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| Who won the debate |
| Hillary Clinton |
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57% |
[ 44 ] |
| Donald Trump |
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15% |
[ 12 ] |
| Neither |
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21% |
[ 16 ] |
| Other |
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5% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 76 |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
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 Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Tark the Shark wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: |
Not surprising at all. It's as if nobody at Camp Hillary understands that she needs to start paying lip service to how she's going to change government in Washington. She doesn't have to even mean it, but she does need to at least say something about how she will. That's the little nugget many undecideds are waiting for, yet Camp Hillary seems clueless to it. It's baffling.  |
Team Hillary is smart enough to know the instant she did that, you and the other critics would jump all over her as fake. |
She is fake. Early in her career she was a progressive activist. Over the past two or three decades, she has become more centrist as she and Bill have become wealthier and politically elite. When Bernie came along, she tried to shift left again to hold off his challenge. She hasn't been a liberal for over 20 years. |
You just described most people, who tend to get less radical and more centrist over time. And she is liberal on a number of things. But whatever, she's someone who should always do the other thing. And even now, the argument she's getting is that she should be more fake. |
A pragmatic centrist is probably the least popular kind of politician there is. They're always not radical enough for the entrenched campers, and if they aren't blessed with a ton of charisma they can't be the conduit for people's emotions (which is what most people look for in a candidate). That's why we generally hear most people describe her as either too conservative or too liberal. You don't get to exercise your anger with Hillary Clinton, or feel we are on the doorstep to progressive utopia.
And yet even still, socialist Bernie Sanders and Republican President George Bush are both casting their vote for her. Newspapers that have either never endorsed a Democrat or haven't done so in decades are doing just that. People love a race and want to feel like this is a hard choice when it isn't.
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tlim
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Joined: 26 Jun 2002
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Uhhh. Silver now puts it at 55% for Trump.
All I can say is that we deserve it if we elect him. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| tlim wrote: | Uhhh. Silver now puts it at 55% for Trump.
All I can say is that we deserve it if we elect him. |
He actually has it 55%for hillary.
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | tlim wrote: | Uhhh. Silver now puts it at 55% for Trump.
All I can say is that we deserve it if we elect him. |
He actually has it 55%for hillary. |
it's still unbelivable that it's essentially 50-50 |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | tlim wrote: | Uhhh. Silver now puts it at 55% for Trump.
All I can say is that we deserve it if we elect him. |
He actually has it 55%for hillary. |
it's still unbelivable that it's essentially 50-50 |
It's always going to be pretty close. Even in the last election, Obama had like 51% of the popular vote but it was basically a landslide considering Mitt could have won any state that Obama won and he still would not have won.
The popular vote counts don't really tell a story based on electoral college rules. Even though Obama is "only" taking 51% of the votes, that has typically been more than enough for Democratic candidates to win the presidency.
Bill Clinton, for instance, never won 50% of the votes despite winning in back to back years =)
In fact, I don't think a democratic president has ever taken 51% of the popular votes and lost the election. |
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ChefLinda
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| It's going to take a week for the new polls to reflect the debate. Patience, Grasshoppers. |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25080
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | tlim wrote: | Uhhh. Silver now puts it at 55% for Trump.
All I can say is that we deserve it if we elect him. |
He actually has it 55%for hillary. |
it's still unbelivable that it's essentially 50-50 |
It's always going to be pretty close. Even in the last election, Obama had like 51% of the popular vote but it was basically a landslide considering Mitt could have won any state that Obama won and he still would not have won.
The popular vote counts don't really tell a story based on electoral college rules. Even though Obama is "only" taking 51% of the votes, that has typically been more than enough for Democratic candidates to win the presidency.
