OFFICIAL 2017 FREE AGENCY (Lakers sign Bogut)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:19 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
It kills me to say but if Zubac continues to show regression, we could really include him as a sweetener with Clarkson and Deng.

With Kuzma being the stretch forward we've been looking for, play Nance as a backup 5 and Kuzma backup 4. We're going to continue to play small ball either way.

Man I didn't think I would be saying that for a long while.


Given today's NBA, not sure how much of a sweetener sweet Zub is. Look at a guy like Kanter and Okafor. Old school big men.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:23 am    Post subject:

LaxT wrote:
I am thinking of the possibility of signing a shooter, and trading JC for a PG whose contract will expire in 2018. Not many options though.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2018/point-guard/available/
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/shooting-guard/available/

BTW, spotrac is good to use.

Ideally, you find someone who can backup Ball and play with him too. Pairing Ball with somebody with ball-handling, shooting, and D would maximize his abilities. I am not sure JC fits the description.


Re: JC

1. his deal has to come off the books by the latest, July 2018 to get 2 max spots (along with stretching or trading Deng, maybe Jules).

2. He is one of the better players on the team at getting to the rim, as Lonzo/KCP are not those kinds of players.

The conundrum is what to do about him. Should we trade him as soon as possible to ensure that we have our 2018 plan set in place for the most part, or hold on to him and trade him in the offseason (where teams may want a higher price knowing our 2018 plan)?
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:25 am    Post subject:

PICKnPOP wrote:
infoman2001 wrote:
Lakers need to offer Brandon Jennings a contract 1 year deal.


I wouldn't mind this but I think clarkson is the backup 1


Coach Luke didn't exactly endorse that position by saying in a recent interview that Lonzo was the only PG on the team.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:28 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
infoman2001 wrote:
Lakers need to offer Brandon Jennings a contract 1 year deal.


I wouldn't mind this but I think clarkson is the backup 1


Coach Luke didn't exactly endorse that position by saying in a recent interview that Lonzo was the only PG on the team.


Yeah, I doubt that Clarksoin is the backup 1. You really see why we need a backup pg. You can't expect Ball to play heavy minutes, at the toughest position, and not need any help.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:33 am    Post subject:

One team I see hasn't been mention for Deng is Utah. They have their guards with Rubio, Donovan and Exum, but they are a little lite on stretch 4's. The only one on the roster is Jebreko.

The reason I think the Jazz could look at Deng is Derrick Favors being a UFA. Do the Jazz really want to invest 20M a year into Favors? If we can give them Deng, plus two picks, does that make them bite?

Interesting to hear people thoughts.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:36 am    Post subject:

Wildchild027 wrote:
One team I see hasn't been mention for Deng is Utah. They have their guards with Rubio, Donovan and Exum, but they are a little lite on stretch 4's. The only one on the roster is Jebreko.

The reason I think the Jazz could look at Deng is Derrick Favors being a UFA. Do the Jazz really want to invest 20M a year into Favors? If we can give them Deng, plus two picks, does that make them bite?

Interesting to hear people thoughts.


pretty sure they would rather put $20 Million into Favors over $18 Million into Deng
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:39 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Wildchild027 wrote:
One team I see hasn't been mention for Deng is Utah. They have their guards with Rubio, Donovan and Exum, but they are a little lite on stretch 4's. The only one on the roster is Jebreko.

The reason I think the Jazz could look at Deng is Derrick Favors being a UFA. Do the Jazz really want to invest 20M a year into Favors? If we can give them Deng, plus two picks, does that make them bite?

Interesting to hear people thoughts.


pretty sure they would rather put $20 Million into Favors over $18 Million into Deng


You think they rather pay Favors 80 million + over 4 years, or pay Deng 36 million over 2, with two or three picks for their troubles?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:45 am    Post subject:

Wildchild027 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Wildchild027 wrote:
One team I see hasn't been mention for Deng is Utah. They have their guards with Rubio, Donovan and Exum, but they are a little lite on stretch 4's. The only one on the roster is Jebreko.

The reason I think the Jazz could look at Deng is Derrick Favors being a UFA. Do the Jazz really want to invest 20M a year into Favors? If we can give them Deng, plus two picks, does that make them bite?

