Ryan Ward: Next group of workouts for the Lakers include: Kadeem Allen, Jamel Artis, Sidy Djitte, J.J. Frazier, Josh Hawkinson, L.J. Peak #NBADraft 2 hours ago – via Twitter RyanWardLA
little list I made? It is little because we have the 3rd pick...Seriously Jim.....you had no presence in the draft thread until a week or so ago.....we have been discussing these players for months, and now you feel you are in a place to tell people what is what about the draft? How much time have you actually spent evaluating to top 10 guys? Going out on a thick limb here and guessing a minimal amount.
we have the 2nd pick. so time spent == better evaluation? disagree
the list looses credibility when Ball is not in the top 4
Thought some of y'all that are campaigning for Lonzo would enjoy this analysis by an actual scout and D-1 Analytics specialist that has reviewed every basketball action of this player.
Wow. Thanks for that. That scout's response to the Liberty Ballers article on Lonzo was really enlightening. I like how he used Synergy data which is more accurate and upends many of the premises about Lonzo's weaknesses. They do exist but it's a lot less than people realize, and how the reasons for it are not obvious, often leading to wrong assumptions about Lonzo's game.
I didn't know he had that many PnR situations and he generally made the right read in the context of the UCLA-designed offense. That link to the Twitter thread of Lonzo's drives made me feel better, too.
How did you find that article? Does he write other stuff regularly? I love his more nuanced take on things. I like Lonzo but I've been wary about him, especially after reading that two-part Liberty Baller article, but I'm definitely more excited about him now.
Imam Shebaz (?) on SilverScreenAndRoll found it...the guy that wrote the article reminded me just how little I know about real talent assessment on the hardwood. LOL.
i already replied about this...it was created by Cranjis. twitter.com/t1m_NBA _________________ substance over style
little list I made? It is little because we have the 3rd pick...Seriously Jim.....you had no presence in the draft thread until a week or so ago.....we have been discussing these players for months, and now you feel you are in a place to tell people what is what about the draft? How much time have you actually spent evaluating to top 10 guys? Going out on a thick limb here and guessing a minimal amount.
we have the 2nd pick. so time spent == better evaluation? disagree
the list looses credibility when Ball is not in the top 4
Thought some of y'all that are campaigning for Lonzo would enjoy this analysis by an actual scout and D-1 Analytics specialist that has reviewed every basketball action of this player.
Wow. Thanks for that. That scout's response to the Liberty Ballers article on Lonzo was really enlightening. I like how he used Synergy data which is more accurate and upends many of the premises about Lonzo's weaknesses. They do exist but it's a lot less than people realize, and how the reasons for it are not obvious, often leading to wrong assumptions about Lonzo's game.
I didn't know he had that many PnR situations and he generally made the right read in the context of the UCLA-designed offense. That link to the Twitter thread of Lonzo's drives made me feel better, too.
How did you find that article? Does he write other stuff regularly? I love his more nuanced take on things. I like Lonzo but I've been wary about him, especially after reading that two-part Liberty Baller article, but I'm definitely more excited about him now.
As others have pointed out (fiendishoc in particular) though, Cranjis somewhat glosses over the fact that Lonzo lacks some of the fundamental skills needed to be effective in PnR in the NBA, namely the ability to pull up to punish bigs in either soft hedges, or to punish bigs on full switches beyond his standard step back 3s. E.G., if he's getting a pick going to his right and the defending big falls back into a soft hedge, is he able to pull up going to the right with his awkward low, left sided release, where it's easy to be contested by the trailing guard?
basically if i'm gameplanning, i say the following. if he gets a pick to his right, soft hedge and let the trailing guard block/contest the shot. If he gets a pick to his left, just full switch and tell the big to sit on a stepback three.
But he definitely forces the opposing coach to adjust...which means in Luke's offense that plays right into our hands for counters as well.
The worst thing would be to draft a kid that doesn't really force the other team to change what they do.
And Cranjis reports that he has looked at each play for every draftable player...and come to the personal determination that Ball is the best player available...his work speaks for itself and is more knowledgeable than pretty much every writer like the LB's who are shaping a narrative and finding facts to support them rather than looking at facts and allowing them to shape the narrative.
Plus the LB writer came out on twitter and agreed with Cranjis' pov saying that he wouldn't have written the article had he had access to all the info Cranjis had.
So let that sink in too...dude, through his intelligent rebuttal, actually got the author to withdraw his opinion on the subject.
