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| Total Votes : 416 |
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LakersPimp
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2176
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 Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | nash wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Oh Nash. Would it surprise you that Magic is my all time favorite player? |
Not a bit.
It is really easy to understand why Magic is the all time favorite player of someone. By the way he is my favorite PG and almost never dunked it.
Do you really believe the athletic PG archetype is antiquated? I'm not a big fan of Westbrook, but a high skilled player with his athleticism would be insane. I believe taking it hard to the rack is part of the game, throwing a lob every now and then, things like that help and that is why I would like to pair Russell with someone able to do those things. I believe Russell would have an easier time passing from the SG spot. The problem I see pairing him and Ball is that in half court this may be also the best role for Ball. |
The whole "he has to break down his man like AI but then dunk it like WB but also have 10+apt" line of thinking is just not what today's NBA is predicated upon. WB is the absolute exception. I want smart players and if they happen to be athletic and can break people off the dribble even better (which is why I am a fan of Fultz who can represent the best of many worlds). |
Just watch the playoffs! Every team that is successful has 2 players who can manufacture points out of nothing....the teams that will lose/lost like Indiana only have 1...in PG. Boston has 1 which is why they will struggle. Chicago lost Rondo, and that will hurt them as well.
George Hill is a solid team player, but in the playoffs you need that next level iso player.
This is why GS is so feared...they have like 4 players who can score at will. Cleveland has 3-4 as well (when JRs head is on right).
I hope DLo shows this ability...because based on his performance so far, im sketchy about it...and its not saying he is a bad player, but that we need additional help. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| LakersPimp wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | nash wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Oh Nash. Would it surprise you that Magic is my all time favorite player? |
Not a bit.
It is really easy to understand why Magic is the all time favorite player of someone. By the way he is my favorite PG and almost never dunked it.
Do you really believe the athletic PG archetype is antiquated? I'm not a big fan of Westbrook, but a high skilled player with his athleticism would be insane. I believe taking it hard to the rack is part of the game, throwing a lob every now and then, things like that help and that is why I would like to pair Russell with someone able to do those things. I believe Russell would have an easier time passing from the SG spot. The problem I see pairing him and Ball is that in half court this may be also the best role for Ball. |
The whole "he has to break down his man like AI but then dunk it like WB but also have 10+apt" line of thinking is just not what today's NBA is predicated upon. WB is the absolute exception. I want smart players and if they happen to be athletic and can break people off the dribble even better (which is why I am a fan of Fultz who can represent the best of many worlds). |
Just watch the playoffs! Every team that is successful has 2 players who can manufacture points out of nothing....the teams that will lose/lost like Indiana only have 1...in PG. Boston has 1 which is why they will struggle. Chicago lost Rondo, and that will hurt them as well.
George Hill is a solid team player, but in the playoffs you need that next level iso player.
This is why GS is so feared...they have like 4 players who can score at will. Cleveland has 3-4 as well (when JRs head is on right).
I hope DLo shows this ability...because based on his performance so far, im sketchy about it...and its not saying he is a bad player, but that we need additional help. |
But my point is that Ball isn't that player either. That was a snippet from a larger discussion.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8150
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | Well, if Jeanie's post Jim-drama propaganda is to be believed, that's exactly what they did with the Cousins trade. I don't know what to think at this point, but its fair to be pessimistic I think, at the least. |
This is something that I've been thinking about. There are two instances of post-Jim propaganda that have come out (one about Cousins, the other about Millsap), where the point was "we kept Jim from trading our young talent to win more now."
It's food for thought if nothing else. |
Yup. Of course this was after the trial balloon of an accusation that he DIDN'T get Cousins. Kind if like how he and Mitch kept Jeanie in the dark but here's everything they were doing. In my experience, the truth tends to be simple, uncomplicated, even when the circumstances aren't. When you have to start parsing all the legs of the tale, you're generally getting spun. |
The idea that we're getting spun is obvious, but what I find interesting is that the way they chose to do it, presenting themselves as saving the young core. They could've run with any number of narratives but I think it's informative that's the one they chose. |
This uncertainty of the direction of the FO is a big part of the confusion. To my knowledge there was no definitive complete answer of the Cousins issue. We may never know the exact details of what was offered or what was rejected.
