Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:32 pm Post subject:
Mike@LG wrote:
rybee wrote:
Quote:
SixersLegion: Josh Jackson is required by the league to take anger management class and refrain from Alcohol use for 12 months, due to incident in Dec.
Link?!?
Also, that's why I don't have JJ over Tatum.
not league related....this is a great outcome for Jackson.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:33 pm Post subject:
adkindo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
FWIW Sam Vecencie was on Lakers Nation podcast and said he had Tatum at #2. Also said that he thinks Ingram is an "elite role player." This guy has some interesting takes for sure.
I'm mostly aligned with Vecenie and Zwicker on the draft.
have they got you taking another look at Dennis Smith Jr.? or trying to remember why we kind of dismissed him a couple months ago?
They talked me up a bit, but I still hate the intangibles. That's the kind of guy that would ruin the great chemistry on the Laker team. It isn't just when he subbed himself out or got frustrated with teammates, it's how he reacted with it, poor body language.
DSJ is such a prospect that for a potential Top 3 talent, is Top 10 in most mocks. What does that say about his character?
Same goes for Cam Oliver. Lottery talent. Not a good team guy. 2nd rounder.
But yeah, DSJ, has Top 3 talent. I just don't expect guys with those kinds of intangibles to actually fulfill their upside. Steve Francis is a great example of that. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:36 pm Post subject:
ChickenStu wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
For the record, hating on Lonzo is actually the norm outside of LG. The majority opinion on reddit and realgm is that we should take Fox and that Lonzo is a loser (their words). I'm willing to wait and see what our scouts think and what the workouts reveal before I make any permanent conclusions.
Fox
UCLA lost 5 games all season. Jesus.
It's not that. I'm more skeptical about Lonzo, only because there's never been a prospect like that, well, ever.
But the ways that UCLA lost? Lonzo didn't act as a POA and "take over" a game. He needed Holiday off the bench to be the POA, where Lonzo goes back to excelling as an off-ball SG with elite decision-making.
Problem with the Lakers is, while we want DAR off-ball, he isn't as prone to drawing a high free throw rate or attacking the basket at a high frequency, like say, Brandon Ingram.
This is why I'm so adamant about Fultz, even when I understand his weakesses. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:38 pm Post subject:
adkindo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
rybee wrote:
Quote:
SixersLegion: Josh Jackson is required by the league to take anger management class and refrain from Alcohol use for 12 months, due to incident in Dec.
Link?!?
Also, that's why I don't have JJ over Tatum.
not league related....this is a great outcome for Jackson.
Kind of don't care. For an "elder freshman", he made poor decisions. Off-court things affect work ethic/attitude, which affects play on the court. Real strong believer in that. That's why I was big on Ingram.
It's also why, I hate the "playa" Clarkson after his rookie year. He could be so much better than he is right now, it's frustrating. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:40 pm Post subject:
Chase.button07 wrote:
rybee wrote:
Quote:
SixersLegion: Josh Jackson is required by the league to take anger management class and refrain from Alcohol use for 12 months, due to incident in Dec.
Pelinka/Magic talked about getting guys with good character.
how old is jackson anyways? no idea how he will handle playing in LA @19/20years old
Good character can mean many things. I doubt that they're looking for Boy Scouts. Now, guys who will rip your head off to win on the basketball court, on the other hand...
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:41 pm Post subject:
44TheLogo wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Andre2K wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
Just had to watch a few minutes of the Semi Ojeleye video to know that he's perfect for us. We need 3-and-D players in the worst way and this guy fits that role to a tee. On top of that, it looks like he'll be able to play some 4 and easily switch onto guards defensively in PnR situations. What's not to like from a 28th pick?
His measureables for a PF, I'm big on measureables
Same here. I'd stay as far away from him as possible. Would rather have Tony Bradley who the lakers have promised to pick if he's still on the board at 28 according to some reports.
Interesting.. I haven't even seen Mr Bradley, gotta look him up.
Hey @MikeLG I was listening to a Drew Hanlen podcast(linked on his Twitter last week), and he said something about Tatum that I can't get out of my mind. He said, since he's been working with Tatum since he was 13 - he's been throwing NBA players at him for years.. It just reminded me of Kobe.
