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fiendishoc
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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Location: The (real) short corner
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 Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "I think he's done okay. I would be sitting here lying to you if I said I think he's done a great job, because I think if he'd done a great job, I'd still be there." |
If he had done a great job, you would have never been there in the first place. |
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Lakers2015
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Joined: 16 Feb 2015
Posts: 2315
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| Plaza234 wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | He's not wrong. I'm sure there's a team out there that would be talented enough to make it Byron-Proof. He did make it to two consecutive NBA Finals.
What has Jim Buss done? |
Worst mistake Jim made was okaying the hiring of Byron. Dude could have been coaching the original dream team and he would still make them look like they were playing in the 1940's. |
Again, Byron took the New Jersey Nets (who have traditionally been a crap franchise) to back-back NBA Finals.
He was in a no-win situation in Cleveland and LA. New Orleans was just an average NBA tenure.
People thinking this guy is like the worst coach ever, again, are going to get a rude awakening this year when their chosen one Luke Walton loses a ton of games too.
It's the talent. And talent acquisition is all on Jim Buss. |
Stop. Jason Kidd and Chris Paul carried him. Nobody cares about wins and losses this season. All we care about as fans is the development of D'Angelo, Brandon, Julius, JC, etc. Byron couldn't or wouldn't develop those young guys. Last year was a disgrace. As much as I love Kobe it didn't have to be all about him. You could've still developed the young talent on this roster and still allowed Kobe to get his retirement tour.
His inability to communicate with his players, his hypocrisy, benching D'Angelo and Julius even though the guys in front of them weren't better, his ridiculous rotations and lineups, the fact he had an antiquated system in place, the fact he didn't really teach defense just told players to man up, and the fact he had no accountability whatsoever.
Byron was awful. Luke is a breath of fresh air. He knows basketball. He understands this team is young, but he wants to work with them and actually teach them how play as a team and how to communicate with one another, how to hold players accountable without questioning their manhood, and how to really get them to see the big picture. Byron was a terrible NBA coach and anyone who denies that simply doesn't understand basketball.
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KBH
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Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| Plaza234 wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | Brad Stevens went 25-57 in his first season in Boston, and no one doubted his ability to coach because he established a culture and viable system for the modern NBA. . |
That's because Brad Stevens is a great coach of basketball and he proved it at Butler. It has nothing to do with what he's doing or has done in the NBA.
And people need to stop with this "modern NBA" crap. It's still basketball. It's still a 24 second shot clock. The lines on the court are the same. Stevens isn't doing anything different now than what Larry Brown did with the Pistons back in the mid 2000s. He's built a team of role playing defensive oriented players, and he's had decent success with it. But, it's not like what he's doing are any out of this world concepts.
But reading stuff like "man, our young core is awesome and are an 8th seed caliber playoff team if we only dumped Byron and had Steve Kerr coaching". Yeah, we'll see. It's not. 17 wins with Byron coaching or maybe 22 with Luke coaching. Who cares? The key to winning NBA games is either having a team defensive dynamic (like the Bulls with Thibs did, Brown with Pistons, or Stevens with Celtics) -- or simply having great individual players. Lakers have neither, and no coach is going to change that. Because it appears to me Luke Walton is certainly NOT a defensive minded coach. |
LMAO Who said this? It's easy to win an argument if you create an absurd scenario and argue against it. Feel free to believe Byron is a good NBA coach when all the objective evidence points in the other direction. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:57 am Post subject: |
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The lone Byron holdout. So hilarious.
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fontana3d
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Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 3794
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:23 am Post subject: |
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"Oh Bryon. Jim was good at his job by putting those performance clauses in your contact so when you got fried we don't have to pay your @$$ you big dummy."
Jim was the one who started the tank and also it also part of the plan to make sure Bryon doesn't make it through the whole contract. So once Kobe went away Bryon goes too. So Jim did a great job on that with the help of Mitch. |
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999
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Posts: 20266
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Byron is a sad sack. He is the worst coaching hire in laker history. But he is not the worst decision Jim made. If we had hired Phil instead dantoni. These lakers would look a lot different today.
