2016-2017 X's and O's Thread (Video links on pg 1)
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44TheLogo
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:23 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdBFLGhAIUg

^^First possession of the game it looks like they were trying to get some gaggle action going but were a little confused, probably because they aren't quite comfortable in it yet.

But it's encouraging that Randle didn't panic and force a pass or try to barrel his way to the rim when he recognized the break down. Made the correct read and immediately knew to hit Lou, and they flowed into a two man game with a pick and roll. Pretty triangle-esque lol


think maybe it was a misdirection play since they just played the same team a couple days ago. i would be interested to see if we ran the same action to get an open three at the top of the key in the previous game, because it definitely looks like julius has already moved away from nick before he's even made his cut.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:52 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
Judah wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdBFLGhAIUg

^^First possession of the game it looks like they were trying to get some gaggle action going but were a little confused, probably because they aren't quite comfortable in it yet.

But it's encouraging that Randle didn't panic and force a pass or try to barrel his way to the rim when he recognized the break down. Made the correct read and immediately knew to hit Lou, and they flowed into a two man game with a pick and roll. Pretty triangle-esque lol


think maybe it was a misdirection play since they just played the same team a couple days ago. i would be interested to see if we ran the same action to get an open three at the top of the key in the previous game, because it definitely looks like julius has already moved away from nick before he's even made his cut.

Hmm, good eye. You may be right. Both Russell and Mozgov definitely gravitated toward Nick, albeit non-aggressively.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:41 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdBFLGhAIUg

^^First possession of the game it looks like they were trying to get some gaggle action going but were a little confused, probably because they aren't quite comfortable in it yet.

But it's encouraging that Randle didn't panic and force a pass or try to barrel his way to the rim when he recognized the break down. Made the correct read and immediately knew to hit Lou, and they flowed into a two man game with a pick and roll. Pretty triangle-esque lol


You're right in that it's a Horns set with a weak side gaggle. I don't think they were confused, but the timing & screening were a bit off. Nick has the option to either come down a weak side pindown or cut baseline, which he does after Gallinari tries to beat him over the screen.

Randle could have waited to see if anyone got free before going to the handoff with Lou, but at that point, Gallinari had read the cut and recovered pretty well while Mudiay had tagged Mosgov to prevent him from slipping to the hoop so no one would have been open anyway. In a way the action did it's job because the weak side was too preoccupied to help on Randle's roll.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:58 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
Judah wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdBFLGhAIUg

^^First possession of the game it looks like they were trying to get some gaggle action going but were a little confused, probably because they aren't quite comfortable in it yet.

But it's encouraging that Randle didn't panic and force a pass or try to barrel his way to the rim when he recognized the break down. Made the correct read and immediately knew to hit Lou, and they flowed into a two man game with a pick and roll. Pretty triangle-esque lol


You're right in that it's a Horns set with a weak side gaggle. I don't think they were confused, but the timing & screening were a bit off. Nick has the option to either come down a weak side pindown or cut baseline, which he does after Gallinari tries to beat him over the screen.

Randle could have waited to see if anyone got free before going to the handoff with Lou, but at that point, Gallinari had read the cut and recovered pretty well while Mudiay had tagged Mosgov to prevent him from slipping to the hoop so no one would have been open anyway. In a way the action did it's job because the weak side was too preoccupied to help on Randle's roll.


I think it's Down One (Spurs Motion) into Horns, into that weak side gaggle w/the 2-man game on the strong side. Ingram got FTs on the same player in the 3rd (I think) when he curled off of the double down screens.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:14 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Judah wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdBFLGhAIUg

^^First possession of the game it looks like they were trying to get some gaggle action going but were a little confused, probably because they aren't quite comfortable in it yet.

But it's encouraging that Randle didn't panic and force a pass or try to barrel his way to the rim when he recognized the break down. Made the correct read and immediately knew to hit Lou, and they flowed into a two man game with a pick and roll. Pretty triangle-esque lol


You're right in that it's a Horns set with a weak side gaggle. I don't think they were confused, but the timing & screening were a bit off. Nick has the option to either come down a weak side pindown or cut baseline, which he does after Gallinari tries to beat him over the screen.

