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| Who was the better player? |
| Larry Bird |
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| Lebron James |
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slavavov
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 Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:13 pm Post subject: Who was better - Larry Bird or Lebron James? |
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Bird was before my time, but I rank him above Lebron for the same reason I rank Kobe above Lebron: mental intangibles. Bird was one of the ultimate competitors in NBA history, and had a ton of mental toughness. He played with serious, painful injuries without complaining or talking about them to the media. Bird also seemed like a really smart player, probably on the level of a savant. Plus, Bird won 3 out of 5 times in the NBA finals, compared to 3 out of 7 for Lebron - and Bird faced better teams in the finals and the ECF.
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slavavov
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: Who was better - Larry Bird or Lebron James? |
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| thaboii wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | | Bird was before my time, but I rank him above Lebron for the same reason I rank Kobe above Lebron: mental intangibles. Bird was one of the ultimate competitors in NBA history, and had a ton of mental toughness. He played with serious, painful injuries without complaining or talking about them to the media. Bird also seemed like a really smart player, probably on the level of a savant. Plus, Bird won 3 out of 5 times in the NBA finals, compared to 3 out of 7 for Lebron - and Bird faced better teams in the finals and the ECF. |
LeBron got his nose broken while posterizing prime Ibaka, didn't get a call, and finished the game. See two can play at the stunted ass hyperbole game. Garbage tier argument
Also.
LeBron only underperformed in one finals. He's been to 7. And what's more, idk why but i'll continue to deconstruct your already de-ligitimized argument- The last 4 teams LeBron has faced in the finals have been (bleep) fantastic. And he beat two of them. The two he lost?
'14 Spurs- by all accounts this team peaked in the finals and became the greatest Spurs team ever, an organization with a littany of great teams.
'15 Warriors- wow LeBron couldn't beat a 67 win team with Dellavedova and JR Smith as his 2nd and 3rd best player? Obviously he lacks mental fortitude! Hurrr durr.
As for his '07 loss... oh wow, 22 year old LeBron couldn't beat the prime big 3 Spurs with (bleep) Mo Williams and Illgauskas as his 2nd and 3rd best players. Obviously that's on LeBron.
Again, he's underformed once in the finals, (bleep) once. But keep holding things outside of his control against him. Kobe fans lol.
Utter trash thread.
I mean JFC. "Larry Bird lost before the finals, which is better than getting there and losing! Losing against lesser competition earlier and winning LESS playoff games is BETTER! DERP DERP DERP" |
Lebron has only underperformed in one finals? Really?
2007 - Lebron averaged 22, 7 and 7 while shooting 35.6%. It's understandable his team lost, but he played like crap and didn't really assert himself.
2011 - His infamous meltdown. Enough said
2013 - Lebron only played up to his standards in Game 4 and Game 7. In all the other games, either his efficiency was bad, or he was passive (or both).
2015 - People conveniently forget he shot 40% for the series, and only shot well in Game 1. People focus on the fact that he scored a bunch of points, even though his shooting percentage and efficiency was terrible for most of that series.
Bird had some bad shooting games in the finals, as did Kobe and Jordan, but more often than not he played up to his standards. Bird was one of those guys who hated losing more than he enjoyed winning, and had to win to feel OK about himself. Lebron isn't really like that.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Who was better - Larry Bird or Lebron James? |
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| thaboii wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | | Bird was before my time, but I rank him above Lebron for the same reason I rank Kobe above Lebron: mental intangibles. Bird was one of the ultimate competitors in NBA history, and had a ton of mental toughness. He played with serious, painful injuries without complaining or talking about them to the media. Bird also seemed like a really smart player, probably on the level of a savant. Plus, Bird won 3 out of 5 times in the NBA finals, compared to 3 out of 7 for Lebron - and Bird faced better teams in the finals and the ECF. |
LeBron got his nose broken while posterizing prime Ibaka, didn't get a call, and finished the game. See two can play at the stunted ass hyperbole game. Garbage tier argument
Also.
