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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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 Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | I agree with just about everything except for Dunn over Ingram. That's insanity, and if that was such a popular and obvious thought that a lot of writers are suddenly coming out of the woodworks to call, then why was Ingram projected at the 1st and 2nd spots in every single mock draft? Where was Dunn? That's absolute sensationalist crap.
Everything else was a pretty fair evaluation. I agree with the takes on all the players listed here. I don't think it's a given that the Lakers have the 2nd best young core in the league. I also don't believe that you build a great team solely through the draft. We have two players with awesome potential in DLO/Ingram, that's a great start. |
Especially when Dunn has sucked ass in the preseason. |
Defensively he hasn't, its just his jumper. Thibs announced after six preseason games that he plans to start Dunn by December, and he responded with his best shooting night so far.
Also the question was "Dunn at 27 or Ingram at 24?", Not "who's better". |
His jumper and his decisionmaking have been Mudiay-esque, which isn't a good look for an experienced 22 year old.
Thibs didn't announce anything about Dunn starting, that was taken from anonymous sources in a Woj article which claimed that Thibs wants Dunn to start by December. If that report is to be believed, Thibs is a fool who can't judge talent. |
Wow. Guys really do stop developing at 22.
Thibs wants the guy to start because he can rebound, push tempo, and is a thief with the basketball.
I think the fact that they're trying to start him in 20 games is a big deal. |
Rubio provides all of that along with better decisionmaking, vision, and FT shooting. Without a better shot, Dunn does nothing that Rubio doesn't do better right now and likely will for the next several seasons. Not that Dunn won't help the Wolves as a talented backup PG, which they've desperately needed, but starting him in 20 games is blindly ignoring the reality that he's nowhere near as good as Rubio.
And I'm looking forward to how good DLo will be when he turns 22. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | I agree with just about everything except for Dunn over Ingram. That's insanity, and if that was such a popular and obvious thought that a lot of writers are suddenly coming out of the woodworks to call, then why was Ingram projected at the 1st and 2nd spots in every single mock draft? Where was Dunn? That's absolute sensationalist crap.
Everything else was a pretty fair evaluation. I agree with the takes on all the players listed here. I don't think it's a given that the Lakers have the 2nd best young core in the league. I also don't believe that you build a great team solely through the draft. We have two players with awesome potential in DLO/Ingram, that's a great start. |
Especially when Dunn has sucked ass in the preseason. |
Defensively he hasn't, its just his jumper. Thibs announced after six preseason games that he plans to start Dunn by December, and he responded with his best shooting night so far.
Also the question was "Dunn at 27 or Ingram at 24?", Not "who's better". |
His jumper and his decisionmaking have been Mudiay-esque, which isn't a good look for an experienced 22 year old.
Thibs didn't announce anything about Dunn starting, that was taken from anonymous sources in a Woj article which claimed that Thibs wants Dunn to start by December. If that report is to be believed, Thibs is a fool who can't judge talent. |
Wow. Guys really do stop developing at 22.
Thibs wants the guy to start because he can rebound, push tempo, and is a thief with the basketball.
I think the fact that they're trying to start him in 20 games is a big deal. |
Rubio provides all of that along with better decisionmaking, vision, and FT shooting. Without a better shot, Dunn does nothing that Rubio doesn't do better right now and likely will for the next several seasons. Not that Dunn won't help the Wolves as a talented backup PG, which they've desperately needed, but starting him in 20 games is blindly ignoring the reality that he's nowhere near as good as Rubio.
And I'm looking forward to how good DLo will be when he turns 22. |
Rubio has been in the league awhile. How much do you really think he has improved?
Dunn hasn't even started a game and fans that are expecting immediate results are already crapping on the guy. "He's 22 and he should be polished." No, not really.
What's worse is knowing that Dunn is a streaky shooter and has shot better at the NCAA level than Rubio during his younger years. But, Rubio can't play PG-man defense like Dunn. He's not as athletic as Dunn.
Can you fix decision-making? Haven't we seen that from Russell already?
Can you fix jumpshooting? Having we seen that from multiple NBA players?
| Quote: | | And I'm looking forward to how good DLo will be when he turns 22 |
Irrelevant to the argument, but frankly so am I.