Interesting to hear people thoughts.


pretty sure they would rather put $20 Million into Favors over $18 Million into Deng


You think they rather pay Favors 80 million + over 4 years, or pay Deng 36 million over 2, with two or three picks for their troubles?


the truth is they do not have to pay either.....I just think at this point there is about a 3% chance Deng can play himself off the roster and about a 97% chance he gets stretched
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:46 am    Post subject:

Wildchild027 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Wildchild027 wrote:
One team I see hasn't been mention for Deng is Utah. They have their guards with Rubio, Donovan and Exum, but they are a little lite on stretch 4's. The only one on the roster is Jebreko.

The reason I think the Jazz could look at Deng is Derrick Favors being a UFA. Do the Jazz really want to invest 20M a year into Favors? If we can give them Deng, plus two picks, does that make them bite?

Interesting to hear people thoughts.


pretty sure they would rather put $20 Million into Favors over $18 Million into Deng


You think they rather pay Favors 80 million + over 4 years, or pay Deng 36 million over 2, with two or three picks for their troubles?


Obviously depends on the picks, and the protections on it.

2 2nd rounders won't do much.

But 2 1st rounders would be a good deal for Utah, not sure why the Lakers do that.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:51 am    Post subject:

LB2 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
See what happened after lonzo got taken out? Offense stagnated

This is why we should get Kendall Marshall to back him up. That way we can run the same system in both lineups


100% on board with this. Always been a fan of his and he's one of the only guys in the league that could teach Lonzo a thing or two about being a playmaker without crazy blow by speed. My only issue is the lack of quick on-ball perimeter defenders. But at this point I'd take Kendall as our back up for sure.


do it rob
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:55 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
LB2 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
See what happened after lonzo got taken out? Offense stagnated

This is why we should get Kendall Marshall to back him up. That way we can run the same system in both lineups


100% on board with this. Always been a fan of his and he's one of the only guys in the league that could teach Lonzo a thing or two about being a playmaker without crazy blow by speed. My only issue is the lack of quick on-ball perimeter defenders. But at this point I'd take Kendall as our back up for sure.


do it rob


Marshall would be nice. Ennis would work too.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:56 am    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
LB2 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
See what happened after lonzo got taken out? Offense stagnated

This is why we should get Kendall Marshall to back him up. That way we can run the same system in both lineups


100% on board with this. Always been a fan of his and he's one of the only guys in the league that could teach Lonzo a thing or two about being a playmaker without crazy blow by speed. My only issue is the lack of quick on-ball perimeter defenders. But at this point I'd take Kendall as our back up for sure.


do it rob


Marshall would be nice. Ennis would work too.


just bring them to camp and see who earns it
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:57 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LaxT wrote:
I am thinking of the possibility of signing a shooter, and trading JC for a PG whose contract will expire in 2018. Not many options though.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2018/point-guard/available/
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/shooting-guard/available/

BTW, spotrac is good to use.

Ideally, you find someone who can backup Ball and play with him too. Pairing Ball with somebody with ball-handling, shooting, and D would maximize his abilities. I am not sure JC fits the description.


Re: JC

1. his deal has to come off the books by the latest, July 2018 to get 2 max spots (along with stretching or trading Deng, maybe Jules).

2. He is one of the better players on the team at getting to the rim, as Lonzo/KCP are not those kinds of players.

The conundrum is what to do about him. Should we trade him as soon as possible to ensure that we have our 2018 plan set in place for the most part, or hold on to him and trade him in the offseason (where teams may want a higher price knowing our 2018 plan)?


We need to raise his value first. He should look better playing with Lonzo and Lopez, so I would keep him. If his value is good enough by the trade deadline, deal him then, if not, keep him until the summer. Won't have any issues trading him since he is young and on a decent deal. If he regresses even further we may need to add something to trade him, but I don't think that will be the case.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:58 am    Post subject:

lewis wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LaxT wrote:
I am thinking of the possibility of signing a shooter, and trading JC for a PG whose contract will expire in 2018. Not many options though.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2018/point-guard/available/
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/shooting-guard/available/

BTW, spotrac is good to use.

Ideally, you find someone who can backup Ball and play with him too. Pairing Ball with somebody with ball-handling, shooting, and D would maximize his abilities. I am not sure JC fits the description.


