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Dave20
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 Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| The Logo wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Russell, Clarkson, Ingram, Deng, and Mozgov is a lineup I think would thrive. Nance, Black, Calderon, and Young off the bench. Luke needs to shorten the rotation. |
So you're in favor of cutting Randle completely out of the rotation? |
For the better of the team I would. He's not better than Deng or Nance at PF and he can't play C. The sooner Luke realizes this the better this team will be. Nance is a perfect fit starting at PF. |
I'm glad you're not the coach |
It won't be too long before Luke figures out Randle hurts the offensive spacing. He's going to lose his starting job if he continues to play like this. |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Russell, Clarkson, Ingram, Deng, and Mozgov is a lineup I think would thrive. Nance, Black, Calderon, and Young off the bench. Luke needs to shorten the rotation. |
So you're in favor of cutting Randle completely out of the rotation? |
For the better of the team I would. He's not better than Deng or Nance at PF and he can't play C. The sooner Luke realizes this the better this team will be. Nance is a perfect fit starting at PF. |
I'm glad you're not the coach |
It won't be too long before Luke figures out Randle hurts the offensive spacing. He's going to lose his starting job if he continues to play like this. |
There will be games where the spacing won't matter compared to the rebounding the Lakers need.
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The Logo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2013
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Russell, Clarkson, Ingram, Deng, and Mozgov is a lineup I think would thrive. Nance, Black, Calderon, and Young off the bench. Luke needs to shorten the rotation. |
So you're in favor of cutting Randle completely out of the rotation? |
For the better of the team I would. He's not better than Deng or Nance at PF and he can't play C. The sooner Luke realizes this the better this team will be. Nance is a perfect fit starting at PF. |
I'm glad you're not the coach |
It won't be too long before Luke figures out Randle hurts the offensive spacing. He's going to lose his starting job if he continues to play like this. |
And what's the justification for playing Black over Randle? FOH |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| At C Black is a much better defender and finisher. |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Russell, Clarkson, Ingram, Deng, and Mozgov is a lineup I think would thrive. Nance, Black, Calderon, and Young off the bench. Luke needs to shorten the rotation. |
So you're in favor of cutting Randle completely out of the rotation? |
For the better of the team I would. He's not better than Deng or Nance at PF and he can't play C. The sooner Luke realizes this the better this team will be. Nance is a perfect fit starting at PF. |
I'm glad you're not the coach |
It won't be too long before Luke figures out Randle hurts the offensive spacing. He's going to lose his starting job if he continues to play like this. |
There will be games where the spacing won't matter compared to the rebounding the Lakers need. |
We were out rebounded last year and we will be this year regardless if Randle starts or not. The spacing and offensive versatility is more important. Deng or Nance at PF opens up the court more for Russell and Clarkson. They are also light years better defensively.
Without Russell and Clarkson scoring efficiently we have no chance. Those two play great we'll win a lot of games. I can't defend Randle anymore he has too many flaws and some aren't fixable. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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We were out rebounded last year and we will be this year regardless if Randle starts or not |
Do you want the margin to be +7? Or +20 which has already happened during the preseason?
I think you're jumping the gun very very early, even if Randle hasn't looked like the perfect fit.
As I said earlier, at this age, this was when Draymond Green went from basically a 17% 3pt shooter to 36% from NCAA range. Green didn't have his development stunted by a major injury for a year.
Coming out of Michigan St., Dray wouldn't have looked like the perfect fit for the Warriors. Luke Walton made him a perfect fit.
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| its Randle and Lou. pretty easy to see. |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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I believe at least part of the reason Randle won't be benched is because of his lost season. If he was going to be benched it would have been his rookie year, that was his 'earn your spot ' moment a la Ingram this year. His second year it was pretty much a given that he would start over Bass. By all accounts the front office is really high on him and benching him now would just kill his confidence. You can always bench him later if it comes to that, we pretty much know what Nance is going to be. Another poster said it perfectly, Nance is more polished but Julius is more talented. They're going to let it ride with JR and let him develop into the player they expect him to be.