Another thought. Currently the new FO is benefiting from years of lottery picks to make potential moves. Kupchak had a direction. Lakers tanked, they acquired assets then as they were nearing the finish line he was replaced. We can argue about his effectiveness but he was a basketball professional that I trusted with the keys to the Kingdom.
Now, who knows? What are the goals? What are the priority objectives that Pelinka, Johnson and Jeanie will pursue this summer and moving forward? We have no clue if decisions are based on what is best for the team on the floor or in the boardroom.
We continue to discuss the draft picks and trades from a on court perspective. Is that the same position that the FO is taking? I may be a bit cynical but I continue to worry that the on court impact of moves may be secondary for this group. Only time and their decisions will change that.
Also I have to consider that my youth development vision is not the same as theirs. About half the forum disagrees with my idea, why shouldn't the Lakers FO.  |
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47580
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: |
Another thought. Currently the new FO is benefiting from years of lottery picks to make potential moves. Kupchak had a direction. Lakers tanked, they acquired assets then as they were nearing the finish line he was replaced. We can argue about his effectiveness but he was a basketball professional that I trusted with the keys to the Kingdom.
Now, who knows? What are the goals? What are the priority objectives that Pelinka, Johnson and Jeanie will pursue this summer and moving forward? We have no clue if decisions are based on what is best for the team on the floor or in the boardroom.
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Mitch unfortunately made a series of terrible decisions (some of which we are still needing to dodge) and was honestly in over his head in the new CBA.
He pretty much cratered the franchise, you can argue Jim Buss this or that but in general it is on the GM....Kupchak.
Now Pelinka and Magic have an absolute mess to clean up. I think they are waiting to see if Mitch's botching of the draft protection costs them the picks. If it does, at least clarity on that front will be here and they can act accordingly.
If we get lucky and keep the picks, it obviously provides them with more options.
To be worried about the new regime being worse after 26, 17, 21, 27 win seasons never finishing higher than 14th in the Western Conference? Seems like an unlikely thing to be worried about, it is almost impossible to be worse.
The current regime will have to also evaluate if Walton is the right coach going forward. Unlike the general sentiment here, I think the jury is very much out on him after a non-effective rookie campaign. He also needs to show major improvement next season.
I am excited about Pelinka and Magic as it was obvious Mitch Kupchak's directionless, low energy approached mixed with baffling decisions was not working and was unlikely to work any time soon.
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LakersPimp
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2176
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | nash wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Oh Nash. Would it surprise you that Magic is my all time favorite player? |
Not a bit.
It is really easy to understand why Magic is the all time favorite player of someone. By the way he is my favorite PG and almost never dunked it.
Do you really believe the athletic PG archetype is antiquated? I'm not a big fan of Westbrook, but a high skilled player with his athleticism would be insane. I believe taking it hard to the rack is part of the game, throwing a lob every now and then, things like that help and that is why I would like to pair Russell with someone able to do those things. I believe Russell would have an easier time passing from the SG spot. The problem I see pairing him and Ball is that in half court this may be also the best role for Ball. |
The whole "he has to break down his man like AI but then dunk it like WB but also have 10+apt" line of thinking is just not what today's NBA is predicated upon. WB is the absolute exception. I want smart players and if they happen to be athletic and can break people off the dribble even better (which is why I am a fan of Fultz who can represent the best of many worlds). |
Just watch the playoffs! Every team that is successful has 2 players who can manufacture points out of nothing....the teams that will lose/lost like Indiana only have 1...in PG. Boston has 1 which is why they will struggle. Chicago lost Rondo, and that will hurt them as well.
George Hill is a solid team player, but in the playoffs you need that next level iso player.
This is why GS is so feared...they have like 4 players who can score at will. Cleveland has 3-4 as well (when JRs head is on right).
I hope DLo shows this ability...because based on his performance so far, im sketchy about it...and its not saying he is a bad player, but that we need additional help. |
But my point is that Ball isn't that player either. That was a snippet from a larger discussion. |
I agree....although i would love to see the pairing...I'm not sure how well it could end up....unless ingram becomes a beast...then i would welcome that. Too many ifs though... |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8150
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: |
Another thought. Currently the new FO is benefiting from years of lottery picks to make potential moves. Kupchak had a direction. Lakers tanked, they acquired assets then as they were nearing the finish line he was replaced. We can argue about his effectiveness but he was a basketball professional that I trusted with the keys to the Kingdom.
