Frankly I'm surprised that Hez is struggling so much. Skiles I could understand but now Vogel. Is the NBA game just too much for him? Is this a Rudy Fernandez kind of situation (though Rudy did ok in the NBA)?
I was high on Hez going into the draft.
Last year there were some rookie growing pains. This year he just doesn't fit in the rotation because of the Magic's big man logjam, forcing Aaron Gordon to play the 3, and consequently Fournier the 2.
Hez needs to be surrounded with shooters and space, attacking in early transition, coming off of curls, etc. Without things flowing through him a healthy amount he withers and dies (the opposite of a Larry Nance type). But notice how much his comfort zone coincides with our 2nd unit's style.
Vogel's been given the mandate to make the playoffs, and playing a 2nd year player who isn't great defensively isn't conducive to that. Of course neither is Gordon playing the 3, but the Magic are special like that. But I think the playoff or bust attitude means we could get away with Young and a pick for Hezonja.
Gordon is only playing 25 mpg; Fournier 33 mpg.
Between the SG/SF spots there should be 38 mpg to play.
Hezonja is playing 11 mpg.
And when he plays he sucks. This isn't a Rubik's Cube.
he is a 2nd year player and last year was his rookie year.
new coach too.
So trade a 2nd rounder for him. Sign him to a make good FA deal. You don't give up valuable rotation players or Jordan freaking Clarkson for yet another pet project. _________________ 14-5-3-12
Frankly I'm surprised that Hez is struggling so much. Skiles I could understand but now Vogel. Is the NBA game just too much for him? Is this a Rudy Fernandez kind of situation (though Rudy did ok in the NBA)?
I was high on Hez going into the draft.
Last year there were some rookie growing pains. This year he just doesn't fit in the rotation because of the Magic's big man logjam, forcing Aaron Gordon to play the 3, and consequently Fournier the 2.
Hez needs to be surrounded with shooters and space, attacking in early transition, coming off of curls, etc. Without things flowing through him a healthy amount he withers and dies (the opposite of a Larry Nance type). But notice how much his comfort zone coincides with our 2nd unit's style.
Vogel's been given the mandate to make the playoffs, and playing a 2nd year player who isn't great defensively isn't conducive to that. Of course neither is Gordon playing the 3, but the Magic are special like that. But I think the playoff or bust attitude means we could get away with Young and a pick for Hezonja.
Gordon is only playing 25 mpg; Fournier 33 mpg.
Between the SG/SF spots there should be 38 mpg to play.
Hezonja is playing 11 mpg.
And when he plays he sucks. This isn't a Rubik's Cube.
he is a 2nd year player and last year was his rookie year.
new coach too.
So trade a 2nd rounder for him. Sign him to a make good FA deal. You don't give up valuable rotation players or Jordan freaking Clarkson for yet another pet project.
relax man. its not life and death question where you have to shout or curse.
a 2nd rounder is not going to get you the 5th pick in last year draft
I'm really high on Hezonja. I think what hasn't been stated yet is his body. He's 6 8 with a 6 10 wingspan, athletic, that can shoot and has a nice feel for the game. He has deceptive little pump fakes and a great first step as well and I think he has a vibrant passing game in his future as well.
Imagine the difference rolling out a 6 8 SG in your bench instead of 6 1 Lou Williams, in terms of keeping a body on opposing bench guards. And imagine the prospect of developing him into a starting level SG alongside someone like PG or Hayward. Russell-Hezonja-PG-Ingram-??? is a hell of a long, versatile lineup. Luke would work wonders with Hezonja, the complete opposite of whatever the hell the Magic are doing over there.
I would say trading Lou for Hezonja will reduces our chance of signing star free agents. When you trade one of the best player on the team for a prospect, you are sending a message to the free agents.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:47 pm Post subject:
I'd say Hezonja has the athletic tools and a basic skill set to be an athletic 3 and D guy, perhaps even multi-dimensional, but I wouldn't say he has a nice feel for the game. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Frankly I'm surprised that Hez is struggling so much. Skiles I could understand but now Vogel. Is the NBA game just too much for him? Is this a Rudy Fernandez kind of situation (though Rudy did ok in the NBA)?
I was high on Hez going into the draft.
Last year there were some rookie growing pains. This year he just doesn't fit in the rotation because of the Magic's big man logjam, forcing Aaron Gordon to play the 3, and consequently Fournier the 2.