If anything, the fact that Rubio possibly losing his starting position after being a #6 pick with several years into the NBA, clearly sends a message about how they feel about Rubio as a player, not just how much confidence they have in Dunn.
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Rubio has been in the league awhile. How much do you really think he has improved?
Dunn hasn't even started a game and fans that are expecting immediate results are already crapping on the guy. "He's 22 and he should be polished." No, not really.
What's worse is knowing that Dunn is a streaky shooter and has shot better at the NCAA level than Rubio during his younger years. But, Rubio can't play PG-man defense like Dunn. He's not as athletic as Dunn.
Can you fix decision-making? Haven't we seen that from Russell already?
Can you fix jumpshooting? Having we seen that from multiple NBA players? |
I think despite injury that Rubio has developed into clearly an elite defender and a top-8 PG in the NBA. I think Dunn will match the former, but I doubt he ever reaches the latter.
But even if I doubt that Dunn will be as good at age 26 as Rubio is now, I think it's madness and a detriment to his long-term development to expect him to be able to take over for Rubio 20 games into the season. Unless the Wolves can bring back Jimmy Butler in trade, they would be killing any chance they have at seeing the postseason this year and next by replacing Rubio with Dunn.
| Quote: | | If anything, the fact that Rubio possibly losing his starting position after being a #6 pick with several years into the NBA, clearly sends a message about how they feel about Rubio as a player, not just how much confidence they have in Dunn. |
I think it demonstrates a lack of competence more than anything else. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I think it's madness and a detriment to his long-term development to expect him to be able to take over for Rubio 20 games into the season. |
I don't see how it's a detriment. I would expect Thibs to focus on specific things on player development (decision-making in the halfcourt through gametape, jumpshot) before he earns the spot.
20 games seems like nothing but to me, it's no different from pre-All Star game Russell to post-All Star game Russell. One guy barely attacked the basket, ever. The other guy played more free and was a far greater playmaker and more confident in his shot.
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Treble Clef
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23899
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Anonymous Scout's Take on Lakers (CNNSI) |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | FreakofNature wrote: | Quote from SI: | Quote: | | "They’ll be the worst team in the West and bottom-three overall with Brooklyn and Philadelphia. … |
Well, they did end up 2-6, 3rd worst in the league in pre-season.... |
They also played 8 preseason games including two against the freaking Warriors, but whatevs. |
Most of their schedule was pretty light and every single game was at home. I didn't see anything in the preseason that suggests the 25-30 win predictions were overly pessimistic. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | I think it's madness and a detriment to his long-term development to expect him to be able to take over for Rubio 20 games into the season. |
I don't see how it's a detriment. I would expect Thibs to focus on specific things on player development (decision-making in the halfcourt through gametape, jumpshot) before he earns the spot.
20 games seems like nothing but to me, it's no different from pre-All Star game Russell to post-All Star game Russell. One guy barely attacked the basket, ever. The other guy played more free and was a far greater playmaker and more confident in his shot. |
I'm sure Dunn will improve as a rookie. But we fundamentally disagree on his upside and long-term trajectory - I think Dunn is and will be best as a backup on a good team. Forcing him into a role he's unprepared for, and I think likely will never be very good at, could be to his detriment. It certainly would be a detriment to the Wolves chances of winning in the short-term. |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | I think it's madness and a detriment to his long-term development to expect him to be able to take over for Rubio 20 games into the season. |
I don't see how it's a detriment. I would expect Thibs to focus on specific things on player development (decision-making in the halfcourt through gametape, jumpshot) before he earns the spot.
20 games seems like nothing but to me, it's no different from pre-All Star game Russell to post-All Star game Russell. One guy barely attacked the basket, ever. The other guy played more free and was a far greater playmaker and more confident in his shot. |
I'm sure Dunn will improve as a rookie. But we fundamentally disagree on his upside and long-term trajectory - I think Dunn is and will be best as a backup on a good team. Forcing him into a role he's unprepared for, and I think likely will never be very good at, could be to his detriment. It certainly would be a detriment to the Wolves chances of winning in the short-term. |
And Minnesota definitely didn't draft him to become a long term back up PG.
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | I think it's madness and a detriment to his long-term development to expect him to be able to take over for Rubio 20 games into the season. |
I don't see how it's a detriment. I would expect Thibs to focus on specific things on player development (decision-making in the halfcourt through gametape, jumpshot) before he earns the spot.