And Jim decisions wasn't all bad he did trade to try to get us Chris Paul. That (bleep) sucker David stern stole him from us and gift wrapped him to the clippers. The clippers team since 12-present is actually our laker team. David stern cost the lakers at most 2 chips |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| Plaza234 wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | He's not wrong. I'm sure there's a team out there that would be talented enough to make it Byron-Proof. He did make it to two consecutive NBA Finals.
What has Jim Buss done? |
Worst mistake Jim made was okaying the hiring of Byron. Dude could have been coaching the original dream team and he would still make them look like they were playing in the 1940's. |
Again, Byron took the New Jersey Nets (who have traditionally been a crap franchise) to back-back NBA Finals.
He was in a no-win situation in Cleveland and LA. New Orleans was just an average NBA tenure.
People thinking this guy is like the worst coach ever, again, are going to get a rude awakening this year when their chosen one Luke Walton loses a ton of games too.
It's the talent. And talent acquisition is all on Jim Buss. |
Kidd has already been on record saying he was essentially the coach. When asked about what he remembers about Byron's offense, Kyrie has been on record saying, "All I remember was iso, iso, iso, iso." People in New Orleans have said BS was more interested in playing golf than putting in extra basketball hours. That New Orleans bit was floating around prior to the hiring and worried me. Anyway, I don't believe you actually think Byron is a good coach. I just think you hate Jim Buss that much. |
I do hate Jim Buss. And I don't think Byron Scott is a good coach. I don't think he's terrible either. I think he's an average NBA coach, and in general NBA coaching means little IMO. Very very little -especially when your talent is as bad as the Lakers are.
Coaching I think can be helpful to great teams, to nudge them over the hump. Like going from Del to Phil. Now, could the Lakers have eventually still won a title with Del Harris? I think they could have. But Phil definitely made it easier. Maybe the Warriors going from Jackson to Kerr was the difference, but even with Jackson they'd be a 55-60 win team. Maybe they still win a title, maybe they only get to the WCF? Who knows.
George Karl is thought of as being one of the best NBA coaches of all time. Yet, he was just as much of a disaster in Sacramento as all their other failed coaches.
It's just such a players league. That saying "switch the coach" and things are fixed is so short sighted and not based in reality at all.
So when Byron essentially says "If I had a better roster, I'd still be coaching" I agree with him. |
I agree with everything you said above except for I dont hate jim buss. Since there is no proof or reason to hate the guy. The guy was apart of that cp3 deal that the nba nixed due to jordan, cuban, the cavs owner crying about. He was also apart of getting rid of bynum with his horrible knees. That was two great moves. Then to come back and get nash who did very well the year prior was a solid move as well. Everything after that was about how far did the nixed cp3 deal push our org back not about how bad are the buss kids. But people want someone to blame and people have heard that magic doesnt like him and jeanie has issues with him. So we automatically assume he's trash since he hasnt won as the head guy yet. Even though he has never had the chance to get the talent. The NBA took away that chance. Kobe's injuries took away that chance, and so did that crazy nash injury.
Now he had to go into tank mode or just rebuild from scratch mode because that's what the new cba called for. The old way of grabbing FA's out of no where seems to be gone unless you already have an in his prime superstar or two current on your roster. dwade got lebron and bosh to goto miami not pat riley. lebron got love to cleveland. curry, klay, draymond got durant to come to golden state. Tim duncan, Tparker, Klendard got Aldridge to join the spurs.
Melo stayed for the money.
Derozan told you he just wants to be a loan star of the raptors never wanted to be apart of something already great. He wants his own legacy(his choice.)