Thought it was a tidbit you'd take to.
He said they study Melo and Paul George, and model his game after those guys.
Fultz has been doing two a days with a NBA trainer (who worked with Durant, DMC, bunch of other players) since he was seven. It's no accident that all of these guys are at the top of their class.
I'm personally staying away from anyone trained by Hanlen - the rest of hanlens guys all are pretty one dimensional...Clarkson, Wiggins, lavine, beal
He teaches shot creation/Iso skills. How do you work on playmaking on an individual setting? _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:45 pm Post subject:
Mike@LG wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
rybee wrote:
Quote:
SixersLegion: Josh Jackson is required by the league to take anger management class and refrain from Alcohol use for 12 months, due to incident in Dec.
Link?!?
Also, that's why I don't have JJ over Tatum.
not league related....this is a great outcome for Jackson.
Kind of don't care. For an "elder freshman", he made poor decisions. Off-court things affect work ethic/attitude, which affects play on the court. Real strong believer in that. That's why I was big on Ingram.
It's also why, I hate the "playa" Clarkson after his rookie year. He could be so much better than he is right now, it's frustrating.
but it didn't. I guess we just disagree....I believe people, especially young people make stupid mistakes, and they should be held accountable, but I do not believe in holding those mistakes over their head once they have been held accountable. To be clear, I am referring to minor stupid things....not major crimes or causing injury to a person.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:45 pm Post subject:
babyskyhook wrote:
Hydro21 wrote:
Sam Vecencie has plenty of misses over the years . He loved Mudiay and Okafor Wasn't high Russell coming out .
Last year Dunn was ranked his 3rd best player in the class.
That's the thing. People get so worked up over the draft based on the opinions of a bunch of guys who are constantly wrong about a large percentage of any given class. And that consensus "expert opinion" has an effect on how some FOs run their draft. GMs don't want to get fired, and it's easier to justify missing on a guy who was the consensus #3 pick than it is to take a swing at a guy like Giannis. That's one of the reasons bad teams stay bad.
That's not to say all the draft gurus and GMs are idiots, just that it's really hard to get it right. Outside of Jerry West and the Spurs FO, I look at the NBA draft in the same way as the famous William Goldman quote about the movie business "Nobody knows anything."
All the people making definitive statements about this guy being great or that guy being a bust as if the word had come down from the mountain on one of Moses' tablets are hilarious.
All you have to do is go back and look at any previous draft to see just how badly the consensus opinion missed on guys. No one had Giannis in their top 10 for example. He'd be the top pick in any draft today that didn't have 19 year old Lebron or KD in it.
Going in hindsight, it would cost a GM his job if Giannis didn't turn out.
Dude wasn't even on the radar until June. It's a strategy by agents to get the hype going about their guy to boost their draft stock.
All physical tools. Played point forward on a very weak league. No jumpshot. Didn't even have a great vert. Just straight line drives, wingspan, and hands.
That's why I had him #34.
Fast forward a few years later.
Exum had elite size by position. Signs of a jumpshot. Proven play at FIBA. Legit speed over his vertical ability. Showed some advanced ball-handling. I thought it would be "Giannis-like."
Didn't turn out that way. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:48 pm Post subject:
adkindo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
rybee wrote:
Quote:
SixersLegion: Josh Jackson is required by the league to take anger management class and refrain from Alcohol use for 12 months, due to incident in Dec.
Link?!?
Also, that's why I don't have JJ over Tatum.
not league related....this is a great outcome for Jackson.
Kind of don't care. For an "elder freshman", he made poor decisions. Off-court things affect work ethic/attitude, which affects play on the court. Real strong believer in that. That's why I was big on Ingram.
It's also why, I hate the "playa" Clarkson after his rookie year. He could be so much better than he is right now, it's frustrating.
but it didn't. I guess we just disagree....I believe people, especially young people make stupid mistakes, and they should be held accountable, but I do not believe in holding those mistakes over their head once they have been held accountable. To be clear, I am referring to minor stupid things....not major crimes or causing injury to a person.
