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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:00 am Post subject: Obamacare |
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Certainly bad timing for Democrats with the recent reports on increase in premium. The actual details might not be as bad as the optic but 2 weeks before elections, optics are the only thing talked about.
Anyway, I've always thought the best way for US Healthcare is to go single payer or public option since I see healthcare as a right, not as a privilege but I'm not so sure it's possible anymore. It would affect all insurance industry, all Healthcare providers that deal with insurance (doctors, dentists, physical therapists, chiropractors, nurses, nurse practicioners, dieticians, optometrists, podiatrists, all other not so known providers), it would also affect industries that provides the supplies, industries that provides the transportations and much more.
Now the concept of Obamacare is a good concept, increase coverage for Americans. Both expanding coverages (quantity of people) and reducing restrictions but the problems are that these expansions of coverages aren't balanced with reduction of cost (aka reduction of profits which will run into same problems as public options above since it'll affect multiple industries) and increasing healthy paying members aka insurance paying healthy millenials.
This is why I believe that medical insurance should be legally mandated for all Americans above 27 yrs old (once not eligible under parent's) just like car insurance. The once a year penalty for not having insurance clearly doesn't bring in enough $ thus the increase in premium. Is this fair? I don't know, in a way it feels like it is but that's cause I'm not young/millenials. What do you guys think? (I don't believe in repeal and replace but to legally mandate) |
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DuncanIdaho Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17197 Location: In a no-ship
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:13 am Post subject: |
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The current system is not sustainable. Premium increases of more than 100% in some cases for 27 year-olds (Arizona) shows what's really happening. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:57 am Post subject: |
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DuncanIdaho wrote: | The current system is not sustainable. Premium increases of more than 100% in some cases for 27 year-olds (Arizona) shows what's really happening. |
That's the 'optic' only lens that I was talking about above, the problems is multiprong that leads to increase premium.
So what's to do? repealing Obamacare would go back to the previous models which has the same insurance profit margin and the 'new' people covered under Obamacare/pre-existing conditions restrictions would be covered under emergency room coverage like in past. How does this reduce cost?
Last edited by governator on Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vanexelent Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 30081
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:16 am Post subject: |
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I've been a self-employed business owner for over a decade. I have purchased private insurance since 2007. Premiums have consistently risen each year for me, with or without Obamacare. I've never had an emergency visit or any serious illness. I've had multiple insurers drop me, both before and under Obamacare, either because they left the state or no longer offer my basic policy. I was already informed that my insurer wont' be offering my current policy once again, so come Nov. 1 I'll be shopping in the marketplace yet again.
So, essentially there's been no chance in my experience with purchasing health insurance in the marketplace. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:21 am Post subject: |
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vanexelent wrote: | I've been a self-employed business owner for over a decade. I have purchased private insurance since 2007. Premiums have consistently risen each year for me, with or without Obamacare. I've never had an emergency visit or any serious illness. I've had multiple insurers drop me, both before and under Obamacare, either because they left the state or no longer offer my basic policy. I was already informed that my insurer wont' be offering my current policy once again, so come Nov. 1 I'll be shopping in the marketplace yet again.
So, essentially there's been no chance in my experience with purchasing health insurance in the marketplace. |
So for someone like yourself, do you feel that public option be best? Mandating all Americans to have insurance coverage instead of yearly penalty? Go back to all private but increasing regulations? |
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DuncanIdaho Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17197 Location: In a no-ship
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:24 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | DuncanIdaho wrote: | The current system is not sustainable. Premium increases of more than 100% in some cases for 27 year-olds (Arizona) shows what's really happening. |
That's the 'optic' only lens that I was talking about above, the problems is multiprong that leads to increase premium.
So what's to do? repealing Obamacare would go back to the previous models which has the same insurance profit margin and the 'new' people covered under Obamacare/pre-existing conditions restrictions would be covered under emergency room coverage like in past. How does this reduce cost? |
Some sort of public safety net with the ability to buy private insurance on top (Germany, Australia, etc) is probably the only realistic long-term solution. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:30 am Post subject: |
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DuncanIdaho wrote: | governator wrote: | DuncanIdaho wrote: | The current system is not sustainable. Premium increases of more than 100% in some cases for 27 year-olds (Arizona) shows what's really happening. |
That's the 'optic' only lens that I was talking about above, the problems is multiprong that leads to increase premium.
