2017 Lakers Draft Discussion Thread ** DRAFT DAY** (2: Ball, 27: Kuzma, 30: Hart and 42: Bryant )
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Who you got after Fultz?
Lonzo Ball
75%
 75%  [ 315 ]
Josh Jackson
15%
 15%  [ 64 ]
Jayson Tatum
1%
 1%  [ 8 ]
De'Aaron Fox
4%
 4%  [ 20 ]
Malik Monk
1%
 1%  [ 5 ]
Jonathan Isaac
0%
 0%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 416

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BynumForThree
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
BynumForThree wrote:
You honestly can't go wrong with an athletic 6'7-6'9 swingman who can guard multiple positions. Worst case scenario you get Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (who will always have a place in today's NBA.)


I'd consider ending up with MKG as it having gone wrong.


yeah.....

Then it's pretty sad how underrated he is. He's not a franchise player but he's going to be a quality starter in the league for a long time.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
I think a lot of the concerns about Ball are assuaged if you consider him to be a SG.


I think he'd be a 2 in Luke's offense, so he'd be maximized pretty amazingly.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject:

BynumForThree wrote:
MJST wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
BynumForThree wrote:
You honestly can't go wrong with an athletic 6'7-6'9 swingman who can guard multiple positions. Worst case scenario you get Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (who will always have a place in today's NBA.)


I'd consider ending up with MKG as it having gone wrong.


yeah.....

Then it's pretty sad how underrated he is. He's not a franchise player but he's going to be a quality starter in the league for a long time.


I don't think the gap between him and David Nwaba is all that significant, tbh.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
I think a lot of the concerns about Ball are assuaged if you consider him to be a SG.


Right. But say he's a Laker...then you have this meta-narrative that he has to be the "PG" and all the asinine stuff we heard about DLO when he was the "PG."

Plus, I think Magic will insist on him being a "PG" and his dad will try to push him in that direction as if that mythical distinction matters.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject:

BynumForThree wrote:
MJST wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
BynumForThree wrote:
You honestly can't go wrong with an athletic 6'7-6'9 swingman who can guard multiple positions. Worst case scenario you get Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (who will always have a place in today's NBA.)


I'd consider ending up with MKG as it having gone wrong.


yeah.....

Then it's pretty sad how underrated he is. He's not a franchise player but he's going to be a quality starter in the league for a long time.


Starter, but I wouldn't use "quality" b/c he is such a liability offensively.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:27 am    Post subject:

I think if we had Ball, we'd still be moving the rock by committee, BI has shown some ability there, d lo obviously, jules, but no ones shown the level of ability to warrant dominating the ball.

I like Ball and think he would lakers entertaining when you throw him in with our current group, but I also like fultz and now even jackson for different reasons....if we get anyone of those three I'd be pretty stoked
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject:

av3773 wrote:
I think if we had Ball, we'd still be moving the rock by committee, BI has shown some ability there, d lo obviously, jules, but no ones shown the level of ability to warrant dominating the ball.

I like Ball and think he would lakers entertaining when you throw him in with our current group, but I also like fultz and now even jackson for different reasons....if we get anyone of those three I'd be pretty stoked


That's exactly the style of play that Ball fits into. If you're trying to convert him into a ball dominant PG you're missing the point of what makes him unique.
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pjiddy
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject:

It seems that, for this team, just saying someone is a point guard or shooting guard has transformative effects on a player's game, despite their being no real distinction in their style or usage. So just saying Lonzo is the PG and Russell is the SG won't necessarily bear an actual relation to what's happening on court.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
It seems that, for this team, just saying someone is a point guard or shooting guard has transformative effects on a player's game, despite their being no real distinction in their style or usage. So just saying Lonzo is the PG and Russell is the SG won't necessarily bear an actual relation to what's happening on court.


Right. I fear that Ball will be forced into something he isn't if he's on the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
I think a lot of the concerns about Ball are assuaged if you consider him to be a SG.


If someone even hinted he was not the actual PG, his dad would be on Mike and Mike in the morning, threatening to take those Ball boys and start a Big Baller Brand league that would put the NBA out of business.....out of business !

