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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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DuncanIdaho wrote: | LAkers 4 Life wrote: | DuncanIdaho wrote: | LAkers 4 Life wrote: | rwongega wrote: | LAkers 4 Life wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | Aroldis Chapman back to the Yankees, 86 million/5 years. |
Chapman is the deal that keeps on giving for the Yankees. Trade him for little, then trade him away for a lot, then just re-sign him without having to worry about compensation. All in one year. The smart sabermetric GMs salivate at that scenario. |
It seems everyone won in the Chapman roundabout. Yanks got prospects, Reds got prospects, Cubs got a WS, Chapman gets a ring and gets paid. Dodgers sabermorons got hosed. |
Yep. In hindsight they really crapped the bed in so many ways. I expected a lot better when this front office staff was built, but so far practically all of their deals have been at best meh... Toles may be the only deal that actually has worked out fantastic for them so far. OK, the only great deal they made was signing Roberts as manager. |
That was actually Stan Kasten, too. The regular FO wanted Kapler. |
I hear that from you guys, but are there any articles that really confirms it? Because from what I remember reading, Kapler was the front-runner until the Roberts interview and then the FO eventually decided to choose him. I would've expected at least one article leaking the true back story but I never heard of it except here. I don't hate this front office, but all of their moves have been uninspiring. |
I'll see if I can find where I read that specifically, but here's an article that kind of hints at that:
Quote: | LOS ANGELES -- Dodgers CEO Stan Kasten, speaking publicly for the first time about the hiring of Dave Roberts as manager, said the person whose decision "mattered the most" was president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman.
Kasten told MLB Network Radio that ownership was involved when the field was trimmed to the final two, Roberts and Gabe Kapler, after a "collaborative" search driven by Friedman and top lieutenants Farhan Zaidi and Josh Byrnes.
http://m.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article/158079926/stan-kasten-happy-with-dave-roberts-hiring/ |
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I think I had it elsewhere, might've been an LA Times column as well. Regardless, while the official statements attempt to save face for the pocket protectors, Kasten played a crucial role in getting them to not put a yes man at the helm. _________________ http://media.giphy.com/media/zNyBPu5hEFpu/giphy.gif
http://bartsblackboard.com/files/2009/11/The-Simpsons-05x18-Burns-Heir.jpg
RIP Jonathan Tang
RIP Alex Gruenberg
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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^^
I don't think there is going to be a definitive answer as to who the final call was. The press release after the fact is, of course, going to be PR spin, Kasten isn't going to publically neuter his own front office by saying it was his decision. We can read the tea leaves though... Kapler was a front office disciple and largely into the bean counting methodology they use. Roberts may not be 180 degrees from that but he's far different philosophically.
Regardless, even giving them credit for the Roberts hire is really digging deep for a hit. I feel like I keep saying it but this winter is huge year for the front office. _________________ KOBE |
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Gatekeeper Star Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2012 Posts: 5103 Location: Southland Native
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:12 am Post subject: |
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We'll see how many bargain bin closers we rotate in and out of the lineup to replace Jansen. You know, to be "fiscally responsible". _________________ KOBE |
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LAkers 4 Life Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 14629
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:38 am Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: |
We'll see how many bargain bin closers we rotate in and out of the lineup to replace Jansen. You know, to be "fiscally responsible". |
And that's the irony of the whole thing about it. The front office's job right now is to trim down the money spent from their blockbuster deals years ago to get in line with the luxury tax threshold while still remaining competitive with a deep farm system. Yet there have been a lot of moves made that have done the exact opposite of being fiscally responsible.
All 3 of the pitchers mentioned being prime examples. Not to mention they could've approached Jansen last offseason for a contract extension but decided to risk just the one year. Then there's the big money spent on prospects that were just a huge drain in Guerrero, Arruebarrena, Olivera, etc. None of these guys from what I remember were considered creme of the crop Cuban prospects. Sucks even more since the entire scenario that happened with Chapman was what I thought would happen with the Dodgers: bought low, sold high, re-sign.
At some point, the Dodgers need to stop gambling money on players with known injury histories and just pay premium dollars for premium players. Hill is gonna be the fourth straight huge money injury-risk free-agent to be signed by the Dodgers.
