Pentagon Forcing Ex-Soldiers to Repay Enlistment Bonuses
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Aussiesuede
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:00 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Legacy wrote:
The government overpaid these people. Looks like they just want to collect what was unintentionally/accidentally given.

Open a "go fund me" and the American citizens will take care of them.


It wasn't accidently, it was fraud. Fraud by the California National Guard. Make them pay for it.

The California National Guard or a few individuals?


Technically by the California National Guard. But truth be told, they were under immense pressure by the Pentagon to find bodies to ship to Iraq and Afganistan for the Rumsfeld-Cheney cockup.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:59 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
jodeke wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Legacy wrote:
The government overpaid these people. Looks like they just want to collect what was unintentionally/accidentally given.

Open a "go fund me" and the American citizens will take care of them.


It wasn't accidently, it was fraud. Fraud by the California National Guard. Make them pay for it.

The California National Guard or a few individuals?


Technically by the California National Guard. But truth be told, they were under immense pressure by the Pentagon to find bodies to ship to Iraq and Afganistan for the Rumsfeld-Cheney cockup.


and Pres bush and Cheney stole billions from social security to fund the iraq war.. will they have debt collectors come after them?
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:14 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
So, were the soldiers promised X and given X+Y and the Pentagon wants Y back? If so, then that is sad but I have to side with the Pentagon.

But, if soldiers were promised X by recruits and given X, then, I'm not even sure the Pentagon can legally take it back can they?

It's like, if a car salesman wants to give me a car for a price that is below cost, the car company would fire the salesman, not come after me.

But if I agreed to pay $30K for the car, only paid $27K and left the lot, they can rightfully come after me for the $3K.


You must be joking....
We have a country that is willing to bail out the banks to the tune of $700 billion dollars.
But we can't figure out a way to fix an error of 22 million? They are going to force these serviceman and servicewomen to pay back that money given to them thru no fault of their own. The money that was given to them is long gone, so whatever money they will attempt to recover will probably put them in financial trouble. Don't forget military service pays peanuts. It is not something you do because it has good pay. This is a Congress that passes budgets to the tune of trillions of dollars per year. I expect them to fix this problem and if they aren't well that just shows how much they care about vets after they are done with them.
I also think that such a analogy is disingenuous considering military service is paid in blood, not to mention a lot of people who give their time to the military never end up the same afterwards, for example PTSD, etc...


Don't get me wrong. I feel bad either way. But there would be a difference between being promised $10K and accepting a check for $12K, and being promised a check for $10K and getting $10K. If the recruiters lied, the soldiers shouldnt have to return a single penny.


Well,if you read the article, it says the California National Guard were the ones that screwed up. BTW, I think that part where they supposedly lost his contract and then forcing him to repay 20k was a terrible way to screw him over.


I read it. It just said they overpaid them. It didn't say if it the overpayment was fraudulent or unintentional. Sucks either way but there is a distinction.

Fraudulent would be the recruiters promising X and giving X even if they weren't supposed to. Unintentional would be being promised X and given X+Y where the Y is the portion accidentally given. It's like if a bank accidentally gives you extra monies to your account they have every right to get it back.

But it seems like recruits were promising more than they should have, in which case, they should fire the recruiters and not punish the soldiers.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:21 pm    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
jodeke wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Legacy wrote:
The government overpaid these people. Looks like they just want to collect what was unintentionally/accidentally given.

Open a "go fund me" and the American citizens will take care of them.


It wasn't accidently, it was fraud. Fraud by the California National Guard. Make them pay for it.

The California National Guard or a few individuals?


Technically by the California National Guard. But truth be told, they were under immense pressure by the Pentagon to find bodies to ship to Iraq and Afganistan for the Rumsfeld-Cheney cockup.


and Pres bush and Cheney stole billions from social security to fund the iraq war.. will they have debt collectors come after them?