LeBron only underperformed in one finals. He's been to 7. And what's more, idk why but i'll continue to deconstruct your already de-ligitimized argument- The last 4 teams LeBron has faced in the finals have been (bleep) fantastic. And he beat two of them. The two he lost?
'14 Spurs- by all accounts this team peaked in the finals and became the greatest Spurs team ever, an organization with a littany of great teams.
'15 Warriors- wow LeBron couldn't beat a 67 win team with Dellavedova and JR Smith as his 2nd and 3rd best player? Obviously he lacks mental fortitude! Hurrr durr.
As for his '07 loss... oh wow, 22 year old LeBron couldn't beat the prime big 3 Spurs with (bleep) Mo Williams and Illgauskas as his 2nd and 3rd best players. Obviously that's on LeBron.
Again, he's underformed once in the finals, (bleep) once. But keep holding things outside of his control against him. Kobe fans lol.
Utter trash thread.
I mean JFC. "Larry Bird lost before the finals, which is better than getting there and losing! Losing against lesser competition earlier and winning LESS playoff games is BETTER! DERP DERP DERP" |
We've banned you 20 times. Why don't you find a message board in Cleveland. After this we'll just erase all your posts. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Who was better - Larry Bird or Lebron James? |
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| slavavov wrote: | | Bird was before my time, but I rank him above Lebron for the same reason I rank Kobe above Lebron: mental intangibles. Bird was one of the ultimate competitors in NBA history, and had a ton of mental toughness. He played with serious, painful injuries without complaining or talking about them to the media. Bird also seemed like a really smart player, probably on the level of a savant. Plus, Bird won 3 out of 5 times in the NBA finals, compared to 3 out of 7 for Lebron - and Bird faced better teams in the finals and the ECF. |
You can slice it different ways:
1. Bird faced tougher teams, but he was surrounded by 3-5 Hall of Famers himself. For me, that's a wash.
2. He was 3 for 5 and Lebron was 3 for 7 in the finals -- which is better? You can argue that just means Lebron reached the finals twice while Bird got booted in lower rounds. I tend to look at total rings won, and don't give much attention, pro or con, to losing in the finals.
3. Bird played with injuries. Is that a pro or con? I can't see a point in taking any credit from a player because he stayed healthy. I just look at what a player accomplished. Injuries are just part of the game, and I don't give extra credit for playing with them or don't factor in how they shorten a career.
4. I'm going to stay away from mental intangibles. It's a reasonable question, but any question involving Lebron always inflames some people around here, so I don't want to go down the black hole of such a completely subjective element. I can already see how this one will play out without needing to take part in it.
For me, it's a coin flip. Bird was amazing, and Lebron is amazing. Different games but both are tremendously impactful. Depending on my mood any given day, I could rank either above the other. Ultimately, I think Lebron will be ahead of Bird in the general concensus. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Who was better - Larry Bird or Lebron James? |
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| activeverb wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | | Bird was before my time, but I rank him above Lebron for the same reason I rank Kobe above Lebron: mental intangibles. Bird was one of the ultimate competitors in NBA history, and had a ton of mental toughness. He played with serious, painful injuries without complaining or talking about them to the media. Bird also seemed like a really smart player, probably on the level of a savant. Plus, Bird won 3 out of 5 times in the NBA finals, compared to 3 out of 7 for Lebron - and Bird faced better teams in the finals and the ECF. |
You can slice it different ways:
1. Bird faced tougher teams, but he was surrounded by 3-5 Hall of Famers himself. For me, that's a wash.
2. He was 3 for 5 and Lebron was 3 for 7 in the finals -- which is better? You can argue that just means Lebron reached the finals twice while Bird got booted in lower rounds. I tend to look at total rings won, and don't give much attention, pro or con, to losing in the finals.
3. Bird played with injuries. Is that a pro or con? I can't see a point in taking any credit from a player because he stayed healthy. I just look at what a player accomplished. Injuries are just part of the game, and I don't give extra credit for playing with them or don't factor in how they shorten a career.