These things have absolutely nothing to do with Jim buss at all. The NBA and how FA's work now has changed because the young guys have a different mentality. They no longer hate one another. They all grow up playing AAU travel ball together. In addition there doesn't seem to be any kobe, shaq type of mentalities in the nba right now. Which means they would go to any team no matter the current roster and make that team great because they knew/believed they were that great. Even though the lakers roster wasnt bad when shaq came. Shaq didn't care, he didn't ask about the roster. He knew he was great enough to change the course of any franchise regardless of the roster. Name a player in the nba that can do that on their own and knows it today aside from lebron? They dont exist anymore.
We havent seen a lebron or shaq level talent out of fresh out of college since....lebron or shaq. Yes other guys have grown up and started to ball out. But non of them have been franchise changing talent. These are things jerry west and doc buss had that jim buss does not. That's not jim's fault that the landscape has changed.
Jerry and Doc had Magic, Kareem, Shaq. These guys were immediate game changers the moment they set foot in los angeles.
Even kobe had to grow into the mamba.
is ingram a durant type of guy/ a superstar? maybe. But he will have to grow into that. So that means we will have to wait for him to turn into that type of player. This again is not Jim's fault. |
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Ziggy
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12712
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:33 am Post subject: |
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The trade veto was devastating and turned the tides of the franchise, but still doesn't excuse Jim's coaching decisions.
And the problem I have with Jeannie speaking up on the Phil non-hire is that she never mentions how he was the best fit for the team. Her reason for disagreeing with the decision is that she couldn't work with her fiance. She sounds like a whiney teenage girl. She can't seem to keep her emotions in check. |
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JH from Hemet
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Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 518
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Plaza234 wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | He's not wrong. I'm sure there's a team out there that would be talented enough to make it Byron-Proof. He did make it to two consecutive NBA Finals.
What has Jim Buss done? |
Worst mistake Jim made was okaying the hiring of Byron. Dude could have been coaching the original dream team and he would still make them look like they were playing in the 1940's. |
Again, Byron took the New Jersey Nets (who have traditionally been a crap franchise) to back-back NBA Finals.
He was in a no-win situation in Cleveland and LA. New Orleans was just an average NBA tenure.
People thinking this guy is like the worst coach ever, again, are going to get a rude awakening this year when their chosen one Luke Walton loses a ton of games too.
It's the talent. And talent acquisition is all on Jim Buss. |
Open your eyes....this team is already playing different under Luke. |
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RusselDoeee01
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Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 1072
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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I don't really see anything wrong with what he said? You are twisting the words to make it sound worse than it was. He said he "did alright" but if he really did "great" he would still be there. That makes sense because if there was a better roster, Byron would have won more games. It's pretty common sense actually.
I don't care what anyone says, even Greg Poppovich would have had us lottery bound last year. And on the other side if Byron coached the Warriors, they still would have had the best record in the league.
Is byron a good coach? No.. but in the NBA, talent far outweighs coaching |
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Boldarblood
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Posts: 296
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | laker's fan is one of the few discussing the reality of what happened.
i forgot what happened with kidd....but here's what i do know.
jason kidd has never been able to match the massive hype that he came with. he's very good, no doubt, but the hype around him was that he was the next coming of magic, or this all world point guard. he had flashes but never panned out. those nets never had a chance. everyone knew after the wcf who the champion was. i can't think of another team or years where it was so obvious. people did not care at all about the finals. and you can see here that we don't even talk about the nets finals ever, and most of that series was forgettable.
kidd also is a dumb guy. (this is not my opinion, this is well known). for some reason, people think he's a very smart bball player, and i don't know what to say about that. maybe he just knows basketball.
all this criticism of scott is so misplaced. |
What are you talking about, Jason Kidd is always considered one of the higher BBIQ through his playing career. Go do a google search for Jason Kidd BB IQ and it shows over and over in discussions with some of the highest BB IQ. You are making that up. |
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anpherknee
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Joined: 14 Mar 2014
Posts: 16933
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| wat |
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lukewaltonsdad
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Joined: 09 Jul 2014
Posts: 2983
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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AY2043
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Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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I'm probably 4 pages late or so to the party, but whatevs...
