson guarding.
Gordon hayward.70%. 40% with Roberson guarding.
His numbers aren't sexy, but dude impacts the game defensively in ways only shared by leonard, draymond, and gobert. |
I love Roberson's defense, but you just can't run a proper offense with him on the perimeter. He's a disruptive force on the defensive end, but also one on the offensive end for the wrong reason. |
Not saying id give him the money, but I think some NBA team is going to look at the analytics and overpay him. I personally value him somewhere in the 4 year 64 million dollar area, but if Chandler Parsons can rob teams the way he has, roberson who is actually useful should have no problem. |
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Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | 5-on-5: Will Pacers trade Paul George? Should they?
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1. The Pacers _________ trade Paul George this offseason.
A. Should and will
B. Should but won't
C. Shouldn't but will
D. Shouldn't and won't
Amin Elhassan, ESPN Insider: A. If (and only if) George does not make the All-NBA team this season. Should he be named to such an honor, the Pacers would be eligible to offer him a deal that would be about $70 million more lucrative than any other open-market offer, a sum that would certainly keep him in a Pacers uniform. However, without that safety net, the Pacers would face too large a flight risk, and so they'd be better off moving aggressively rather than waiting.
Chris Herring, FiveThirtyEight/ESPN.com: A. Dropping this series in frustrating fashion doesn't help the case to keep him. But at this point, without the potential lure of extra money through the Designated Player Exception (DPE), I don't think you can risk losing someone that talented -- for nothing -- in his prime, especially not when there are reports saying he's interested in going elsewhere. Go acquire a pick or two to get players closer in age to Myles Turner.
Bradford Doolittle, ESPN Insider: D. Trading George signals a total rebuild. It's easy to say that's what needs to happen. However, with Indiana, you're talking about an 82-year-old owner (Herb Simon) and a 60-year-old hoops executive (Larry Bird). The Pacers have the flexibility to make themselves over this summer, and they need to make a run at doing so before dealing away an irreplaceable talent.
Jeremias Engelmann, ESPN Insider: Probably B. There's certainly a case to be made for dealing him and "blowing it up." The Pacers have finished seventh in the East and been ousted in the first round two straight years. Before that, they finished ninth. They're the mayors of "no man's land."
Kevin Pelton, ESPN Insider: D. I'm not convinced the Pacers can get enough value from teams that aren't certain they can re-sign George -- or from the Los Angeles Lakers if they believe they can sign him without having to give up picks or young players in return -- to justify giving up the chance he makes the All-NBA Team next year. While George probably can't maintain his level of play over the last month for a full season, if he comes close, there will probably be an All-NBA spot for him.
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2. What else do you foresee and advise for the Pacers this offseason?
Herring: Depending on what happens with George, it may make sense to tear the process all the way down and start over. If you end up keeping him, which is risky for any number of reasons, you need to substantially improve the team to make sure he doesn't go into free agency next summer disappointed with the direction of the franchise.
That means finding guys who would be upgrades over Jeff Teague and C.J. Miles. Since I don't have faith they can convince those sorts of talents to play for a stagnant Pacers team, I'd probably advise dealing George and starting over.
Elhassan: Obviously, the George domino will dictate much of the direction Indiana should take. If George is to be moved, the most prudent course of action is to divest themselves of the other large salaries on the books (Thaddeus Young and Monta Ellis to start) and begin to craft the next vision of Pacers basketball around Myles Turner.
Doolittle: We'll see just how much the Pacers are hamstrung by the contracts Bird has given out that last couple of years for middling players like Ellis, Thaddeus Young and Al Jefferson. The Pacers should re-sign Teague, who not only fits well with George, but gives Indiana the chance to play faster if the right roster is put into place.
Then they need to make a run at Hoosier State native Gordon Hayward, clearing cap space as needed. A core four of George, Teague, Hayward and Turner would need only to be augmented with a 3-and-D wing to be a dynamite unit.
Engelmann: Teague has played well for the Pacers (real plus-minus: 1.5). If they can retain him for less than 80 percent of the max, they should.
Miles, if he's smart, will opt out. On the free agent market, he'll command more than double the $4.7 million he is making now. He also should be re-signed if the price is right, say, $13 million per season.
Pelton: A relatively quiet offseason, presuming Indiana is able to re-sign Jeff Teague at a reasonable price. If so, Teague's cap hold will swallow up most of the Pacers' cap space, particularly if C.J. Miles opts out (a virtual certainty) and re-signs. The Pacers could tweak their backup frontcourt rotation, but I think that's about it.