So what's to do? repealing Obamacare would go back to the previous models which has the same insurance profit margin and the 'new' people covered under Obamacare/pre-existing conditions restrictions would be covered under emergency room coverage like in past. How does this reduce cost? |
Some sort of public safety net with the ability to buy private insurance on top (Germany, Australia, etc) is probably the only realistic long-term solution. |
Sounds like public option or even single payer... probably in the end, the only sustainable choice but the profit model industries revolving around health insurance are massive. If a democratic president with democratic majority in both houses couldn't lower the profit margin, I'm not sure if it's ever gonna be possible |
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DuncanIdaho Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17197 Location: In a no-ship
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:37 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | DuncanIdaho wrote: | governator wrote: | DuncanIdaho wrote: | The current system is not sustainable. Premium increases of more than 100% in some cases for 27 year-olds (Arizona) shows what's really happening. |
That's the 'optic' only lens that I was talking about above, the problems is multiprong that leads to increase premium.
So what's to do? repealing Obamacare would go back to the previous models which has the same insurance profit margin and the 'new' people covered under Obamacare/pre-existing conditions restrictions would be covered under emergency room coverage like in past. How does this reduce cost? |
Some sort of public safety net with the ability to buy private insurance on top (Germany, Australia, etc) is probably the only realistic long-term solution. |
Sounds like public option or even single payer... probably in the end, the only sustainable choice but the profit model industries revolving around health insurance are massive. If a democratic president with democratic majority in both houses couldn't lower the profit margin, I'm not sure if it's ever gonna be possible |
That's what it is. Those countries have public options, but also private options available if someone wants extra/better coverage. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:42 am Post subject: |
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DuncanIdaho wrote: | governator wrote: | DuncanIdaho wrote: | governator wrote: | DuncanIdaho wrote: | The current system is not sustainable. Premium increases of more than 100% in some cases for 27 year-olds (Arizona) shows what's really happening. |
That's the 'optic' only lens that I was talking about above, the problems is multiprong that leads to increase premium.
So what's to do? repealing Obamacare would go back to the previous models which has the same insurance profit margin and the 'new' people covered under Obamacare/pre-existing conditions restrictions would be covered under emergency room coverage like in past. How does this reduce cost? |
Some sort of public safety net with the ability to buy private insurance on top (Germany, Australia, etc) is probably the only realistic long-term solution. |
Sounds like public option or even single payer... probably in the end, the only sustainable choice but the profit model industries revolving around health insurance are massive. If a democratic president with democratic majority in both houses couldn't lower the profit margin, I'm not sure if it's ever gonna be possible |
That's what it is. Those countries have public options, but also private options available if someone wants extra/better coverage. |
So expanding medicaid/medicare option into unsubsidized program (member pays premium) to compete with private insurance? |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:23 am Post subject: |
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I do not have Obamacare, and my premiums were stable for 3 years before it was passed, and have gone up every year since it was originated. So not only the poor who have to rely on Obamacare have been negatively affected by it. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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vanexelent Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 30081
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:49 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | I've been a self-employed business owner for over a decade. I have purchased private insurance since 2007. Premiums have consistently risen each year for me, with or without Obamacare. I've never had an emergency visit or any serious illness. I've had multiple insurers drop me, both before and under Obamacare, either because they left the state or no longer offer my basic policy. I was already informed that my insurer wont' be offering my current policy once again, so come Nov. 1 I'll be shopping in the marketplace yet again.
So, essentially there's been no chance in my experience with purchasing health insurance in the marketplace. |
So for someone like yourself, do you feel that public option be best? Mandating all Americans to have insurance coverage instead of yearly penalty? Go back to all private but increasing regulations? |
There isn't really a public option right now. "Obamacare" is just a marketplace where private insurance companies offer policies. You can then get some of it subsidized by the government. I use the ACA online market place to buy my policy, but don't take advantage of any subsidies, so there isn't any real difference to me. |
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frijolero01 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 13324
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:08 am Post subject: |
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More like Oblunder Care _________________ Thank you, Kobe. We love you. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:24 am Post subject: |
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vanexelent wrote: | governator wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | I've been a self-employed business owner for over a decade. I have purchased private insurance since 2007. Premiums have consistently risen each year for me, with or without Obamacare. I've never had an emergency visit or any serious illness. I've had multiple insurers drop me, both before and under Obamacare, either because they left the state or no longer offer my basic policy. I was already informed that my insurer wont' be offering my current policy once again, so come Nov. 1 I'll be shopping in the marketplace yet again.