Byron, if YOU were good at your job, you'd still be here. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Jim Buss. No one had any illusions of being a contender -- it's not like the expectations were set way too high or anything. All you had to do was prove you were a competent coach capable of implementing strategies that put the players we had in the best position to succeed, while competently developing our young players. You proved to be entirely incapable of doing either of those things. In fact, you did exactly the opposite of both -- alienating the young players, and implementing an offense that looked like it came straight out of 1993.
That's why you were fired. It had nothing to do with anyone else but yourself. So stop the "woe is me" schtick, MAN UP for once in your damn life, and accept the blame yourself you sad POS |
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KBH
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Boldarblood wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | laker's fan is one of the few discussing the reality of what happened.
i forgot what happened with kidd....but here's what i do know.
jason kidd has never been able to match the massive hype that he came with. he's very good, no doubt, but the hype around him was that he was the next coming of magic, or this all world point guard. he had flashes but never panned out. those nets never had a chance. everyone knew after the wcf who the champion was. i can't think of another team or years where it was so obvious. people did not care at all about the finals. and you can see here that we don't even talk about the nets finals ever, and most of that series was forgettable.
kidd also is a dumb guy. (this is not my opinion, this is well known). for some reason, people think he's a very smart bball player, and i don't know what to say about that. maybe he just knows basketball.
all this criticism of scott is so misplaced. |
What are you talking about, Jason Kidd is always considered one of the higher BBIQ through his playing career. Go do a google search for Jason Kidd BB IQ and it shows over and over in discussions with some of the highest BB IQ. You are making that up. |
Not uncommon for him. |
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SuperboyReformed
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | Boldarblood wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | laker's fan is one of the few discussing the reality of what happened.
i forgot what happened with kidd....but here's what i do know.
jason kidd has never been able to match the massive hype that he came with. he's very good, no doubt, but the hype around him was that he was the next coming of magic, or this all world point guard. he had flashes but never panned out. those nets never had a chance. everyone knew after the wcf who the champion was. i can't think of another team or years where it was so obvious. people did not care at all about the finals. and you can see here that we don't even talk about the nets finals ever, and most of that series was forgettable.
kidd also is a dumb guy. (this is not my opinion, this is well known). for some reason, people think he's a very smart bball player, and i don't know what to say about that. maybe he just knows basketball.
all this criticism of scott is so misplaced. |
What are you talking about, Jason Kidd is always considered one of the higher BBIQ through his playing career. Go do a google search for Jason Kidd BB IQ and it shows over and over in discussions with some of the highest BB IQ. You are making that up. |
Not uncommon for him. |
i am not making this up. i'm not talking about just bbiq, regular iq. this was basically well known before he became a big star. |
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KBH
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | Boldarblood wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | laker's fan is one of the few discussing the reality of what happened.
i forgot what happened with kidd....but here's what i do know.
jason kidd has never been able to match the massive hype that he came with. he's very good, no doubt, but the hype around him was that he was the next coming of magic, or this all world point guard. he had flashes but never panned out. those nets never had a chance. everyone knew after the wcf who the champion was. i can't think of another team or years where it was so obvious. people did not care at all about the finals. and you can see here that we don't even talk about the nets finals ever, and most of that series was forgettable.
kidd also is a dumb guy. (this is not my opinion, this is well known). for some reason, people think he's a very smart bball player, and i don't know what to say about that. maybe he just knows basketball.
all this criticism of scott is so misplaced. |
What are you talking about, Jason Kidd is always considered one of the higher BBIQ through his playing career. Go do a google search for Jason Kidd BB IQ and it shows over and over in discussions with some of the highest BB IQ. You are making that up. |
Not uncommon for him. |
i am not making this up. i'm not talking about just bbiq, regular iq. this was basically well known before he became a big star. |
Then you shouldn't have said "people think he's a very smart basketball player." Moreover, talking about his actual IQ has little, if any, relevance to the subject. |
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Boldarblood
Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 296
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: |
i am not making this up. i'm not talking about just bbiq, regular iq. this was basically well known before he became a big star. |
prove it. I can find nothing on your claims. |
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foshowtime
Star Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2012
Posts: 4448
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | He's not wrong. I'm sure there's a team out there that would be talented enough to make it Byron-Proof. He did make it to two consecutive NBA Finals.