Now, who knows? What are the goals? What are the priority objectives that Pelinka, Johnson and Jeanie will pursue this summer and moving forward? We have no clue if decisions are based on what is best for the team on the floor or in the boardroom.
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Mitch unfortunately made a series of terrible decisions (some of which we are still needing to dodge) and was honestly in over his head in the new CBA.
He pretty much cratered the franchise, you can argue Jim Buss this or that but in general it is on the GM....Kupchak.
Now Pelinka and Magic have an absolute mess to clean up. I think they are waiting to see if Mitch's botching of the draft protection costs them the picks. If it does, at least clarity on that front will be here and they can act accordingly.
If we get lucky and keep the picks, it obviously provides them with more options.
To be worried about the new regime being worse after 26, 17, 21, 27 win seasons never finishing higher than 14th in the Western Conference? Seems like an unlikely thing to be worried about, it is almost impossible to be worse.
The current regime will have to also evaluate if Walton is the right coach going forward. Unlike the general sentiment here, I think the jury is very much out on him after a non-effective rookie campaign. He also needs to show major improvement next season.
I am excited about Pelinka and Magic as it was obvious Mitch Kupchak's directionless, low energy approached mixed with baffling decisions was not working and was unlikely to work any time soon. |
We simply disagree on Kupchak's legacy and competency.
No denying there were multiple questionable decisions made. But many of them can and IMO should be placed on the dysfunctional Buss family bickering.
Many of those trade protections were made as part of the blockbuster marquee trades that most were thrilled about at the time. When Nash and Howard were added the early projections and enthusiasm was Championship level. Obviously that collapsed.
The multiple HC changes also contributed to the chaos. Awkward and arguably disastrous sales pitches to free agents by management had little to do with Kupchak. Seriously doubt he ordered the ""Stay" billboard or brought in business partners to basketball meetings.
Then the handling of Kobe mired things a bit. Giving him a huge contract. Letting him live out his Farewell Tour dreams all effected the direction and success of the Lakers. Arguably his reward for years of service but directly led to those lottery years too. I respect Kobe and what he sacrificed for 20 years but from a team rebuilding standpoint it stalled things.
I think the jury is still out on the new FO characters. Kupchak had to work from a bare cupboard. He was not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But IMO not the incompetent you seem to describe. The new FO now has assets to trade, draft, cap space and momentum to rebuild.
I truly believe the Lakers are trending upward. In part because of Kupchak's decisions and direction. Now lets see what the new FO will do with it. Do they build a solid team or squander assets to form the next Knicks fiasco. This summer will answer a lot of questions of their vision and capabilities to manage the current assets.
I am not rooting against them. Just saying they need to prove themselves much more before I share your confidence and enthusiasm for the new FO. |
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Vino24
Starting Rotation
Joined: 08 Mar 2013
Posts: 156
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| crucifixion wrote: | | Sounds like Hamidou Diallo is entering this year's draft. Not hiring an agent. Where does he fall? 15? |
Man i hope lakers can get this kid somehow. if he can get work on his shot in the nba, he has super star potential. |
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adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Vino24 wrote: | | crucifixion wrote: | | Sounds like Hamidou Diallo is entering this year's draft. Not hiring an agent. Where does he fall? 15? |
Man i hope lakers can get this kid somehow. if he can get work on his shot in the nba, he has super star potential. |
DX had him going #22 in 2018.....my guess is he will fit in a similar spot in 2017... |
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70sdude
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | nash wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
It absolutely is. The more I watch tapes of him he's an elite passer but from the traditional "SG" spot. Expecting him to break teams off the dribble and take it hard to the rack isn't his game for those who want the antiquated "athletic PG" archetype. We may have two guys in Dlo/Ball who don't take guys off the dribble. |
I don't share your concept of antiquated archetype. To tell the truth I think it is the complete opposite, I fell like you to enjoy players with a game reminiscent of the 60's. Elite athleticism is not a need, but is a huge advantage, no question about that. Rose without his athleticism is average, I believe the same is going to happen to Westbrook, but when you have players like Kobe, MJ, LeBron with great basketball skills and also great athleticism those players can flat out dominate the game. A player without physical advantage has to be fenomenal doing a lot of things, but he can still be exposed by superior athletes in playoff situation when the defenses are focused. |
Rose without athleticism is average because he isn't particularly skilled.
