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rwongega
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Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Location: UCLA -> NY
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 Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/18992859/los-angeles-dodgers-corey-seager-leads-new-generation-shortstops |
What a find by Logan White. Wish we could have him back. I'd dump this FO in a second to get him back as our scouting director. Then again, I'd dump this FO for a cheeseburger. |
White made so many great drafting decisions. He really was a big loss. The worst part is he's in San Diego now. |
Clayton Kershaw (who alone is enough for a scouting director to hang his hat on), Corey Seager, Matt Kemp, Julio Urias, Joc Pederson, Dee Gordon, Russell Martin, Jonathan Broxton, Chad Billingsley, Ross Stripling. Hell even the guys he drafted and the FO at the time was too stingy or unable to sign (David Price, Paul Goldschmidt, Mark Melancon, Jordy Mercer, Kevin Gausman). And this is done with the Dodgers mostly drafting in the teens-low 20's compared to Tampa which was perennially in the top 10. Friedman drafted Price #1 overall. We saw Price's potential way before that 3 years earlier in the 19th round.
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Cutheon
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Joined: 10 Jul 2009
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Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| rwongega wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/18992859/los-angeles-dodgers-corey-seager-leads-new-generation-shortstops |
What a find by Logan White. Wish we could have him back. I'd dump this FO in a second to get him back as our scouting director. Then again, I'd dump this FO for a cheeseburger. |
White made so many great drafting decisions. He really was a big loss. The worst part is he's in San Diego now. |
Clayton Kershaw (who alone is enough for a scouting director to hang his hat on), Corey Seager, Matt Kemp, Julio Urias, Joc Pederson, Dee Gordon, Russell Martin, Jonathan Broxton, Chad Billingsley, Ross Stripling. Hell even the guys he drafted and the FO at the time was too stingy or unable to sign (David Price, Paul Goldschmidt, Mark Melancon, Jordy Mercer, Kevin Gausman). And this is done with the Dodgers mostly drafting in the teens-low 20's compared to Tampa which was perennially in the top 10. Friedman drafted Price #1 overall. We saw Price's potential way before that 3 years earlier in the 19th round. |
Jesus.....  |
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DuncanIdaho
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 17249
Location: In a no-ship
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| rwongega wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/18992859/los-angeles-dodgers-corey-seager-leads-new-generation-shortstops |
What a find by Logan White. Wish we could have him back. I'd dump this FO in a second to get him back as our scouting director. Then again, I'd dump this FO for a cheeseburger. |
White made so many great drafting decisions. He really was a big loss. The worst part is he's in San Diego now. |
Clayton Kershaw (who alone is enough for a scouting director to hang his hat on), Corey Seager, Matt Kemp, Julio Urias, Joc Pederson, Dee Gordon, Russell Martin, Jonathan Broxton, Chad Billingsley, Ross Stripling. Hell even the guys he drafted and the FO at the time was too stingy or unable to sign (David Price, Paul Goldschmidt, Mark Melancon, Jordy Mercer, Kevin Gausman). And this is done with the Dodgers mostly drafting in the teens-low 20's compared to Tampa which was perennially in the top 10. Friedman drafted Price #1 overall. We saw Price's potential way before that 3 years earlier in the 19th round. |
Bolded for effect. It's easy to draft in the first round when you're picking in the top 10 (and even then, there are busts), but White consistently drafted very well later in the first round. It's a shame we wouldn't promote him up to keep him. |
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Big news...
Ryu has made the starting rotation. Based on what I've seen, I think it's the right call. His velocity looks good. It's a massive if, but if he is close to the guy we saw 3 years ago, it's a massive boost to this team.
The rotation down the stretch could be Kershaw/Hill/Maeda/Urias/Ryu. |
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LAkers 4 Life
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 14629
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | It's easy to draft in the first round when you're picking in the top 10 (and even then, there are busts), but White consistently drafted very well later in the first round. It's a shame we wouldn't promote him up to keep him. |
I've wondered if Logan White really wants to be the GM. He's had a few interviews before, right? And the only reason he's in SD is because of familiarity with the front office as one of them is his old mentor. And his duties don't even include the draft, which is odd. Although in LA he started to be given more responsibilities like international scouting.
