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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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DaMuleRules wrote: | kaoss128 wrote: | USCandLakers wrote: | Aussiesuede wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | At least with this case we can be sure that the bad guy got the bullet. |
This wasn't the guy they were serving a warrant on. This was just some random guy who happened to be in the vicinity when the cops broke away from serving a warrant to go after him while he was committing no crime. |
Yup. I'm still waiting for the video showing he even had a gun, let alone was pointing it at them.
If a cop's yelling drop the gun and you don't have a (bleep) gun, what are you supposed to do? In Keith Scott's case, it was to stand there and be murdered. If you hear a cop scream at you to drop a gun and you don't have one, just go ahead and start praying because you're dead. |
Why would the police yell over and over drop the gun if he didn't have one? |
You'd have to ask them.
There's no gun in his hands when he was shot, as the video shows. Perhaps they were mistaken or perhaps they were trying justify their actions in front of witnesses. But being mistaken isn't an excuse to kill a man. If you are so piss poor at evaluating a potentially lethal situation that you shoot an unarmed person, you shouldn't be in law enforcement. And if that failing comes out in the course of the job, you should not only be immediately fired, you should be prosecuted for criminal negligence. And people should NOT be making excuses for the actions of an officer that shoots first and asks questions later.
It's pretty sad that we live in a country of due process and presumed innocence until proven guilty, but so many people are completely fine with cops rendering death penalties in the street over minor and petty BS. |
Fwiw, we've seen a lot of video of cops telling an inert suspect they are beating to stop resisting, so there's ample precedent. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:25 am Post subject: |
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kaoss128 wrote: | jodeke wrote: | The officers went to the location to serve a warrant. They claim to have seen a individual, first with a gun, then smoking weed, I don't recall the sequence.
Did they call their supervisor to see if diverting to the supposed infraction rather than do what they were there to d to was priority?
I talked to a policeman. He said if he were the supervisor he'd want his subordinates to let him know what was happening. |
CNN had a former LAPD sergeant on the show and she said the same thing that the policeman told you. They apparently did not report to their supervisor. |
I haven't heard anything about the person they went to serve. Did he/she just bounce? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aussiesuede Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 10964
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:03 am Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | kaoss128 wrote: | jodeke wrote: | The officers went to the location to serve a warrant. They claim to have seen a individual, first with a gun, then smoking weed, I don't recall the sequence.
Did they call their supervisor to see if diverting to the supposed infraction rather than do what they were there to d to was priority?
I talked to a policeman. He said if he were the supervisor he'd want his subordinates to let him know what was happening. |
CNN had a former LAPD sergeant on the show and she said the same thing that the policeman told you. They apparently did not report to their supervisor. |
I haven't heard anything about the person they went to serve. Did he/she just bounce? |
They gave up on serving the warrant when a kill opportunity presented itself.
Their official narrative is now as follows:
1) They arrived at the apartment complex and parked their vehicle next to the victims SUV.
2) Whilst they were getting ready to go serve their warrant, they noticed the victim rolling a joint, but decided to ignore it because they felt the warrant was more pressing.
3) Next they say they saw the victim playing with a gun inside his vehicle, then exited his vehicle to play with the gun outside, then got back in his vehicle to play with the gun some more (considering that gun nuttery is a fetish, I suppose all this playing with the gun isn't all that out of the ordinary?)
4) They decided that a joint smoker with a penchant for fondling his gun was more pressing than serving the warrant, so they backed their vehicle out of the parking space and went around the corner to change clothes and don vests which identified them as Police. They then returned a bit later and pulled up behind the victims SUV, and then we see the rest that occurred on the released tapes.
So in the final analysis, it was their professional belief that the pot smoking gun fetishist represented a more insatiable target than whomever they were there to originally serve the warrant upon so they decided to grab the bigger fish. _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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anpherknee Franchise Player
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Theseus Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2007 Posts: 13855
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:39 am Post subject: |
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These body cams aren't working out as well as I had hoped. We need to not let police turn them off and on, that is ridiculous |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Is the officer who didn't turn on his cam going to be disciplined? He didn't follow policy. This is the time for LEO to make a statement, make the officer an example. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Theseus Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2007 Posts: 13855
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:55 am Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | Is the officer who didn't turn on his cam going to be disciplined? He didn't follow policy. This is the time for LEO to make a statement, make the officer an example. |
They need to start doing this, it should always be a disciplinary event and should not only occur when an event like this occurs |
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Aussiesuede Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 10964
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | Is the officer who didn't turn on his cam going to be disciplined? He didn't follow policy. This is the time for LEO to make a statement, make the officer an example. |
We'll never know since Police Disciplinary records are private in North Carolina, and 37 other states. These records are only made public in Washington and 11 other states.