Hez needs to be surrounded with shooters and space, attacking in early transition, coming off of curls, etc. Without things flowing through him a healthy amount he withers and dies (the opposite of a Larry Nance type). But notice how much his comfort zone coincides with our 2nd unit's style.
Vogel's been given the mandate to make the playoffs, and playing a 2nd year player who isn't great defensively isn't conducive to that. Of course neither is Gordon playing the 3, but the Magic are special like that. But I think the playoff or bust attitude means we could get away with Young and a pick for Hezonja.
Gordon is only playing 25 mpg; Fournier 33 mpg.
Between the SG/SF spots there should be 38 mpg to play.
Hezonja is playing 11 mpg.
And when he plays he sucks. This isn't a Rubik's Cube.
he is a 2nd year player and last year was his rookie year.
new coach too.
So trade a 2nd rounder for him. Sign him to a make good FA deal. You don't give up valuable rotation players or Jordan freaking Clarkson for yet another pet project.
What do you hate so much about Hezonja?
Some guys are late bloomers. Bazemore, Powell, Clarkson and the list goes on. He's struggling right now but he's only 21 IIRC. And the Lakers system and culture fits him very well. I don't know why trading a placeholder player for him has you so upset. Disagreeing is fair but you're completely exaggerating his deficiencies and underestimating his potential.
He was a very good player in the top league in the world outside of the NBA as a teenager/20 year old. We didn't all just watch a DX video and listen to the hype.
So as the standing for today, Lakers W10 L14, Magic W10 L13. Can anyone explain to me why at this point Magic is trying to trade a high lottery pick prospect to help them getting to the playoff while Lakers should trade one of the best players on the team?
I'd say Hezonja has the athletic tools and a basic skill set to be an athletic 3 and D guy, perhaps even multi-dimensional, but I wouldn't say he has a nice feel for the game.
So as the standing for today, Lakers W10 L14, Magic W10 L13. Can anyone explain to me why at this point Magic is trying to trade a high lottery pick prospect to help them getting to the playoff while Lakers should trade one of the best players on the team?
Frankly I'm surprised that Hez is struggling so much. Skiles I could understand but now Vogel. Is the NBA game just too much for him? Is this a Rudy Fernandez kind of situation (though Rudy did ok in the NBA)?
I was high on Hez going into the draft.
Last year there were some rookie growing pains. This year he just doesn't fit in the rotation because of the Magic's big man logjam, forcing Aaron Gordon to play the 3, and consequently Fournier the 2.
Hez needs to be surrounded with shooters and space, attacking in early transition, coming off of curls, etc. Without things flowing through him a healthy amount he withers and dies (the opposite of a Larry Nance type). But notice how much his comfort zone coincides with our 2nd unit's style.
Vogel's been given the mandate to make the playoffs, and playing a 2nd year player who isn't great defensively isn't conducive to that. Of course neither is Gordon playing the 3, but the Magic are special like that. But I think the playoff or bust attitude means we could get away with Young and a pick for Hezonja.
Gordon is only playing 25 mpg; Fournier 33 mpg.
Between the SG/SF spots there should be 38 mpg to play.
Hezonja is playing 11 mpg.
And when he plays he sucks. This isn't a Rubik's Cube.
he is a 2nd year player and last year was his rookie year.
new coach too.
So trade a 2nd rounder for him. Sign him to a make good FA deal. You don't give up valuable rotation players or Jordan freaking Clarkson for yet another pet project.
What do you hate so much about Hezonja?
Some guys are late bloomers. Bazemore, Powell, Clarkson and the list goes on. He's struggling right now but he's only 21 IIRC. And the Lakers system and culture fits him very well. I don't know why trading a placeholder player for him has you so upset. Disagreeing is fair but you're completely exaggerating his deficiencies and underestimating his potential.
He was a very good player in the top league in the world outside of the NBA as a teenager/20 year old. We didn't all just watch a DX video and listen to the hype.
also last year was his rookie year under different coach. The current coach is also not known for a free flowing offense where everybody shines like Luke's
Last edited by Jim99187 on Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:55 pm Post subject:
Jim99187 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I'd say Hezonja has the athletic tools and a basic skill set to be an athletic 3 and D guy, perhaps even multi-dimensional, but I wouldn't say he has a nice feel for the game.
yeah, I remember you being high on him Mike
It's tough for me to turn down athletic tools, 3pt, shot, ability to finish, and the appearance of swagger/confidence of trying to get better all the time.