Let someone else deal with that drama.
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
It seems that, for this team, just saying someone is a point guard or shooting guard has transformative effects on a player's game, despite their being no real distinction in their style or usage. So just saying Lonzo is the PG and Russell is the SG won't necessarily bear an actual relation to what's happening on court.


Right. I fear that Ball will be forced into something he isn't if he's on the Lakers.

So call him PG and let him run SG actions
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
It seems that, for this team, just saying someone is a point guard or shooting guard has transformative effects on a player's game, despite their being no real distinction in their style or usage. So just saying Lonzo is the PG and Russell is the SG won't necessarily bear an actual relation to what's happening on court.


Right. I fear that Ball will be forced into something he isn't if he's on the Lakers.

So call him PG and let him run SG actions


But...but...that's not allowed!
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Nike, Under Armour, Adidas not interested in deal with Lonzo Ball

Quote:
Ball's father, LaVar, confirmed that the three shoe and apparel companies informed him that they were not interested in completing a deal with his son. Sources with the three companies told ESPN.com that they indeed were moving on.


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19264024/nike-armour-adidas-not-interested-deal-lonzo-ball
Hold this L, Lavar.


never heard of the 3 big brands say "we are out" on a top draft pick.

maybe he can get a deal with LA Gear, and have those flashing light shoes....or wear some Vans board shoes.


Crazy gamble. These shoe deals are safety nets in case you suck. Now he has to be the real deal.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Nike, Under Armour, Adidas not interested in deal with Lonzo Ball

Quote:
Ball's father, LaVar, confirmed that the three shoe and apparel companies informed him that they were not interested in completing a deal with his son. Sources with the three companies told ESPN.com that they indeed were moving on.


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19264024/nike-armour-adidas-not-interested-deal-lonzo-ball
Hold this L, Lavar.


never heard of the 3 big brands say "we are out" on a top draft pick.

maybe he can get a deal with LA Gear, and have those flashing light shoes....or wear some Vans board shoes.


Crazy gamble. These shoe deals are safety nets in case you suck. Now he has to be the real deal.


this is homemade prototype Lavar took to meetings....aka Big Baller One

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c0/75/82/c0758250bdd0d2b564f96b4035dbe961.jpg
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MJST
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject:

av3773 wrote:
I think if we had Ball, we'd still be moving the rock by committee, BI has shown some ability there, d lo obviously, jules, but no ones shown the level of ability to warrant dominating the ball.

I like Ball and think he would lakers entertaining when you throw him in with our current group, but I also like fultz and now even jackson for different reasons....if we get anyone of those three I'd be pretty stoked


If we had Ball at the 2 and Russell at the 1 our offense would look similar to how it did in the first half against Milwaukee when Nick Young decided he felt like passing.



Just more fluid and it wouldn't go away after halftime.

Runway8 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Nike, Under Armour, Adidas not interested in deal with Lonzo Ball

Quote:
Ball's father, LaVar, confirmed that the three shoe and apparel companies informed him that they were not interested in completing a deal with his son. Sources with the three companies told ESPN.com that they indeed were moving on.


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19264024/nike-armour-adidas-not-interested-deal-lonzo-ball
Hold this L, Lavar.


never heard of the 3 big brands say "we are out" on a top draft pick.

maybe he can get a deal with LA Gear, and have those flashing light shoes....or wear some Vans board shoes.


Crazy gamble. These shoe deals are safety nets in case you suck. Now he has to be the real deal.


interestingly enough he may not see it as a gamble, cause if he's as confident in his ability as his dad is, and he likely is, then if he's as good as he's hyped up to be, then all three of those shoe companies will come back with a bigger offer and a "what had happened was.." excuse.
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Last edited by MJST on Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
av3773 wrote:
I think if we had Ball, we'd still be moving the rock by committee, BI has shown some ability there, d lo obviously, jules, but no ones shown the level of ability to warrant dominating the ball.