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The Brain
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Unless the Lakers plan to play 6 seconds or less, having Nance and Mosgov in the front court would be worse than Randle and Mosgov. At least Randle can handle the ball and bring the ball up and initiate a little. His assists in the preseason were surprising. Randle just needs to slow down and focus a little more. This will technically be his 2nd year. We have to be patient. We have to be patient with everyone.
Either way, I think the best line up is Deng and Mosgov in the front court. Deng can stretch more with his shooting and he is a vet. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| The Brain wrote: | Unless the Lakers plan to play 6 seconds or less, having Nance and Mosgov in the front court would be worse than Randle and Mosgov. At least Randle can handle the ball and bring the ball up and initiate a little. His assists in the preseason were surprising. Randle just needs to slow down and focus a little more. This will technically be his 2nd year. We have to be patient. We have to be patient with everyone.
Either way, I think the best line up is Deng and Mosgov in the front court. Deng can stretch more with his shooting and he is a vet. |
I disagree. While Randle can board and push, Nance is one of the best rim runners on the team.
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cthroatgtr
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I think the real problem is to start games there is more of a pace and deliberation. So it's let's post up Mosgov, then let's try P&R with Russell, now it is Randle's turn at isolation, wait need Lou to try something. The second unit seems more cohesive with Clarkson & Ingram moving the ball, Nick shooting from the perimeter and Nance & Black doing all of the dirty work. Perhaps swap out Randle & Nance and it may balance better. Russell & Nance had something in summer league that may carry forward into the regular season.
Deng being healthy will help as will Russell & Clarkson playing more minutes than they have in the preseason. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| cthroatgtr wrote: | I think the real problem is to start games there is more of a pace and deliberation. So it's let's post up Mosgov, then let's try P&R with Russell, now it is Randle's turn at isolation, wait need Lou to try something. The second unit seems more cohesive with Clarkson & Ingram moving the ball, Nick shooting from the perimeter and Nance & Black doing all of the dirty work. Perhaps swap out Randle & Nance and it may balance better. Russell & Nance had something in summer league that may carry forward into the regular season.
Deng being healthy will help as will Russell & Clarkson playing more minutes than they have in the preseason. |
This. It's boring, the ball doesn't move and I'm not seeing (maybe I'm just missing it) the vaunted split cuts off the post ups. |
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nash
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Joined: 23 Oct 2001
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Our starters aren't as good as most other team's starters. |
Not far from the truth. I don't remember really well, but I think just Lou and Bass had above average stats last season. We have about two strong second units, but one of them is our starting. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Russell, Clarkson, Ingram, Deng, and Mozgov is a lineup I think would thrive. Nance, Black, Calderon, and Young off the bench. Luke needs to shorten the rotation. |
So you're in favor of cutting Randle completely out of the rotation? |
For the better of the team I would. He's not better than Deng or Nance at PF and he can't play C. The sooner Luke realizes this the better this team will be. Nance is a perfect fit starting at PF. |
I'm glad you're not the coach |
It won't be too long before Luke figures out Randle hurts the offensive spacing. He's going to lose his starting job if he continues to play like this. |
Why do you assume Randle is playing in some manner that isn't what the coaching staff wants him to? He is doing what is asked of him. And I guess Luke's comments regarding development being more important than wins and losses flew over a lot of poster's heads. Some need to learn patience.