Police Secrecy _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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USCandLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 19955
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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I find it hard to believe that they don't have footage from any of these bodycams of them recovering the gun. At some point the gun that somehow ended up in a spot it previously wasn't was put there by an officer. That cop wasn't wearing a bodycam? Was the gun in the SUV? Was it on his person? Was it in the ankle holster? Why did the footage stop when it did?
One fact is very telling to me. 5 cops have their guns trained on Scott and the one with the worst view is the one and the only one of the cops to fire their weapon. No one else does. Brently Vinson's vision is being blocked by two SUVs both with their doors open. And he's the one that fires. If Scott exited the vehicle without a gun, would Vinson have even noticed? He's on Keith Scott's left side, he can't see his right hand. It's not even clear if he can see his left hand. http://i.imgur.com/Lj525Wl.jpg
But the cops that could see both hands didn't fire. Very telling. I say hook all of them up to lie detectors. _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
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Aussiesuede Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 10964
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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^^^^ For me, the most telling thing is: The guy was sitting in a vehicle that offers him some protection in the event his intent was to bring harm to officers. If that was his intent, then it makes no sense to get out of the vehicle as they'd been requesting. If he wanted to harm them, then he would have ignored them and instead used the vehicle as a weapon that would also serve as interference for potential incoming bullets. In the officers minds, what would be the point of his getting out of the vehicle? To give them a clearer shot at him?
Also, sad to say; based on Military Rules of Engagement, a serviceman would be up on charges for discharging his weapons under the exact circumstances witnessed here. Military servicemen can only discharge their weapons in response to a clear aggressive act. They can't shoot someone until the gun has been both raised and then pointed in their direction. _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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hoopschick29 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Aussiesuede wrote: | ^^^^ For me, the most telling thing is: The guy was sitting in a vehicle that offers him some protection in the event his intent was to bring harm to officers. If that was his intent, then it makes no sense to get out of the vehicle as they'd been requesting. If he wanted to harm them, then he would have ignored them and instead used the vehicle as a weapon that would also serve as interference for potential incoming bullets. In the officers minds, what would be the point of his getting out of the vehicle? To give them a clearer shot at him? |
Well that goes to the audio being muted the first 30+ seconds. If he had a gun in his hand, he wouldn't have made it out of the car. _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
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Aussiesuede Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 10964
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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hoopschick29 wrote: | Aussiesuede wrote: | ^^^^ For me, the most telling thing is: The guy was sitting in a vehicle that offers him some protection in the event his intent was to bring harm to officers. If that was his intent, then it makes no sense to get out of the vehicle as they'd been requesting. If he wanted to harm them, then he would have ignored them and instead used the vehicle as a weapon that would also serve as interference for potential incoming bullets. In the officers minds, what would be the point of his getting out of the vehicle? To give them a clearer shot at him? |
Well that goes to the audio being muted the first 30+ seconds. If he had a gun in his hand, he wouldn't have made it out of the car. |
And if he intended to shoot them, then he had plenty of opportunity whilst they were standing right next to his vehicle in clear line of sight as they were trying to bash his windows out. Again, what point would there have been for him to get out of the car if he intended them harm. They were right there in front of him, yet never did he raise his gun. His intent couldn't be more crystal clear. Never made an aggressive act, yet still perceived as a deadly threat. Does not compute. _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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hoopschick29 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Aussiesuede wrote: | hoopschick29 wrote: | Aussiesuede wrote: | ^^^^ For me, the most telling thing is: The guy was sitting in a vehicle that offers him some protection in the event his intent was to bring harm to officers. If that was his intent, then it makes no sense to get out of the vehicle as they'd been requesting. If he wanted to harm them, then he would have ignored them and instead used the vehicle as a weapon that would also serve as interference for potential incoming bullets. In the officers minds, what would be the point of his getting out of the vehicle? To give them a clearer shot at him? |
Well that goes to the audio being muted the first 30+ seconds. If he had a gun in his hand, he wouldn't have made it out of the car. |
And if he intended to shoot them, then he had plenty of opportunity whilst they were standing right next to his vehicle in clear line of sight as they were trying to bash his windows out. Again, what point would there have been for him to get out of the car if he intended them harm. They were right there in front of him, yet never did he raise his gun. His intent couldn't be more crystal clear. Never made an aggressive act, yet still perceived as a deadly threat. Does not compute. |
Judge Judy says, 'If something doesn't sense, it's because it's not true.' That 'attempt' to bash his window was conveniently part of the 30 seconds of no audio. I'm telling you, that omitted audio is huge. It's not like everything happened, and then body cam cop remembered to put on the sound. In the middle of the damn confrontation, there's no sound, and then there's sound.