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3. Larry Bird wants the Pacers to play fast. How do they get there?
Pelton: Not with Nate McMillan as coach, given that this was the second-fastest team relative to league average he's coached for a full season (and the fastest since the 2003-04 Seattle SuperSonics).
But I'm not sure that playing faster would make Indiana a better team. The relationship between pace and performance remains a tenuous one at best. The bottom 10 teams in pace this season actually posted a better offensive rating (106.2) than the top 10 (105.6). And the middle third, in which the Pacers resided, were better yet (106.9).
Engelmann: By replacing coach Nate McMillan? His Trail Blazer teams were continuously among the slowest teams in the NBA. Playing fast simply doesn't appear to be his style. That said, pace isn't strongly correlated with team success, so it seems kind of pointless to shoehorn a roster that might rather play slow into a different style.
Elhassan: First of all, having a coach with a track record of coaching fast would be a nice start. Next, not stocking the roster with notorious plodders and ball stoppers. Third, adding some more pass-first, quick-decision-making talents.
Herring: This was one of those things that made the Nate McMillan hire so strange to me in the first place, given that his teams had a reputation for playing so slowly.
But if I were Bird watching this series, I'd be far more concerned with finding a way to regain the defensive edge the Pacers had three or four years ago. You can win big without playing fast, but it's much harder to accomplish that without playing defense. Cleveland may be able to do it, but the Pacers probably can't.
Doolittle: Follow my plan in No. 2 and the Pacers can play fast. This year's roster just had too many plodders -- Jefferson, Kevin Seraphin, Lavoy Allen and, arguably, Young. Of course, this is all contingent on getting George to play the 4 and like it.
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4. Fact or fiction: Myles Turner is the future superstar cornerstone for Indiana.
Elhassan: Faction. He's a tremendous shot blocker and defensive presence with a more than respectable perimeter stroke that extends to 3-point range. He might not be a superstar, but he's a pretty good asset to have in the cupboard, with a skill set that will fit in nearly any incarnation of a winning team.
Pelton: Fiction. I think it's unlikely that Turner develops into a top-10 player given his current trajectory. A more realistic outcome is him emerging as a top-25 player who's an All-Star most years. That could be a cornerstone piece, but I wouldn't call that a superstar.
Herring: Both. He becomes the player you build around if George walks. But based on what we've seen so far -- a ton of ability and athleticism, but likely still a rung beneath someone like Karl-Anthony Towns or Nikola Jokic -- you still need to find more young running mates for him to experience sustainable teamwide success. I'm not sure Turner's talent alone gets you there in the future.
Doolittle: Assuming his game continues to grow, Turner should be a foundation-quality player for a team in contention. I'm not sure I see him as a cornerstone because he's not a a great offensive creator, either for himself or others. But maybe he can get there.
As for his combo skills of deep shooting and shot-blocking, it's funny how much less rare that package now seems after basically half of the centers in the NBA took to shooting 3-pointers.
Engelmann: Fact, or at least, I think so. Turner just turned 21 and is one of the top 40 players in the NBA, according to Real Plus-Minus. He's a "modern" center that can shoot 3s, and he also gets steals and blocks while not turning the ball over often. His rebounding needs some work, though; currently, he grabs only 6.3 defensive boards per 36 minutes.
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5. If Pacers were a stock and you were looking three years ahead, would you buy, sell or hold?
Herring: Sell. If George departs, things would get ugly. But that'd still be best for the long-term growth of the franchise, which has made the playoffs 22 of the past 28 seasons.
George, a former No. 10 pick, is the only top-10 selection the Pacers have had in 20 years. It's so hard to find franchise-altering talent without being a high-end lottery team. The next few years would be painful, which is why I'd sell. But the long-term outlook would improve.
Elhassan: Hold. While I'm not completely sold on Larry Bird's idea of how to rebuild this team, history tells us that Indiana is very rarely awful. Any George trade is sure to net a luxurious haul, and as I mentioned above, Turner is a nice piece to build around in the meanwhile.
Doolittle: Sell. The path to immediate contention -- landing a premier free agent in addition to keeping Teague -- is a long shot. If George wants out at some point, then you're starting at ground level. You don't get from there to relevancy in three years, especially when the process has yet to start as of the close of the 2016-17 season.
Engelmann: Hold. Pacers management has been pretty average when it comes to putting together a competitive team. Their roster decisions are never home runs. Rather, they include some head-scratchers, like the recent George Hill trade.