4. I'm going to stay away from mental intangibles. It's a reasonable question, but any question involving Lebron always inflames some people around here, so I don't want to go down the black hole of such a completely subjective element. I can already see how this one will play out without needing to take part in it.
And then we have the issue that Bird's career is done, but Lebron's is ongoing and he just had a spectacular 5 year stretch so who knows what will happen next?
For me, it's a coin flip. Bird was amazing, and Lebron is amazing. Different games but both are tremendously impactful. Depending on my mood any given day, I could rank either above the other. Ultimately, I think Lebron will be ahead of Bird in the general concensus. |
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slavavov
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Who was better - Larry Bird or Lebron James? |
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| activeverb wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | | Bird was before my time, but I rank him above Lebron for the same reason I rank Kobe above Lebron: mental intangibles. Bird was one of the ultimate competitors in NBA history, and had a ton of mental toughness. He played with serious, painful injuries without complaining or talking about them to the media. Bird also seemed like a really smart player, probably on the level of a savant. Plus, Bird won 3 out of 5 times in the NBA finals, compared to 3 out of 7 for Lebron - and Bird faced better teams in the finals and the ECF. |
You can slice it different ways:
1. Bird faced tougher teams, but he was surrounded by 3-5 Hall of Famers himself. For me, that's a wash.
2. He was 3 for 5 and Lebron was 3 for 7 in the finals -- which is better? You can argue that just means Lebron reached the finals twice while Bird got booted in lower rounds. I tend to look at total rings won, and don't give much attention, pro or con, to losing in the finals.
3. Bird played with injuries. Is that a pro or con? I can't see a point in taking any credit from a player because he stayed healthy. I just look at what a player accomplished. Injuries are just part of the game, and I don't give extra credit for playing with them or don't factor in how they shorten a career.
4. I'm going to stay away from mental intangibles. It's a reasonable question, but any question involving Lebron always inflames some people around here, so I don't want to go down the black hole of such a completely subjective element. I can already see how this one will play out without needing to take part in it.
For me, it's a coin flip. Bird was amazing, and Lebron is amazing. Different games but both are tremendously impactful. Depending on my mood any given day, I could rank either above the other. Ultimately, I think Lebron will be ahead of Bird in the general concensus. |
The thing I admire most about Bird and Kobe is their mental intangibles. Through sheer force of will and mind over matter, they can will their team to victory under adversity and life their team above the collective sum of its parts. I'm a believer that success in sports, business, politics or anything else is mostly due to the mental aspect. Lebron doesn't have that as much. But you said you don't want to talk about that because it seems somewhat objective.
Losing in the finals hurts a player's legacy though. Getting there isn't enough. Maybe you can give Lebron somewhat of a pass for losing in 2007 and 2015, but he didn't play well in either series, so it does hurt his legacy.
The thing that really annoys me is that the media and most fans are so blinded by Lebron and the hype machine around him that they defiantly refuse to acknowledge the things that should hurt his legacy.
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Bird by far. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Who was better - Larry Bird or Lebron James? |
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| slavavov wrote: |
The thing I admire most about Bird and Kobe is their mental intangibles. Through sheer force of will and mind over matter, they can will their team to victory under adversity and life their team above the collective sum of its parts. I'm a believer that success in sports, business, politics or anything else is mostly due to the mental aspect. . |
I don't factor in mental intangibles as a separate thing in evaluating players. I look at accomplishments. I figure the mental intangibles are reflected in the accomplishments, and if they're not, they don't matter.
| slavavov wrote: | | Losing in the finals hurts a player's legacy though. Getting there isn't enough.. |
I didn't say getting there was enough. It matters how many rings you win. But I don't think too many people care or remember the finals batting average. At least I don't. If you do, cool with me.
| slavavov wrote: | | The thing that really annoys me is that the media and most fans are so blinded by Lebron and the hype machine around him that they defiantly refuse to acknowledge the things that should hurt his legacy. |
No offense, but that's an arrogant way to put it. You're suggesting the things you think are important are THE things that everyone should think are important.