Sure, White had a few misses like most people, but overall he greatly enhanced the drafting of the Dodgers. The previous regimes did a piss poor job with the farm system near the end. The current front office seems to be developing players well, but it remains to be seen about the drafting, although indications are they've done a decent job so far. The trades and free agent signings have been hot garbage though. Not to mention the international signings outside of Alvarez. I've already gone through the list. 
I'm hoping that some of the high-priced veterans show enough to get dumped. Dodgers can use all of their financial might on key free agents. Plus, there's still Shohei Ohtani that they can throw all of their money towards. |
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LAkers 4 Life
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | Big news...
Ryu has made the starting rotation. Based on what I've seen, I think it's the right call. His velocity looks good. It's a massive if, but if he is close to the guy we saw 3 years ago, it's a massive boost to this team.
The rotation down the stretch could be Kershaw/Hill/Maeda/Urias/Ryu. |
Even bigger news, Kazmir's fastball has touched 87 now!  |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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For you, rwongega
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Snipes
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | For you, rwongega
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Great read. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Snipes wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | For you, rwongega
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Great read. |
Yeah I appreciated the peek in the second half of the article into some of the inner workings of the front office. |
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oasisdude77
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | For you, rwongega
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| Quote: | | On a lark, Zaidi had included in his resume his love of 1990s Britpop. Beane opened the interview on that, and they bonded over the shambolic genius of Oasis. |
That is freakin' awesome! Love this guy even more now!
Great article, btw |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | Big news...
Ryu has made the starting rotation. Based on what I've seen, I think it's the right call. His velocity looks good. It's a massive if, but if he is close to the guy we saw 3 years ago, it's a massive boost to this team.
The rotation down the stretch could be Kershaw/Hill/Maeda/Urias/Ryu. |
Healthy Ryu is a superb #3, adequate #2. Huge if he's back.
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rwongega
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Tonights Spring Training game is on KCOP Channel 13 for those in the LA area. |
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Snipes
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| rwongega wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | For you, rwongega
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Beane can have him back as well as McCarthy, Kazmir, and Hill. Just give us comparable non ex-A's players from a third party team and I'm good. |
Considering we take a nose dive every year in talent..it's pretty impressive that we are able to compete. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:58 am Post subject: |
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^^
On that ex-A's train, at least Rich Hill is different from the rest in that he is actually a difference-making, plus pitcher when healthy. McCarthy is at best a #3-4 starter even when he's perfectly healthy (for those rare stretches), and ditto Kazmir. (It was obvious to me that Kazmir was taking advantage of the pitching confines of Oakland and not having to pitch for a contender, then when he got traded to Houston, his fortunes plummeted and it was no surprise to me. We gave him a 3-year deal anyway. But I digress.) At least Hill really is a #2 starter when healthy. With all the depth that the Dodgers have, I think they can get through a regular season OK. So the key is having Hill healthy for the stretch run and postseason. I don't think they care how many innings he pitches, as long as he's a big part of their pennant drive. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| #4-5 pitchers these days make like $15mm/avg unless they're on rookie contracts so I can't really blame the FO for throwing as many chances at the wall to see what sticks. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | #4-5 pitchers these days make like $15mm/avg unless they're on rookie contracts so I can't really blame the FO for throwing as many chances at the wall to see what sticks. |
Before last season, they signed Kazmir for $16MM a year and gave Brett Anderson the $15MM QO.
Johnny Cueto signed for $130MM over 6 years, or an average annual value of $21.7MM. He signed with our most direct competition in the division, and he's an ace. And he was going into last season with outstanding recent performance.
There is no financial reason whatsoever that we couldn't have gone down the stretch this season with a rotation of Kershaw/Cueto/Maeda/Urias/Ryu. We wouldn't have needed to trade for/sign Hill, and that means we could've retained Cotton and Montas and Holmes. And Cotton is going to be really good; he could've eventually been in the rotation, basically as soon as Ryu/McCarthy/Kazmir failed. Or we could have used those prospects to help another area, such as (at the time) second base or setup relief or corner outfield.