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defense
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Posts: 39544
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I think some of the disagreement on LG comes from people having different expectations. I personally see things only from a fan POV. I don't have any connections to Laker execs or the players or the media/websites and such. What I want from the team is to see the team that gives us the best chance to win each and every game, not next season or the season after that. I've grown tired of seeing what I feel is bad coaching, bad team composition and ulterior motives other than winning. When I give my opinion its because I want to see the team win nothing more, nothing less. With all that said you guys should take it easy on each other. Things get real hostile and it doesn't have to be that way. This is a great sports forum, probably the best I've seen. Lets try to keep it that way and remember that the majority of us are Laker fans. |
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PICKnPOP
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Joined: 14 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | I think some of the disagreement on LG comes from people having different expectations. I personally see things only from a fan POV. I don't have any connections to Laker execs or the players or the media/websites and such. What I want from the team is to see the team that gives us the best chance to win each and every game, not next season or the season after that. I've grown tired of seeing what I feel is bad coaching, bad team composition and ulterior motives other than winning. When I give my opinion its because I want to see the team win nothing more, nothing less. With all that said you guys should take it easy on each other. Things get real hostile and it doesn't have to be that way. This is a great sports forum, probably the best I've seen. Lets try to keep it that way and remember that the majority of us are Laker fans. |
i pretty much think the same way. best rotation to help us win games |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: reason for our slow starts during games |
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| Golden_Emperor_24K wrote: | We always come out with no energy and lack of intensity on defense; and hence trail behind usually by double digits and try to come back from behind. What/who's the main culprit here?
Is it because of new players/new system and therefore no chemistry between our players?
Is it a lineup problem itself? Is there a single player that we can single out, if we replace him we'll have better energy and defense to begin the game with?
I think our starters are outta sync. They're playing like single individuals out there rather than as a team. I'm not singling out Lou and Randle. But our defense is the weakest at the SG and PF. Either they have to give more effort on D or we replace them with Nance and Anthony Brown.
Also, i don't think our starting lineup have enough firepower to begin with. DLo is probly our best scorer in the starting lineup. When he struggles, we really have nobody else to go to. Randle is offensively limited. Lou is low % shooter who has a good game once in a while. He gets most of pts from drawing fouls. Deng and MozGov are not big time scorers.
I think Luke's gonna have to make lineup changes so we get more offensive power out there to begin the game with. For now, there's just not enough spacing and scoring out there. And he's gotta find a way to get these guys more motivated and play with more urgency and alertness. |
You guys are making good points but you guys are forgetting the obvious.
Our 2nd unit balls out due to the fact they are better than the 2nd unit they are playing. It's a lot easier to do that then for your 1st unit to be as good as or better than other teams 1st unit.
We are not a winning team yet. There's a reason why young not yet winning teams lose games. Its because their starters can't match other teams starters.
I have never seen a Losing team, that had a great starting 5 but had a crap bench. Doesn't work that way. If that were the case, we would be ready to win 45+ games. We're not there yet laker fans. Not yet.
With that said, think about it, there are plenty of losing teams with solid benches but suspect starting lineups.
Most franchises spend their money signing FA's to fill up the starting 5 or resigning their own FA's to maintain their solid to good to great starting 5. Thennnnn you put a few pennies on bench guys.
If they are home grown say like golden state. You have to wait as fans. Lose a lot early, and start to gain some momentum as the kids grow into adulthood and get smarter at the game of basketball while also working harder on their skillsets/ team chemistry. |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | I think some of the disagreement on LG comes from people having different expectations. I personally see things only from a fan POV. I don't have any connections to Laker execs or the players or the media/websites and such. What I want from the team is to see the team that gives us the best chance to win each and every game, not next season or the season after that. I've grown tired of seeing what I feel is bad coaching, bad team composition and ulterior motives other than winning. When I give my opinion its because I want to see the team win nothing more, nothing less. With all that said you guys should take it easy on each other. Things get real hostile and it doesn't have to be that way. This is a great sports forum, probably the best I've seen. Lets try to keep it that way and remember that the majority of us are Laker fans. |
I'm glad you explained your point of view. Here's the issue. What happens when your POV runs into a thing called reality?
You as a fan is sick and tired of watching the lakers lose and lose and tank. So what should they do? Not lose right? Ok, so how would you have them do that? move a few pieces around and change up their lineups? ok. our current roster isnt good enough regardless how you mix the pieces. at least not yet. So lets say you squeeze 3 more wins out of us. That's not a winning team at all. So you will be ticked off at the end of the season when we are back as a top 5 worse team in the nba. You have to look around the nba. What teams that are this young win like crazy right away? NONE do that. That's the reality I'm talking about. You can WANT or HOPE for the best but at some point you even as a fan have to be realistic about what we have right now.