Randle could have waited to see if anyone got free before going to the handoff with Lou, but at that point, Gallinari had read the cut and recovered pretty well while Mudiay had tagged Mosgov to prevent him from slipping to the hoop so no one would have been open anyway. In a way the action did it's job because the weak side was too preoccupied to help on Randle's roll.


I think it's Down One (Spurs Motion) into Horns, into that weak side gaggle w/the 2-man game on the strong side. Ingram got FTs on the same player in the 3rd (I think) when he curled off of the double down screens.


Yeah, I didn't pull up the game to see the full play again, but they were indeed running Down One into Horns for a lot of the game. I like it a lot.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:15 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Judah wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdBFLGhAIUg

^^First possession of the game it looks like they were trying to get some gaggle action going but were a little confused, probably because they aren't quite comfortable in it yet.

But it's encouraging that Randle didn't panic and force a pass or try to barrel his way to the rim when he recognized the break down. Made the correct read and immediately knew to hit Lou, and they flowed into a two man game with a pick and roll. Pretty triangle-esque lol


You're right in that it's a Horns set with a weak side gaggle. I don't think they were confused, but the timing & screening were a bit off. Nick has the option to either come down a weak side pindown or cut baseline, which he does after Gallinari tries to beat him over the screen.

Randle could have waited to see if anyone got free before going to the handoff with Lou, but at that point, Gallinari had read the cut and recovered pretty well while Mudiay had tagged Mosgov to prevent him from slipping to the hoop so no one would have been open anyway. In a way the action did it's job because the weak side was too preoccupied to help on Randle's roll.


I think it's Down One (Spurs Motion) into Horns, into that weak side gaggle w/the 2-man game on the strong side. Ingram got FTs on the same player in the 3rd (I think) when he curled off of the double down screens.


Yeah, I didn't pull up the game to see the full play again, but they were indeed running Down One into Horns for a lot of the game. I like it a lot.


Me too. They're getting deeper into their progressions on other sets and I've seen a couple of counters as well. Last night's game was an offensive clinic.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:02 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Judah wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdBFLGhAIUg

^^First possession of the game it looks like they were trying to get some gaggle action going but were a little confused, probably because they aren't quite comfortable in it yet.

But it's encouraging that Randle didn't panic and force a pass or try to barrel his way to the rim when he recognized the break down. Made the correct read and immediately knew to hit Lou, and they flowed into a two man game with a pick and roll. Pretty triangle-esque lol


You're right in that it's a Horns set with a weak side gaggle. I don't think they were confused, but the timing & screening were a bit off. Nick has the option to either come down a weak side pindown or cut baseline, which he does after Gallinari tries to beat him over the screen.

Randle could have waited to see if anyone got free before going to the handoff with Lou, but at that point, Gallinari had read the cut and recovered pretty well while Mudiay had tagged Mosgov to prevent him from slipping to the hoop so no one would have been open anyway. In a way the action did it's job because the weak side was too preoccupied to help on Randle's roll.


I think it's Down One (Spurs Motion) into Horns, into that weak side gaggle w/the 2-man game on the strong side. Ingram got FTs on the same player in the 3rd (I think) when he curled off of the double down screens.


Yeah, I didn't pull up the game to see the full play again, but they were indeed running Down One into Horns for a lot of the game. I like it a lot.


Me too. They're getting deeper into their progressions on other sets and I've seen a couple of counters as well. Last night's game was an offensive clinic.


Seems walton knows his stuff.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:00 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Judah wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdBFLGhAIUg

^^First possession of the game it looks like they were trying to get some gaggle action going but were a little confused, probably because they aren't quite comfortable in it yet.

