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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:17 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ocho wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Hezonja has huge potential and fits what we wanna do perfectly.


If Hezonja fits what we want to do perfectly then our strategy must be to lose every game we ever play.


Stop with the dramatics. He's not a great player yet but he's got good size, is a very good athlete and can shoot. I haven't seen much of him in the NBA but his skill set and the player he could potentially be is what we are looking for.


I agree he is intriguing, but not for Lou. Can we find other pieces to trade for him?


Happily if it's possible. I'm not sure it is though
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:18 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ocho wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Hezonja has huge potential and fits what we wanna do perfectly.


If Hezonja fits what we want to do perfectly then our strategy must be to lose every game we ever play.


Stop with the dramatics. He's not a great player yet but he's got good size, is a very good athlete and can shoot. I haven't seen much of him in the NBA but his skill set and the player he could potentially be is what we are looking for.


I agree he is intriguing, but not for Lou. Can we find other pieces to trade for him?


Happily if it's possible. I'm not sure it is though


Would you do Young/2nd for Hezonja? Would mean that JC starts at SG.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:27 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Maybe Hezonja for Deng...convince Hennigan to have an all-African frontline of Deng-Ibaka-Biyombo.


i suggested couple of posts back: Deng/Lou for J Green/Hezonja


No way we dump Lou. He's our best player right now and last time I checked, we're actually trying to make the playoffs.

I was being semi-facetious about Deng as I doubt Orlando wants him.


how is it dumping lou when we are getting a top 5lottery pick? i don't understand that


B/C Mario is a project right now. Lou is playing out of his mind and to dump him for a project on a team looking to get into the playoffs is an antithetical move.


Not when you consider the fact that winning is not the priority. Making the playoffs this year would be great but sacrificing Lou for a guy who could be our starting 2 of the future is worthwhile IMO. Hezonja has huge potential and fits what we wanna do perfectly.

Exactly, there's not much difference between winning 30 and 35 games except giving Philly a better draft pick. Landing Hezonja for Lou - who is not in the team's long-term plans - would be the equivalent of keeping the pick this season. Would anybody not trade Lou to Philly for our pick back this season?
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levon
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:28 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ocho wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Hezonja has huge potential and fits what we wanna do perfectly.


If Hezonja fits what we want to do perfectly then our strategy must be to lose every game we ever play.


Stop with the dramatics. He's not a great player yet but he's got good size, is a very good athlete and can shoot. I haven't seen much of him in the NBA but his skill set and the player he could potentially be is what we are looking for.


I agree he is intriguing, but not for Lou. Can we find other pieces to trade for him?


Happily if it's possible. I'm not sure it is though


Would you do Young/2nd for Hezonja? Would mean that JC starts at SG.

Absolutely. Not sure why ORL would do this though.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:29 pm    Post subject:

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Landing Hezonja for Lou - who is not in the team's long-term plans - would be the equivalent of keeping the pick this season.


That remains to be seen. He was a high lottery pick but as we've seen, that's no guarantee he pans out. We know what Lou provides, and this season, it's a 6MOY level play that is one of the top reasons for our surprising start.

Now, if it's Feb. and we are 10+ games out of the 8th spot, I can be persuaded.
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levon
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:37 pm    Post subject:

I'm really high on Hezonja. I think what hasn't been stated yet is his body. He's 6 8 with a 6 10 wingspan, athletic, that can shoot and has a nice feel for the game. He has deceptive little pump fakes and a great first step as well and I think he has a vibrant passing game in his future as well.

Imagine the difference rolling out a 6 8 SG in your bench instead of 6 1 Lou Williams, in terms of keeping a body on opposing bench guards. And imagine the prospect of developing him into a starting level SG alongside someone like PG or Hayward. Russell-Hezonja-PG-Ingram-??? is a hell of a long, versatile lineup. Luke would work wonders with Hezonja, the complete opposite of whatever the hell the Magic are doing over there.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:39 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
I'm really high on Hezonja. I think what hasn't been stated yet is his body. He's 6 8 with a 6 10 wingspan, athletic, that can shoot and has a nice feel for the game. He has deceptive little pump fakes and a great first step as well and I think he has a vibrant passing game in his future as well.