Pelton: Hold. While I think Turner's a good enough centerpiece that Indiana would probably be undervalued by the market because of concern about George leaving, I don't feel confident enough about the Pacers' ability to put a winning team around Turner to actually buy up shares. Turner might be the only player on the current roster more likely than not to still be around in three years.
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You should give up changing the color attributes on the text since you are struggling doing it.
If you wish, I can easily fix it for you. Just let me know what you want it to look like. |
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Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | 5-on-5: Will Pacers trade Paul George? Should they?
| Quote: |
1. The Pacers _________ trade Paul George this offseason.
A. Should and will
B. Should but won't
C. Shouldn't but will
D. Shouldn't and won't
Amin Elhassan, ESPN Insider: A. If (and only if) George does not make the All-NBA team this season. Should he be named to such an honor, the Pacers would be eligible to offer him a deal that would be about $70 million more lucrative than any other open-market offer, a sum that would certainly keep him in a Pacers uniform. However, without that safety net, the Pacers would face too large a flight risk, and so they'd be better off moving aggressively rather than waiting.
Chris Herring, FiveThirtyEight/ESPN.com: A. Dropping this series in frustrating fashion doesn't help the case to keep him. But at this point, without the potential lure of extra money through the Designated Player Exception (DPE), I don't think you can risk losing someone that talented -- for nothing -- in his prime, especially not when there are reports saying he's interested in going elsewhere. Go acquire a pick or two to get players closer in age to Myles Turner.
Bradford Doolittle, ESPN Insider: D. Trading George signals a total rebuild. It's easy to say that's what needs to happen. However, with Indiana, you're talking about an 82-year-old owner (Herb Simon) and a 60-year-old hoops executive (Larry Bird). The Pacers have the flexibility to make themselves over this summer, and they need to make a run at doing so before dealing away an irreplaceable talent.
Jeremias Engelmann, ESPN Insider: Probably B. There's certainly a case to be made for dealing him and "blowing it up." The Pacers have finished seventh in the East and been ousted in the first round two straight years. Before that, they finished ninth. They're the mayors of "no man's land."
Kevin Pelton, ESPN Insider: D. I'm not convinced the Pacers can get enough value from teams that aren't certain they can re-sign George -- or from the Los Angeles Lakers if they believe they can sign him without having to give up picks or young players in return -- to justify giving up the chance he makes the All-NBA Team next year. While George probably can't maintain his level of play over the last month for a full season, if he comes close, there will probably be an All-NBA spot for him.
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2. What else do you foresee and advise for the Pacers this offseason?
Herring: Depending on what happens with George, it may make sense to tear the process all the way down and start over. If you end up keeping him, which is risky for any number of reasons, you need to substantially improve the team to make sure he doesn't go into free agency next summer disappointed with the direction of the franchise.
That means finding guys who would be upgrades over Jeff Teague and C.J. Miles. Since I don't have faith they can convince those sorts of talents to play for a stagnant Pacers team, I'd probably advise dealing George and starting over.
Elhassan: Obviously, the George domino will dictate much of the direction Indiana should take. If George is to be moved, the most prudent course of action is to divest themselves of the other large salaries on the books (Thaddeus Young and Monta Ellis to start) and begin to craft the next vision of Pacers basketball around Myles Turner.
Doolittle: We'll see just how much the Pacers are hamstrung by the contracts Bird has given out that last couple of years for middling players like Ellis, Thaddeus Young and Al Jefferson. The Pacers should re-sign Teague, who not only fits well with George, but gives Indiana the chance to play faster if the right roster is put into place.
Then they need to make a run at Hoosier State native Gordon Hayward, clearing cap space as needed. A core four of George, Teague, Hayward and Turner would need only to be augmented with a 3-and-D wing to be a dynamite unit.
Engelmann: Teague has played well for the Pacers (real plus-minus: 1.5). If they can retain him for less than 80 percent of the max, they should.
Miles, if he's smart, will opt out. On the free agent market, he'll command more than double the $4.7 million he is making now. He also should be re-signed if the price is right, say, $13 million per season.
Pelton: A relatively quiet offseason, presuming Indiana is able to re-sign Jeff Teague at a reasonable price. If so, Teague's cap hold will swallow up most of the Pacers' cap space, particularly if C.J. Miles opts out (a virtual certainty) and re-signs. The Pacers could tweak their backup frontcourt rotation, but I think that's about it.
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3. Larry Bird wants the Pacers to play fast. How do they get there?