Yeah, I'd like a 6'8" SG that could easily move to SF and do that.
Side note. The Orlando Magic are a mess. They've got players playing out of position and not being put in positions to succeed. Aaron Gordon. Mario Hezonja.
Hezonja's rookie year shooting was pretty much elite across the board up to the 3pt line, then average from the 3pt. line. Not bad for a guy still working on adding consistent perimeter range.
I'd say Hezonja has the athletic tools and a basic skill set to be an athletic 3 and D guy, perhaps even multi-dimensional, but I wouldn't say he has a nice feel for the game.
yeah, I remember you being high on him Mike
It's tough for me to turn down athletic tools, 3pt, shot, ability to finish, and the appearance of swagger/confidence of trying to get better all the time.
Yeah, I'd like a 6'8" SG that could easily move to SF and do that.
Side note. The Orlando Magic are a mess. They've got players playing out of position and not being put in positions to succeed. Aaron Gordon. Mario Hezonja.
agreed. and somehow they prefer to put their future in hands of a guy who can't shoot or do anything in E Payton. just a overall mess
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:00 pm Post subject:
My thing is, I really appreciate Lou's increased playmaking skills and less errant Iso play, but I don't think he can maintain this kind of fire all season, nor has his value been any higher.
When I think about it, at times I'd prefer JC at PG and Hezonja at 2/3.
So as the standing for today, Lakers W10 L14, Magic W10 L13. Can anyone explain to me why at this point Magic is trying to trade a high lottery pick prospect to help them getting to the playoff while Lakers should trade one of the best players on the team?
I wouldn't make any trade right now at all.
i would. everybody wants to sign PG13 at max in 2018. We have to pay randle that summer and we will have Lou as UFA.
priority would be PG13, Randle and then Lou. We need $$$ for Russell and nance an year later too
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:07 pm Post subject:
BigGameHames wrote:
ocho wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Hezonja has huge potential and fits what we wanna do perfectly.
If Hezonja fits what we want to do perfectly then our strategy must be to lose every game we ever play.
Stop with the dramatics. He's not a great player yet but he's got good size, is a very good athlete and can shoot. I haven't seen much of him in the NBA but his skill set and the player he could potentially be is what we are looking for.
No, I really doubt we are looking to add more kids to this team. Especially at the expense of the player who has been the main reason we have been competitive. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
So as the standing for today, Lakers W10 L14, Magic W10 L13. Can anyone explain to me why at this point Magic is trying to trade a high lottery pick prospect to help them getting to the playoff while Lakers should trade one of the best players on the team?
Because LG covets nothing More than another team's underperforming prospect. It's the mystery box they cant resist.
If Mario Hezonja were on this team he'd be universally hated by the same people now clamoring for him. He'd be called a bust and theyd want to dump him for anything they could get. _________________ 14-5-3-12
Last edited by ocho on Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:12 pm Post subject:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Exactly, there's not much difference between winning 30 and 35 games except giving Philly a better draft pick. Landing Hezonja for Lou - who is not in the team's long-term plans - would be the equivalent of keeping the pick this season. Would anybody not trade Lou to Philly for our pick back this season?
For those who pay the bills there is a big difference between 30 and 35 wins, and even bigger if the team can make the playoffs. And Lou is in our plans, Jim Buss has referred to him as part of our core. We aren't tanking, I know that is hard for some to understand. We aren't eager to be Philly and have a bunch of young players that we have to develop and then lose some of them when it comes time to pay them. We need to stop thinking like losers and embrace winning. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
So as the standing for today, Lakers W10 L14, Magic W10 L13. Can anyone explain to me why at this point Magic is trying to trade a high lottery pick prospect to help them getting to the playoff while Lakers should trade one of the best players on the team?
The Lakers know that the end game isn't riding short-term veterans to a token playoff experience?
I don't think there's one right way for the Lakers to work their way out of the woods, but the foundation of this team is three 20 year olds who were top ten draft picks. The Lakers had to go through three seasons of progressively worsening records to build that foundation. Sacrificing a handful of short-term wins to add the potential long-term gain of another top five draft pick who fits the roster could arguably be more strategically sound. Lose the battle, win the war - that whole thing.