Imagine the difference rolling out a 6 8 SG in your bench instead of 6 1 Lou Williams, in terms of keeping a body on opposing bench guards. And imagine the prospect of developing him into a starting level SG alongside someone like PG or Hayward. Russell-Hezonja-PG-Ingram-??? is a hell of a long, versatile lineup. Luke would work wonders with Hezonja, the complete opposite of whatever the hell the Magic are doing over there.


It is all about imagination. We don't know if Hez is a legit NBA player despite all the tools he has.

I really don't see the Lakers abandoning their goal (even if folks think it's futile) to make the playoffs this year for the hope that Hez can get his act together and be even a replacement level player, all the while giving up a 6MOY player who is probably the Lakers best player this season.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:40 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Landing Hezonja for Lou - who is not in the team's long-term plans - would be the equivalent of keeping the pick this season.


That remains to be seen. He was a high lottery pick but as we've seen, that's no guarantee he pans out. We know what Lou provides, and this season, it's a 6MOY level play that is one of the top reasons for our surprising start.

Now, if it's Feb. and we are 10+ games out of the 8th spot, I can be persuaded.

Right, it'd be dependent on what the Lakers FO thought of Hezonja before the draft. But the idea behind it is to be flexible and keep focused on building a championship core rather than a short-term playoff core.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:40 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Landing Hezonja for Lou - who is not in the team's long-term plans - would be the equivalent of keeping the pick this season.


That remains to be seen. He was a high lottery pick but as we've seen, that's no guarantee he pans out. We know what Lou provides, and this season, it's a 6MOY level play that is one of the top reasons for our surprising start.

Now, if it's Feb. and we are 10+ games out of the 8th spot, I can be persuaded.


lou's production has spiked up because we don't have our starting backcourt. As soon as both of them come back, i see his minutes go down and his production
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
ocho wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Hezonja has huge potential and fits what we wanna do perfectly.


If Hezonja fits what we want to do perfectly then our strategy must be to lose every game we ever play.


Stop with the dramatics. He's not a great player yet but he's got good size, is a very good athlete and can shoot. I haven't seen much of him in the NBA but his skill set and the player he could potentially be is what we are looking for.


It's obvious ocho has only seen Mario play this season and didn't see him last year or in Europe
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:43 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Landing Hezonja for Lou - who is not in the team's long-term plans - would be the equivalent of keeping the pick this season.


That remains to be seen. He was a high lottery pick but as we've seen, that's no guarantee he pans out. We know what Lou provides, and this season, it's a 6MOY level play that is one of the top reasons for our surprising start.

Now, if it's Feb. and we are 10+ games out of the 8th spot, I can be persuaded.

Right, it'd be dependent on what the Lakers FO thought of Hezonja before the draft. But the idea behind it is to be flexible and keep focused on building a championship core rather than a short-term playoff core.


I think the Lakers can have their cake and eat it with the guys we have. How many more projects do we need with DLO/Ingram/Randle/Zubac, etc. already on board? Lou serves a big purpose on this team.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:44 pm    Post subject:

Jim99187 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Landing Hezonja for Lou - who is not in the team's long-term plans - would be the equivalent of keeping the pick this season.


That remains to be seen. He was a high lottery pick but as we've seen, that's no guarantee he pans out. We know what Lou provides, and this season, it's a 6MOY level play that is one of the top reasons for our surprising start.

Now, if it's Feb. and we are 10+ games out of the 8th spot, I can be persuaded.


lou's production has spiked up because we don't have our starting backcourt. As soon as both of them come back, i see his minutes go down and his production


And that's fine, b/c he was still producing with DLO/Swag playing, and was putting up legit 6MOY numbers.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:44 pm    Post subject:

Jim99187 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Landing Hezonja for Lou - who is not in the team's long-term plans - would be the equivalent of keeping the pick this season.