Last edited by LAkers 4 Life on Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nissan Star Player
Joined: 30 Dec 2006 Posts: 1031
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: |
We'll see how many bargain bin closers we rotate in and out of the lineup to replace Jansen. You know, to be "fiscally responsible". |
Blame the front office? Blame Jansen for being greedy because a closer is not worth what he is asking for. |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Nissan wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: |
We'll see how many bargain bin closers we rotate in and out of the lineup to replace Jansen. You know, to be "fiscally responsible". |
Blame the front office? Blame Jansen for being greedy because a closer is not worth what he is asking for. |
Why blame someone for trying to make more money? The Giants gave premium cash for the #3 guy. They're the one with 3 WS's of late. _________________ http://media.giphy.com/media/zNyBPu5hEFpu/giphy.gif
http://bartsblackboard.com/files/2009/11/The-Simpsons-05x18-Burns-Heir.jpg
RIP Jonathan Tang
RIP Alex Gruenberg
Free KBCB |
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Moses Star Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2008 Posts: 8262 Location: London
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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rwongega wrote: | Nissan wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: |
We'll see how many bargain bin closers we rotate in and out of the lineup to replace Jansen. You know, to be "fiscally responsible". |
Blame the front office? Blame Jansen for being greedy because a closer is not worth what he is asking for. |
Why blame someone for trying to make more money? The Giants gave premium cash for the #3 guy. They're the one with 3 WS's of late. |
Exactly. Never blame someone for taking the money. If another similar company offered you a chance to do the same job for significantly more money, and your current employer knew and wouldn't match, you'd bounce, he we all would. Loyalty cuts both ways man, if they have a chance to match and won't, then it's the Dodgers not committing to Kenley and not the other way around. Kenley honored his contract, earned the right to be a free agent, now he's getting his. _________________ Lakers, Chargers, Dodgers, Arsenal FC.
Mamba Forever
The Marathon Continues
Still I Rise |
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Nissan Star Player
Joined: 30 Dec 2006 Posts: 1031
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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rwongega wrote: | Nissan wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: |
We'll see how many bargain bin closers we rotate in and out of the lineup to replace Jansen. You know, to be "fiscally responsible". |
Blame the front office? Blame Jansen for being greedy because a closer is not worth what he is asking for. |
Why blame someone for trying to make more money? The Giants gave premium cash for the #3 guy. They're the one with 3 WS's of late. |
He can ask for any amount he wants, but it doesn't mean he is worth it. The Giants had no choice and the team was going to overpay for a closer.
Jansen is not worth $80+ million.
So it's okay for Jansen to ask for 8 years, $150 million? |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Nissan wrote: | rwongega wrote: | Nissan wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: |
We'll see how many bargain bin closers we rotate in and out of the lineup to replace Jansen. You know, to be "fiscally responsible". |
Blame the front office? Blame Jansen for being greedy because a closer is not worth what he is asking for. |
Why blame someone for trying to make more money? The Giants gave premium cash for the #3 guy. They're the one with 3 WS's of late. |
He can ask for any amount he wants, but it doesn't mean he is worth it. The Giants had no choice and the team was going to overpay for a closer.
Jansen is not worth $80+ million.
So it's okay for Jansen to ask for 8 years, $150 million? |
What an awful leap. _________________ KOBE |
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frijolero01 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 13324
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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In baseball, loyalty and being on a team with a chance to win a WS means nothing. They go where the money is.
Complete opposite in bball. _________________ Thank you, Kobe. We love you. |
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DuncanIdaho Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17197 Location: In a no-ship
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | Nissan wrote: | rwongega wrote: | Nissan wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: |
We'll see how many bargain bin closers we rotate in and out of the lineup to replace Jansen. You know, to be "fiscally responsible". |
Blame the front office? Blame Jansen for being greedy because a closer is not worth what he is asking for. |
Why blame someone for trying to make more money? The Giants gave premium cash for the #3 guy. They're the one with 3 WS's of late. |
He can ask for any amount he wants, but it doesn't mean he is worth it. The Giants had no choice and the team was going to overpay for a closer.
Jansen is not worth $80+ million.
So it's okay for Jansen to ask for 8 years, $150 million? |
What an awful leap. |
That's what he did ask for though, but I bet it was just his agent throwing back something ridiculous because the Dodgers' initial offer wasn't close to Melancon or Chapman. |
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Nissan Star Player
Joined: 30 Dec 2006 Posts: 1031
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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DuncanIdaho wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: | Nissan wrote: | rwongega wrote: | Nissan wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: |
We'll see how many bargain bin closers we rotate in and out of the lineup to replace Jansen. You know, to be "fiscally responsible". |
Blame the front office? Blame Jansen for being greedy because a closer is not worth what he is asking for. |
Why blame someone for trying to make more money? The Giants gave premium cash for the #3 guy. They're the one with 3 WS's of late. |
He can ask for any amount he wants, but it doesn't mean he is worth it. The Giants had no choice and the team was going to overpay for a closer.
Jansen is not worth $80+ million.
