Robert Horry says Hakeem Olajuwon is the best center he's ever played with
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:51 pm    Post subject: Robert Horry says Hakeem Olajuwon is the best center he's ever played with

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/09/21/robert-horry-says-hakeem-olajuwon-is-best-center-he-ever-played-with-yes-better-than-shaq/

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Robert Horry says Hakeem Olajuwon is best center he ever played with. Yes, better than Shaq.


Robert Horry was in the middle of a couple of decades of some of the NBA’s best teams — the 1990s Rockets, the early 2000s Lakers, the mid-2000s Spurs — which is how he went on to rack up seven NBA rings. His fearlessness in big moments earned him the moniker Big Shot Rob.

He also played with three of the games’ greatest big men ever — Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O’Neal, and Tim Duncan. No way to choose the greatest among those greats, right?

Wrong. Horry told Mundo Deportivo it wasn’t hard at all, part of a Q& A (translation help from Google translate).

You played with Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O’Neal, and Tim Duncan, three of the greatest big men in NBA history. I guess it’s difficult for you to say who’s the best…

No, no it’s not. It’s very easy.

Who’s the best then?

‘The Dream’ (Olajuwon) was the best. He had everything they had the other two, but more. For example, The Dream could do everything he did ‘ Shaq ‘ but also got free throws. And the truth is that the other two learned from Olajuwon, who was the best center and the best power forward history. What defines these bigs is not what they could do but what they could not do. And The Dream could do everything.

Because of the passage time — and that we associate the 1990s with Michael Jordan — Olajuwon can get overlooked. But you will never find a more polished, higher IQ big man than him. He was more than “the dream shake,” he had counters for his counter moves. He was next to unstoppable.

There’s a reason all of today’s bigs (not to mention guys like LeBron James and Kobe Bryant who work in the post) make a pilgrimage to Houston to work out with Olajuwon — they know there is a lot to learn there. He is the guru.

And he deserves a seat at the table with the best ever.
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paolomagma
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:07 pm    Post subject:

The Dream is probably the most skilled bigman ever but that doesn't mean he's the best.

Prime Shaq would destroy him.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:08 pm    Post subject:

From a skill set perspective? Probably.

From a dominance perspective? I'd roll with 1999-2002 Shaq all day.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:08 pm    Post subject:

He also said Rudy T is a greater coach than Phil and Popovich (in the past).

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:21 pm    Post subject:

the dream gave shaq that work in the finals.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:24 pm    Post subject:

paolomagma wrote:
The Dream is probably the most skilled bigman ever but that doesn't mean he's the best.

Prime Shaq would destroy him.


just not true. Shaq averaged 29.3 PPG, 11.4 RPG and 2.4 blocks in 94-95.....we can debate if he had entered his prime, but it was one of his more dominant years of his career. In the 1995 Finals, Shaq played well, Hakeem played better.

The years Horry played with Hakeem was when Hakeem was considered by many as the best or 2nd best player in the league.....so its not shocking for him to form that opinion.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:36 pm    Post subject:

I like Dream. He was my favorite player. He better than Shaq with skills but Shaq was strong like a bull.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:08 pm    Post subject:

People get too caught up with "style points."

It doesn't really matter how you get your points if your opponent can't stop you. Prime Shaq was better than Hakeem even if he got his through sheer physical domination and not pretty footwork and fakes.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:22 pm    Post subject:

BynumForThree wrote:
People get too caught up with "style points."

It doesn't really matter how you get your points if your opponent can't stop you. Prime Shaq was better than Hakeem even if he got his through sheer physical domination and not pretty footwork and fakes.


Not sure where the "style points" are that you speak of....their pure career production was very similar...

Hakeem - 18 Years - 21.8 PPG - 11.1 PPG - 2.5 APG - 3.1 BPG

Shaq - 19 Years - 23.7 PPG - 10.9 PPG - 2.5 APG - 2.3 BPG

You may decide either one was better based on Finals, MVP's, etc., but it has nothing to do with "style points" within their production. Also, Hakeem played his entire career during a period of great centers in the NBA.