But it's encouraging that Randle didn't panic and force a pass or try to barrel his way to the rim when he recognized the break down. Made the correct read and immediately knew to hit Lou, and they flowed into a two man game with a pick and roll. Pretty triangle-esque lol


You're right in that it's a Horns set with a weak side gaggle. I don't think they were confused, but the timing & screening were a bit off. Nick has the option to either come down a weak side pindown or cut baseline, which he does after Gallinari tries to beat him over the screen.

Randle could have waited to see if anyone got free before going to the handoff with Lou, but at that point, Gallinari had read the cut and recovered pretty well while Mudiay had tagged Mosgov to prevent him from slipping to the hoop so no one would have been open anyway. In a way the action did it's job because the weak side was too preoccupied to help on Randle's roll.


I think it's Down One (Spurs Motion) into Horns, into that weak side gaggle w/the 2-man game on the strong side. Ingram got FTs on the same player in the 3rd (I think) when he curled off of the double down screens.


I mentioned this when we were talking about the offense a few months ago, that this is one of the massive differences between what Luke will run and the travesty of last year. If you pause right when Lou is about to make the pass and look at the help D, they aren't loading up on the strong side. They're preoccupied with their men, heads even turned and Randle gets the ball before they even react. It's that step or two of lost reaction time or anticipation that makes all the difference.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:09 pm    Post subject:

Lots of win in this thread. Judah, GT, Fiend, DB... all great stuff. Only @LG.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:12 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Lots of win in this thread. Judah, GT, Fiend, DB... all great stuff. Only @LG.


exactly this is some upper division basketball edumacation stuff here and I'm just along for the ride!!
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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:35 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Judah wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdBFLGhAIUg

^^First possession of the game it looks like they were trying to get some gaggle action going but were a little confused, probably because they aren't quite comfortable in it yet.

But it's encouraging that Randle didn't panic and force a pass or try to barrel his way to the rim when he recognized the break down. Made the correct read and immediately knew to hit Lou, and they flowed into a two man game with a pick and roll. Pretty triangle-esque lol


You're right in that it's a Horns set with a weak side gaggle. I don't think they were confused, but the timing & screening were a bit off. Nick has the option to either come down a weak side pindown or cut baseline, which he does after Gallinari tries to beat him over the screen.

Randle could have waited to see if anyone got free before going to the handoff with Lou, but at that point, Gallinari had read the cut and recovered pretty well while Mudiay had tagged Mosgov to prevent him from slipping to the hoop so no one would have been open anyway. In a way the action did it's job because the weak side was too preoccupied to help on Randle's roll.


I think it's Down One (Spurs Motion) into Horns, into that weak side gaggle w/the 2-man game on the strong side. Ingram got FTs on the same player in the 3rd (I think) when he curled off of the double down screens.


I mentioned this when we were talking about the offense a few months ago, that this is one of the massive differences between what Luke will run and the travesty of last year. If you pause right when Lou is about to make the pass and look at the help D, they aren't loading up on the strong side. They're preoccupied with their men, heads even turned and Randle gets the ball before they even react. It's that step or two of lost reaction time or anticipation that makes all the difference.


A reminder of how it used to be :

http://on.nba.com/1y9V5hS
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:44 am    Post subject:

Luke's reaction to that play is interesting
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:00 pm    Post subject:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:10 pm    Post subject:

Fiend, it appeared to me as if Luke was experimenting with the offense going through Julius a bit tonight. Can you confirm?

Is it the same set when they run Julius through the post as it is when they get DLO a post touch?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:52 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
Fiend, it appeared to me as if Luke was experimenting with the offense going through Julius a bit tonight. Can you confirm?

Is it the same set when they run Julius through the post as it is when they get DLO a post touch?


While Julius got a lot of post touches, I think it was more in the flow rather than an effort to try to play through him. Most of the sets have several options depending on what's available. For the most part he got the ball down low in semi-transition quick post entries or as part of Motion Weak, rather than the handoff-thru play that they ran for DLO.

JR did handle the ball a lot in general, bringing the ball up or making reads after ball reversals in the half court, which is part of the design of the offense.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:28 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
22 wrote:
Fiend, it appeared to me as if Luke was experimenting with the offense going through Julius a bit tonight. Can you confirm?