So it's okay for Jansen to ask for 8 years, $150 million? |
What an awful leap. |
That's what he did ask for though, but I bet it was just his agent throwing back something ridiculous because the Dodgers' initial offer wasn't close to Melancon or Chapman. |
Make a legit counter offer instead of a BS counter offer, or use the Marlins offer as leverage against the Dodgers. |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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^^ I stand corrected, I wasn't aware of that. Um, yeah Kenley, we need you back but (bleep) that 150 noise. _________________ KOBE |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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frijolero01 wrote: | In baseball, loyalty and being on a team with a chance to win a WS means nothing. They go where the money is.
Complete opposite in bball. |
Different circumstances. No hard salary cap for baseball plus with so many factors and so few playoff opportunities, a WS contender is not as surehanded as an NBA Finals contender. Not to mention, basketball players also seek money out themselves. _________________ http://media.giphy.com/media/zNyBPu5hEFpu/giphy.gif
http://bartsblackboard.com/files/2009/11/The-Simpsons-05x18-Burns-Heir.jpg
RIP Jonathan Tang
RIP Alex Gruenberg
Free KBCB |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Nissan wrote: | rwongega wrote: | Nissan wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: |
We'll see how many bargain bin closers we rotate in and out of the lineup to replace Jansen. You know, to be "fiscally responsible". |
Blame the front office? Blame Jansen for being greedy because a closer is not worth what he is asking for. |
Why blame someone for trying to make more money? The Giants gave premium cash for the #3 guy. They're the one with 3 WS's of late. |
He can ask for any amount he wants, but it doesn't mean he is worth it. The Giants had no choice and the team was going to overpay for a closer.
Jansen is not worth $80+ million.
So it's okay for Jansen to ask for 8 years, $150 million? |
He can ask for whatever he wants. If the market will oblige, he'll get that money. If not, that's what negotiating is about. _________________ http://media.giphy.com/media/zNyBPu5hEFpu/giphy.gif
http://bartsblackboard.com/files/2009/11/The-Simpsons-05x18-Burns-Heir.jpg
RIP Jonathan Tang
RIP Alex Gruenberg
Free KBCB |
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Moses Star Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2008 Posts: 8262 Location: London
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Welcome back Kenley! 5 years and 80m per ESPN
Apparently we also have a 4 year offer on the table for JT too. _________________ Lakers, Chargers, Dodgers, Arsenal FC.
Mamba Forever
The Marathon Continues
Still I Rise |
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Gatekeeper Star Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2012 Posts: 5103 Location: Southland Native
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frijolero01 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 13324
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Yessss!!!! It's been reported that JT is close to resigning too. Good job pocket protectors! _________________ Thank you, Kobe. We love you. |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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DuncanIdaho Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17197 Location: In a no-ship
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:47 am Post subject: |
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rwongega wrote: | Moses wrote: | Welcome back Kenley! 5 years and 80m per ESPN
Apparently we also have a 4 year offer on the table for JT too. |
Chapman got 6 mil more so I guess that's fine. Re-signing him and JT is just getting back to par. We still have immense holes at SP once Hill/McCarthy/Ryu get injured again, 2B unless Utley comes back for a year, and bringing Ellis back to appease Kershaw. |
I've been seeing rumors that we have a trade for Dozier we're working on. |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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DuncanIdaho wrote: | rwongega wrote: | Moses wrote: | Welcome back Kenley! 5 years and 80m per ESPN
Apparently we also have a 4 year offer on the table for JT too. |
Chapman got 6 mil more so I guess that's fine. Re-signing him and JT is just getting back to par. We still have immense holes at SP once Hill/McCarthy/Ryu get injured again, 2B unless Utley comes back for a year, and bringing Ellis back to appease Kershaw. |
I've been seeing rumors that we have a trade for Dozier we're working on. |
I have as well but he'll come at significant cost. You're talking a 2B who hits 42 home runs in not so friendly Target Park (though they did move in the field of late) albeit not a great for average hitter. _________________ http://media.giphy.com/media/zNyBPu5hEFpu/giphy.gif
http://bartsblackboard.com/files/2009/11/The-Simpsons-05x18-Burns-Heir.jpg
RIP Jonathan Tang
RIP Alex Gruenberg
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Ellis signed with the Marlins.
I don't think we're going to make a significant move for a starting pitcher. I do think you may see a deal for a second baseman, because we need an upgrade over Utley, and the other internal options (Hernandez, etc.) aren't exactly overwhelming me.
You could also see a move for a significant reliever via trade. I also am not ruling out a trade for Braun via trade. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Turner is about to re-sign for 4 years and $64MM. |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | Turner is about to re-sign for 4 years and $64MM. |
Hell yeah. That + Kenley + Fisher getting fired = Great day in LA! _________________ KOBE |
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