Pelton: Not with Nate McMillan as coach, given that this was the second-fastest team relative to league average he's coached for a full season (and the fastest since the 2003-04 Seattle SuperSonics).
But I'm not sure that playing faster would make Indiana a better team. The relationship between pace and performance remains a tenuous one at best. The bottom 10 teams in pace this season actually posted a better offensive rating (106.2) than the top 10 (105.6). And the middle third, in which the Pacers resided, were better yet (106.9).
Engelmann: By replacing coach Nate McMillan? His Trail Blazer teams were continuously among the slowest teams in the NBA. Playing fast simply doesn't appear to be his style. That said, pace isn't strongly correlated with team success, so it seems kind of pointless to shoehorn a roster that might rather play slow into a different style.
Elhassan: First of all, having a coach with a track record of coaching fast would be a nice start. Next, not stocking the roster with notorious plodders and ball stoppers. Third, adding some more pass-first, quick-decision-making talents.
Herring: This was one of those things that made the Nate McMillan hire so strange to me in the first place, given that his teams had a reputation for playing so slowly.
But if I were Bird watching this series, I'd be far more concerned with finding a way to regain the defensive edge the Pacers had three or four years ago. You can win big without playing fast, but it's much harder to accomplish that without playing defense. Cleveland may be able to do it, but the Pacers probably can't.
Doolittle: Follow my plan in No. 2 and the Pacers can play fast. This year's roster just had too many plodders -- Jefferson, Kevin Seraphin, Lavoy Allen and, arguably, Young. Of course, this is all contingent on getting George to play the 4 and like it.
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4. Fact or fiction: Myles Turner is the future superstar cornerstone for Indiana.
Elhassan: Faction. He's a tremendous shot blocker and defensive presence with a more than respectable perimeter stroke that extends to 3-point range. He might not be a superstar, but he's a pretty good asset to have in the cupboard, with a skill set that will fit in nearly any incarnation of a winning team.
Pelton: Fiction. I think it's unlikely that Turner develops into a top-10 player given his current trajectory. A more realistic outcome is him emerging as a top-25 player who's an All-Star most years. That could be a cornerstone piece, but I wouldn't call that a superstar.
Herring: Both. He becomes the player you build around if George walks. But based on what we've seen so far -- a ton of ability and athleticism, but likely still a rung beneath someone like Karl-Anthony Towns or Nikola Jokic -- you still need to find more young running mates for him to experience sustainable teamwide success. I'm not sure Turner's talent alone gets you there in the future.
Doolittle: Assuming his game continues to grow, Turner should be a foundation-quality player for a team in contention. I'm not sure I see him as a cornerstone because he's not a a great offensive creator, either for himself or others. But maybe he can get there.
As for his combo skills of deep shooting and shot-blocking, it's funny how much less rare that package now seems after basically half of the centers in the NBA took to shooting 3-pointers.
Engelmann: Fact, or at least, I think so. Turner just turned 21 and is one of the top 40 players in the NBA, according to Real Plus-Minus. He's a "modern" center that can shoot 3s, and he also gets steals and blocks while not turning the ball over often. His rebounding needs some work, though; currently, he grabs only 6.3 defensive boards per 36 minutes.
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5. If Pacers were a stock and you were looking three years ahead, would you buy, sell or hold?
Herring: Sell. If George departs, things would get ugly. But that'd still be best for the long-term growth of the franchise, which has made the playoffs 22 of the past 28 seasons.
George, a former No. 10 pick, is the only top-10 selection the Pacers have had in 20 years. It's so hard to find franchise-altering talent without being a high-end lottery team. The next few years would be painful, which is why I'd sell. But the long-term outlook would improve.
Elhassan: Hold. While I'm not completely sold on Larry Bird's idea of how to rebuild this team, history tells us that Indiana is very rarely awful. Any George trade is sure to net a luxurious haul, and as I mentioned above, Turner is a nice piece to build around in the meanwhile.
Doolittle: Sell. The path to immediate contention -- landing a premier free agent in addition to keeping Teague -- is a long shot. If George wants out at some point, then you're starting at ground level. You don't get from there to relevancy in three years, especially when the process has yet to start as of the close of the 2016-17 season.
Engelmann: Hold. Pacers management has been pretty average when it comes to putting together a competitive team. Their roster decisions are never home runs. Rather, they include some head-scratchers, like the recent George Hill trade.