How do you think Bill Clinton was able to run a surplus? The social security fund has been the slush fund for presidents and Congress to get their hands on cash for a long time. Of course this is patently against the rules set up by the social security act itself. These jackals made an end run around that by writing a massive "special" T-Bill that is essentially an IOU to the fund from the US government. Guess who is on the hook for that? The same sorry saps that got to pay in to the fund in the first place. Yep boys and girls, that be you. Without the looting of the system there would be no problem with social security other than the fact that if the money was invested properly payoffs should be much higher.
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Fan0Bynum17
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:57 pm    Post subject:

Whether they should've done it or not, they were representatives of the government and they made a contract, so the government should have to honor it. They can punish the people who overpaid them, take their money, whatever, but the soldiers didn't do anything wrong, they were offered a legal deal to the best of their knowledge and agreed to it. They likely made a significant life decision based on that number, taking that away from them for a job that can mean grievous injury or death, is beyond wrong. The lack of respect the government has for the people that go out there and be their pawns in their power games is absurd. They exploit these people, and yes, they do agree to it and likely shouldn't, but they do exploit them and manipulate them.
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Aussiesuede
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:45 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Days after a news organization reported the Defense Department is forcing National Guardsmen from California to pay back bonuses received in error, lawmakers and advocates are calling on officials to forgive their debt.

Rep. Julia Brownley, a Democrat from the state, is among a growing number of lawmakers calling for the Pentagon to stop seeking repayment of enlistment bonuses from thousands of California National Guardsmen and veterans.

"I am outraged that our servicemembers and veterans are being asked to repay bonuses and benefits promised to them when they answered the call to serve our nation," she said in a statement Monday. "I intend to introduce legislation as soon as Congress returns to waive repayment, and will work with my colleagues to ensure a full accounting of how this mismanagement occurred."

Rep. Duncan Hunter, a Republican from the state and a former Marine who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, called the repayment policy "boneheaded."

"It remains my firm belief that even the simple request of asking soldiers to repay money contingent on reenlistment is disgraceful and insulting," Hunter said in a letter to Defense Secretary Ashton Carter.

"In fact, I find it difficult to believe that either you or your leadership team was aware that such a boneheaded decision was made to demand repayment -- and I ask that you utilize your authority to influence a solution, including a possible legislative fix if determined necessary, that's in the best interest of the individuals and families impacted," he added.

More than 10,000 veterans have been required to pay back bonuses of as much as $15,000 or face such penalties as interest charges and tax liens, according to an article published Saturday by David Cloud, a reporter for The Los Angeles Times.

Like other branches of service, the Guard used enlistment bonuses to entice more people to enter the ranks a decade ago during the height of the U.S.-led wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

California National Guard officials were later found guilty of mismanaging the program. In 2014, eight current or former members were indicted on federal charges for fraudulently obtaining recruiting referral bonuses, The Associated Press reported.

The Pentagon is looking to speed up the process for granting waivers to the estimated 10,500 service members, mostly from the California National Guard, who received a combined total of about $22 million in improperly awarded bonuses, according to a statement from Navy Capt. Jeff Davis, a Pentagon spokesman.

But under current law and regulations, the department isn't authorized to grant a blanket waiver, so individuals still have to petition the Defense Office of Hearings and Appeals to have a debt waived, Davis said.

"We have the authority to waive individual payments on a one-by-one basis," he said. "We do not have the authority to waive these things writ large."


Bi-Partisan Support for Finding a solution to this Mess
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:40 pm    Post subject:

Leading story on google news

this is embarrassing to our whole nation

what kind of idiot imagined this would be acceptable?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:09 am    Post subject:

Put it this way, other than student loans, not even collection agencies can come after you for debts that are 7 years or older. The government trying to collect on an error that was made a decade ago on their end including interest is just wrong.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:45 am    Post subject:

Good news...