Bill Clinton, for instance, never won 50% of the votes despite winning in back to back years =)
In fact, I don't think a democratic president has ever taken 51% of the popular votes and lost the election. |
popular votes % of popular votes
1992 (in millions)
Clinton 44.9 43
G.Bush 39.1 37
Perot 19.7 18.9
1996
Clinton 47.4 49
Dole 39.2 41
Perot 8.1 8
2000
G.W.Bush 50.4 47
Gore 51.0 48
Nader 2.9 2.7
2004
G.W.Bush 62.0 50.7
Kerry 59.0 48
Nader <1 <1
2008
Obama 66.9 53
McCain 58.3 46
2012
Obama 62.6 51
Romney 59.1 48 |
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Theseus
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Tark the Shark wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: |
Not surprising at all. It's as if nobody at Camp Hillary understands that she needs to start paying lip service to how she's going to change government in Washington. She doesn't have to even mean it, but she does need to at least say something about how she will. That's the little nugget many undecideds are waiting for, yet Camp Hillary seems clueless to it. It's baffling. |
Team Hillary is smart enough to know the instant she did that, you and the other critics would jump all over her as fake. |
She is fake. Early in her career she was a progressive activist. Over the past two or three decades, she has become more centrist as she and Bill have become wealthier and politically elite. When Bernie came along, she tried to shift left again to hold off his challenge. She hasn't been a liberal for over 20 years. |
Do you think being a centrist is a bad thing? |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Shlumpledink wrote: | | Tark the Shark wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: |
Not surprising at all. It's as if nobody at Camp Hillary understands that she needs to start paying lip service to how she's going to change government in Washington. She doesn't have to even mean it, but she does need to at least say something about how she will. That's the little nugget many undecideds are waiting for, yet Camp Hillary seems clueless to it. It's baffling. |
Team Hillary is smart enough to know the instant she did that, you and the other critics would jump all over her as fake. |
She is fake. Early in her career she was a progressive activist. Over the past two or three decades, she has become more centrist as she and Bill have become wealthier and politically elite. When Bernie came along, she tried to shift left again to hold off his challenge. She hasn't been a liberal for over 20 years. |
Do you think being a centrist is a bad thing? |
Centrist is the best but can't get thru primaries |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Tark the Shark wrote:
| Quote: | | She is fake. Early in her career she was a progressive activist. Over the past two or three decades, she has become more centrist as she and Bill have become wealthier and politically elite. When Bernie came along, she tried to shift left again to hold off his challenge. She hasn't been a liberal for over 20 years. |
Name a politician that's not.
Don't all politicians leave office wealthier than when the got into office?
Reverting to what she was is a smart move. If the shoe fits.
Hillary is no better or worse than the average politician when it comes to being a politician.
I see her being treated the way she is because she's a woman. Her past political record, a great one, is overlooked.
How anyone can not choose her over a snake oil salesman is mind boggling.
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: |
Not surprising at all. It's as if nobody at Camp Hillary understands that she needs to start paying lip service to how she's going to change government in Washington. She doesn't have to even mean it, but she does need to at least say something about how she will. That's the little nugget many undecideds are waiting for, yet Camp Hillary seems clueless to it. It's baffling. |
Team Hillary is smart enough to know the instant she did that, you and the other critics would jump all over her as fake. |
She's called fake literally every single day. How on earth would that be a deterrent from trying to court those "Yes We Can" voters who thought Obama would help change Washington even though he did not? Those voters are NOT default Trump voters. Most of them despise Trump, but they most definitely desire to change Washington. If you don't even try to give them a reason to goto the polls, then they'll stay home and that puts a Clinton Presidency in great peril. She can't afford to worry about how she looks. She needs to do absolutely everything she can to guarantee she's elected. Put her personal feeling aside and do what's best for the country, and that means doing everything in her power to make sure Trump is never elected. She can lick her wounded ego after innaguration day, but right now she must chase every potential vote.
FWIW, I'm pretty certain she's steely enough to not give a crap about me, or anyone else, pointing out her fakeness. She seems like a big girl who is pretty self aware. 