Pelton: Hold. While I think Turner's a good enough centerpiece that Indiana would probably be undervalued by the market because of concern about George leaving, I don't feel confident enough about the Pacers' ability to put a winning team around Turner to actually buy up shares. Turner might be the only player on the current roster more likely than not to still be around in three years.
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| EZ-Ryder wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | EZ-Ryder wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Dilla_ wrote: | I don't know if anyone has seen this yet Dan Favale from Bleacher Report predicts how much some FAs will make this summer.
JaMychal Green - Four years, $76 million
Tim Hardaway Jr - Four years, $58 million
Serge Ibaka - Four years, $108 million
Patty Mills - Four years, $70 million
Nerlens Noel - Four years, $90 million
Mason Plumlee - Four years, $60 million
JJ Redick - Four years, $74 million
Andre Roberson - Four years, $88 million
Derrick Rose - Three years, $42 million
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2704610-he-made-how-much-predicting-the-worst-contracts-of-2017-nba-offseason |
88 million for Roberson?? So he's gonna get more than Oladipo??
Truth be told, I really like Roberson. I think his defense is so good, he's worth signing and praying his jump shot falls. But I don't think anyone gives him that. Lot of guys on that list I like, but short of Ibaka, I don't see us going after any of them. |
I think Roberson gets that money. He's the second best perimeter defender in the league behind Leonard and impacts the game more significantly than anyone outside of NBA front offices probably realizes. Here is a look at some of the top NBA players effective shooting percentage normally and then against Roberson.
Kawhi leonard. 55%. 44% with Roberson guarding.
James harden. 69%. 28% Roberson guarding.
LeBron James. 63%. 43% with Roberson guarding.
Demar derozan. 70%. 50% with Roberson guarding.
Gordon hayward.70%. 40% with Roberson guarding.
His numbers aren't sexy, but dude impacts the game defensively in ways only shared by leonard, draymond, and gobert. |
I love Roberson's defense, but you just can't run a proper offense with him on the perimeter. He's a disruptive force on the defensive end, but also one on the offensive end for the wrong reason. |
Not saying id give him the money, but I think some NBA team is going to look at the analytics and overpay him. I personally value him somewhere in the 4 year 64 million dollar area, but if Chandler Parsons can rob teams the way he has, roberson who is actually useful should have no problem. |
Actually, if they look at the analytics, they argue against overpaying him.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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USCandLakers
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 19955
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| EZ-Ryder wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | EZ-Ryder wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Dilla_ wrote: | I don't know if anyone has seen this yet Dan Favale from Bleacher Report predicts how much some FAs will make this summer.
JaMychal Green - Four years, $76 million
Tim Hardaway Jr - Four years, $58 million
Serge Ibaka - Four years, $108 million
Patty Mills - Four years, $70 million
Nerlens Noel - Four years, $90 million
Mason Plumlee - Four years, $60 million
JJ Redick - Four years, $74 million
Andre Roberson - Four years, $88 million
Derrick Rose - Three years, $42 million
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2704610-he-made-how-much-predicting-the-worst-contracts-of-2017-nba-offseason |
88 million for Roberson?? So he's gonna get more than Oladipo??
Truth be told, I really like Roberson. I think his defense is so good, he's worth signing and praying his jump shot falls. But I don't think anyone gives him that. Lot of guys on that list I like, but short of Ibaka, I don't see us going after any of them. |
I think Roberson gets that money. He's the second best perimeter defender in the league behind Leonard and impacts the game more significantly than anyone outside of NBA front offices probably realizes. Here is a look at some of the top NBA players effective shooting percentage normally and then against Roberson.
Kawhi leonard. 55%. 44% with Roberson guarding.
James harden. 69%. 28% Roberson guarding.
LeBron James. 63%. 43% with Roberson guarding.
Demar derozan. 70%. 50% with Roberson guarding.
Gordon hayward.70%. 40% with Roberson guarding.
His numbers aren't sexy, but dude impacts the game defensively in ways only shared by leonard, draymond, and gobert. |
I love Roberson's defense, but you just can't run a proper offense with him on the perimeter. He's a disruptive force on the defensive end, but also one on the offensive end for the wrong reason. |
Not saying id give him the money, but I think some NBA team is going to look at the analytics and overpay him. I personally value him somewhere in the 4 year 64 million dollar area, but if Chandler Parsons can rob teams the way he has, roberson who is actually useful should have no problem. |
If he performs the fusion dance with Doug McDermott, yes.