20 games seems like nothing but to me, it's no different from pre-All Star game Russell to post-All Star game Russell. One guy barely attacked the basket, ever. The other guy played more free and was a far greater playmaker and more confident in his shot. |
I'm sure Dunn will improve as a rookie. But we fundamentally disagree on his upside and long-term trajectory - I think Dunn is and will be best as a backup on a good team. Forcing him into a role he's unprepared for, and I think likely will never be very good at, could be to his detriment. It certainly would be a detriment to the Wolves chances of winning in the short-term. |
And Minnesota definitely didn't draft him to become a long term back up PG. |
They also didn't draft Derrick Williams to be an NBA journeyman. And it's not like they had spectacular options to improve their starting lineup at pick #5 - Hield or Murray would also likely be backups in MN for a few seasons. But the Wolves did fill a need for guard depth by drafting Dunn, which is a short-term win, whether their expectations for him as a good NBA starter come to reality or not. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Rumors of starting notwithstanding, Thibs praised Dunn's play, even after the statistically ineffective start. His last game as a starter with the normal starters was very productive - he helped blow it open early.
Rubio is a good on ball defender who gets in passing lanes. No way is he top 8 among starting PGs in the league. In no particular order, Irving, Curry, Lillard, Thomas, CP3, Westbrook, Walker, Wall, and Conley are miles better. Harden is essentially playing point in the D'Antoni offense. Derrick Rose has forgotten how to play 5-on-5 basketball or he'd be above Ricky too. I expect Dlo to pass him soon if not this year. Rubio is in the next tier with Reggie Jackson, Teague, Rondo, & Lowry.
Elite defender my ass ! |
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BigBallerBrand
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Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 5790
Location: LA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:39 am Post subject: |
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I honestly think the Lakers' range is between 15-43 wins.
On paper they are better than last year's team, but if they have lots of injuries etc. they might win less games than 17, so i will just round to 15 games on the low end.
On the high end, if DLO totally breaks out, if Clarkson keeps slashing and getting easy buckets without settling jump shots, if randle can get 15/10 on high efficiency and high FG%, if Nick young and Lou both have "comeback" years and are constant threats from 3 and stretch the floor, if Mozgov is healthy and protects the paint well, if Ingram has more confidence and more aggressiveness than what we have seen in preseason, if deng is healthy and plays a mentor role, then i think we can be a .500 team +1 or 2 games! Maybe just enough to get 8th seed.
And maybe upset the warriors in the first round!!!
Yes i am high, goodnight
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Gimme_the_rock
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11882
Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Why Chaz?? Why???
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saetarubia
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 6208
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Ingram has more potential than Dunn on both ends of the floor. And Dunn doesn't look as NBA ready as some claimed despite his age. Always thought he's over hyped here. Don't see super star potential in him.
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Jim99187
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Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| saetarubia wrote: | | Ingram has more potential than Dunn on both ends of the floor. And Dunn doesn't look as NBA ready as some claimed despite his age. Always thought he's over hyped here. Don't see super star potential in him. |
Ingram just turned 19? and Dunn is 22
ingram September 2, 1997
dunn March 18, 1994
so Dunn is 3.5years older then ingram |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| 15 wrote: | I honestly think the Lakers' range is between 15-43 wins.
On paper they are better than last year's team, but if they have lots of injuries etc. they might win less games than 17, so i will just round to 15 games on the low end.
On the high end, if DLO totally breaks out, if Clarkson keeps slashing and getting easy buckets without settling jump shots, if randle can get 15/10 on high efficiency and high FG%, if Nick young and Lou both have "comeback" years and are constant threats from 3 and stretch the floor, if Mozgov is healthy and protects the paint well, if Ingram has more confidence and more aggressiveness than what we have seen in preseason, if deng is healthy and plays a mentor role, then i think we can be a .500 team +1 or 2 games! Maybe just enough to get 8th seed.
And maybe upset the warriors in the first round!!!
Yes i am high, goodnight |
With the worst coach, Kobe on his last legs, hibbert and all, we won 17. With a competent coach we probably should have won 20-21 games last year.
I think we win more in the 25-32 win pocket.
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