My thing is, I really appreciate Lou's increased playmaking skills and less errant Iso play, but I don't think he can maintain this kind of fire all season, nor has his value been any higher.
When I think about it, at times I'd prefer JC at PG and Hezonja at 2/3.
And all of those were curling off screens or handoffs, attacking in early transition and catch and shoot. I think he'd be a great fit for this team offensively.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:18 pm Post subject:
levon wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
So as the standing for today, Lakers W10 L14, Magic W10 L13. Can anyone explain to me why at this point Magic is trying to trade a high lottery pick prospect to help them getting to the playoff while Lakers should trade one of the best players on the team?
I wouldn't make any trade right now at all.
I hear you unless some dumb GM offers something that knocks your socks off. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:22 pm Post subject:
levon wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
My thing is, I really appreciate Lou's increased playmaking skills and less errant Iso play, but I don't think he can maintain this kind of fire all season, nor has his value been any higher.
When I think about it, at times I'd prefer JC at PG and Hezonja at 2/3.
And all of those were curling off screens or handoffs, attacking in early transition and catch and shoot. I think he'd be a great fit for this team offensively.
Exactly.
He's not getting those opportunities with the same frequency this year, hence the down year in Orlando.
The Magic are a lost team. They once had their own draft picks in positions to succeed, but once they signed a few FAs, those draft picks got put on the way-side for the veterans.
Why pick up Jodie Meeks when Hezonja is developing?
Why play Aaron Gordon at SF, when he's at his best at PF behind Ibaka?
Why sign Biyombo when Vucevic is already a darn good center?
It's no accident the Orlando Magic are -6ppg down offensively as a team. They're currently 28th in team scoring, almost Lakers bad as last season.
That's how dysfunctional that roster is. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
I would not write off any young player on the Magic who's not playing up to his potential.
Player development on that team seems to be terrible.
And Hezonja definitely has all the tools to be a really good player.
I'm just not sure we couldn't get more right now for how Lou is playing.
Regardless, the pg position seems to be producing for Orlando, and Imo - Rudy Gay is who they'll be targeting.
The right team at this point with which to talk Lou deal are the Bulls.
The problem there is that traditionally, they are not fans of mid-season trades.
Exactly, there's not much difference between winning 30 and 35 games except giving Philly a better draft pick. Landing Hezonja for Lou - who is not in the team's long-term plans - would be the equivalent of keeping the pick this season. Would anybody not trade Lou to Philly for our pick back this season?
For those who pay the bills there is a big difference between 30 and 35 wins, and even bigger if the team can make the playoffs. And Lou is in our plans, Jim Buss has referred to him as part of our core. We aren't tanking, I know that is hard for some to understand. We aren't eager to be Philly and have a bunch of young players that we have to develop and then lose some of them when it comes time to pay them. We need to stop thinking like losers and embrace winning.
Will Lou be here in five seasons? What kind of impact will he be making at age 35-36? Because Nance will be 28-29, Randle 27, Russell 25, Ingram and Zubac 24 in five years. All of them have long-term potential for the Lakers; Lou is Sedale Threatt. I'm not advocating trading him for a low 1st round pick or for cap space, but adding a potentially better player (long-term) who fits age-wise with the young core should trump a likely failed playoff push. There's a difference between full-on tanking and savvy asset management. JMO.
So as the standing for today, Lakers W10 L14, Magic W10 L13. Can anyone explain to me why at this point Magic is trying to trade a high lottery pick prospect to help them getting to the playoff while Lakers should trade one of the best players on the team?
I wouldn't make any trade right now at all.
I hear you unless some dumb GM offers something that knocks your socks off.
Exactly, there's not much difference between winning 30 and 35 games except giving Philly a better draft pick. Landing Hezonja for Lou - who is not in the team's long-term plans - would be the equivalent of keeping the pick this season. Would anybody not trade Lou to Philly for our pick back this season?
For those who pay the bills there is a big difference between 30 and 35 wins, and even bigger if the team can make the playoffs. And Lou is in our plans, Jim Buss has referred to him as part of our core. We aren't tanking, I know that is hard for some to understand. We aren't eager to be Philly and have a bunch of young players that we have to develop and then lose some of them when it comes time to pay them. We need to stop thinking like losers and embrace winning.
I thought deng/Mozgov/mwp are here for vet leadership.
That's why you are ok with deng's production of 2/2/1. Err 10/6... My bad again 8/5
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