_________________
A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made.  Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
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CRoost
Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4791
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| iimarshon wrote: | | Would you trade Clarkson or Randle for Carmelo if it meant we could get rid of Deng (and Knicks took his contract on)? |
Hell naw. Melo is no longer the elite scorer he was and he's not fit for Luke system. Too much blackhole and terrible defensively. Too much negatives will outweigh whatever left on his game offensively. |
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january
Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 106
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Dilla_ wrote: | I don't know if anyone has seen this yet Dan Favale from Bleacher Report predicts how much some FAs will make this summer.
JaMychal Green - Four years, $76 million
Tim Hardaway Jr - Four years, $58 million
Serge Ibaka - Four years, $108 million
Patty Mills - Four years, $70 million
Nerlens Noel - Four years, $90 million
Mason Plumlee - Four years, $60 million
JJ Redick - Four years, $74 million
Andre Roberson - Four years, $88 million
Derrick Rose - Three years, $42 million
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2704610-he-made-how-much-predicting-the-worst-contracts-of-2017-nba-offseason |
This is the reason why i started looking for another "Calderon2016trade" possibilities for Lakers. And why i like trade-Randle idea.
1. Keep pick (Fultz is a dream)
2. Belinelli + #41 for cap space.
3. Randle for McRoberts + #14
4. Clarkson + #28 + Mozgov for B.Lopez
5. Sign for small contracts Ennis and Robinson
6. Draft Anuoby (14), Hart (41)
Fultz/Ennis (Russell will play PG as well, Ennis as 3rd PG)
Russell/Belinelli/Hart
Ingram/Anuoby/Brewer
Deng/Nance/McRoberts/Robinson
Lopez/Zubac/Black
cap space for 2 max-contracts in 2018, also could even stretch Deng in 2018.
Few vets (Brolo, Deng, Brewer, Belinelli, McBob)
Deng as PF.
Fantastic young core.
Yup this is my pipe-dream offseason. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| iimarshon wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | iimarshon wrote: | | Would you trade Clarkson or Randle for Carmelo if it meant we could get rid of Deng (and Knicks took his contract on)? |
No. We can stretch Deng and not lose assets or have to take a ball stopper like Melo. |
Except stretching Deng saves 10m for 3 seasons, not 17m for 3 seasons..
It also means we'd be paying him like 7-8m for 4 addt seasons then the 3 left on his deal. |
You stretch him after the season begins and stretch two years of salary over 5 years. About $6 mil + against the cap. And you don't stupidly lose two assets while adding a player who doesn't fit with the rest of the team.
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Chase.button07
Star Player
Joined: 19 Feb 2017
Posts: 4996
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | iimarshon wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | iimarshon wrote: | | Would you trade Clarkson or Randle for Carmelo if it meant we could get rid of Deng (and Knicks took his contract on)? |
No. We can stretch Deng and not lose assets or have to take a ball stopper like Melo. |
Except stretching Deng saves 10m for 3 seasons, not 17m for 3 seasons..
It also means we'd be paying him like 7-8m for 4 addt seasons then the 3 left on his deal. |
You stretch him after the season begins and stretch two years of salary over 5 years. About $6 mil + against the cap. And you don't stupidly lose two assets while adding a player who doesn't fit with the rest of the team. |
yeah 5years sound better then 7. i would stretch him only if needed. I hope he has some value around the league? |
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BobbyB
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Posts: 2489
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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If we lose the pick. This is what I would do.
Keep the team together. We lose Nick Young. Add Tim Hardaway.
Russell/Ennis
Hardaway/Clarkson
Ingram/Brewer
Randle/Deng/Nance
Moz/Zu
We still have a log jam at PF. I would try getting rid of Black and Deng.
Hardaway at 24 can grow with the team and fits in perfectly to what this team is trying to accomplish offensively. |
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Chase.button07
Star Player
Joined: 19 Feb 2017
Posts: 4996
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| BobbyB wrote: | If we lose the pick. This is what I would do.
Keep the team together. We lose Nick Young. Add Tim Hardaway.
Russell/Ennis
Hardaway/Clarkson
Ingram/Brewer
Randle/Deng/Nance
Moz/Zu
We still have a log jam at PF. I would try getting rid of Black and Deng.
Hardaway at 24 can grow with the team and fits in perfectly to what this team is trying to accomplish offensively. |
if we lose the pick and if no all star is coming i would do nothing, absolutely nothing
Give all young guys 40mins/night get top 3 pick in loaded 2018 draft which might have generational players |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| BobbyB wrote: | If we lose the pick. This is what I would do.