The reality is, different people hold different opinions about what's important. And no one's right or wrong. We all use our individual take on stats, ring, awards, or whatever in how we judge players.
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Theseus
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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I love me some Larry Bird. One guy I never hated, even though I hated everyone he played with, and I still kind of do.
Lebron James is better though.
Larry Bird is famously humble enough to recognize other players, he even said Kobe was better than he, etc etc. I think Bird is/would be humble enough to admit that Lebron is better than he as well. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Bird was a way better shooter.....
Lebron is way more athletic. |
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slavavov
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: Who was better - Larry Bird or Lebron James? |
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[quote="activeverb"] | slavavov wrote: |
| slavavov wrote: | | The thing that really annoys me is that the media and most fans are so blinded by Lebron and the hype machine around him that they defiantly refuse to acknowledge the things that should hurt his legacy. |
No offense, but that's an arrogant way to put it. You're suggesting the things you think are important are THE things that everyone should think are important.
The reality is, different people hold different opinions about what's important. And no one's right or wrong. We all use our individual take on stats, ring, awards, or whatever in how we judge players. |
That's fair to say, and I'm not the least bit offended. We should all judge players ourselves based on their own merits and accomplishments, and not let other people form opinions for us. I value winning and mental intangibles as the deciding factors, but if someone else has a slightly different criteria or rubric to measure greatness with, that's cool. Many people these days greatly value numbers and advanced stats, but I don't value them as much as some others. There's no ONE way or method to judge greatness by, and that's what makes these debates interesting.
It just really bothers me that the media hypes him as being one of the two or three greatest players ever, and their reasoning for doing so. For example, if Lebron scored a lot of points in a championship series but shot badly (like in 2015), they'll ignore his bad shooting percentage and give him nothing but praise, but if Kobe or someone else did the same thing (like in 2008), they'll criticize him and say he played badly because he shot badly. There seems to be a double standard for Lebron, and I think it has to do with marketing and the halo effect.
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Who was better - Larry Bird or Lebron James? |
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| slavavov wrote: |
The thing I admire most about Bird and Kobe is their mental intangibles. Through sheer force of will and mind over matter, they can will their team to victory under adversity and life their team above the collective sum of its parts. |
Kinda like LeBron willing his team past Detroit to get to his first Finals, when he scored like 29 of the last 30 (something like that), had no other star on the team and was barely old enough to drink? Or when his team was down 3-2 to SA in the 2013 Finals and he willed them to victory in the last two games, hitting game winning/clinching shots in G6 and G7? Or when he was down 3-1 to a 73 win team and willed his team to 3 straight victories, including a G7 on the road, while leading every player in every category? If coming back from a 3-1 hole vs a 73 win squad isn't wiling your team to victory under adversity then I'm not sure what else would qualify. Please list more adverse situations, and a better response to said examples than being the 1st person in history to lead everyone in everything.
| slavavov wrote: |
Losing in the finals hurts a player's legacy though. |
Not as much as losing before getting to the Finals though. When it comes to winning, LeBron has been more successful than Bird. They both led teams to 3 titles but Bird got knocked out before the Finals more than LeBron did. 3-4 > 3-2.
| slavavov wrote: |
For example, if Lebron scored a lot of points in a championship series but shot badly (like in 2015), they'll ignore his bad shooting percentage and give him nothing but praise, but if Kobe or someone else did the same thing (like in 2008), they'll criticize him and say he played badly because he shot badly. There seems to be a double standard for Lebron, and I think it has to do with marketing and the halo effect. |
I can't recall an instance of any other star losing their 2nd and 3rd options and being criticized for what they shot in a series without them. Do you have an example? I don't believe a double standard exists for what we saw in 2015. I can't even recall a similar situation? |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: Who was better - Larry Bird or Lebron James? |
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| slavavov wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | slavavov wrote: |
| slavavov wrote: | | The thing that really annoys me is that the media and most fans are so blinded by Lebron and the hype machine around him that they defiantly refuse to acknowledge the things that should hurt his legacy. |
No offense, but that's an arrogant way to put it. You're suggesting the things you think are important are THE things that everyone should think are important.