BTW, I would take Shaq all day, every day, but I just don't find it surprising that many others would prefer Hakeem. Watching Hakeem in the post and the "dreamshake" on the baseline, there is no doubt where the influence of Kobe's post game was derived from.


Last edited by adkindo on Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:45 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
He also said Rudy T is a greater coach than Phil and Popovich (in the past).

Think there was a point in time where Horry pointed the blame at Phil for the Kobe-Shaq feud. As for the OP, I'd say that Hakeem was the more skilled player, but Shaq was more dominant.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:02 pm    Post subject:

What Hakeem did to David Robinson in the playoff series, was pure ownage.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:14 pm    Post subject:

Horry has been saying this for years. Nothing new. Anyone. With basics understanding of the game can see skill wise it's not even close. Not even in the same stratosphere. Shaq was like 90% athletic freak 10% skills. Hakeem came into the league also as an athletic 6'10" freak but unlike Shaq he got serious and maximized his athleticism. Big did he develop. Top 3 footwork ever: Dream, Kob, MJ.

Shaq is a better athlete given his size. Dream is the perfect center imo even though he's a little undersized. Kareem is the only center I'd say is above Dream. Wilt and Shaq were better athletes but Kareem and Dream maximized their talent.
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Last edited by 67ShelbyGT on Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BynumForThree
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:18 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
BynumForThree wrote:
People get too caught up with "style points."

It doesn't really matter how you get your points if your opponent can't stop you. Prime Shaq was better than Hakeem even if he got his through sheer physical domination and not pretty footwork and fakes.


Not sure where the "style points" are that you speak of....their pure career production was very similar...

Hakeem - 18 Years - 21.8 PPG - 11.1 PPG - 2.5 APG - 3.1 BPG

Shaq - 19 Years - 23.7 PPG - 10.9 PPG - 2.5 APG - 2.3 BPG

You may decide either one was better based on Finals, MVP's, etc., but it has nothing to do with "style points" within their production. Also, Hakeem played his entire career during a period of great centers in the NBA.

BTW, I would take Shaq all day, every day, but I just don't find it surprising that many others would prefer Hakeem. Watching Hakeem in the post and the "dreamshake" on the baseline, there is no doubt where the influence of Kobe's post game was derived from.

Hakeem at his very, VERY best (infamous D-Rob series and most of that playoff run) made an impact on games that very few players in history can claim to have made.

That said, he's generally avoided criticism over the years for whatever reason, as he struggled quite a bit with consistency and offensive efficiency for a good portion of his career (for a player as highly regarded as he is).

And as beautiful as his footwork and skill-level were, his offensive game didn't produce a high-volume of easy buckets that a Shaq or even a David Robinson could produce (his TS% generally hovered around 55% for most of his career), and part of that was because he was around 6'9" or 6'10"ish, not the 7'0" he was generously listed at. I don't want to compare him to Kobe, but compared to most of the other great bigs of his time, the degree of difficulty of shots for him was higher than for his peers (despite his superior skill-level).

And thus, his high USG%, coupled with his solid but unspectacular shooting efficiency, generally kept him from being in the LeBron/MJ/Shaq class of advanced numbers, particularly if you look at Win Shares. Now, it'd be unfair if I didn't mention that his defensive impact was immense, and that his range/athleticism/activity was ridiculous for his position. His defense is probably what separates him from Shaq but offensively? I can comfortably say Shaq has a significant edge.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:46 pm    Post subject:

I think prime Hakeem was better than prime Shaq. But it's ot like the difference was huge. But as Horry said, Hakeem didnt really have a clear weakness. Shaq had a huge glaring weakness.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:38 am    Post subject:

The Logo wrote:
kikanga wrote:
He also said Rudy T is a greater coach than Phil and Popovich (in the past).

Think there was a point in time where Horry pointed the blame at Phil for the Kobe-Shaq feud. As for the OP, I'd say that Hakeem was the more skilled player, but Shaq was more dominant.


Hey! Rudy T is currently on our payroll. Not Pop, not Zen! Maybe that's why Horry is hyping him? Or maybe part of Rudy T's agreement with the Lakers was to have Horry on Laker's TV!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:13 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
paolomagma wrote:
The Dream is probably the most skilled bigman ever but that doesn't mean he's the best.