Pretty good chance we have our 3rd year in a row of teams getting to the Finals who have PGs whose skill sets are a lot more impressive than their athleticism. |
Maybe we picture different teams in the Finals. Hard to picture anyone beating Cleveland in the East. LeBron is gonna bull-dog his way in again.
Cleveland has two play-makers of the highest physical order who initiate action from the perimeter (Kyrie, LeBron.) I'm not going to quibble about PG labels but with guys this athletic and skilled, maybe labels don't matter much. Average NBA hoops IQ bearing shooting specialists are all one needs around them on offense. |
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adkindo
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Location: Dirty South
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70sdude
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: |
Another thought. Currently the new FO is benefiting from years of lottery picks to make potential moves. Kupchak had a direction. Lakers tanked, they acquired assets then as they were nearing the finish line he was replaced. We can argue about his effectiveness but he was a basketball professional that I trusted with the keys to the Kingdom.
Now, who knows? What are the goals? What are the priority objectives that Pelinka, Johnson and Jeanie will pursue this summer and moving forward? We have no clue if decisions are based on what is best for the team on the floor or in the boardroom.
|
Mitch unfortunately made a series of terrible decisions (some of which we are still needing to dodge) and was honestly in over his head in the new CBA.
He pretty much cratered the franchise, you can argue Jim Buss this or that but in general it is on the GM....Kupchak.
Now Pelinka and Magic have an absolute mess to clean up. I think they are waiting to see if Mitch's botching of the draft protection costs them the picks. If it does, at least clarity on that front will be here and they can act accordingly.
If we get lucky and keep the picks, it obviously provides them with more options.
To be worried about the new regime being worse after 26, 17, 21, 27 win seasons never finishing higher than 14th in the Western Conference? Seems like an unlikely thing to be worried about, it is almost impossible to be worse.
The current regime will have to also evaluate if Walton is the right coach going forward. Unlike the general sentiment here, I think the jury is very much out on him after a non-effective rookie campaign. He also needs to show major improvement next season.
I am excited about Pelinka and Magic as it was obvious Mitch Kupchak's directionless, low energy approached mixed with baffling decisions was not working and was unlikely to work any time soon. |
Obviousness. hmmm. Not seeing that.
I have a far more trouble apportioning more blame to Kupchak than to Jimbo for roster management. The player trades, roster guys leaving for deals elsewhere, draft picks - none are deals that a GM can pull the trigger on. He can only "manage" to the extent that he presents a vision to ownership, gets it approved, make a plan, line deals up and then again present them to ownership again. How do we know the scenario doesn't paint Jimbo the idiot here ? The radicalization of the last seven years' blunder rate is at worst a shared burden. |
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: |
Another thought. Currently the new FO is benefiting from years of lottery picks to make potential moves. Kupchak had a direction. Lakers tanked, they acquired assets then as they were nearing the finish line he was replaced. We can argue about his effectiveness but he was a basketball professional that I trusted with the keys to the Kingdom.
Now, who knows? What are the goals? What are the priority objectives that Pelinka, Johnson and Jeanie will pursue this summer and moving forward? We have no clue if decisions are based on what is best for the team on the floor or in the boardroom.
|
Mitch unfortunately made a series of terrible decisions (some of which we are still needing to dodge) and was honestly in over his head in the new CBA.
He pretty much cratered the franchise, you can argue Jim Buss this or that but in general it is on the GM....Kupchak.
Now Pelinka and Magic have an absolute mess to clean up. I think they are waiting to see if Mitch's botching of the draft protection costs them the picks. If it does, at least clarity on that front will be here and they can act accordingly.
If we get lucky and keep the picks, it obviously provides them with more options.
To be worried about the new regime being worse after 26, 17, 21, 27 win seasons never finishing higher than 14th in the Western Conference? Seems like an unlikely thing to be worried about, it is almost impossible to be worse.
The current regime will have to also evaluate if Walton is the right coach going forward. Unlike the general sentiment here, I think the jury is very much out on him after a non-effective rookie campaign. He also needs to show major improvement next season.
