Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:15 pm Post subject: Pentagon Forcing Ex-Soldiers to Repay Enlistment Bonuses
Quote:
Nearly 10,000 California National Guard soldiers have been ordered to repay huge enlistment bonuses a decade after signing up to serve in Iraq and Afghanistan, a newspaper reported Saturday.
The Pentagon demanded the money back after audits revealed overpayments by the California Guard under pressure to fill ranks and hit enlistment goals. If soldiers refuse, they could face interest charges, wage garnishments and tax liens.
Faced with a shortage of troops at the height of the two wars, California Guard officials offered bonuses of $15,000 or more for soldiers to reenlist.
A federal investigation in 2010 found thousands of bonuses and student loan payments were improperly doled out to California Guard soldiers. About 9,700 current and retired soldiers received notices to repay some or all of their bonuses with more than $22 million recovered so far.
Soldiers said they feel betrayed at having to repay the money.
“These bonuses were used to keep people in,” said Christopher Van Meter, a 42-year-old former Army captain and Iraq veteran who was awarded a Purple Heart. “People like me just got screwed.”
The Pentagon agency that oversees state Guard groups has said that bonus overpayments occurred in every state, but more so in California, which has 17,000 soldiers.
California Guard officials said they are helping soldiers and veterans file appeals with agencies that can erase the debts. But soldiers said it’s a long process and there’s no guarantee they’ll win.
Retired Army major and Iraq veteran Robert D’Andrea said he was told to repay his $20,000 because auditors could not find a copy of the contract he says he signed.
Simply Disgusting. _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35809 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:23 pm Post subject:
I hate all this BS patriotism stuff. It's all so phony. Make everyone salute members of the armed services and sing the National Anthem. Then send them off to fight pointless war and screw them out of their benefits when they come back. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:24 pm Post subject:
ringfinger wrote:
So, were the soldiers promised X and given X+Y and the Pentagon wants Y back? If so, then that is sad but I have to side with the Pentagon.
But, if soldiers were promised X by recruits and given X, then, I'm not even sure the Pentagon can legally take it back can they?
It's like, if a car salesman wants to give me a car for a price that is below cost, the car company would fire the salesman, not come after me.
But if I agreed to pay $30K for the car, only paid $27K and left the lot, they can rightfully come after me for the $3K.
they have already collected $22,000,000 from men and women who ALREADY SERVED this nation with their blood and heart
This would be civil war in any other generation.. first person to think they could come and tell me to repay the government for money they paid me and that was owed to me... might get shot in the face
you have to be one of the dumbest mfers ever born to be willing to tell a soldier it owes you money from TEN YEARS ago because the enlistment office lied to you..
I hate all this BS patriotism stuff. It's all so phony. Make everyone salute members of the armed services and sing the National Anthem. Then send them off to fight pointless war and screw them out of their benefits when they come back.
Many people are honestly patriotic and there is nothing phony about it. I will acknowledge that your cynicism is very on trend.
So, were the soldiers promised X and given X+Y and the Pentagon wants Y back? If so, then that is sad but I have to side with the Pentagon.
But, if soldiers were promised X by recruits and given X, then, I'm not even sure the Pentagon can legally take it back can they?
It's like, if a car salesman wants to give me a car for a price that is below cost, the car company would fire the salesman, not come after me.
But if I agreed to pay $30K for the car, only paid $27K and left the lot, they can rightfully come after me for the $3K.
You must be joking....
We have a country that is willing to bail out the banks to the tune of $700 billion dollars.
But we can't figure out a way to fix an error of 22 million? They are going to force these serviceman and servicewomen to pay back that money given to them thru no fault of their own. The money that was given to them is long gone, so whatever money they will attempt to recover will probably put them in financial trouble. Don't forget military service pays peanuts. It is not something you do because it has good pay. This is a Congress that passes budgets to the tune of trillions of dollars per year. I expect them to fix this problem and if they aren't well that just shows how much they care about vets after they are done with them.
I also think that such a analogy is disingenuous considering military service is paid in blood, not to mention a lot of people who give their time to the military never end up the same afterwards, for example PTSD, etc...
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:59 pm Post subject:
lakersken80 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
So, were the soldiers promised X and given X+Y and the Pentagon wants Y back? If so, then that is sad but I have to side with the Pentagon.
But, if soldiers were promised X by recruits and given X, then, I'm not even sure the Pentagon can legally take it back can they?
It's like, if a car salesman wants to give me a car for a price that is below cost, the car company would fire the salesman, not come after me.
But if I agreed to pay $30K for the car, only paid $27K and left the lot, they can rightfully come after me for the $3K.
You must be joking....
We have a country that is willing to bail out the banks to the tune of $700 billion dollars.
But we can't figure out a way to fix an error of 22 million? They are going to force these serviceman and servicewomen to pay back that money given to them thru no fault of their own. The money that was given to them is long gone, so whatever money they will attempt to recover will probably put them in financial trouble. Don't forget military service pays peanuts. It is not something you do because it has good pay. This is a Congress that passes budgets to the tune of trillions of dollars per year. I expect them to fix this problem and if they aren't well that just shows how much they care about vets after they are done with them.