The reality is, different people hold different opinions about what's important. And no one's right or wrong. We all use our individual take on stats, ring, awards, or whatever in how we judge players. |
That's fair to say, and I'm not the least bit offended. We should all judge players ourselves based on their own merits and accomplishments, and not let other people form opinions for us. I value winning and mental intangibles as the deciding factors, but if someone else has a slightly different criteria or rubric to measure greatness with, that's cool. Many people these days greatly value numbers and advanced stats, but I don't value them as much as some others. There's no ONE way or method to judge greatness by, and that's what makes these debates interesting.
It just really bothers me that the media hypes him as being one of the two or three greatest players ever, and their reasoning for doing so. For example, if Lebron scored a lot of points in a championship series but shot badly (like in 2015), they'll ignore his bad shooting percentage and give him nothing but praise, but if Kobe or someone else did the same thing (like in 2008), they'll criticize him and say he played badly because he shot badly. There seems to be a double standard for Lebron, and I think it has to do with marketing and the halo effect. |
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I would never judge players on one single element, like efficiency, in a vacuum as if everything else about their play and the conditions they faced is exactly equal. That's rarely if ever the case. it's reasonable to consider efficiency, but it's not the only thing.
Lebron shot poorly in 2015. But he put up 36-13-9 against an amazing team, and led his team to 2 wins even after Irving and Love went down and a lot of people expected them to be swept. He's had some crappy finals, but I thought he was outstanding that year. I can see why he got some finals MVP votes that year even in the loss.
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slavavov
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: Who was better - Larry Bird or Lebron James? |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | slavavov wrote: |
The thing I admire most about Bird and Kobe is their mental intangibles. Through sheer force of will and mind over matter, they can will their team to victory under adversity and life their team above the collective sum of its parts. |
Kinda like LeBron willing his team past Detroit to get to his first Finals, when he scored like 29 of the last 30 (something like that), had no other star on the team and was barely old enough to drink? Or when his team was down 3-2 to SA in the 2013 Finals and he willed them to victory in the last two games, hitting game winning/clinching shots in G6 and G7? Or when he was down 3-1 to a 73 win team and willed his team to 3 straight victories, including a G7 on the road, while leading every player in every category? If coming back from a 3-1 hole vs a 73 win squad isn't wiling your team to victory under adversity then I'm not sure what else would qualify. Please list more adverse situations, and a better response to said examples than being the 1st person in history to lead everyone in everything. |
Those are great examples, but for every one of those moments, there's at least one where Lebron either didn't assert himself or shot badly on the big stage. 2007 finals, 2010 vs Boston, 2011 and 2015. In 2014 his numbers were good vs the Spurs, but when they started falling behind in Games 3, 4 and 5 Lebron didn't take over and play well. Bird was famous for taking over in those situations and relishing the challenge at hand. Lebron doesn't really seem to relish challenges as much, although coming back from being down 3-1 in the finals really helped his legacy and was an amazing accomplishment.
| Dreamshake wrote: | | slavavov wrote: |
Losing in the finals hurts a player's legacy though. |
Not as much as losing before getting to the Finals though. When it comes to winning, LeBron has been more successful than Bird. They both led teams to 3 titles but Bird got knocked out before the Finals more than LeBron did. 3-4 > 3-2. |
I see what you're saying, but if you reach the finals more often, shouldn't you win more titles altogether? Maybe it's "ok" for him to lose in 2007 and 2015, but he should've won in 2011, and at least taken the 2014 finals to 6 games.