That remains to be seen. He was a high lottery pick but as we've seen, that's no guarantee he pans out. We know what Lou provides, and this season, it's a 6MOY level play that is one of the top reasons for our surprising start.

Now, if it's Feb. and we are 10+ games out of the 8th spot, I can be persuaded.


lou's production has spiked up because we don't have our starting backcourt. As soon as both of them come back, i see his minutes go down and his production

I don't think that's fair to say. I think far and away Lou has been the best player on this team regardless of who's been playing. Last year we didn't think we could trade Lou for a late first rounder, now we're saying Lou for the 5th pick isn't enough. That's a testament to what Lou has done this year.

The unavoidable truth though is that when Lou is set to drop off, we're set to take off. Again this all depends on our records. Like yinoma said, I think if we're 7 games away from the 8th seen in February you pull the trigger before the Magic get any more leverage. And I think in that case the Magic have to be close to the playoffs too, or else what's the point of Lou Williams?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:51 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Landing Hezonja for Lou - who is not in the team's long-term plans - would be the equivalent of keeping the pick this season.


That remains to be seen. He was a high lottery pick but as we've seen, that's no guarantee he pans out. We know what Lou provides, and this season, it's a 6MOY level play that is one of the top reasons for our surprising start.

Now, if it's Feb. and we are 10+ games out of the 8th spot, I can be persuaded.


lou's production has spiked up because we don't have our starting backcourt. As soon as both of them come back, i see his minutes go down and his production

I don't think that's fair to say. I think far and away Lou has been the best player on this team regardless of who's been playing. Last year we didn't think we could trade Lou for a late first rounder, now we're saying Lou for the 5th pick isn't enough. That's a testament to what Lou has done this year.

The unavoidable truth though is that when Lou is set to drop off, we're set to take off. Again this all depends on our records. Like yinoma said, I think if we're 7 games away from the 8th seen in February you pull the trigger before the Magic get any more leverage. And I think in that case the Magic have to be close to the playoffs too, or else what's the point of Lou Williams?

Orlando has made at least one trade to sacrifice youth for a slim chance at the playoffs each of the last three seas ons, so it'd be surprising if they stopped now. But I bet they try to move Payton first, since his payday is coming up sooner than Hezonja's.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:57 pm    Post subject:

I'd avoid Payton at all costs. Ugh.

Frankly I'm surprised that Hez is struggling so much. Skiles I could understand but now Vogel. Is the NBA game just too much for him? Is this a Rudy Fernandez kind of situation (though Rudy did ok in the NBA)?

I was high on Hez going into the draft.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:04 pm    Post subject:

Deathstroke wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ocho wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Hezonja has huge potential and fits what we wanna do perfectly.


If Hezonja fits what we want to do perfectly then our strategy must be to lose every game we ever play.


Stop with the dramatics. He's not a great player yet but he's got good size, is a very good athlete and can shoot. I haven't seen much of him in the NBA but his skill set and the player he could potentially be is what we are looking for.


It's obvious ocho has only seen Mario play this season and didn't see him last year or in Europe


So weird to look at a players most recent body of work.

He can't crack the rotation on a bad team. Maybe Frank Vogel didn't see that game in Europe?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:05 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I'd avoid Payton at all costs. Ugh.

Frankly I'm surprised that Hez is struggling so much. Skiles I could understand but now Vogel. Is the NBA game just too much for him? Is this a Rudy Fernandez kind of situation (though Rudy did ok in the NBA)?

I was high on Hez going into the draft.

Last year there were some rookie growing pains. This year he just doesn't fit in the rotation because of the Magic's big man logjam, forcing Aaron Gordon to play the 3, and consequently Fournier the 2.

Hez needs to be surrounded with shooters and space, attacking in early transition, coming off of curls, etc. Without things flowing through him a healthy amount he withers and dies (the opposite of a Larry Nance type). But notice how much his comfort zone coincides with our 2nd unit's style.