Is it the same set when they run Julius through the post as it is when they get DLO a post touch?


While Julius got a lot of post touches, I think it was more in the flow rather than an effort to try to play through him. Most of the sets have several options depending on what's available. For the most part he got the ball down low in semi-transition quick post entries or as part of Motion Weak, rather than the handoff-thru play that they ran for DLO.

JR did handle the ball a lot in general, bringing the ball up or making reads after ball reversals in the half court, which is part of the design of the offense.


Thank you man! That clears up my misconception. Man you are one of the gems of LG FOREAL!
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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:54 am    Post subject:

Lots of nice X's and O's details in GT's new vid. I've added it to the links on the first page.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:10 am    Post subject:

Yup, it was excellent fiend
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:00 pm    Post subject:

So what did you guys make of what they ran in the second to last possession of the game? I'm sure DLO throwing it to Randle and letting him attack one on one wasn't the way Luke drew it up lol. But I was scratching my head at why Luke even had Randle out there to begin with (rebounding, maybe?), not to mention pulling Ingram out in favor of Yi.

Also, what kind of action would you guys have preferred if you were the coach? Personally, I'm a firm believer in forcing the defense to pick their poison in a last shot situation. It drives me crazy when teams give the ball to their best player and just let him go full iso on the last play. I would've liked to see something like DLO working a double high screen involving Yi and Ingram. Both would be threats to pop, though Yi would probably be better at rolling. Ingram as the pop option worked well in SL. And if he had been healthy, I would've had Calderon and Young aligned in the opposite corners in case the defense collapsed and they found themselves open.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:53 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
So what did you guys make of what they ran in the second to last possession of the game? I'm sure DLO throwing it to Randle and letting him attack one on one wasn't the way Luke drew it up lol. But I was scratching my head at why Luke even had Randle out there to begin with (rebounding, maybe?), not to mention pulling Ingram out in favor of Yi.

Also, what kind of action would you guys have preferred if you were the coach? Personally, I'm a firm believer in forcing the defense to pick their poison in a last shot situation. It drives me crazy when teams give the ball to their best player and just let him go full iso on the last play. I would've liked to see something like DLO working a double high screen involving Yi and Ingram. Both would be threats to pop, though Yi would probably be better at rolling. Ingram as the pop option worked well in SL. And if he had been healthy, I would've had Calderon and Young aligned in the opposite corners in case the defense collapsed and they found themselves open.


They actually had a Loop play on the inbounds, where it seemed like Clarkson was going to run a triple screen along the baseline but Swaggy turned and ran the baseline screens instead (not sure if this was a read or by design).

Randle seemed confused on the play. You can see him asking Luke for directions across the court and Luke gesturing frantically for him to set the second screen. Unfortunately it was late and Swaggy didn't get separation. So DLO decided to make a play on his own and the result was a kickout to Randle for a drive.


Last edited by fiendishoc on Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:54 am    Post subject:

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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:21 am    Post subject:

GT broke down the play that we were discussing:

https://youtu.be/MsW9gz7Yelg?t=183

(Note Randle already confused by the time DLO gets the inbounds pass, looking at Luke with his palms up. Not sure what that's about.)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:58 pm    Post subject:

Luke experimenting with BI at the point is something I did not anticipate at all. I think it's been successful so far and is a tool I'd like to see the team continue to develop. I also want to see some more Randle as the ball handler in the PnR. Although that's probably easier to defend until he gets a respected jumper
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:43 am    Post subject:

Preseason full playbook (16:40)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E9ERnjYRqY
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:01 am    Post subject:

saucesconfirm wrote:
Preseason full playbook (16:40)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E9ERnjYRqY


This is great work, man! Just a heads up, the plays at 6:02, 6:27, & 6:39 are Loop rather than Floppy. They're easy to confuse because the 2nd screener in Loop emerges out on the other side, but there's no triple screen on Floppy.
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