I also think that such a analogy is disingenuous considering military service is paid in blood, not to mention a lot of people who give their time to the military never end up the same afterwards, for example PTSD, etc...
Exactly just what I wanted to mention
Join the military to defend your country
Leave with PTSD especially when you are told the country you just attacked didn't have WMD's
Become a politician and leave your term a multimillionaire with forever KUSH EXECUTIVE Health Care
CEO of Wells Fargo.. what he earn.. oops.. be paid even after they remove many bonuses?? ONE MAN!!!
So, were the soldiers promised X and given X+Y and the Pentagon wants Y back? If so, then that is sad but I have to side with the Pentagon.
But, if soldiers were promised X by recruits and given X, then, I'm not even sure the Pentagon can legally take it back can they?
It's like, if a car salesman wants to give me a car for a price that is below cost, the car company would fire the salesman, not come after me.
But if I agreed to pay $30K for the car, only paid $27K and left the lot, they can rightfully come after me for the $3K.
You must be joking....
We have a country that is willing to bail out the banks to the tune of $700 billion dollars.
But we can't figure out a way to fix an error of 22 million? They are going to force these serviceman and servicewomen to pay back that money given to them thru no fault of their own. The money that was given to them is long gone, so whatever money they will attempt to recover will probably put them in financial trouble. Don't forget military service pays peanuts. It is not something you do because it has good pay. This is a Congress that passes budgets to the tune of trillions of dollars per year. I expect them to fix this problem and if they aren't well that just shows how much they care about vets after they are done with them.
I also think that such a analogy is disingenuous considering military service is paid in blood, not to mention a lot of people who give their time to the military never end up the same afterwards, for example PTSD, etc...
Don't get me wrong. I feel bad either way. But there would be a difference between being promised $10K and accepting a check for $12K, and being promised a check for $10K and getting $10K. If the recruiters lied, the soldiers shouldnt have to return a single penny.
So, were the soldiers promised X and given X+Y and the Pentagon wants Y back? If so, then that is sad but I have to side with the Pentagon.
But, if soldiers were promised X by recruits and given X, then, I'm not even sure the Pentagon can legally take it back can they?
It's like, if a car salesman wants to give me a car for a price that is below cost, the car company would fire the salesman, not come after me.
But if I agreed to pay $30K for the car, only paid $27K and left the lot, they can rightfully come after me for the $3K.
You must be joking....
We have a country that is willing to bail out the banks to the tune of $700 billion dollars.
But we can't figure out a way to fix an error of 22 million? They are going to force these serviceman and servicewomen to pay back that money given to them thru no fault of their own. The money that was given to them is long gone, so whatever money they will attempt to recover will probably put them in financial trouble. Don't forget military service pays peanuts. It is not something you do because it has good pay. This is a Congress that passes budgets to the tune of trillions of dollars per year. I expect them to fix this problem and if they aren't well that just shows how much they care about vets after they are done with them.
I also think that such a analogy is disingenuous considering military service is paid in blood, not to mention a lot of people who give their time to the military never end up the same afterwards, for example PTSD, etc...
Don't get me wrong. I feel bad either way. But there would be a difference between being promised $10K and accepting a check for $12K, and being promised a check for $10K and getting $10K. If the recruiters lied, the soldiers shouldnt have to return a single penny.
Well,if you read the article, it says the California National Guard were the ones that screwed up. BTW, I think that part where they supposedly lost his contract and then forcing him to repay 20k was a terrible way to screw him over.
Dumb and disrespectful. _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
Joined: 03 Oct 2016 Posts: 515 Location: Avatar courtesy of Jodeke, my friend.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:09 am Post subject:
OregonLakerGuy wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
I hate all this BS patriotism stuff. It's all so phony. Make everyone salute members of the armed services and sing the National Anthem. Then send them off to fight pointless war and screw them out of their benefits when they come back.
Many people are honestly patriotic and there is nothing phony about it. I will acknowledge that your cynicism is very on trend.
Phony is what human beings want. Especially Americans. They want to believe in phony idol's and their ideals. Because it makes them feel good. History has records and records of it through countless regimes.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144456 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Pentagon Forcing Ex-Soldiers to Repay Enlistment Bonuses
Aussiesuede wrote:
Quote:
Nearly 10,000 California National Guard soldiers have been ordered to repay huge enlistment bonuses a decade after signing up to serve in Iraq and Afghanistan, a newspaper reported Saturday.
The Pentagon demanded the money back after audits revealed overpayments by the California Guard under pressure to fill ranks and hit enlistment goals. If soldiers refuse, they could face interest charges, wage garnishments and tax liens.
Faced with a shortage of troops at the height of the two wars, California Guard officials offered bonuses of $15,000 or more for soldiers to reenlist.
A federal investigation in 2010 found thousands of bonuses and student loan payments were improperly doled out to California Guard soldiers. About 9,700 current and retired soldiers received notices to repay some or all of their bonuses with more than $22 million recovered so far.