Vogel's been given the mandate to make the playoffs, and playing a 2nd year player who isn't great defensively isn't conducive to that. Of course neither is Gordon playing the 3, but the Magic are special like that. But I think the playoff or bust attitude means we could get away with Young and a pick for Hezonja.


Last edited by levon on Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:06 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I'd avoid Payton at all costs. Ugh.

Frankly I'm surprised that Hez is struggling so much. Skiles I could understand but now Vogel. Is the NBA game just too much for him? Is this a Rudy Fernandez kind of situation (though Rudy did ok in the NBA)?

I was high on Hez going into the draft.


MH's minutes the last 2 seasons:

17
11

And he's only 21.. he would grow with the young core and can potentially thrive in Lukes offense.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'd avoid Payton at all costs. Ugh.

Frankly I'm surprised that Hez is struggling so much. Skiles I could understand but now Vogel. Is the NBA game just too much for him? Is this a Rudy Fernandez kind of situation (though Rudy did ok in the NBA)?

I was high on Hez going into the draft.

Last year there were some rookie growing pains. This year he just doesn't fit in the rotation because of the Magic's big man logjam, forcing Aaron Gordon to play the 3, and consequently Fournier the 2.

Hez needs to be surrounded with shooters and space, attacking in early transition, coming off of curls, etc. Without things flowing through him a healthy amount he withers and dies (the opposite of a Larry Nance type). But notice how much his comfort zone coincides with our 2nd unit's style.

Vogel's been given the mandate to make the playoffs, and playing a 2nd year player who isn't great defensively isn't conducive to that. Of course neither is Gordon playing the 3, but the Magic are special like that. But I think the playoff or bust attitude means we could get away with Young and a pick for Hezonja.


Gordon is only playing 25 mpg; Fournier 33 mpg.

Between the SG/SF spots there should be 38 mpg to play.

Hezonja is playing 11 mpg.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:13 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
levon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'd avoid Payton at all costs. Ugh.

Frankly I'm surprised that Hez is struggling so much. Skiles I could understand but now Vogel. Is the NBA game just too much for him? Is this a Rudy Fernandez kind of situation (though Rudy did ok in the NBA)?

I was high on Hez going into the draft.

Last year there were some rookie growing pains. This year he just doesn't fit in the rotation because of the Magic's big man logjam, forcing Aaron Gordon to play the 3, and consequently Fournier the 2.

Hez needs to be surrounded with shooters and space, attacking in early transition, coming off of curls, etc. Without things flowing through him a healthy amount he withers and dies (the opposite of a Larry Nance type). But notice how much his comfort zone coincides with our 2nd unit's style.

Vogel's been given the mandate to make the playoffs, and playing a 2nd year player who isn't great defensively isn't conducive to that. Of course neither is Gordon playing the 3, but the Magic are special like that. But I think the playoff or bust attitude means we could get away with Young and a pick for Hezonja.


Gordon is only playing 25 mpg; Fournier 33 mpg.

Between the SG/SF spots there should be 38 mpg to play.

Hezonja is playing 11 mpg.


And when he plays he sucks. This isn't a Rubik's Cube.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:15 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
levon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'd avoid Payton at all costs. Ugh.

Frankly I'm surprised that Hez is struggling so much. Skiles I could understand but now Vogel. Is the NBA game just too much for him? Is this a Rudy Fernandez kind of situation (though Rudy did ok in the NBA)?

I was high on Hez going into the draft.

Last year there were some rookie growing pains. This year he just doesn't fit in the rotation because of the Magic's big man logjam, forcing Aaron Gordon to play the 3, and consequently Fournier the 2.

Hez needs to be surrounded with shooters and space, attacking in early transition, coming off of curls, etc. Without things flowing through him a healthy amount he withers and dies (the opposite of a Larry Nance type). But notice how much his comfort zone coincides with our 2nd unit's style.