I am excited about Pelinka and Magic as it was obvious Mitch Kupchak's directionless, low energy approached mixed with baffling decisions was not working and was unlikely to work any time soon. |
We simply disagree on Kupchak's legacy and competency.
No denying there were multiple questionable decisions made. But many of them can and IMO should be placed on the dysfunctional Buss family bickering.
Many of those trade protections were made as part of the blockbuster marquee trades that most were thrilled about at the time. When Nash and Howard were added the early projections and enthusiasm was Championship level. Obviously that collapsed.
The multiple HC changes also contributed to the chaos. Awkward and arguably disastrous sales pitches to free agents by management had little to do with Kupchak. Seriously doubt he ordered the ""Stay" billboard or brought in business partners to basketball meetings.
Then the handling of Kobe mired things a bit. Giving him a huge contract. Letting him live out his Farewell Tour dreams all effected the direction and success of the Lakers. Arguably his reward for years of service but directly led to those lottery years too. I respect Kobe and what he sacrificed for 20 years but from a team rebuilding standpoint it stalled things.
I think the jury is still out on the new FO characters. Kupchak had to work from a bare cupboard. He was not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But IMO not the incompetent you seem to describe. The new FO now has assets to trade, draft, cap space and momentum to rebuild.
I truly believe the Lakers are trending upward. In part because of Kupchak's decisions and direction. Now lets see what the new FO will do with it. Do they build a solid team or squander assets to form the next Knicks fiasco. This summer will answer a lot of questions of their vision and capabilities to manage the current assets.
I am not rooting against them. Just saying they need to prove themselves much more before I share your confidence and enthusiasm for the new FO. |
Those seasons of 26, 17, 21, 27 wins were the best thing that could've happen to this franchise.
The other option was adding about 10-15 wins to those totals with better players in the short term, and we wouldn't have the young talent that we do if that happened, nor would we have been a championship contender.
There was no 56, 47, 51, 57 route. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: |
Mitch unfortunately made a series of terrible decisions (some of which we are still needing to dodge) and was honestly in over his head in the new CBA.
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That is likely one of the most inaccurate things posted here. The ink wasn't dry on the new CBA when Mitch shredded it with the CP3 trade. He not only rebuilt team but also got them out of luxury tax hell by shaving millions off the payroll. Criticize him for other moves but manipulating the CBA was a strength.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Deathstroke
Star Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2015
Posts: 2131
Location: OC
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: |
Another thought. Currently the new FO is benefiting from years of lottery picks to make potential moves. Kupchak had a direction. Lakers tanked, they acquired assets then as they were nearing the finish line he was replaced. We can argue about his effectiveness but he was a basketball professional that I trusted with the keys to the Kingdom.
Now, who knows? What are the goals? What are the priority objectives that Pelinka, Johnson and Jeanie will pursue this summer and moving forward? We have no clue if decisions are based on what is best for the team on the floor or in the boardroom.
|
Mitch unfortunately made a series of terrible decisions (some of which we are still needing to dodge) and was honestly in over his head in the new CBA.
He pretty much cratered the franchise, you can argue Jim Buss this or that but in general it is on the GM....Kupchak.
Now Pelinka and Magic have an absolute mess to clean up. I think they are waiting to see if Mitch's botching of the draft protection costs them the picks. If it does, at least clarity on that front will be here and they can act accordingly.
If we get lucky and keep the picks, it obviously provides them with more options.
To be worried about the new regime being worse after 26, 17, 21, 27 win seasons never finishing higher than 14th in the Western Conference? Seems like an unlikely thing to be worried about, it is almost impossible to be worse.
The current regime will have to also evaluate if Walton is the right coach going forward. Unlike the general sentiment here, I think the jury is very much out on him after a non-effective rookie campaign. He also needs to show major improvement next season.
I am excited about Pelinka and Magic as it was obvious Mitch Kupchak's directionless, low energy approached mixed with baffling decisions was not working and was unlikely to work any time soon. |
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iceberg01
Star Player
Joined: 15 Apr 2001
Posts: 2324
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Been out of dodge for a while, but I finally caught up. These draft threads are always pretty good, if not for the sheer entertainment value. lol... But there's a lot of good stuff in here as well.
Anyway, here's my take:
D-Lo and Ingram are the best prospects on the Lakers, whether you hate em or love em. And yeah, you take the BPA ... to a certain extent. But that "extent" is, "...to the extent they're better than the player that plays the same position as the player on your roster".