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/26/1587062/-Pentagon-ordered-to-stop-forcing-veterans-to-repay-bonuses?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:53 am    Post subject:

Dorray wrote:
Good news...

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/26/1587062/-Pentagon-ordered-to-stop-forcing-veterans-to-repay-bonuses?


Quote:
President Barack Obama has told the Defense Department to expedite its review of nearly 10,000 California National Guard soldiers who have been ordered to repay enlistment bonuses improperly given a decade ago, but he is not backing growing calls for Congress to waive the debts, the White House said Tuesday.


WTF, Prez?

In addition to waiving the debts, they need to pay back the service members who already repaid or had wages garnished..
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:26 am    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Leading story on google news

this is embarrassing to our whole nation

what kind of idiot imagined this would be acceptable?


That is our military intelligence on display
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:55 am    Post subject:

Obama tells Pentagon to speed up review of California Guard enlistment bonuses

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Quote:
The comments by White House spokesman Josh Earnest suggest the administration is running into legal and policy roadblocks as it struggles to handle a public relations headache for the Pentagon, the National Guard and members of Congress who were caught off guard by the scope of the problem.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:25 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Defense Secretary Ash Carter has suspended collections and ordered a review of the process that's forcing members of the California National Guard to repay enlistment bonuses that may have been paid improperly.

Quote:
"First, I have ordered the Defense Finance and Accounting Service to suspend all efforts to collect reimbursement from affected California National Guard members, effective as soon as is practical," Carter said. "This suspension will continue until I am satisfied that our process is working effectively."


Carter also directed a Pentagon team to study the issue and establish a new process by the beginning of the new year to resolve the cases quickly and equitably.

"The objective will be to complete the decision-making process on all cases as soon as possible — and no later than July 1, 2017,"

Carter's decision to suspend the forced repayments drew mostly praise, though many of the most vocal critics of the Pentagon's actions indicated Congress may still act to make whole individuals who already paid back their bonuses.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:52 am    Post subject:

Officials say Congress knew 2 years ago that soldiers were mistakenly paid huge bonuses they would have to pay back later
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:15 am    Post subject:

Tark the Shark wrote:
Officials say Congress knew 2 years ago that soldiers were mistakenly paid huge bonuses they would have to pay back later


Quote:
"I opened the letter and it said I owe them $20,000 and I have 30 days to pay them back."



Can't wait til they accidentally send some of these to soldiers who died accepting that (bleep) bonus

If I was a soldier who received some letter telling me to payback Exxon, MOBIL, Chevron et al for their war they paid me to join.. I really do not know if I would stay sane.. since asking a soldier to repay his enlistment bonus IS THE MOST INSANE THING I EVER HEARD OF FROM THE
United States of America

Great Nation???

I can't even imagine corporate america trying to ask someone to repay a bonus they were overpaid 10 years ago.. wtf..

so humiliating that Halliburton and BlackWater Mercenaries probably get a paycheck every month that is twice what the DoD is trying to recover from our Citizen Military..

I don't like the way our soldier are used and now they try to ROB them too
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:40 am    Post subject:

https://www.google.com/search?q=blackwater+mercenary+pay
Quote:
According to the Washington Post, the average salary for a Blackwater employee in 2004 was $600 per day. In comparison, General Petraeus made $493 per day as the top U.S. military commander in Iraq.


Quote:
Houston-based energy-focused engineering and construction firm KBR, Inc. (NYSE:KBR), which was spun off from its parent, oilfield services provider Halliburton Co. (NYSE:HAL), in 2007.

The company was given $39.5 billion in Iraq-related contracts over the past decade, with many of the deals given without any bidding from competing firms, such as a $568-million contract renewal in 2010 to provide housing, meals, water and bathroom services to soldiers, a deal that led to a Justice Department lawsuit over alleged kickbacks, as reported by Bloomberg.
http://www.ibtimes.com/winner-most-iraq-war-contracts-kbr-395-billion-decade-1135905
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