Vogel's been given the mandate to make the playoffs, and playing a 2nd year player who isn't great defensively isn't conducive to that. Of course neither is Gordon playing the 3, but the Magic are special like that. But I think the playoff or bust attitude means we could get away with Young and a pick for Hezonja.


Gordon is only playing 25 mpg; Fournier 33 mpg.

Between the SG/SF spots there should be 38 mpg to play.

Hezonja is playing 11 mpg.

I think that's because the potential of a vet like Jeff Green (26mpg recently) going off is more appealing to winning games than dealing with Hezonja's lapses on defense or in the half court.

I think if you simplify everything and put him in the Clarkson role on the second unit, he's going to break out. Especially if we don't have to give up Lou.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:17 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I'd avoid Payton at all costs. Ugh.

Frankly I'm surprised that Hez is struggling so much. Skiles I could understand but now Vogel. Is the NBA game just too much for him? Is this a Rudy Fernandez kind of situation (though Rudy did ok in the NBA)?

I was high on Hez going into the draft.


Vogel was fired because Bird wanted them to play fast and he still didn't play fast or uptempo.

they are struggling again this year & vogel is as much to blame as his players
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:18 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ocho wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Hezonja has huge potential and fits what we wanna do perfectly.


If Hezonja fits what we want to do perfectly then our strategy must be to lose every game we ever play.


Stop with the dramatics. He's not a great player yet but he's got good size, is a very good athlete and can shoot. I haven't seen much of him in the NBA but his skill set and the player he could potentially be is what we are looking for.


I agree he is intriguing, but not for Lou. Can we find other pieces to trade for him?


Happily if it's possible. I'm not sure it is though


Would you do Young/2nd for Hezonja? Would mean that JC starts at SG.


In a heartbeat
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:20 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
levon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'd avoid Payton at all costs. Ugh.

Frankly I'm surprised that Hez is struggling so much. Skiles I could understand but now Vogel. Is the NBA game just too much for him? Is this a Rudy Fernandez kind of situation (though Rudy did ok in the NBA)?

I was high on Hez going into the draft.

Last year there were some rookie growing pains. This year he just doesn't fit in the rotation because of the Magic's big man logjam, forcing Aaron Gordon to play the 3, and consequently Fournier the 2.

Hez needs to be surrounded with shooters and space, attacking in early transition, coming off of curls, etc. Without things flowing through him a healthy amount he withers and dies (the opposite of a Larry Nance type). But notice how much his comfort zone coincides with our 2nd unit's style.

Vogel's been given the mandate to make the playoffs, and playing a 2nd year player who isn't great defensively isn't conducive to that. Of course neither is Gordon playing the 3, but the Magic are special like that. But I think the playoff or bust attitude means we could get away with Young and a pick for Hezonja.


Gordon is only playing 25 mpg; Fournier 33 mpg.

Between the SG/SF spots there should be 38 mpg to play.

Hezonja is playing 11 mpg.


And when he plays he sucks. This isn't a Rubik's Cube.


he is a 2nd year player and last year was his rookie year.

new coach too.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:38 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Landing Hezonja for Lou - who is not in the team's long-term plans - would be the equivalent of keeping the pick this season.


That remains to be seen. He was a high lottery pick but as we've seen, that's no guarantee he pans out. We know what Lou provides, and this season, it's a 6MOY level play that is one of the top reasons for our surprising start.

Now, if it's Feb. and we are 10+ games out of the 8th spot, I can be persuaded.

Right, it'd be dependent on what the Lakers FO thought of Hezonja before the draft. But the idea behind it is to be flexible and keep focused on building a championship core rather than a short-term playoff core.


I think the Lakers can have their cake and eat it with the guys we have. How many more projects do we need with DLO/Ingram/Randle/Zubac, etc. already on board? Lou serves a big purpose on this team.

Well looking at that core, we could use a 2 way SG and an athletic big that can defend. Hezonja and/or WCS would be perfect additions to our core. Not saying trade Lou for either right now.
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