Fultz, you take no brainer. Because whether he's a 1 or a 2, he's better than D-Lo. Period. Aside from that, I think he can actually play well with D-Lo, because D-Lo's becoming an off-ball perimeter guy who can pass, but he needs an "inside" guy, or a paint scorer, to give him some room to score & operate because he's best as a catch & shoot guy. Lakers offense also badly needs more athleticism & speed. Fultz checks all those boxes. Not a problem here, so let's keep moving.
Ball, I've explained before my issues with him, and it looks like scouts are finally coming out and saying it--you just cannot have a PG that 1.) has problems creating offense for himself, and even worse 2.) is NOT good in P&R. Now, he can perhaps get better at P&R, but the lack of offense per se makes him a role player in my book, and drafting role players high in the draft is what gets GM's (and team presidents) fired. PASS. Ricky Rubio with a 3 point shot. No thanks. On to the next.
So, HERE lies the problem with this draft: this draft's supposed best players outside of Fultz are basically SF's. But Ingram is unquestionably a SF. And the Lakers are so obviously flirting with Paul George another SF (that may be able to play some SG).
Point blank, I think Ingram is better than BOTH Josh Jackson (who is older than BI, BTW), AND Tatum. So why take either and further muck up the roster?
I also believe drafting 19 year old perimeter players for defense is a recipe for disaster: Orlando drafted Oladipo #2 because they thought in part that he would be a great defender, and look what happened. Detroit thought they were getting Ron Artest part 2 in drafting Stanley Johnson. How is that working out?
Yes, we're terrible on D. But drafting a 19 year old (oops, I mean 20 year old) isn't the answer. Josh Jackson is getting overrated around these parts, and IMO, shouldn't be the pick.
The opposite holds true for Tatum: just doesn't make sense to draft ANY SF that's not CLEARLY better than Ingram. Period.
So, IMO, that leaves Smith Jr, Isaac (who hasn't really been discussed at length AT ALL on here for some reason), and Monk.
Monk's been getting some love on here & does deserve some consideration. Because of his lethal jumper & athleticism, he deserves some looking into--he truly could be a one-of-a-kind player (like Iverson, Westbrook, etc.) that defies conventional wisdom. Not necessarily saying that he should or shouldn't be the pick, but he should be looked into THOROUGHLY. I mean, when's the last time you saw an ATHLETE that could SHOOT like Monk? When's the last time you saw a SHOOTER that was THAT kind of athlete???
I don't get why people aren't giving Isaac more love. I mean, if I told you that there's a 6'11" 19 year old with a 7'1" wingspan who can finish, create off the dribble, rebound, block shots, get steals, and shot 34% from 3, would you HONESTLY say that he doesn't have the chance to be a top-3 pick?
Look at the kid's per-40 #'s: 18.3 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 1.8 stl, 2.3 blks, 1.5 3pm, 50%FG, 35% 3pt, 78%FT. And you don't draft him because.... he needs to put on weight???? He could very well be the best or 2nd best player in this draft if he just fills out & becomes a better finisher.
I'll address Smith in a separate post--I know this one's getting long. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersPimp wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | nash wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Oh Nash. Would it surprise you that Magic is my all time favorite player? |
Not a bit.
It is really easy to understand why Magic is the all time favorite player of someone. By the way he is my favorite PG and almost never dunked it.
Do you really believe the athletic PG archetype is antiquated? I'm not a big fan of Westbrook, but a high skilled player with his athleticism would be insane. I believe taking it hard to the rack is part of the game, throwing a lob every now and then, things like that help and that is why I would like to pair Russell with someone able to do those things. I believe Russell would have an easier time passing from the SG spot. The problem I see pairing him and Ball is that in half court this may be also the best role for Ball. |
The whole "he has to break down his man like AI but then dunk it like WB but also have 10+apt" line of thinking is just not what today's NBA is predicated upon. WB is the absolute exception. I want smart players and if they happen to be athletic and can break people off the dribble even better (which is why I am a fan of Fultz who can represent the best of many worlds). |
Just watch the playoffs! Every team that is successful has 2 players who can manufacture points out of nothing....the teams that will lose/lost like Indiana only have 1...in PG. Boston has 1 which is why they will struggle. Chicago lost Rondo, and that will hurt them as well.