Re: JC

1. his deal has to come off the books by the latest, July 2018 to get 2 max spots (along with stretching or trading Deng, maybe Jules).

2. He is one of the better players on the team at getting to the rim, as Lonzo/KCP are not those kinds of players.

The conundrum is what to do about him. Should we trade him as soon as possible to ensure that we have our 2018 plan set in place for the most part, or hold on to him and trade him in the offseason (where teams may want a higher price knowing our 2018 plan)?


We need to raise his value first. He should look better playing with Lonzo and Lopez, so I would keep him. If his value is good enough by the trade deadline, deal him then, if not, keep him until the summer. Won't have any issues trading him since he is young and on a decent deal. If he regresses even further we may need to add something to trade him, but I don't think that will be the case.


I would be against waiting until next summer. The overall amount of cap space is lower than 2016 and 2017, and teams obviously know the Lakers would be 100% desperate to get rid of his deal for 2 maxes. It's literally impossible to have 2 maxes unless 2/3 (and likely all 3) of JC/Deng/Jules are moved/stretched.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:04 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Megaton wrote:
It kills me to say but if Zubac continues to show regression, we could really include him as a sweetener with Clarkson and Deng.

With Kuzma being the stretch forward we've been looking for, play Nance as a backup 5 and Kuzma backup 4. We're going to continue to play small ball either way.

Man I didn't think I would be saying that for a long while.


Given today's NBA, not sure how much of a sweetener sweet Zub is. Look at a guy like Kanter and Okafor. Old school big men.


If Kuzma is legit, the sweetener is gonna be Nance or Randle
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:14 am    Post subject:

I don't think they'll move anyone before the start of the season unless they get a valid offer involving Deng. I think they'll roll with this squad and see how they're doing come the trade deadline. If they're fighting for the 8th seed I see them holding on to the main contributors of the squad and make their moves in the off season ( not including Deng who should be moved any chance they get). If they're too far out from and 8th seed then I see them moving JC and hopefully Deng at the deadline.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:25 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Given today's NBA, not sure how much of a sweetener sweet Zub is. Look at a guy like Kanter and Okafor. Old school big men.


The way he is playing, he is like a sweetener of Stevia courtesy Walter White.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:41 am    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
I don't think they'll move anyone before the start of the season unless they get a valid offer involving Deng. I think they'll roll with this squad and see how they're doing come the trade deadline. If they're fighting for the 8th seed I see them holding on to the main contributors of the squad and make their moves in the off season ( not including Deng who should be moved any chance they get). If they're too far out from and 8th seed then I see them moving JC and hopefully Deng at the deadline.

I think they need to get Deng on the court at PF with Lonzo. Zo might actually make Deng look like he can still play.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:51 am    Post subject:

DoubleClutch wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I don't think they'll move anyone before the start of the season unless they get a valid offer involving Deng. I think they'll roll with this squad and see how they're doing come the trade deadline. If they're fighting for the 8th seed I see them holding on to the main contributors of the squad and make their moves in the off season ( not including Deng who should be moved any chance they get). If they're too far out from and 8th seed then I see them moving JC and hopefully Deng at the deadline.

I think they need to get Deng on the court at PF with Lonzo. Zo might actually make Deng look like he can still play.


Good luck with that....Randle, Nance and Kuzma are ahead of him at PF. And Ingram and Brewer are ahead of him at SF...and to top it off he's too slow to play SF. Deng is absolutely done...I just hope his agent finds a taker form him and we can deal Deng and his disastrous contract.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:06 am    Post subject:

Rehabbing Deng's value may prove illusory.

More so than rehabbing Deng's value, we need development time for Jules/Nance/Kuz, especially b/c Jules is a RFA (and if we want to keep him, we would need to trade JC + Deng (with $0 coming back).
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:14 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Rehabbing Deng's value may prove illusory.

More so than rehabbing Deng's value, we need development time for Jules/Nance/Kuz, especially b/c Jules is a RFA (and if we want to keep him, we would need to trade JC + Deng (with $0 coming back).


Bingo!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:35 am    Post subject:

I love what Earvin and Rob are doing. Signing KPC to a 1 year deal doesn't get in the way of signing two max players in 2018 and gives us a chance to be competitive in 2017. They didn't do a Deng, Mozgov albatross deal.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:47 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Wildchild027 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Wildchild027 wrote:
One team I see hasn't been mention for Deng is Utah. They have their guards with Rubio, Donovan and Exum, but they are a little lite on stretch 4's. The only one on the roster is Jebreko.