Can you name the last time you've ever seen that for literally anything? _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
little list I made? It is little because we have the 3rd pick...Seriously Jim.....you had no presence in the draft thread until a week or so ago.....we have been discussing these players for months, and now you feel you are in a place to tell people what is what about the draft? How much time have you actually spent evaluating to top 10 guys? Going out on a thick limb here and guessing a minimal amount.
we have the 2nd pick. so time spent == better evaluation? disagree
the list looses credibility when Ball is not in the top 4
Thought some of y'all that are campaigning for Lonzo would enjoy this analysis by an actual scout and D-1 Analytics specialist that has reviewed every basketball action of this player.
Wow. Thanks for that. That scout's response to the Liberty Ballers article on Lonzo was really enlightening. I like how he used Synergy data which is more accurate and upends many of the premises about Lonzo's weaknesses. They do exist but it's a lot less than people realize, and how the reasons for it are not obvious, often leading to wrong assumptions about Lonzo's game.
I didn't know he had that many PnR situations and he generally made the right read in the context of the UCLA-designed offense. That link to the Twitter thread of Lonzo's drives made me feel better, too.
How did you find that article? Does he write other stuff regularly? I love his more nuanced take on things. I like Lonzo but I've been wary about him, especially after reading that two-part Liberty Baller article, but I'm definitely more excited about him now.
Imam Shebaz (?) on SilverScreenAndRoll found it...the guy that wrote the article reminded me just how little I know about real talent assessment on the hardwood. LOL.
i already replied about this...it was created by Cranjis. twitter.com/t1m_NBA
But it's ok if I respond to the poster that was talking directly to me right? _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
Ryan Ward: Next group of workouts for the Lakers include: Kadeem Allen, Jamel Artis, Sidy Djitte, J.J. Frazier, Josh Hawkinson, L.J. Peak #NBADraft 2 hours ago – via Twitter RyanWardLA
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:32 pm Post subject:
pio2u wrote:
Quote:
Ryan Ward: Next group of workouts for the Lakers include: Kadeem Allen, Jamel Artis, Sidy Djitte, J.J. Frazier, Josh Hawkinson, L.J. Peak #NBADraft 2 hours ago – via Twitter RyanWardLA
But it's ok if I respond to the poster that was talking directly to me right?
i'm just not sure why you're saying imam shebaz or whoever on silverscreenandroll found it when anyone who follows cranjis on twitter would have seen it directly from him
give credit to the right person. _________________ substance over style
Can you name the last time you've ever seen that for literally anything?
i mean, yes, in my professional career. maybe not for basketball, though i am confident i've at least swayed a few people on this board in the past. _________________ substance over style
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:40 pm Post subject:
^ I was in the middle of that discussion on Twitter and the funny thing is that all three of us agreed with Whittington's basic premise (What Marc retracted was the stuff about the assist rate, not his entire article). The difference is the degree with which we think those weaknesses matter. Tim has him #1, I have him top 3 and Marc I think has him top 5. We all agreed that Lonzo profiled better as an off guard in the half court, given his strengths and weaknesses.
As for your comment about game plan, that's not how it works. Capitalizing on a weakness is not "forcing the opposing coach to adjust" any more than sagging defenders off Roberson because he can't shoot is.
so without getting into too much detail.. we can have 17 players under contract? does that mean 2 players can go to the G-league if we do lets say "1-2yr developmental contracts" to see if they get better? _________________ speak it into existence
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:43 pm Post subject:
fiendishoc wrote:
^ I was in the middle of that discussion on Twitter and the funny thing is that all three of us agreed with Whittington's basic premise (What Marc retracted was the stuff about the assist rate, not his entire article). The difference is the degree with which we think those weaknesses matter. Tim has him #1, I have him top 3 and Marc I think has him top 5. We all agreed that Lonzo profiled better as an off guard in the half court, given his strengths and weaknesses.
As for your comment about game plan, that's not how it works. Capitalizing on a weakness is not "forcing the opposing coach to adjust" any more than sagging defenders off Roberson because he can't shoot is.
Ding. That's why I have him #2. I think people underrate Fultz's passing ability. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
^ I was in the middle of that discussion on Twitter and the funny thing is that all three of us agreed with Whittington's basic premise (What Marc retracted was the stuff about the assist rate, not his entire article). The difference is the degree with which we think those weaknesses matter. Tim has him #1, I have him top 3 and Marc I think has him top 5. We all agreed that Lonzo profiled better as an off guard in the half court, given his strengths and weaknesses.
As for your comment about game plan, that's not how it works. Capitalizing on a weakness is not "forcing the opposing coach to adjust" any more than sagging defenders off Roberson because he can't shoot is.
Ding. That's why I have him #2. I think people underrate Fultz's passing ability.
Fultz is an incredible passer. Just need to watch his FIBA games where he had actual teammates to see it. _________________ substance over style
Ryan Ward: Next group of workouts for the Lakers include: Kadeem Allen, Jamel Artis, Sidy Djitte, J.J. Frazier, Josh Hawkinson, L.J. Peak #NBADraft 2 hours ago – via Twitter RyanWardLA
Artis can shoot..