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Gatekeeper
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | With such a polarizing pair of candidates; hardliners will stick to their choice no matter what the outcome of the debate. Undecideds/swing voters will determine the winner. |
still feels like Trumps' base is more solid than Hillary's. Not sure if she's gathered Bernie's base fully into her camp |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | With such a polarizing pair of candidates; hardliners will stick to their choice no matter what the outcome of the debate. Undecideds/swing voters will determine the winner. |
still feels like Trumps' base is more solid than Hillary's. Not sure if she's gathered Bernie's base fully into her camp |
Peddling the message: "I'm the only one who can goto Washington and keep things running as well as they already are" is NOT the message that's going to sway those voters.
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:37 am Post subject: |
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First post debate poll.
| Quote: | | Just 9 percent of voters said the debate changed their minds about who they will be voting for, while about eight out of 10 said it wouldn’t matter. Before the debate, Trump led Clinton by 1 point in the four-way race with Libertarian Party nominee Gary Johnson and Green Party candidate Jill Stein. But Clinton now leads Trump by 3 points (41 percent to 38 percent), and in a head-to-head scenario, she leads by 4 points (45 percent to 41 percent). |
https://morningconsult.com/2016/09/28/clinton-bests-trump-debate-half-likely-voters-say/ |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Hard to believe that in a debate featuring Donald Trump that he wasn't the one coming out of it looking like an arrogant ass.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Hard to believe that in a debate featuring Donald Trump that he wasn't the one coming out of it looking like an arrogant ass. |
Hard to believe that anyone who watched the debate could come to any other conclusion than he alone did just that.
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Wilt
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | tlim wrote: | Uhhh. Silver now puts it at 55% for Trump.
All I can say is that we deserve it if we elect him. |
He actually has it 55%for hillary. |
it's still unbelivable that it's essentially 50-50 |
As of right now, it's:
60-40 (now cast, if the election were held today)
58-42 (polls only, what the polls tell us)
56-44 (polls plus, what polls and historical data tells us)
Her numbers have slightly improved over the last couple days.
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Tark the Shark
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | With such a polarizing pair of candidates; hardliners will stick to their choice no matter what the outcome of the debate. Undecideds/swing voters will determine the winner. |
still feels like Trumps' base is more solid than Hillary's. Not sure if she's gathered Bernie's base fully into her camp |
Peddling the message: "I'm the only one who can goto Washington and keep things running as well as they already are" is NOT the message that's going to sway those voters. |
Which is why Bernie's base will just sit this one out. She's not going to do anything for them once she's in office, neither is Trump. |
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audioaxes
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | With such a polarizing pair of candidates; hardliners will stick to their choice no matter what the outcome of the debate. Undecideds/swing voters will determine the winner. |
you still have to rally your base to get out and vote. Some people on side of the spectrum may never vote the other way but they also can potentially skip out of voting all together if their party's candidate doesnt inspire and motivate them |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Tark the Shark wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | With such a polarizing pair of candidates; hardliners will stick to their choice no matter what the outcome of the debate. Undecideds/swing voters will determine the winner. |
still feels like Trumps' base is more solid than Hillary's. Not sure if she's gathered Bernie's base fully into her camp |
Peddling the message: "I'm the only one who can goto Washington and keep things running as well as they already are" is NOT the message that's going to sway those voters. |
Which is why Bernie's base will just sit this one out. She's not going to do anything for them once she's in office, neither is Trump. |
I just watched Hillary and Bernie on a college campus in New Hampshire with student questions. I just wish people could actually hear Hillary discuss her college tuition plan, etc. Because its's extremely detailed and doable and when she talks to kids about it, you can tell it's very personal to her and very important to her. Judging by the reaction in that room, I'd guess those students were surprised she actually did understand their dilemma and had a concrete plan to help them. But it's easier just to say, eh Hillary's a shill and no one likes her and all millenials will just stay home. That's lazy thinking.