Also, check out the seconds right after the shooting. Body cam cop is standing over the body and then red shirt cop comes in and kneels down. He's just about to do something when he pauses, looks up at body cam cop and ask 'Are you on?' Simple enough question, requires yes or no. But body cam cop stammers and then says, 'I don't know.' _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
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Aussiesuede Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 10964
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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hoopschick29 wrote: | Aussiesuede wrote: | hoopschick29 wrote: | Aussiesuede wrote: | ^^^^ For me, the most telling thing is: The guy was sitting in a vehicle that offers him some protection in the event his intent was to bring harm to officers. If that was his intent, then it makes no sense to get out of the vehicle as they'd been requesting. If he wanted to harm them, then he would have ignored them and instead used the vehicle as a weapon that would also serve as interference for potential incoming bullets. In the officers minds, what would be the point of his getting out of the vehicle? To give them a clearer shot at him? |
Well that goes to the audio being muted the first 30+ seconds. If he had a gun in his hand, he wouldn't have made it out of the car. |
And if he intended to shoot them, then he had plenty of opportunity whilst they were standing right next to his vehicle in clear line of sight as they were trying to bash his windows out. Again, what point would there have been for him to get out of the car if he intended them harm. They were right there in front of him, yet never did he raise his gun. His intent couldn't be more crystal clear. Never made an aggressive act, yet still perceived as a deadly threat. Does not compute. |
Judge Judy says, 'If something doesn't sense, it's because it's not true.' That 'attempt' to bash his window was conveniently part of the 30 seconds of no audio. I'm telling you, that omitted audio is huge. It's not like everything happened, and then body cam cop remembered to put on the sound. In the middle of the damn confrontation, there's no sound, and then there's sound.
Also, check out the seconds right after the shooting. Body cam cop is standing over the body and then red shirt cop comes in and kneels down. He's just about to do something when he pauses, looks up at body cam cop and ask 'Are you on?' Simple enough question, requires yes or no. But body cam cop stammers and then says, 'I don't know.' |
In fairness, that particular body cam must be manually turned on. Prior to anOfficer pressing the on button, it just continuosly recorded video and save the most recent 30 seconds. It never records audio until the Officer presses the "On" button and at that point it retains the prior 30 seconds of video and starts recording both audio and video from that point. So the equipment operated exactly as it was designed to. In violation of department policy, the Officer did not turn the device on when he arrived on the scene as he was supposed to. That's the reason for the initial lack of Audio - Officer incompetency. _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Aussiesuede wrote: | jodeke wrote: | Is the officer who didn't turn on his cam going to be disciplined? He didn't follow policy. This is the time for LEO to make a statement, make the officer an example. |
We'll never know since Police Disciplinary records are private in North Carolina, and 37 other states. These records are only made public in Washington and 11 other states.
Police Secrecy |
Quote: | This is the time for LEO to make a statement, make the officer an example |
There are exceptions to rules. IMO this is the time for an exception. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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The police are releasing Scott's domestic violence record. What does that have to do with him being shot and killed?
This is something that happens every time they kill someone. They make the victim the bad guy. I'd like to see the public court records of the cop that shot him.
Court records reveal Keith Scott's wife filed restraining order
LINK _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aussiesuede Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 10964
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | The Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department said Friday night that it will release more than two hours of video footage of the scene where an officer fatally shot Keith Lamont Scott, a reversal from the department’s previous stance.
In a statement, police spokesman Rob Tufano said the department will honor a request from Scott’s family to make public all dashboard camera and body camera footage the department has of the Sept. 20 shooting.
Authorities will allow the family to view the footage sometime next week, before providing it to the public, Tufano said. The statement did not specify what day or time.
The announcement followed a letter sent at 2:30 p.m. Friday to Police Chief Kerrr Putney and City Manager Ron Kimble from a coalition of media organizations organized by The Charlotte Observer. In it, attorney Jon Buchan termed the letter “a final request” for the release of the remaining video.
