Lou Williams Trade Value
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davidse
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:36 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Lou is one of the best players on the team, he isn't going anywhere.

Sad as both those statements may be to some.

MNO.

He's one of the best players now, but he has a two year window while surrounded by young players with a much longer timeline who will become better than him at some point in the next two seasons. He also has a coach who likely has a longer window whose system may not have a place structurally or ideologically for Lou doing what he's best at, which is iso ball. If he's not getting to the line, how much utility does Lou have?

To move forward, the Lakers may have to move backwards in the short-term by moving talent that doesn't fit.


Yet that same coach inserted Lou into the starting lineup. The mismatch you see doesn't appear to be something that Luke sees.


Exactly as he should with a player they want to showcase for a trade.

Really odd for me - having predicting this exact circumstance with Lou for over a year now, to see some people still not coming around to the idea - even when reality has caught up to the very easy prediction.

At least it's a minority now, so that's something I guess...
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject:

Yet the FO resisted trade ideas for Lou the last trade deadline. I don't think they are looking to trade him, their recent FA history has been horrible, signing a guy and then shopping him might not set well with future FAs.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:38 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Yet the FO resisted trade ideas for Lou the last trade deadline. I don't think they are looking to trade him, their recent FA history has been horrible, signing a guy and then shopping him might not set well with future FAs.


What were those trade options at the last deadline?
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Jim99187
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:18 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Yet the FO resisted trade ideas for Lou the last trade deadline. I don't think they are looking to trade him, their recent FA history has been horrible, signing a guy and then shopping him might not set well with future FAs.


NBA is business. lol look at how we signed Deng/Mozgov @ above market price.

point is you pay them good they come.

in your scenario, Rockets wont be able to sign naybody
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:59 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Yet the FO resisted trade ideas for Lou the last trade deadline. I don't think they are looking to trade him, their recent FA history has been horrible, signing a guy and then shopping him might not set well with future FAs.


What were those trade options at the last deadline?


I don't know, Mitch just said that there was interest. I guess we can assume that they were discussions that didn't interest the Lakers.
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justsomelakerfan
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:28 am    Post subject:

OK I'll come out and say it:

Past couple of games, Lou has adjusted and played all right in this offense. And he hasn't been putrid on defense, either.
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:43 am    Post subject:

justsomelakerfan wrote:
OK I'll come out and say it:

Past couple of games, Lou has adjusted and played all right in this offense. And he hasn't been putrid on defense, either.


I think that tends to happen when Lou is on a minute restriction. He only played 14 minutes. Like Nick Young, the only way Lou gets on the court is if he hustles on defense and we saw Metta take some of Lou's minutes. I think Megaton said it best - the less he plays, the more effective the team is. And that's not a knock on Lou at all - he's good for putting up points during those 3-4 minutes where the team is flat offensively. However, you want to limit the amount of times opponents can attack him since he gives up too much size. Guys like Ennis and Gordon made sure to take it to him, and while it didn't work as well last game, opponents aren't going to not attack Lou - it's just simple game planning. Kudos to BShaw or whoever limited his minutes, because I can definitely see that working long term, although Lou might be unhappy about it.


Last edited by KindCrippler2000 on Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:46 am    Post subject:

I've maintained that he should be limited to 14-15 mpg.
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RCS926
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:47 am    Post subject:

justsomelakerfan wrote:
OK I'll come out and say it:

Past couple of games, Lou has adjusted and played all right in this offense. And he hasn't been putrid on defense, either.


Lou and Swaggy are in the same boat in terms of bringing consistent effort on D and taking good shots (for the most part) within the offense. Swaggy is the better fit because he is a bigger guard and more suited to moving off the ball and shooting off the catch. However, Lou has been solid as well. It will be interesting to see who Luke chooses as the 4th guard when Calderon comes back.
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pio2u
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:06 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I've maintained that he should be limited to 14-15 mpg.


Ideal situation because he is very effective in this context.
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BobbyB
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:11 am    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
Lou is one of the best players on the team, he isn't going anywhere.

Sad as both those statements may be to some.

MNO.


Russell, Deng, Young, Clarkson, Mozgov, Nance, Ingram, randle make more of an impact on both sides of the ball than Lou does. So at best IMO he is the 9th best player on this team.
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RCS926
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:16 am    Post subject:

BobbyB wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Lou is one of the best players on the team, he isn't going anywhere.

Sad as both those statements may be to some.

MNO.


Russell, Deng, Young, Clarkson, Mozgov, Nance, Ingram, randle make more of an impact on both sides of the ball than Lou does. So at best IMO he is the 9th best player on this team.