Keep the team together. We lose Nick Young. Add Tim Hardaway.
Russell/Ennis
Hardaway/Clarkson
Ingram/Brewer
Randle/Deng/Nance
Moz/Zu
We still have a log jam at PF. I would try getting rid of Black and Deng.
Hardaway at 24 can grow with the team and fits in perfectly to what this team is trying to accomplish offensively. |
That would be fine, though I don't see how a top 3 pick changes anything. If we stay with youth that would only mean one more. Waiting until 2018 with cap space might be the best idea, then trade some young players with the ability to take back a large contract or two.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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BobbyB
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Posts: 2489
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | BobbyB wrote: | If we lose the pick. This is what I would do.
Keep the team together. We lose Nick Young. Add Tim Hardaway.
Russell/Ennis
Hardaway/Clarkson
Ingram/Brewer
Randle/Deng/Nance
Moz/Zu
We still have a log jam at PF. I would try getting rid of Black and Deng.
Hardaway at 24 can grow with the team and fits in perfectly to what this team is trying to accomplish offensively. |
That would be fine, though I don't see how a top 3 pick changes anything. If we stay with youth that would only mean one more. Waiting until 2018 with cap space might be the best idea, then trade some young players with the ability to take back a large contract or two. |
You are right I'm leaning more towards Keeping everyone together.
but getting the pick makes a trade more ok I guess. |
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Inspector Gadget
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VicXLakers
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | https://www.google.com/amp/www.sportingnews.com/amp/nba/news/paul-george-nba-trade-rumors-contract-lakers-news-pacers-magic-johnson/zvl28kvs3msi17p0sd5eot406
Via Sporting News: Magic will likely pursue PG13 in hopes to build a title contender around him according to sources close to Magic |
"Johnson will be making a franchise-altering mistake for years to come if he goes all-in on George, who has shown he’s a poor leader who often alienates teammates." |
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Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46639
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | https://www.google.com/amp/www.sportingnews.com/amp/nba/news/paul-george-nba-trade-rumors-contract-lakers-news-pacers-magic-johnson/zvl28kvs3msi17p0sd5eot406
Via Sporting News: Magic will likely pursue PG13 in hopes to build a title contender around him according to sources close to Magic |
"Johnson will be making a franchise-altering mistake for years to come if he goes all-in on George, who has shown he’s a poor leader who often alienates teammates." |
There is a big difference between alienating teammates and motivating teammates, Paul George has already confirmed that is what he was doing. |
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Mini Mamba
Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 6006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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As much as I like PG13, I'd rather keep the core intact and sign Cousins next summer.
Sure he can be a bit of a headcase but I think part of that was from playing in a toxic environment in Sacramento.
With the culture Luke is trying to build here I think he would be very successful if we could get him in 2018.
He is arguably the most talented bigman in the league and we have always built our championship teams around great centers.
Last edited by Mini Mamba on Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BobbyB
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Posts: 2489
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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CAn we do something like this.
Randle/Top 3/ JC for PG
Sign Hardaway Jr.
Russell
Hardaway
Ingram
George
Mozgov |
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CRoost
Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4791
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | https://www.google.com/amp/www.sportingnews.com/amp/nba/news/paul-george-nba-trade-rumors-contract-lakers-news-pacers-magic-johnson/zvl28kvs3msi17p0sd5eot406
Via Sporting News: Magic will likely pursue PG13 in hopes to build a title contender around him according to sources close to Magic |
"Johnson will be making a franchise-altering mistake for years to come if he goes all-in on George, who has shown he’s a poor leader who often alienates teammates." |
Did they said that about Kobe before. |
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EZ-Ryder
Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 843
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | EZ-Ryder wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | EZ-Ryder wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Dilla_ wrote: | I don't know if anyone has seen this yet Dan Favale from Bleacher Report predicts how much some FAs will make this summer.
JaMychal Green - Four years, $76 million
Tim Hardaway Jr - Four years, $58 million
Serge Ibaka - Four years, $108 million
Patty Mills - Four years, $70 million
Nerlens Noel - Four years, $90 million
Mason Plumlee - Four years, $60 million
JJ Redick - Four years, $74 million
Andre Roberson - Four years, $88 million
Derrick Rose - Three years, $42 million
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2704610-he-made-how-much-predicting-the-worst-contracts-of-2017-nba-offseason |
88 million for Roberson?? So he's gonna get more than Oladipo??