| Dreamshake wrote: | | slavavov wrote: |
For example, if Lebron scored a lot of points in a championship series but shot badly (like in 2015), they'll ignore his bad shooting percentage and give him nothing but praise, but if Kobe or someone else did the same thing (like in 2008), they'll criticize him and say he played badly because he shot badly. There seems to be a double standard for Lebron, and I think it has to do with marketing and the halo effect. |
I can't recall an instance of any other star losing their 2nd and 3rd options and being criticized for what they shot in a series without them. Do you have an example? I don't believe a double standard exists for what we saw in 2015. I can't even recall a similar situation? |
Are you saying that if a star playing is missing their 2nd and 3rd options, it's ok for them to shoot like crap for most of the series, and that we should praise him for scoring a bunch of points and ignore his bad efficiency? If a man shoots badly in a championship series, it is what it is. He played badly offensively. I don't see how Lebron missing Irving and Love is an excuse that allows us to give him a complete pass for shooting badly.
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:00 am Post subject: |
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Bird
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cathy78
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Did Lebron start to learn some post moves or why is this even a question? |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Who was better - Larry Bird or Lebron James? |
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| slavavov wrote: |
Those are great examples, but for every one of those moments, there's at least one where Lebron either didn't assert himself or shot badly on the big stage. 2007 finals, 2010 vs Boston, 2011 and 2015. |
There are multiple moments like that for the other players you think had the "will to win" as well. Take Kobe for example. 2004 Finals, 2008 Finals, 2006 vs Phoenix, 2011 vs Dallas, etc.
| slavavov wrote: |
I see what you're saying, but if you reach the finals more often, shouldn't you win more titles altogether? Maybe it's "ok" for him to lose in 2007 and 2015, but he should've won in 2011, and at least taken the 2014 finals to 6 games. |
Every season that you don't hoist the trophy you failed. Bird failed earlier more than LeBron did. Making a Finals and losing is more successful than not making the Finals.
| slavavov wrote: |
Are you saying that if a star playing is missing their 2nd and 3rd options, it's ok for them to shoot like crap for most of the series, and that we should praise him for scoring a bunch of points and ignore his bad efficiency? |
I'm responding to your comment about a double standard existing. If that were true, then there should be other instances of guys getting blasted in similar situations. I can't recall one.
To answer your question, I can overlook garbage shooting when you almost avg a trip dub and lead a team that shoulda been swept to two wins after losing two All-Star type players and your best players are Knick rejects like JR Smith. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:39 am Post subject: |
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I loved Bird, growing up in the Midwest I saw many of his games at Indiana State. But I have to go with Lebron based mainly on durability, Bird was damaged goods while Lebron is consistently dominant.
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Huey Lewis & The News
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Even an admitted LeBron hater like me knows LeBron is better.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | I loved Bird, growing up in the Midwest I saw many of his games at Indiana State. But I have to go with Lebron based mainly on durability, Bird was damaged goods while Lebron is consistently dominant. |
It's hard to make an apples-to-apples comparison.
Lebron started in the league at age 18, Bird at age 23. So because of the different eras, Lebron got a 5-year head start.
Lebron is turning 32, which is the age Bird began having health issues. He was done at age 33 or 34.
Assuming Lebron keeps going at a high level, it's fair to give him the longevity edge.
To me the biggest selling point for Bird is he joined a 29-win team and with no significant additions or changes (like guys returning from injuries), it jumped to 61 wins in his rookie season.
I don't think any other player in NBA history has demonstrated that kind of individual impact on a team. |
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| City_Dawg wrote: | | Even an admitted LeBron hater like me knows LeBron is better. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I have immense respect for Larry Bird. Lebron has surpassed him, though. |
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governator
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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LeBron.
Although for the youngsters, Larry put up monster statline in his prime |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | Bird was a way better shooter.....
Lebron is way more athletic. |
It's impossible for me not to recognize that Larry did more with less, same goes for Magic. It's not LeBron's fault he's that physically superior, but one is almost forced to concede that Bird would be incrementally more effective as his athletic ability were incrementally increased. Bron is a smart player, but I don't have him on the Magic, Mike, Larry level in that regard. I think the mental game Bird played is something that can be used to distinguish the two. Bron has gotten much better in that aspect over the years, I'll admit. He's probably at the junction of his physical and mental (via experience) peaks.
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