Police body camera captured another 16 minutes of footage and the dashcam recorded an additional hour and 50 minutes that police did not make available.
Putney told the Observer earlier this week that he decided to withhold the footage because it was too graphic and too disturbing to release. |
CMPD To Release All 2 Hours of Video _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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USCandLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 19955
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Aussiesuede wrote: | Quote: | The Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department said Friday night that it will release more than two hours of video footage of the scene where an officer fatally shot Keith Lamont Scott, a reversal from the department’s previous stance.
In a statement, police spokesman Rob Tufano said the department will honor a request from Scott’s family to make public all dashboard camera and body camera footage the department has of the Sept. 20 shooting.
Authorities will allow the family to view the footage sometime next week, before providing it to the public, Tufano said. The statement did not specify what day or time.
The announcement followed a letter sent at 2:30 p.m. Friday to Police Chief Kerrr Putney and City Manager Ron Kimble from a coalition of media organizations organized by The Charlotte Observer. In it, attorney Jon Buchan termed the letter “a final request” for the release of the remaining video.
Police body camera captured another 16 minutes of footage and the dashcam recorded an additional hour and 50 minutes that police did not make available.
Putney told the Observer earlier this week that he decided to withhold the footage because it was too graphic and too disturbing to release. |
CMPD To Release All 2 Hours of Video |
Will the gun finally make its appearance? _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
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Aussiesuede Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 10964
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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16 Minute Video Released _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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USCandLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 19955
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Did you catch sight of the gun anywhere in the footage? _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
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Aussiesuede Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 10964
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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USCandLakers wrote: |
Did you catch sight of the gun anywhere in the footage? |
No gun in the video. There is a brief view of a holster on his ankle at about the 6:03 mark. _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Aussiesuede wrote: | USCandLakers wrote: |
Did you catch sight of the gun anywhere in the footage? |
No gun in the video. There is a brief view of a holster on his ankle at about the 6:03 mark. |
I heard "stay with the gun" on several occasions. I didn't see one but I think there was one because of the cop administering aid said it multiple times. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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hoopschick29 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:15 am Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | Aussiesuede wrote: | USCandLakers wrote: |
Did you catch sight of the gun anywhere in the footage? |
No gun in the video. There is a brief view of a holster on his ankle at about the 6:03 mark. |
I heard "stay with the gun" on several occasions. I didn't see one but I think there was one because of the cop administering aid said it multiple times. |
Middle of day. All this footage and not ONE clear shot of Keith Scott holding a gun. That's a problem for me. And that's not to say there wasn't a gun there, I'm not even disputing that he was in possession of a firearm. But as clear as you can see the cops with guns in their hands, you should be able to see at least one clear shot of him holding a gun in his hand. Not only is there not a clear shot, there's nothing until the gun magically appears next to his body in a 'first you don't see it, now you do' moment. As for the cop saying 'stay with the gun,' you have to remember at this point, they are all acutely aware that the cameras are rolling. Remember Red Shirt Cop kneeling over the body to do something and then stopping himself looking up at Body Cam Cop and asking, 'Are you on?' _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13811 Location: Boulder ;)
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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hoopschick29 wrote: | jodeke wrote: | Aussiesuede wrote: | USCandLakers wrote: |
Did you catch sight of the gun anywhere in the footage? |
No gun in the video. There is a brief view of a holster on his ankle at about the 6:03 mark. |
I heard "stay with the gun" on several occasions. I didn't see one but I think there was one because of the cop administering aid said it multiple times. |
Middle of day. All this footage and not ONE clear shot of Keith Scott holding a gun. That's a problem for me. And that's not to say there wasn't a gun there, I'm not even disputing that he was in possession of a firearm. But as clear as you can see the cops with guns in their hands, you should be able to see at least one clear shot of him holding a gun in his hand. Not only is there not a clear shot, there's nothing until the gun magically appears next to his body in a 'first you don't see it, now you do' moment. As for the cop saying 'stay with the gun,' you have to remember at this point, they are all acutely aware that the cameras are rolling. Remember Red Shirt Cop kneeling over the body to do something and then stopping himself looking up at Body Cam Cop and asking, 'Are you on?' |
I did see and hear that. It didn't connect until you mentioned it. Makes it look a bit shady. He could have been planting something. Also asking "are you on?" causes me to believe they turn on when they choose, not when they're supposed to. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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