So, essentially there's been no chance in my experience with purchasing health insurance in the marketplace. |
So for someone like yourself, do you feel that public option be best? Mandating all Americans to have insurance coverage instead of yearly penalty? Go back to all private but increasing regulations? |
There isn't really a public option right now. "Obamacare" is just a marketplace where private insurance companies offer policies. You can then get some of it subsidized by the government. I use the ACA online market place to buy my policy, but don't take advantage of any subsidies, so there isn't any real difference to me. |
To get cost down for people like yorself, I think outside of a public option, you have to increase revenue by all to cover for 'new' coverages (individuals and pre-existing). I only see mandate for all to have insurance that can work but I'm not sure if it's fair. |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38751
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Unsustainable.
It is the worst of both worlds, the insurance companies kept their hand in the cookie jar and premiums shot up.
Public option is and was the only solution. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:36 am Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | Unsustainable.
It is the worst of both worlds, the insurance companies kept their hand in the cookie jar and premiums shot up.
Public option is and was the only solution. |
I think in the end, it's the only sustainable option too but like I mentioned, how do you tackle the giant profit model industry that even a democratic president with democratic controlled congress (both houses) can't beat |
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vanexelent Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 30081
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:03 am Post subject: |
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A public option will become more accepted as our work force becomes more transient and fewer companies provide insurance. |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13811 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Nah.. epipen and others are FINALLY being exposed
How many more are out there |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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ContagiousInspiration wrote: | Nah.. epipen and others are FINALLY being exposed
How many more are out there |
Yeah, insulin too I think
They know nobody would do anything so they do it without consequences. The question is where is the line that makes it absolutely unacceptable to the public that change is demanded?
Bernie pushed for single payer and he can't even get majority of democrats. Republicans are still envisioning private insurances competition |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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vanexelent wrote: | A public option will become more accepted as our work force becomes more transient and fewer companies provide insurance. |
Obamacare would work much better with a public option, as well as some teeth to make caregivers take less than optimal patients. The public option is the best route to true single payer (when it is effective and enough people choose it). That's why it was cut from the original Obamacare. Because the insurers knew that. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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My co-pay saves about $12 off of a doctor's visit. Why not go to an affordable hospitalization plan where people pay for their doctor visits and the plan would cover any hospital or catastrophic costs. In theory that should drive doctor costs down, they would no longer have to employ people to deal with coding and insurance issues. Co-ops make a lot of sense, give them a big tax break to encourage them. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | My co-pay saves about $12 off of a doctor's visit. Why not go to an affordable hospitalization plan where people pay for their doctor visits and the plan would cover any hospital or catastrophic costs. In theory that should drive doctor costs down, they would no longer have to employ people to deal with coding and insurance issues. Co-ops make a lot of sense, give them a big tax break to encourage them. |
What is your copay? Mine is 15 bucks, and if I was paying cash, the visit would be 160. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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$40 because it is a specialist. The bill I get says $52. I got twice a year, so if it would save $100 a month off of my insurance payment it would be well worth paying even if it was $160. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | $40 because it is a specialist. The bill I get says $52. I got twice a year, so if it would save $100 a month off of my insurance payment it would be well worth paying even if it was $160. |
Most primary care physician self-pay visit is $100-125
Specialist physician self-pay visit is $200+ |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | $40 because it is a specialist. The bill I get says $52. I got twice a year, so if it would save $100 a month off of my insurance payment it would be well worth paying even if it was $160. |
Most primary care physician self-pay visit is $100-125
Specialist physician self-pay visit is $200+ |
Still cheaper if it will drop my premium. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13811 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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You basically have to hire Insurance Broker just to find the right plan... how (bleep) up is that
Where is Robin Hood when we need him
Question..
Which area of health care costs are the most overinflated |
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