The reason I think the Jazz could look at Deng is Derrick Favors being a UFA. Do the Jazz really want to invest 20M a year into Favors? If we can give them Deng, plus two picks, does that make them bite?

Interesting to hear people thoughts.


pretty sure they would rather put $20 Million into Favors over $18 Million into Deng


You think they rather pay Favors 80 million + over 4 years, or pay Deng 36 million over 2, with two or three picks for their troubles?


Obviously depends on the picks, and the protections on it.

2 2nd rounders won't do much.

But 2 1st rounders would be a good deal for Utah, not sure why the Lakers do that.


We've gone through this before. LeBron/PG and keep Randle and no dead cap hit.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:50 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
Pelinka didn't mention Clarkson in his interview - trade for Belinelli IMMINENT


I realize you're just kidding, but actually the way Pelinka talks about our having 2Max already is essentially saying I either have a deal to get Deng off the books or I'm trading Jordan.


Both.


God knows I've put forth enough Deng trade ideas for Rob to have stolen one of them and pulled something off. But in case he hasn't yet, here's another one, what with the Blazers trying to toss their hat into the Melo sweepstakes.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y99kezaf

Lakers in: Faried, Barton
Lakers out: Deng, Zubac, 2020 1st (top-10 protected), 2019 CHI 2nd

Knicks in: Deng, Ed Davis, Zubac, 2018 POR 1st, 2019 CHI 2nd, 2020 LA 1st
Knicks out: Melo

Blazers in: Melo
Blazers out: Crabbe, Davis, 2018 1st, 2020 1st

Nuggets in: Crabbe, 2020 POR 1st
Nuggets out: Faried, Barton

Why the Lakers do it: We give up a similar package to what I've suggested in a possible Deng-to-CHI deal. But this time, Faried contract is not expiring, and Barton is pretty helpful. That said, Faried shouldn't be that difficult to move, as he's a useful player. Maybe we could even look to flip him immediately, given that we, too, have a logjam at the 4.

Why the Knicks do it: With the Blazers apparently desperate to get Melo, the Knicks get a second 1st round pick out of this, and this one's a 2018 pick. I think that it would be worth it for them to absorb Deng if they got back two 1st rounders and Zubac, and the CHI 2019 2nd is about as valuable a 2nd round pick as there can be.

Why the Blazers do it: As discussed, they want to surround their backcourt duo with another star. They give up 2 first round picks here, in 2018 and 2020, but they also get Crabbe's money off the books, which is why the 2020 1st goes to the Nuggets. They also shed Ed Davis here as necessary salary filler.

Why the Nuggets do it: Although Crabbe is due a lot of money, they do shed Faried's remaining $26MM or so, and he is the odd man out there. Barton is someone they are very unlikely to retain past this season anyway, and Crabbe gives them another shooter for the next 3 years (to add to Gary Harris, a guy they will have around for a while). Not only is Crabbe a better fit for their squad than Faried is, but they pick up a future 2020 1st in this scenario, which isn't too shabby considering how badly they want to dump Faried.


You forgot the deal breaker, why Melo does it?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Wildchild027 wrote:
One team I see hasn't been mention for Deng is Utah. They have their guards with Rubio, Donovan and Exum, but they are a little lite on stretch 4's. The only one on the roster is Jebreko.

The reason I think the Jazz could look at Deng is Derrick Favors being a UFA. Do the Jazz really want to invest 20M a year into Favors? If we can give them Deng, plus two picks, does that make them bite?

Interesting to hear people thoughts.


pretty sure they would rather put $20 Million into Favors over $18 Million into Deng


How about Deng, Randle, Clarkson for Favors, Joe Johnson, Alec Burkes (Sp).

Joe Johnson and Favors are expiring. Stretch out Burkes 3.5 over 3 years.

Utah gets likely upgrades in Randle and Clarkson going forward. Deng if he is a little bit motivated is just about as good as Joe Johnson at this stage of their careers.

Lakers have over 80 mill in cap space in 2018 but have to be very sure they can get their max FA targets! Thoughts?
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