No use crying over spilled milk, I suppose. The team is still pretty darned good, and perhaps the FO would rather have Hill on a 3-year deal than Cueto having 5 more years on his deal. Still, I'm not a fan of throwing $15MM-ish per year deals to iffy pitchers. If a guy has an iffy health history, I at least want him to have the type of upside that Rich Hill has. McCarthy and Kazmir (and Anderson last year) simply don't have that. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | #4-5 pitchers these days make like $15mm/avg unless they're on rookie contracts so I can't really blame the FO for throwing as many chances at the wall to see what sticks. |
Before last season, they signed Kazmir for $16MM a year and gave Brett Anderson the $15MM QO.
Johnny Cueto signed for $130MM over 6 years, or an average annual value of $21.7MM. He signed with our most direct competition in the division, and he's an ace. And he was going into last season with outstanding recent performance.
There is no financial reason whatsoever that we couldn't have gone down the stretch this season with a rotation of Kershaw/Cueto/Maeda/Urias/Ryu. We wouldn't have needed to trade for/sign Hill, and that means we could've retained Cotton and Montas and Holmes. And Cotton is going to be really good; he could've eventually been in the rotation, basically as soon as Ryu/McCarthy/Kazmir failed. Or we could have used those prospects to help another area, such as (at the time) second base or setup relief or corner outfield.
No use crying over spilled milk, I suppose. The team is still pretty darned good, and perhaps the FO would rather have Hill on a 3-year deal than Cueto having 5 more years on his deal. Still, I'm not a fan of throwing $15MM-ish per year deals to iffy pitchers. If a guy has an iffy health history, I at least want him to have the type of upside that Rich Hill has. McCarthy and Kazmir (and Anderson last year) simply don't have that. |
Completely agree -- we should have definitely signed Cueto. The only thing I can think that worried them is he pitched like total trash for the Royals down the stretch and into the playoffs. Could have just been the league change though, but he was definitely more worth the risk than the guys we did spend money on. |
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rwongega
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Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Location: UCLA -> NY
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | ^^
On that ex-A's train, at least Rich Hill is different from the rest in that he is actually a difference-making, plus pitcher when healthy. McCarthy is at best a #3-4 starter even when he's perfectly healthy (for those rare stretches), and ditto Kazmir. (It was obvious to me that Kazmir was taking advantage of the pitching confines of Oakland and not having to pitch for a contender, then when he got traded to Houston, his fortunes plummeted and it was no surprise to me. We gave him a 3-year deal anyway. But I digress.) At least Hill really is a #2 starter when healthy. With all the depth that the Dodgers have, I think they can get through a regular season OK. So the key is having Hill healthy for the stretch run and postseason. I don't think they care how many innings he pitches, as long as he's a big part of their pennant drive. |
The word healthy is used four times in your post. And unfortunately, with all 3 pitchers, that is not a word that describes any of them. We got lucky with Hill last year but you got better odds of getting a straight flush at Caesar's than him being healthy again during a pennant run.
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RIP Alex Gruenberg
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | #4-5 pitchers these days make like $15mm/avg unless they're on rookie contracts so I can't really blame the FO for throwing as many chances at the wall to see what sticks. |
Before last season, they signed Kazmir for $16MM a year and gave Brett Anderson the $15MM QO.
Johnny Cueto signed for $130MM over 6 years, or an average annual value of $21.7MM. He signed with our most direct competition in the division, and he's an ace. And he was going into last season with outstanding recent performance.
There is no financial reason whatsoever that we couldn't have gone down the stretch this season with a rotation of Kershaw/Cueto/Maeda/Urias/Ryu. We wouldn't have needed to trade for/sign Hill, and that means we could've retained Cotton and Montas and Holmes. And Cotton is going to be really good; he could've eventually been in the rotation, basically as soon as Ryu/McCarthy/Kazmir failed. Or we could have used those prospects to help another area, such as (at the time) second base or setup relief or corner outfield.