I like Ball and think he would lakers entertaining when you throw him in with our current group, but I also like fultz and now even jackson for different reasons....if we get anyone of those three I'd be pretty stoked


If we had Ball at the 2 and Russell at the 1 our offense would look similar to how it did in the first half against Milwaukee when Nick Young decided he felt like passing.



Just more fluid and it wouldn't go away after halftime.


I'm sure a bunch of naysayers would complain about the lack of a "ball pounding, take it to the hole and dunk on you" PG.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:

Odom and Horry were both near 6'11 though, even in the last gen of hoops you didn't see 6'11 SFs...

If Tatum had a better body, I'd be for drafting him and giving him 20mpg at PF. But the dude's lower body is skinny, he's top heavy only 205lbs last year. Barnes was more muscular. I just can't be confident that Tatum isn't going to have Paul George's hesitancy of playing PF, the guy who you compared him to. Tatum has wider shoulders but I think they both have wing strength


I guess I'm just not phased by NBA size as much as I used to with the modern NBA. Yeah, Barnes was a stronger player, but was never thought of as a defensive player coming out of North Carolina.

Josh Jackson, I'm actually, more discouraged of, because he's been the same weight since he was 17, nevermind some of the people he spent time with last season that led to some trouble.

But all of this is predicated on the Lakers playing defense, let alone being good at it. I'm not even thinking that far ahead. The philosophy is still BPA. I'm even aware that Tatum is #4 on most guys lists except mine and Vecenie, but just believe so strongly in work ethic regardless of size limitations or athleticism, that I don't care. I didn't even care about Ingram's weight because I trusted his work ethic too.

So, for me, the worst case scenario is 2 young, hardworking PF/SF types with different skill sets and have shown the ability to pass and have some concept of team defense?

I could do a lot worse for Top 3, especially if Fultz/Ball are gone.

I'm also just not as convinced yet about Josh Jackson, which is why I'm playing a heavy emphasis on workouts and interviews.

I want to know their approach to the game, how serious they are about it, how the have a passion/love for it. Because to me, even when DLO and Randle have shown improvement over the past two years, it didn't look anywhere near as transformative as Ingram in the last month.

I want THAT guy.

I mean, we talk about Ingram working with Kobe and getting his footwork done with a cleaner, more consistent form on his shot.

I just imagine Tatum, who I think has a far better jumpshot, especially off the dribble, learning from Bryant as well. All of a sudden, I don't think we're talking about Tobias Harris or Rudy Gay at 20ppg. I think we would see a 25+ppg guy with the idea that he can still become that stud catch and shoot/lightweight playmaker too. This is why I think of Paul George touches, especially when I compare their scoring games back to back. Then, he's a stud asset on the Lakers, or, the Lakers can actually think about building around him.

The big holes in Harris' and Gay's skill set out of college was, they didn't have Tatum's elite Iso or post PPP. Straight line drives and foundation for 3pt. shooting? Sure.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
av3773 wrote:
I think if we had Ball, we'd still be moving the rock by committee, BI has shown some ability there, d lo obviously, jules, but no ones shown the level of ability to warrant dominating the ball.

I like Ball and think he would lakers entertaining when you throw him in with our current group, but I also like fultz and now even jackson for different reasons....if we get anyone of those three I'd be pretty stoked


If we had Ball at the 2 and Russell at the 1 our offense would look similar to how it did in the first half against Milwaukee when Nick Young decided he felt like passing.



Just more fluid and it wouldn't go away after halftime.

Runway8 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Nike, Under Armour, Adidas not interested in deal with Lonzo Ball

Quote:
Ball's father, LaVar, confirmed that the three shoe and apparel companies informed him that they were not interested in completing a deal with his son. Sources with the three companies told ESPN.com that they indeed were moving on.


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19264024/nike-armour-adidas-not-interested-deal-lonzo-ball
Hold this L, Lavar.


never heard of the 3 big brands say "we are out" on a top draft pick.

maybe he can get a deal with LA Gear, and have those flashing light shoes....or wear some Vans board shoes.