All her policy speeches, rallies and talks are all live on her Facebook page. For all those that say they'd like to hear more of her policy, it's right there. |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Tark the Shark wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | With such a polarizing pair of candidates; hardliners will stick to their choice no matter what the outcome of the debate. Undecideds/swing voters will determine the winner. |
still feels like Trumps' base is more solid than Hillary's. Not sure if she's gathered Bernie's base fully into her camp |
Peddling the message: "I'm the only one who can goto Washington and keep things running as well as they already are" is NOT the message that's going to sway those voters. |
Which is why Bernie's base will just sit this one out. She's not going to do anything for them once she's in office, neither is Trump. |
I'm not so sure about that. A group of 'Bernie Bros' were having a meeting in a glass door private room at a coffee shop over in Ballard. they were noticable because they were all wearing their 'Bernie for President' T shirts. A few of them stuck around after the meeting,so I asked what was up. They're trying to get out the vote for Bernie supporters, NOT because the suddenly like Clinton, but because they need her in office so they can more effectively peddle the message that she's no friend of Progressives. They're starting their campaign for 2020 already and feel the best way to invigorate their base of Bernie supporters is to have Hillary front an center as an example of just what type of Democrat they don't want in office. They play on coming as hard at her from the left as the Repugnants come at her from the right to make sure she's so weakened that they can primary her in 2020. Their message is "Do you really want to take a chance on a candidate so weak that she could barely fight off the likes of Trump, running again when you know she's gonna do nothing for you?" They plan to make the next 4 years a constant fight for her, just like the primary was. The best way to keep their message at the forefront is with Hillary front and center. Bernie supporters already know the right is evil. Hillary is their poster child for the evil of the Democrat party as well. They're going to ally with the right wingers for the express purpose of neutering Hillary for their gain.
So 'Bernie Bros' are motivated to goto the polls and vote for Hillary. It's the "Hope & Change - Yes We Can" voters who aren't as politically ardent, that needs to be courted to make sure they too come to the polls and make sure Hillary gets elected.
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Great to see the bernie Bros have gone from dumb to brain dead.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Tark the Shark wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | With such a polarizing pair of candidates; hardliners will stick to their choice no matter what the outcome of the debate. Undecideds/swing voters will determine the winner. |
still feels like Trumps' base is more solid than Hillary's. Not sure if she's gathered Bernie's base fully into her camp |
Peddling the message: "I'm the only one who can goto Washington and keep things running as well as they already are" is NOT the message that's going to sway those voters. |
Which is why Bernie's base will just sit this one out. She's not going to do anything for them once she's in office, neither is Trump. |
I just watched Hillary and Bernie on a college campus in New Hampshire with student questions. I just wish people could actually hear Hillary discuss her college tuition plan, etc. Because its's extremely detailed and doable and when she talks to kids about it, you can tell it's very personal to her and very important to her. Judging by the reaction in that room, I'd guess those students were surprised she actually did understand their dilemma and had a concrete plan to help them. But it's easier just to say, eh Hillary's a shill and no one likes her and all millenials will just stay home. That's lazy thinking.
All her policy speeches, rallies and talks are all live on her Facebook page. For all those that say they'd like to hear more of her policy, it's right there. |
Obama couldn't even make free community college a reality.
Last edited by greenfrog on Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Tark the Shark wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | With such a polarizing pair of candidates; hardliners will stick to their choice no matter what the outcome of the debate. Undecideds/swing voters will determine the winner. |
still feels like Trumps' base is more solid than Hillary's. Not sure if she's gathered Bernie's base fully into her camp |
Peddling the message: "I'm the only one who can goto Washington and keep things running as well as they already are" is NOT the message that's going to sway those voters. |
Which is why Bernie's base will just sit this one out. She's not going to do anything for them once she's in office, neither is Trump. |
I just watched Hillary and Bernie on a college campus in New Hampshire with student questions. I just wish people could actually hear Hillary discuss her college tuition plan, etc. Because its's extremely detailed and doable and when she talks to kids about it, you can tell it's very personal to her and very important to her. Judging by the reaction in that room, I'd guess those students were surprised she actually did understand their dilemma and had a concrete plan to help them. But it's easier just to say, eh Hillary's a shill and no one likes her and all millenials will just stay home. That's lazy thinking.
All her policy speeches, rallies and talks are all live on her Facebook page. For all those that say they'd like to hear more of her policy, it's right there. |
Do you have a link or a direction to find one?
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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