No use crying over spilled milk, I suppose. The team is still pretty darned good, and perhaps the FO would rather have Hill on a 3-year deal than Cueto having 5 more years on his deal. Still, I'm not a fan of throwing $15MM-ish per year deals to iffy pitchers. If a guy has an iffy health history, I at least want him to have the type of upside that Rich Hill has. McCarthy and Kazmir (and Anderson last year) simply don't have that. |
Completely agree -- we should have definitely signed Cueto. The only thing I can think that worried them is he pitched like total trash for the Royals down the stretch and into the playoffs. Could have just been the league change though, but he was definitely more worth the risk than the guys we did spend money on. |
I honestly think that both Freidman and Zaidi can't seem to detach themselves from their previous teams in terms of how they approach spending. Is it an edict from guys above them to reign in $? I don't know. All I know is that they're still trying to unearth these gems from the returned items bin. The results have been pretty damn awful. We keep having to buy multiple brands of the same item and they all continue to break. End result? We're spending MORE money and getting worse results (see Mcarthy, Wood, Kazmir, Anderson so on and so forth).
Honestly, it's almost embarrassing that literally EVERY single impact player on the roster is the result of the previous regime. Their best move thus far? Not paying Greinke the equivalent of his Diamondbacks contract? I guess?
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DuncanIdaho
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | #4-5 pitchers these days make like $15mm/avg unless they're on rookie contracts so I can't really blame the FO for throwing as many chances at the wall to see what sticks. |
Before last season, they signed Kazmir for $16MM a year and gave Brett Anderson the $15MM QO.
Johnny Cueto signed for $130MM over 6 years, or an average annual value of $21.7MM. He signed with our most direct competition in the division, and he's an ace. And he was going into last season with outstanding recent performance.
There is no financial reason whatsoever that we couldn't have gone down the stretch this season with a rotation of Kershaw/Cueto/Maeda/Urias/Ryu. We wouldn't have needed to trade for/sign Hill, and that means we could've retained Cotton and Montas and Holmes. And Cotton is going to be really good; he could've eventually been in the rotation, basically as soon as Ryu/McCarthy/Kazmir failed. Or we could have used those prospects to help another area, such as (at the time) second base or setup relief or corner outfield.
No use crying over spilled milk, I suppose. The team is still pretty darned good, and perhaps the FO would rather have Hill on a 3-year deal than Cueto having 5 more years on his deal. Still, I'm not a fan of throwing $15MM-ish per year deals to iffy pitchers. If a guy has an iffy health history, I at least want him to have the type of upside that Rich Hill has. McCarthy and Kazmir (and Anderson last year) simply don't have that. |
Completely agree -- we should have definitely signed Cueto. The only thing I can think that worried them is he pitched like total trash for the Royals down the stretch and into the playoffs. Could have just been the league change though, but he was definitely more worth the risk than the guys we did spend money on. |
I honestly think that both Freidman and Zaidi can't seem to detach themselves from their previous teams in terms of how they approach spending. Is it an edict from guys above them to reign in $? I don't know. All I know is that they're still trying to unearth these gems from the returned items bin. The results have been pretty damn awful. We keep having to buy multiple brands of the same item and they all continue to break. End result? We're spending MORE money and getting worse results (see Mcarthy, Wood, Kazmir, Anderson so on and so forth).
Honestly, it's almost embarrassing that literally EVERY single impact player on the roster is the result of the previous regime. Their best move thus far? Not paying Greinke the equivalent of his Diamondbacks contract? I guess? |
They might be saving for the super FA class that's up in a couple of years? Who knows.
Clayton is also going to opt out and we are going to have to pay him an enormous contract to stay. If they let him walk, fans will never forgive them. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| rwongega wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/18992859/los-angeles-dodgers-corey-seager-leads-new-generation-shortstops |
What a find by Logan White. Wish we could have him back. I'd dump this FO in a second to get him back as our scouting director. Then again, I'd dump this FO for a cheeseburger. |
White made so many great drafting decisions. He really was a big loss. The worst part is he's in San Diego now. |
Clayton Kershaw (who alone is enough for a scouting director to hang his hat on), Corey Seager, Matt Kemp, Julio Urias, Joc Pederson, Dee Gordon, Russell Martin, Jonathan Broxton, Chad Billingsley, Ross Stripling. Hell even the guys he drafted and the FO at the time was too stingy or unable to sign (David Price, Paul Goldschmidt, Mark Melancon, Jordy Mercer, Kevin Gausman). And this is done with the Dodgers mostly drafting in the teens-low 20's compared to Tampa which was perennially in the top 10. Friedman drafted Price #1 overall. We saw Price's potential way before that 3 years earlier in the 19th round. |
Goldschmidt...