George Hill is a solid team player, but in the playoffs you need that next level iso player.
This is why GS is so feared...they have like 4 players who can score at will. Cleveland has 3-4 as well (when JRs head is on right).
I hope DLo shows this ability...because based on his performance so far, im sketchy about it...and its not saying he is a bad player, but that we need additional help. |
That's not why GSW is so feared. They have two guys who can create offense out of nothing. Last year when they won 73 they had 1. |
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iceberg01
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Joined: 15 Apr 2001
Posts: 2324
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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As for Smith, I think people get too carried away in their criticisms of 19 year olds: ALL of these players can improve, and improve immensely. But some things, you just can't teach.
When it comes to Smith, you just can't teach that ATHLETICISM. And he also seems to have some DOG in him--he wants to kill the other guy on the court he's opposing. You won't see Smith backing down from a fight (like Lonzo did vs. Fox). And... so what if he's not CP, and "only" Tim Hardaway?? You are aware that Tim Hardaway's a HOF Finalist right???
And, as for Smith being a ball-stopper, again--he's 19. He can be coached up to move the ball. Not a legit reason to not draft a 19 year old kid. Now if you say his size is a detriment (6'1"), OK, you may have a point. But you don't NOT draft a 19 year old kid because he's a ball stopper. Teaching passing is a calling card of Luke. |
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av3773
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Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3751
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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At 3 I wouldn't be opposed to the lakers trading down to get DS jr.....if we are changing some parts around for draftees it would be interesting if the lakers could land both DS jr and Markannen I think a young core of
C - Zub
PF - Markannen
SF - BI
SG - DLo
PG - DM jr
has better overall team potential than say
C- Zub
PF - Randle
SF - BI, Jackson or Tatum (based on whom most boards have at 3)
SG - D lo
PG - clarkson |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah. Could Isaac sneak up into top 3 territory, while Ball may fall?
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av3773
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Posts: 3751
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Issac is a good prospect, but for our team I'd take Markannens 3 point shooting which I think would be huge for the lakers in the long run (having a really tall 4 who can shoot the 3 with efficiency) |
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DancingBarry
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Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40198
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| iceberg01 wrote: | | And he also seems to have some DOG in him--he wants to kill the other guy on the court he's opposing. |
...That's one of the things I always think is important in a prospect and often gets overlooked. You've got to show some of that, especially if you're a high pick. |
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44TheLogo
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Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Yeah. Could Isaac sneak up into top 3 territory, while Ball may fall? |
Easily. I can already see some FOs fall in love with a guy like Isaac based on their workout/measurables whereas Ball might fall on the basis of his workouts. Ball's impact is best seen in 5 on 5 action - does he shine in 1 on 0 or 1 on 1?
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av3773
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| That's one of the reasons I like DS jr as well, he's got a lot of fight in him |
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44TheLogo
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Joined: 21 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| iceberg01 wrote: | As for Smith, I think people get too carried away in their criticisms of 19 year olds: ALL of these players can improve, and improve immensely. But some things, you just can't teach.
When it comes to Smith, you just can't teach that ATHLETICISM. And he also seems to have some DOG in him--he wants to kill the other guy on the court he's opposing. You won't see Smith backing down from a fight (like Lonzo did vs. Fox). And... so what if he's not CP, and "only" Tim Hardaway?? You are aware that Tim Hardaway's a HOF Finalist right???
And, as for Smith being a ball-stopper, again--he's 19. He can be coached up to move the ball. Not a legit reason to not draft a 19 year old kid. Now if you say his size is a detriment (6'1"), OK, you may have a point. But you don't NOT draft a 19 year old kid because he's a ball stopper. Teaching passing is a calling card of Luke. |
how can you give DSJ credit for being a dog or having fight in him when he quit on his team? were we watching the same college basketball season?
https://twitter.com/JakePavorsky/status/830515129506787329
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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I'm leaning for the Lakers:
#1: Fultz
#2: Jackson
#3: Isaac
#4: Ball
Maybe I'm just becoming less enamored by Ball. I was certainly caught in his daze during his peak, but stepping back, he's looking more and more like a really good passing SG...a little too much DLo redux in terms of people complaining about the same issues when DLO was running point.
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