What has Jim Buss done? |
Worst mistake Jim made was okaying the hiring of Byron. Dude could have been coaching the original dream team and he would still make them look like they were playing in the 1940's. |
Again, Byron took the New Jersey Nets (who have traditionally been a crap franchise) to back-back NBA Finals.
He was in a no-win situation in Cleveland and LA. New Orleans was just an average NBA tenure.
People thinking this guy is like the worst coach ever, again, are going to get a rude awakening this year when their chosen one Luke Walton loses a ton of games too.
It's the talent. And talent acquisition is all on Jim Buss. |
The fact that you think people hate Byron simply because of the losses shows you're as disconnected from reality and his own ineptitude as Byron is. Brad Stevens went 25-57 in his first season in Boston, and no one doubted his ability to coach because he established a culture and viable system for the modern NBA. Byron wasn't fired because he lost games. He was fired because he is objectively a terrible coach who is unduly arrogant, deflects blame, falls back on platitudes rather than substance and lacks a modicum of self-awareness. |
Wow. You crushed it. Also, he loses his players and many of them hate him!
By any standard, he was the worst ever!
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BynumForThree
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Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1254
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Nnamdi21 wrote: | | If Byron was handed the 2015 warriors squad, they'd finish with 55 wins. |
He'd bench Curry and Klay for shooting too many threes and trying to challenge his "manhood." |
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paolomagma
Star Player
Joined: 29 May 2009
Posts: 2395
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Can we just stop talking about Byron already?
It's always everybody else's fault to him. I don't think that'll change.
The man needs to man up and admit to himself that he's just not as good as he thinks he is.
He'll never change that "hard nosed" mentality of his. To him, admitting mistakes is a weakness. It's not. |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | The trade veto was devastating and turned the tides of the franchise, but still doesn't excuse Jim's coaching decisions.
And the problem I have with Jeannie speaking up on the Phil non-hire is that she never mentions how he was the best fit for the team. Her reason for disagreeing with the decision is that she couldn't work with her fiance. She sounds like a whiney teenage girl. She can't seem to keep her emotions in check. |
Sure it does. Jim's coaching decisions look bad because we didnt win enough. If we had Cp3, dwight, kobe, and more cap space the following year. We would've won more games. Maybe kobe doesnt have to kill himself to get us to the playoffs and he doesnt blow out his achilles(not yet anyway.) All of a sudden mike brown doesn't look half bad. Or the same could be said for MDA.
Winning cures all.
Then you have to think aside from rick adelman when we chose mike brown instead(brown was coach of the year before). That was the only true mistake. Adelman called it quits a few seasons after. Phil told us he didnt want to really coach anymore. And he hasnt. So here we are.
We had no better options as coaches. I wish people would realize this. There were no phils after phil except for greg pop. And he wasn't leaving the spurs. So that's it. There is no other coach on phil or pops level. Now lets go to the next tier. Well the next tier can't win it all without 3 allstars on the same team. The lakers missing out on that deal destroyed that too. Since kobe got hurt, nash got hurt too. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21458
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Even the amazing D'Antoni couldn't break out of the bottom of the West under Jim Buss, so who knows. |
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AshesToAshes
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 4837
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:15 am Post subject: |
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Buck Fyron.
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KOBE!!! |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 21075
Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| ^After reading all this, my thoughts exactly. |
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