I'm so firm on professionalism and work ethic, I don't even want a small margin of a hindrance to the team.
Ingram doesn't talk much. We know he works hard. Look who had the most dramatic improvement.
Guys like Randle and Zubac were steady inclines.
DAR, has a longer road, because he's a PG, but still produces.
Tarik Black already fixed his FT shooting after he signed his contract (no surprise).
The most distracted guy on the team? I don't know man. JC is in the public eye a lot more than I'd like personally. Like, I don't want to know about any of these guys' social life. Think it affects his game? Because for the most part, he's been the same guy for 2 years.
It could be so much worse than that too. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
starting to get that feeling that we may all be sleeping a little on Dennis Smith Jr. .
He's a top 3 talent.
Kyle Lowery clone...what does he do that's elite?
Speed...nope.
Shooting...nope.
Defense...nope.
Passing...nope.
Anything...nope.
If the Lakers drafted this kid at 2 with Jackson or Ball on the board I would lose my ish.
Not even close. Completely disagree.
Kyle Lowry out of Villanova was like Derek Fisher's scouting report, except with athleticism and strength. Defensive hound. Attacks the basket. Solid decision making.
DSJ is so far ahead of that curve already as a 19 year old.
65%FG at the rim.
4.8 shots at the rim per game. Only 30% assisted.
That's elite.
That's cool...but did you see my clarification?
And how would you feel if we took him ahead of Ball, Jackson, or Fultz? Hell even Issac? _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
SixersLegion: Josh Jackson is required by the league to take anger management class and refrain from Alcohol use for 12 months, due to incident in Dec.
Link?!?
Also, that's why I don't have JJ over Tatum.
not league related....this is a great outcome for Jackson.
Kind of don't care. For an "elder freshman", he made poor decisions. Off-court things affect work ethic/attitude, which affects play on the court. Real strong believer in that. That's why I was big on Ingram.
It's also why, I hate the "playa" Clarkson after his rookie year. He could be so much better than he is right now, it's frustrating.
but it didn't. I guess we just disagree....I believe people, especially young people make stupid mistakes, and they should be held accountable, but I do not believe in holding those mistakes over their head once they have been held accountable. To be clear, I am referring to minor stupid things....not major crimes or causing injury to a person.
I'm so firm on professionalism and work ethic, I don't even want a small margin of a hindrance to the team.
Ingram doesn't talk much. We know he works hard. Look who had the most dramatic improvement.
Guys like Randle and Zubac were steady inclines.
DAR, has a longer road, because he's a PG, but still produces.
Tarik Black already fixed his FT shooting after he signed his contract (no surprise).
The most distracted guy on the team? I don't know man. JC is in the public eye a lot more than I'd like personally. Like, I don't want to know about any of these guys' social life. Think it affects his game? Because for the most part, he's been the same guy for 2 years.
It could be so much worse than that too.
100% Agree with you on this.
I thought at first that Nick was a bad influence...now I'm realizing that JC wasn't influenced but sought this out.
Not gonna hate on a young brutha living it up in LA...but your game has to improve to make all the socializing a likeable trait.
He has too much athleticism to be so horrible on D. _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:15 pm Post subject:
Quote:
And how would you feel if we took him ahead of Ball, Jackson, or Fultz? Hell even Issac?
_________________
I'd have to trust the Laker scouts that he kicked ass in his interviews and learned his lessons. His "leadership" cannot be tolerated on such a young team.
My gripe is choosing him over Fultz. He has a notch of athleticism over Fultz, but an injury history to hold him back too. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:19 pm Post subject:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
And how would you feel if we took him ahead of Ball, Jackson, or Fultz? Hell even Issac?
_________________
I'd have to trust the Laker scouts that he kicked ass in his interviews and learned his lessons. His "leadership" cannot be tolerated on such a young team.
My gripe is choosing him over Fultz. He has a notch of athleticism over Fultz, but an injury history to hold him back too.