Prime Shaq would destroy him.


just not true. Shaq averaged 29.3 PPG, 11.4 RPG and 2.4 blocks in 94-95.....we can debate if he had entered his prime, but it was one of his more dominant years of his career. In the 1995 Finals, Shaq played well, Hakeem played better.

The years Horry played with Hakeem was when Hakeem was considered by many as the best or 2nd best player in the league.....so its not shocking for him to form that opinion.


1995 Shaq isn't Prime Shaq though.
I'm talking about the "Big Diesel" from 1999-2001. The unstoppable 300lbs monster that destroyed everyone in the playoffs.

Not taking away anything from Hakeem. He's one of the greats. Just not greater than Shaq.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:37 am    Post subject:

Rob definitely has more of an affinity for his time in Houston than in LA. Which I understand because he started his career there. It kind of sucks since I think of him as a Laker, but I get it.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:42 am    Post subject:

Olajuwon is one of my favorite players ever, you can't go wrong with him. He was "pretty good" on the other end of the floor too.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:35 am    Post subject:

Can't blame him too much, he's never played with Bob Sacre.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:20 am    Post subject:

paolomagma wrote:
adkindo wrote:
paolomagma wrote:
The Dream is probably the most skilled bigman ever but that doesn't mean he's the best.

Prime Shaq would destroy him.


just not true. Shaq averaged 29.3 PPG, 11.4 RPG and 2.4 blocks in 94-95.....we can debate if he had entered his prime, but it was one of his more dominant years of his career. In the 1995 Finals, Shaq played well, Hakeem played better.

The years Horry played with Hakeem was when Hakeem was considered by many as the best or 2nd best player in the league.....so its not shocking for him to form that opinion.


1995 Shaq isn't Prime Shaq though.
I'm talking about the "Big Diesel" from 1999-2001. The unstoppable 300lbs monster that destroyed everyone in the playoffs.

Not taking away anything from Hakeem. He's one of the greats. Just not greater than Shaq.


I actually agree with Brian Shaw's view that Shaq was a more dominant player in Orlando.....although I think he became a better basketball player in LA. I saw Shaq do things during those early years with the Magic, when he was leaner and a little more athletic that I never saw in a Lakers uniform. The most unstoppable player through shear power and athleticism was Shaq's last two years in Orlando.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:55 am    Post subject:

paolomagma wrote:
The Dream is probably the most skilled bigman ever but that doesn't mean he's the best.

Prime Shaq would destroy him.
Destroy? Probably not.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:17 am    Post subject:

As far as footwork goes, Hakeem was the better of the two. But Shaq was much more dominant as far as using his physical build to accomplish his goals.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:08 am    Post subject:

Three terrific players. For one season/ one playoff series, I'd go with Hakeem. For a career, would go with Shaq - just too dominant, he bent defenses around him like a heavenly object exerting a massive gravitational pull. TD's not too bad, either, he was incredibly consistent, the consummate team player, but he could never outplay Shaq when they matched up, and he was not as good as Hakeem.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:29 am    Post subject:

Depends on your definition of best.

Hakeem may have been the better player, but I think prime Shaq gives you a better chance to win.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:38 am    Post subject:

BynumForThree wrote:
And thus, his high USG%, coupled with his solid but unspectacular shooting efficiency, generally kept him from being in the LeBron/MJ/Shaq class of advanced numbers, particularly if you look at Win Shares. Now, it'd be unfair if I didn't mention that his defensive impact was immense, and that his range/athleticism/activity was ridiculous for his position. His defense is probably what separates him from Shaq but offensively? I can comfortably say Shaq has a significant edge.


I think what keeps Hakeem from being at the top of the pantheon is more basic: He only won two rings, in years when Jordan was out; and his rep largely relies on defense, which a lot of fans don't care much about.

So it's more about having lousy teammates and fans being obsessed with offense rather than defense that hurts him.

Personally, I'd consider him and Shaq equivalent for their careers as a whole. Most people would say Shaq had a better peak, but I think that's only if you don't consider defense.

As far as advanced stats, I think very few people really care about them, and they have little impact on player's reputations.
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