Truth be told, I really like Roberson. I think his defense is so good, he's worth signing and praying his jump shot falls. But I don't think anyone gives him that. Lot of guys on that list I like, but short of Ibaka, I don't see us going after any of them. |
I think Roberson gets that money. He's the second best perimeter defender in the league behind Leonard and impacts the game more significantly than anyone outside of NBA front offices probably realizes. Here is a look at some of the top NBA players effective shooting percentage normally and then against Roberson.
Kawhi leonard. 55%. 44% with Roberson guarding.
James harden. 69%. 28% Roberson guarding.
LeBron James. 63%. 43% with Roberson guarding.
Demar derozan. 70%. 50% with Roberson guarding.
Gordon hayward.70%. 40% with Roberson guarding.
His numbers aren't sexy, but dude impacts the game defensively in ways only shared by leonard, draymond, and gobert. |
I love Roberson's defense, but you just can't run a proper offense with him on the perimeter. He's a disruptive force on the defensive end, but also one on the offensive end for the wrong reason. |
Not saying id give him the money, but I think some NBA team is going to look at the analytics and overpay him. I personally value him somewhere in the 4 year 64 million dollar area, but if Chandler Parsons can rob teams the way he has, roberson who is actually useful should have no problem. |
Actually, if they look at the analytics, they argue against overpaying him. |
How so? He makes almost every top NBA wing player shoot drastically worse, the thunder opponents average 6 points less per 100 possessions with him on the court (one of the best in the nba), and every weak player on the thunder plays better defense with him on the floor. When kanter is on the floor without Roberson the thunder give up 110 points per 100 possesions. With kanter on the floor with Roberson they give up 101 points per 100 posessions. So I'm not sure what you mean. |
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iimarshon
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 2673
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | iimarshon wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | iimarshon wrote: | | Would you trade Clarkson or Randle for Carmelo if it meant we could get rid of Deng (and Knicks took his contract on)? |
No. We can stretch Deng and not lose assets or have to take a ball stopper like Melo. |
Except stretching Deng saves 10m for 3 seasons, not 17m for 3 seasons..
It also means we'd be paying him like 7-8m for 4 addt seasons then the 3 left on his deal. |
You stretch him after the season begins and stretch two years of salary over 5 years. About $6 mil + against the cap. And you don't stupidly lose two assets while adding a player who doesn't fit with the rest of the team. |
Doesn't he have 3 years x 17m per left?
That'd be 51m / 5 years = 10m per year against the cap over 5 years.
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VicXLakers
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | VicXLakers wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | https://www.google.com/amp/www.sportingnews.com/amp/nba/news/paul-george-nba-trade-rumors-contract-lakers-news-pacers-magic-johnson/zvl28kvs3msi17p0sd5eot406
Via Sporting News: Magic will likely pursue PG13 in hopes to build a title contender around him according to sources close to Magic |
"Johnson will be making a franchise-altering mistake for years to come if he goes all-in on George, who has shown he’s a poor leader who often alienates teammates." |
There is a big difference between alienating teammates and motivating teammates, Paul George has already confirmed that is what he was doing. |
just quoting the article you posted  |
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VicXLakers
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | VicXLakers wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | https://www.google.com/amp/www.sportingnews.com/amp/nba/news/paul-george-nba-trade-rumors-contract-lakers-news-pacers-magic-johnson/zvl28kvs3msi17p0sd5eot406
Via Sporting News: Magic will likely pursue PG13 in hopes to build a title contender around him according to sources close to Magic |
"Johnson will be making a franchise-altering mistake for years to come if he goes all-in on George, who has shown he’s a poor leader who often alienates teammates." |
Did they said that about Kobe before. |
don't know but they said it about Mike Penberthy...  |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Mini Mamba wrote: | As much as I like PG13, I'd rather keep the core intact and sign Cousins next summer.
Sure he can be a bit of a headcase but I think part of that was from playing in a toxic environment in Sacramento.
With the culture Luke is trying to build here I think he would be very successful if we could get him in 2018.
He is arguably the most talented bigman in the league and we have always built our championship teams around great centers. |
Cousins was the toxic environment in Sacramento. After he was traded they turned things around and finished the season well. Addition by subtraction. Keep him far away from our young players. And our last championship built around a big man was 15 years ago. Notice no other teams have won with that strategy, it is obsolete.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| BobbyB wrote: | CAn we do something like this.
Randle/Top 3/ JC for PG
Sign Hardaway Jr.
Russell
Hardaway
Ingram
George
Mozgov |
I hope not, we would be getting reamed with that trade. Big time overpaying.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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