Hypothetically, if we took someone like Fox or DSJ over Fultz, that would take me to a really dark place. If we took Ball or Jackson over Fultz, I wouldn't be happy, but at least I could find at least some justification for it.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:19 pm Post subject:
vicman wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
Why are we working out a bunch of scrubs? For summer league roster?
So they can work out in 3 x 3 or 4 x 4.
Also, covers more bases with research. What's the issue?
Remember nance wasn't even mocked. I mean when he was drafted I was like what. I mean I knew he was nance son but that was it
Yeah Nance was mid 2nd round last time I remember. No one thought of him in the 1st round except the Lakers and arguably the Spurs.
The guys that worked out today? I know Bryant and Bradley stand out. The others? After watching a bit of each, I'm not as convinced. At least I understand the interest in Kuzma.
But still, 6 players. 3 x 3s. Gives a good idea about NBA matchups (how does Thomas Bryant handle his worst enemy, face up, 3pt. shooting PFs with C length in PnR?) _________________ Resident Car Nut.
For the record, hating on Lonzo is actually the norm outside of LG. The majority opinion on reddit and realgm is that we should take Fox and that Lonzo is a loser (their words). I'm willing to wait and see what our scouts think and what the workouts reveal before I make any permanent conclusions.
Fox
UCLA lost 5 games all season. Jesus.
It's not that. I'm more skeptical about Lonzo, only because there's never been a prospect like that, well, ever.
But the ways that UCLA lost? Lonzo didn't act as a POA and "take over" a game. He needed Holiday off the bench to be the POA, where Lonzo goes back to excelling as an off-ball SG with elite decision-making.
Problem with the Lakers is, while we want DAR off-ball, he isn't as prone to drawing a high free throw rate or attacking the basket at a high frequency, like say, Brandon Ingram.
This is why I'm so adamant about Fultz, even when I understand his weakesses.
That is the problem with drafting Lonzo.
To become an elite team with Lonzo, it means both Ingram and Russell have to reach their potential and that may not even be enough.
If Fultz, Jackson or Tatum become go to scorers, we aren't as dependent on the development of Ingram and Russell to still have an elite team.
reinforcing what i said earlier regarding using a player's best season in college as representative of their upside rather than their most recent.
and now i want to go watch tape of sterling brown who is apparently the little brother of shannon brown!
By the same token, their worst season (outside of off the court circumstances) should be taken as evidence for their floor.
i'm now wondering if there's a way to search sports reference for year to year decline in stats to identify potentially overlooked draft prospects _________________ substance over style
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:21 pm Post subject:
Justin Jackson's (UNC early workout).
Think he gets drafted high because of pedigree (Dad track and field, mom basketball), and is legit 3 and D with legit wingspan. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
little list I made? It is little because we have the 3rd pick...Seriously Jim.....you had no presence in the draft thread until a week or so ago.....we have been discussing these players for months, and now you feel you are in a place to tell people what is what about the draft? How much time have you actually spent evaluating to top 10 guys? Going out on a thick limb here and guessing a minimal amount.
we have the 2nd pick. so time spent == better evaluation? disagree
the list looses credibility when Ball is not in the top 4
Thought some of y'all that are campaigning for Lonzo would enjoy this analysis by an actual scout and D-1 Analytics specialist that has reviewed every basketball action of this player.
Wow. Thanks for that. That scout's response to the Liberty Ballers article on Lonzo was really enlightening. I like how he used Synergy data which is more accurate and upends many of the premises about Lonzo's weaknesses. They do exist but it's a lot less than people realize, and how the reasons for it are not obvious, often leading to wrong assumptions about Lonzo's game.
I didn't know he had that many PnR situations and he generally made the right read in the context of the UCLA-designed offense. That link to the Twitter thread of Lonzo's drives made me feel better, too.
How did you find that article? Does he write other stuff regularly? I love his more nuanced take on things. I like Lonzo but I've been wary about him, especially after reading that two-part Liberty Baller article, but I'm definitely more excited about him now.
Imam Shebaz (?) on SilverScreenAndRoll found it...the guy that wrote the article reminded me just how little I know about real talent assessment on the hardwood. LOL. _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
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