Fast trigger.
If we draft him, hopefully he ends up like Jamal Crawford.
Ryan Ward: Next group of workouts for the Lakers include: Kadeem Allen, Jamel Artis, Sidy Djitte, J.J. Frazier, Josh Hawkinson, L.J. Peak #NBADraft 2 hours ago – via Twitter RyanWardLA
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:46 pm Post subject:
44TheLogo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
^ I was in the middle of that discussion on Twitter and the funny thing is that all three of us agreed with Whittington's basic premise (What Marc retracted was the stuff about the assist rate, not his entire article). The difference is the degree with which we think those weaknesses matter. Tim has him #1, I have him top 3 and Marc I think has him top 5. We all agreed that Lonzo profiled better as an off guard in the half court, given his strengths and weaknesses.
As for your comment about game plan, that's not how it works. Capitalizing on a weakness is not "forcing the opposing coach to adjust" any more than sagging defenders off Roberson because he can't shoot is.
Ding. That's why I have him #2. I think people underrate Fultz's passing ability.
Fultz is an incredible passer. Just need to watch his FIBA games where he had actual teammates to see it.
Agreed. Personally I didn't even go that far. I just saw higher assist rate with teammates .494TS%.
Sidenote. Jamel Artis for a workout? This is the kind of undrafted pick up that ends up in the L. Don't care if he's 24. Dude is doing subtle point forward things out there while being an elite shooter.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:51 pm Post subject:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Quote:
Ryan Ward: Next group of workouts for the Lakers include: Kadeem Allen, Jamel Artis, Sidy Djitte, J.J. Frazier, Josh Hawkinson, L.J. Peak #NBADraft 2 hours ago – via Twitter RyanWardLA
Artis can shoot..
Fast trigger.
If we draft him, hopefully he ends up like Jamal Crawford.
George McCloud.
But that's the guy you want in Luke's offense. Dead eye shooter. Makes reads. Average athlete. Able to draw some fouls. Needs to get a bit stronger. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
^ I was in the middle of that discussion on Twitter and the funny thing is that all three of us agreed with Whittington's basic premise (What Marc retracted was the stuff about the assist rate, not his entire article). The difference is the degree with which we think those weaknesses matter. Tim has him #1, I have him top 3 and Marc I think has him top 5. We all agreed that Lonzo profiled better as an off guard in the half court, given his strengths and weaknesses.
As for your comment about game plan, that's not how it works. Capitalizing on a weakness is not "forcing the opposing coach to adjust" any more than sagging defenders off Roberson because he can't shoot is.
Ding. That's why I have him #2. I think people underrate Fultz's passing ability.
Fultz is an incredible passer. Just need to watch his FIBA games where he had actual teammates to see it.
Agreed. Personally I didn't even go that far. I just saw higher assist rate with teammates .494TS%.
Sidenote. Jamel Artis for a workout? This is the kind of undrafted pick up that ends up in the L. Don't care if he's 24. Dude is doing subtle point forward things out there while being an elite shooter.
To be fair, AST% is just percentage of teammate's made field goals that are assisted by a player.
Meaning, if Fultz's AST% is 31%, then 31 of 100 shots his teammates make are assisted by Fultz. It doesn't matter whether it took them 150 attempts to get to 100 made shots or 400 attempts.
But it's ok if I respond to the poster that was talking directly to me right?
i'm just not sure why you're saying imam shebaz or whoever on silverscreenandroll found it when anyone who follows cranjis on twitter would have seen it directly from him
give credit to the right person.
He asked me where I found it...and my mama told me to always tell the truth.
Why is this getting under your skin so much guy?
Imam Shebaz(?) found it and shared it on SSR. That's where I found it and I'm giving credit to the guy that actually found it and shared it.
Obviously the dude that asked didn't know about Cranjis...and before this morning neither did I.
Had the question been who wrote this...then Cranjis is the correct answer. But that wasn't the question...lol.
Is it ok with you?
Did you have a Garfield Monday or something? _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
Fultz is an incredible passer. Just need to watch his FIBA games where he had actual teammates to see it.
This
Adjusting the pace he has better numbers than Ball with far worse teammates.
i think even adjusting for pace ball still has the superior passing numbers. that's not a slight on fultz, he's still a fantastic passer. ball is just really elite at moving the ball. _________________ substance over style
agreed. one, he's not as athletic as advertised imo. two, not being able to maintain academic eligibility to play NCAA ball is a red flag to me about mentality. it's not hard, and it's something that's so important to your career, and you still can't do it even if just going through the motions? previous players who couldn't maintain academic eligibility have been big time busts (mudiay, jennings, jeremy tyler...) _________________ substance over style
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