Crazy gamble. These shoe deals are safety nets in case you suck. Now he has to be the real deal.


interestingly enough he may not see it as a gamble, cause if he's as confident in his ability as his dad is, and he likely is, then if he's as good as he's hyped up to be, then all three of those shoe companies will come back with a bigger offer and a "what had happened was.." excuse.


yeah, ok.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
I think a lot of the concerns about Ball are assuaged if you consider him to be a SG.


The guy just can't shoot out of the drible. Bad going left, non factor going right. I would be more comfortable with him at SG with a PG in place, but I find Russell another limited player in this role. He could be a spot up shooter, I believe his long distance shooting will translate because he takes them a couple of feet behind the college three point line, but who is supposed to create a basket for us? Russell? Ingram? Julius?

I like Ball, the way he find the open player almost without touching the ball is a piece of built, but if he has the athleticism Dlo lacks, he is not craft as Dlo handling the ball around screens.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
av3773 wrote:
I think if we had Ball, we'd still be moving the rock by committee, BI has shown some ability there, d lo obviously, jules, but no ones shown the level of ability to warrant dominating the ball.

I like Ball and think he would lakers entertaining when you throw him in with our current group, but I also like fultz and now even jackson for different reasons....if we get anyone of those three I'd be pretty stoked


That's exactly the style of play that Ball fits into. If you're trying to convert him into a ball dominant PG you're missing the point of what makes him unique.


I can see Dlo, Ball and Ingram playing this way, but how do you think we can fit Julius?
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
av3773 wrote:
I think if we had Ball, we'd still be moving the rock by committee, BI has shown some ability there, d lo obviously, jules, but no ones shown the level of ability to warrant dominating the ball.

I like Ball and think he would lakers entertaining when you throw him in with our current group, but I also like fultz and now even jackson for different reasons....if we get anyone of those three I'd be pretty stoked


If we had Ball at the 2 and Russell at the 1 our offense would look similar to how it did in the first half against Milwaukee when Nick Young decided he felt like passing.



Just more fluid and it wouldn't go away after halftime.


When this game happened, I remember being really impressed and someone on LG telling me it was just the Bucks playing terrible defense in the 1st. Whoever you were, mystery poster, I tip my hat
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:00 pm    Post subject:

nash wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
av3773 wrote:
I think if we had Ball, we'd still be moving the rock by committee, BI has shown some ability there, d lo obviously, jules, but no ones shown the level of ability to warrant dominating the ball.

I like Ball and think he would lakers entertaining when you throw him in with our current group, but I also like fultz and now even jackson for different reasons....if we get anyone of those three I'd be pretty stoked


That's exactly the style of play that Ball fits into. If you're trying to convert him into a ball dominant PG you're missing the point of what makes him unique.


I can see Dlo, Ball and Ingram playing this way, but how do you think we can fit Julius?


JR can, I think Luke did a disservice to both Nance and him on emphasizing taking the open shot whether its mid-range or threes.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
I think a lot of the concerns about Ball are assuaged if you consider him to be a SG.

This. Dude is 6'6", has unlimited range and solid hops. If he just didn't pass the ball so well everyone would call him a SG. The fact that he has elite court vision gets everyone confused because they think only point guards are supposed to be able to pass like that. It's basically the problem people have with Dlo, only more extreme.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

Question is, how do you know his work ethic is more than Jackson's? Considering the improvements Jackson made in a single year, I'd assume his work ethic is pretty darn high too, as high as you think Tatum's is.


I don't, yet, but this is where player workouts and multiple interviews kick in. It's not about just interviewing Jayson Tatum, but the head coaching staff of the Team USA U19 team.

I don't make assumptions about a player's work ethic, because for some players, acquiring a skill comes easier than others, but when certain people (e.g. DX/Vecenie) speak up for it noticeably more than others, it's worth noting.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject:

DoubleClutch wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
I think a lot of the concerns about Ball are assuaged if you consider him to be a SG.

This. Dude is 6'6", has unlimited range and solid hops. If he just didn't pass the ball so well everyone would call him a SG. The fact that he has elite court vision gets everyone confused because they think only point guards are supposed to be able to pass like that. It's basically the problem people have with Dlo, only more extreme.


He has no mid range game and no PnR experience either. And how is he defensively against NBA guards?
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