FA's nowadays are running to join their buddies or form superteams. They are not mentally tough enough to believe that they themselves are a enough to turn a franchise around and then attract other FA's.
People kept saying "why would KD come to the lakers?" I said why not, if he comes so will other FA's. But if he doesnt truly understand that magnetic affect he could have. Then he will just join forces to form a super team.
Melo didn't come due to money.
Aldridge wanted to go back home to texas but he also knows he's not a true life changing superstar that can attract other high level FA's. So he went and did what? tried to sign on to a team to create a super team of him, tim, gino, parker, Kl, and david west.
Derozan ran away from the lakers because he knows he's not ever going to be on the level of a magic, kareem, kobe or even james worthy. So he settles for being the big fish in a tiny pond vs a small fish in the ocean. I get it.
These are things you as a fan need to realize before you keep upsetting yourself about the state of the lakers. With all the above being true we have to grow our kids like you grow trees. Trees take a long time to grow sorry to say.
So now, how should you watch a lakers game this season and be happy even in loses? You watch like a proud father. You sit tight and watch individual player development. When you see those guys developing and doing things that they could not originally due consistently. Thats when you become that proud dad. "yes, jordan clarkson has a real 3 pointer now" , "Yes it looks like JC is now playing solid man to man defense."
"yes.. It looks like D'angelos 3 ball is becoming more and more potent."
When you start seeing randle knock down that jumper consistently, and start finishing with his right hand consistently. or Knowing when to use his post game(he had one) vs over penetration/faceup game. When you see doing a much better job of guarding longer/taller PF's or C's when he's at the C spot playing small ball for luke.
These things should make you proud. Those are the wins in a season like this. not actual wins. actual wins are like winning playoff games. |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | I believe at least part of the reason Randle won't be benched is because of his lost season. If he was going to be benched it would have been his rookie year, that was his 'earn your spot ' moment a la Ingram this year. His second year it was pretty much a given that he would start over Bass. By all accounts the front office is really high on him and benching him now would just kill his confidence. You can always bench him later if it comes to that, we pretty much know what Nance is going to be. Another poster said it perfectly, Nance is more polished but Julius is more talented. They're going to let it ride with JR and let him develop into the player they expect him to be. |
You guys do know that Julius averaged a double double last season. and did so with the least amt of mins of any other player that averaged a double double. Yes, he's a special player. What kind of special? I dont know yet.
take a look at the list. are any of those players special in some way to you?
http://www.sportingcharts.com/nba/stats/player-double-doubles-by-season/2015/ |
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lakerican
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 3793
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:20 am Post subject: |
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...Because our starting 5 never begin a preseason game.
...Because our 1st option has a trend of starting cold. |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17687
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:31 am Post subject: |
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It would be nice to see a 3-5 game stretch of Mozgov/Randle/Deng/JC/DLO before jumping to any conclusions
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Chronicle
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Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | It would be nice to see a 3-5 game stretch of Mozgov/Randle/Deng/JC/DLO before jumping to any conclusions |
Noticeably missing is Lou who is the exact reason asked for in this thread
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:14 am Post subject: |
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How has the Moz/Randle synergy worked/not worked?
Personally, not sure that they work well together. A bit too clogged on offense.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:22 am Post subject: |
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It's Jeanie's fault. 
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LakersRGolden
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Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | How has the Moz/Randle synergy worked/not worked?
Personally, not sure that they work well together. A bit too clogged on offense. |
They don't work on offense. If Moz is the stretch big, you're screwed.
They don't work on defense. Randle is slow on rotations and can't bother shooters in the paint 70% of the time. Moz is too slow to stop penetration and still recover to the rim on the pass. |
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