Soldiers said they feel betrayed at having to repay the money.
“These bonuses were used to keep people in,” said Christopher Van Meter, a 42-year-old former Army captain and Iraq veteran who was awarded a Purple Heart. “People like me just got screwed.”
The Pentagon agency that oversees state Guard groups has said that bonus overpayments occurred in every state, but more so in California, which has 17,000 soldiers.
California Guard officials said they are helping soldiers and veterans file appeals with agencies that can erase the debts. But soldiers said it’s a long process and there’s no guarantee they’ll win.
Retired Army major and Iraq veteran Robert D’Andrea said he was told to repay his $20,000 because auditors could not find a copy of the contract he says he signed.
On the part of the California National Guard. Take their official's salaries to make up for the corruption they caused. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
BTW, I think that part where they supposedly lost his contract and then forcing him to repay 20k was a terrible way to screw him over.
That's what I've been trying to wrap my head around. Unless they are claiming that he broke into an office and wrote himself a check for $20,000, then how on earth could it be HIS fault? If it was the California National Guard that presumably wrote the check, then it would seem that the Pentagon should be going after the California National Guard, not the innocent soldier. It just makes no sense. These guys didn't write themselves checks. _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67574 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:08 pm Post subject:
Is there anything President Obama or Congress can do to have the Pentagon vacate the decision for payments? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Is there anything President Obama or Congress can do to have the Pentagon vacate the decision for payments?
Congress can pass a law to prevent the Pentagon from going after the soldiers.
More info:
Quote:
Quote:
"The California National Guard does not have the authority to unilaterally waive these debts. However, the California National Guard welcomes any law passed by Congress to waive these debts.
"Until that time, our priority is to advocate for our Soldiers through this difficult process."
In its statement, the service adds that its adjutant general, Maj. Gen. David S. Baldwin, created an assistance center that has helped some of its soldiers "retain $37 million dollars of original bonus payments."
The problem of improper use of military troop-level incentives isn't limited to California — but the state has emerged as a focal point because of two factors: the large size of its Guard force, and a history of overpayments.
A scandal over the California Guard's use of bonus money was first unearthed in 2010, when the Sacramento Bee reported that its incentive program had misspent as much as $100 million.
The program's one-time leader, former master sergeant Toni Jaffe, was later sentenced to 30 months in prison, after pleading guilty to making $15 million in false claims.
When it was first discovered, that scandal was deemed "war profiteering" and was said to have benefited Guard members who hadn't logged any combat duty; high-ranking officers were mentioned. But in the years since, lower-ranking service members have complained about garnished checks and a prolonged review process, saying they've done nothing wrong.
Revelations about fraud and mismanagement in the Pentagon's retention program emerged after the program's budget swelled between 2000 and 2008 — when the Defense Department went from spending $891 million for selective reenlistment bonuses to spending $1.4 billion on them, according to a 2010 research paper by the RAND defense institute. By the end of that period, the military was also spending $625 million yearly to pay enlistment bonuses.
War Bonus Scandal _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67574 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:46 pm Post subject:
Aussiesuede wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Is there anything President Obama or Congress can do to have the Pentagon vacate the decision for payments?
Congress can pass a law to prevent the Pentagon from going after the soldiers.
More info:
Quote:
Quote:
"The California National Guard does not have the authority to unilaterally waive these debts. However, the California National Guard welcomes any law passed by Congress to waive these debts.
"Until that time, our priority is to advocate for our Soldiers through this difficult process."
In its statement, the service adds that its adjutant general, Maj. Gen. David S. Baldwin, created an assistance center that has helped some of its soldiers "retain $37 million dollars of original bonus payments."
The problem of improper use of military troop-level incentives isn't limited to California — but the state has emerged as a focal point because of two factors: the large size of its Guard force, and a history of overpayments.
A scandal over the California Guard's use of bonus money was first unearthed in 2010, when the Sacramento Bee reported that its incentive program had misspent as much as $100 million.
The program's one-time leader, former master sergeant Toni Jaffe, was later sentenced to 30 months in prison, after pleading guilty to making $15 million in false claims.
When it was first discovered, that scandal was deemed "war profiteering" and was said to have benefited Guard members who hadn't logged any combat duty; high-ranking officers were mentioned. But in the years since, lower-ranking service members have complained about garnished checks and a prolonged review process, saying they've done nothing wrong.
Revelations about fraud and mismanagement in the Pentagon's retention program emerged after the program's budget swelled between 2000 and 2008 — when the Defense Department went from spending $891 million for selective reenlistment bonuses to spending $1.4 billion on them, according to a 2010 research paper by the RAND defense institute. By the end of that period, the military was also spending $625 million yearly to pay enlistment bonuses.
Hopefully Congress will Spike Lee. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67574 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:54 pm Post subject:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Legacy wrote:
The government overpaid these people. Looks like they just want to collect what was unintentionally/accidentally given.
Open a "go fund me" and the American citizens will take care of them.
It wasn't accidently, it was fraud. Fraud by the California National Guard. Make them pay for it.
The California National Guard or a few individuals? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
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Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