Price....
/vomit
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/18992859/los-angeles-dodgers-corey-seager-leads-new-generation-shortstops |
What a find by Logan White. Wish we could have him back. I'd dump this FO in a second to get him back as our scouting director. Then again, I'd dump this FO for a cheeseburger. |
White made so many great drafting decisions. He really was a big loss. The worst part is he's in San Diego now. |
Clayton Kershaw (who alone is enough for a scouting director to hang his hat on), Corey Seager, Matt Kemp, Julio Urias, Joc Pederson, Dee Gordon, Russell Martin, Jonathan Broxton, Chad Billingsley, Ross Stripling. Hell even the guys he drafted and the FO at the time was too stingy or unable to sign (David Price, Paul Goldschmidt, Mark Melancon, Jordy Mercer, Kevin Gausman). And this is done with the Dodgers mostly drafting in the teens-low 20's compared to Tampa which was perennially in the top 10. Friedman drafted Price #1 overall. We saw Price's potential way before that 3 years earlier in the 19th round. |
Goldschmidt...
Price....
/vomit |
Goldy wanted to go to college, so can't really blame us for not signing him back then. |
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LAkers 4 Life
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| They could've gone over slot to sign Goldschmidt. Now we have to watch the guy rake against the Dodgers his entire career. |
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LAkers 4 Life
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | I honestly think that both Freidman and Zaidi can't seem to detach themselves from their previous teams in terms of how they approach spending. Is it an edict from guys above them to reign in $? I don't know. All I know is that they're still trying to unearth these gems from the returned items bin. The results have been pretty damn awful. We keep having to buy multiple brands of the same item and they all continue to break. End result? We're spending MORE money and getting worse results (see Mcarthy, Wood, Kazmir, Anderson so on and so forth).
Honestly, it's almost embarrassing that literally EVERY single impact player on the roster is the result of the previous regime. Their best move thus far? Not paying Greinke the equivalent of his Diamondbacks contract? I guess? |
Probably finding Andrew Toles has been their best move. Then again, they did dump Matt Kemp and got Grandal, but they still had to pay a big portion of the contract to dump him. I guess trading for Chase Utley?
They're fortunate that Logan White left them with a top farm system. Because they have spent a lot of money on players that never moved the excitement needle for anyone. All stop gaps with an injury history. I didn't mind them not giving Greinke that mega-deal, but they should have signed Cueto and Hill to replace him. The deal Cueto got was friendly to both sides, as it's really a very short term deal that Cueto can opt out after the next season that fits the Dodgers' payroll flexibility concerns and would have given the Dodgers draft compensation if he signed elsewhere. Gavin Lux better turn out to be a stud shortstop to risk the chance at that World Series title last season. Cueto was a stud in his game against the Cubs, even though they lost. I would think Kershaw, Cueto, and Hill would have been a terrific 1-2-3 L-R-L combo for them in the playoffs.
As for their international signings, so far Yadier Alvarez was worth the money as he's a top prospect. I was really hoping the Dodgers would have spent the money to get Moncada, but ultimately they were outbid. Dodgers have missed out on some opportunities, and badly missed on some free agent moves. Their trades haven't been the greatest, but overall the team is in an enviable position. They still need to bring home the hardware to justify all the moves.
Like I stated in a previous post, the 2018 offseason plan will really show the fans if this front office has what it takes. It's a huge free agent class, and that's not even mentioning the Japanese sensation Shohei Otani. It would have been even bigger if Jose Fernandez were still around. They've been parlaying their trades to create the financial flexibility for that offseason. |
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