I agree. Those 8 guys are going to be regular rotation guys for us. If/when Calderon is healthy, it will be interesting to see who Luke consistently uses as his 4th guard. I think Lou fits in nicely off the bench with JC and BI as long as he continues to move the ball and take good shots. His effort has been solid on D under Luke, and he's a better option on that end that either Huertas or Calderon.
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Jim99187
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:31 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I've maintained that he should be limited to 14-15 mpg.


ideas & best case scenario
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:11 am    Post subject:

Jim99187 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I've maintained that he should be limited to 14-15 mpg.


ideas & best case scenario


I feel like he produces the same (in a good sense) in 15mpg than he does with 25 mpg. The latter he's just too much of a drag defensively over that much time.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:06 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I've maintained that he should be limited to 14-15 mpg.


ideas & best case scenario


I feel like he produces the same (in a good sense) in 15mpg than he does with 25 mpg. The latter he's just too much of a drag defensively over that much time.


I agree with this he wasn't over used yesterday. I think the max he should play is 18 minutes per game.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:03 pm    Post subject:

Dilla_ wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I've maintained that he should be limited to 14-15 mpg.


ideas & best case scenario


I feel like he produces the same (in a good sense) in 15mpg than he does with 25 mpg. The latter he's just too much of a drag defensively over that much time.


I agree with this he wasn't over used yesterday. I think the max he should play is 18 minutes per game.


I think it varies. There are some games where he shouldn't see many minutes, and some where 20-24 is fine. I like that Luke is very much doing what they did in GS and handing out minutes more based on situation than standard rotation, while making sure to get guys a minimum amount of minutes. If Lou averages 18-20 per game, I think we will be fine.

I also think that he and Clarkson, with Ingram as the 3 who plays some 1 on O, are a better bench backcourt than anything that includes Calderon or Huertas. And Nick starting but only playing a few minutes at 2 is also pretty optimal.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:24 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Dilla_ wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I've maintained that he should be limited to 14-15 mpg.


ideas & best case scenario


I feel like he produces the same (in a good sense) in 15mpg than he does with 25 mpg. The latter he's just too much of a drag defensively over that much time.


I agree with this he wasn't over used yesterday. I think the max he should play is 18 minutes per game.


I think it varies. There are some games where he shouldn't see many minutes, and some where 20-24 is fine. I like that Luke is very much doing what they did in GS and handing out minutes more based on situation than standard rotation, while making sure to get guys a minimum amount of minutes. If Lou averages 18-20 per game, I think we will be fine.

I also think that he and Clarkson, with Ingram as the 3 who plays some 1 on O, are a better bench backcourt than anything that includes Calderon or Huertas. And Nick starting but only playing a few minutes at 2 is also pretty optimal.


I agree. Playing alongside JC and Ingram simplifies Lou's role and prevents him from having to check opposing 2s.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:41 pm    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Dilla_ wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I've maintained that he should be limited to 14-15 mpg.


ideas & best case scenario


I feel like he produces the same (in a good sense) in 15mpg than he does with 25 mpg. The latter he's just too much of a drag defensively over that much time.


I agree with this he wasn't over used yesterday. I think the max he should play is 18 minutes per game.


I think it varies. There are some games where he shouldn't see many minutes, and some where 20-24 is fine. I like that Luke is very much doing what they did in GS and handing out minutes more based on situation than standard rotation, while making sure to get guys a minimum amount of minutes. If Lou averages 18-20 per game, I think we will be fine.

I also think that he and Clarkson, with Ingram as the 3 who plays some 1 on O, are a better bench backcourt than anything that includes Calderon or Huertas. And Nick starting but only playing a few minutes at 2 is also pretty optimal.


I agree. Playing alongside JC and Ingram simplifies Lou's role and prevents him from having to check opposing 2s.


He can take the weakest guy. I'd love to see Randle and Nance or Deng with that unit as well. Just an attacking, high octane, pressuring unit.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:43 pm    Post subject:

Trade him, dude is useless unless he's on fire.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:55 pm    Post subject:

Some good ball movement by Lou tonight. That second unit was ball stopping, and he was trying to get them moving. Unfortunately some of them weren't interested in that.
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:58 pm    Post subject:

He has no trade value. Defenders do whatever they want to him. Even that no name guard backing up Westbrook took it to him.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:02 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I've maintained that he should be limited to 14-15 mpg.


I like it, this way his off nights won't kill you.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:06 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
He has no trade value. Defenders do whatever they want to him. Even that no name guard backing up Westbrook took it to him.


The only thing we could get for him is a 2nd rounder for him.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:12 pm    Post subject:

Hahaha, Lou's per 36 numbers are crazy right now. Not reflective of a whole lot this early into the season, but he's been really solid.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:25 pm    Post subject:

fontana3d wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
He has no trade value. Defenders do whatever they want to him. Even that no name guard backing up Westbrook took it to him.


The only thing we could get for him is a 2nd rounder for him.


Lou/2nd for Meeks.
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