|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Who you got after Fultz? |
| Lonzo Ball |
|
75% |
[ 315 ] |
| Josh Jackson |
|
15% |
[ 64 ] |
| Jayson Tatum |
|
1% |
[ 8 ] |
| De'Aaron Fox |
|
4% |
[ 20 ] |
| Malik Monk |
|
1% |
[ 5 ] |
| Jonathan Isaac |
|
0% |
[ 4 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 416 |
|
| Author |
Message |
vicman
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 2379
Location: Arcadia
|
 Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fansincemagic wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | If they trade Russell for a "top 5" pick in THIS draft, then I'm going on another four year hiatus. Next year's, tho... |
I hear ya, but the upside of JJ for DLO is tempting defensively. The problem would be too many iffy shooters around Lonzo. Could you imagine that lineup IF JJ, Randle and BI improved their shooting? Again, too many ifs to pull the trigger. I tend to wonder if my perception would change on JJ if there they had a sharpshooting big in place. |
If I was going to trade anything for a lotto pick I would look more at 7 and Minnesota if issac is still on the board but not for Russell I would look at trading randle and clarkson for issac I really like that guy as another possible defensive pick. Minn might not want a 19 year old player also gets us out of having to pay randle after next year and allows us to be more athletic as issac can probably play multiple positions |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
WeDidItReddit
Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 1087
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| justsomelakerfan wrote: | https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/status/868196697003970561
Is there any way I can speak De'Aaron Fox at 2 out of existence? |
Won't even be better than Rick fox smh 
Last edited by WeDidItReddit on Fri May 26, 2017 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| justsomelakerfan wrote: | https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/status/868196697003970561
Is there any way I can speak De'Aaron Fox at 2 out of existence? |
I love me some @t1m_nba
| Quote: | RT Reed @Reed_nba May 24
Replying to @Reed_nba
5) I'd be very cautious about assuming Fox ever figures out his shot. History suggests he won't... For every Conley there are 5 MCWs. |
| Quote: | Jerry Khachoyan
@TheArmoTrader
While I'm on the topic: Fox is overrated as a defender. Uses pressure way too much/relies on quicks, which is elite but cant rely on that |
| Quote: | Cranjis McBasketball @T1m_NBA May 22
Cranjis McBasketball Retweeted Jerry Khachoyan
This is reflected in his defensive data, where he's much more meh against college level talent than the narrative would lead you to believe |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JUST-MING wrote: | | If they trade Russell for a "top 5" pick in THIS draft, then I'm going on another four year hiatus. Next year's, tho... |
They can trade for another top 5 pick to trade for a Impact player. so basically you get Lonzo Ball and possibly Paul George if Russell can get you a top 5 pick, I can easily see the Pacers being intrigued by Josh Jackson. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Raijin
Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 6576
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | If they trade Russell for a "top 5" pick in THIS draft, then I'm going on another four year hiatus. Next year's, tho... |
They can trade for another top 5 pick to trade for a Impact player. so basically you get Lonzo Ball and possibly Paul George if Russell can get you a top 5 pick, I can easily see the Pacers being intrigued by Josh Jackson. |
Why lose an asset when there's no need to?
What's the rush?
_________________
"It was tough," Kobe Bryant said. "But when it got really tough for me, I just checked myself in." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chronicle
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Raijin wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | If they trade Russell for a "top 5" pick in THIS draft, then I'm going on another four year hiatus. Next year's, tho... |
They can trade for another top 5 pick to trade for a Impact player. so basically you get Lonzo Ball and possibly Paul George if Russell can get you a top 5 pick, I can easily see the Pacers being intrigued by Josh Jackson. |
Why lose an asset when there's no need to?
What's the rush? |
brandon rush
_________________
Kobe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JUST-MING
Retired Number
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43990
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm intrigued by Josh Jackson.
I think a large part of Thomas' success in Boston is his backcourt mate, Bradley.
I can't think of many weaknesses in Russell and Jackson backcourt. Jackson elevated 5'11" Frank Mason to player of the year. I'd love to see his impact on 6'5" Russell. He guards the best opposing player. He turns turnovers to dunks. He's an explosive lob target. He's the best playmaker in the draft. He creates for himself off the ball and off the dribble. He has an insane motor i.e. changed the form on his jump shot mid season. I know some of his success is due to the little things, like his teammates boxing out on his drives... but with the way he spoon-fed them all year they probably were eager to do it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CervantesRises wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | epak wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | Is Lonzo Ball’s finishing efficiency at the basket for real?
| Quote: | | I don’t think Ball is a straight lead guard at the next level (if that wasn’t abundantly clear already), and this is the final straw in that calculus. Proficient modern lead guards have to be a threat to score at the next level and at multiple levels on the court. Ball does not project well to that role. His lack of wiggle and dribble moves with the ball hinders his ability to get to the rim at the college level, even with pristine spacing. That will only get more difficult against NBA lead guard athletes and athletic bigs who can switch and defend in space. Even when Ball got to the rim this past year, his lack of explosion in traffic, rigidity and uprightness as an inflexible athlete, inability to de-accelerate and lack of physicality finishing through contact were issues against far inferior competition than he will face at the basketball in the NBA. |
https://fansided.com/2017/05/26/lonzo-ball-scouting-report-finishing/ |
Cool. Will you accept him as a 2 guard then? |
If the Lakers draft him, I will accept him @ wherever he plays. |
This is absurd...you act like every NBA player is an elite defender and gives maximum effort on every play, every game. This is conjecture and opinion.
Kid hits on 73.8% of shots a the rim on a significant sample size of 131 attempts and we (and by that I mean you and other haters) have to find some way to develop a narrative to tear apart his game.
If you had him in your top 3 players I'd feel that you're being objective about his prospects at the NBA level...but with this jibberish it just reads as daily pettiness regarding a player that you don't like for inexplicable reasons.
You certainly have a right to your opinion...for example, I'm no fan of Fultz as I think he's a zero effort defender and despite his prodigious skills he did very little to elevate his teammates. But I'm not going to try and get anyone to believe that the kid can't play an isn't worthy of a top 2 or 3 draft position when he clearly is.
I don't know when Lonzo stole your milk money my dude...but I wish he would just call you and apologize. |
that article was written by one of the more respected draft analysts of the day (Cole Zwicker).....I am unsure why you are directing your immature rant towards me? Why is it an issue for you if someone, who is extremely more knowledgeable and credentialed than you, disagrees with you? Why is it too much to simply disagree with someone instead of trying to tear them down? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JUST-MING wrote: | I'm intrigued by Josh Jackson.
I think a large part of Thomas' success in Boston is his backcourt mate, Bradley.
I can't think of many weaknesses in Russell and Jackson backcourt. Jackson elevated 5'11" Frank Mason to player of the year. I'd love to see his impact on 6'5" Russell. He guards the best opposing player. He turns turnovers to dunks. He's an explosive lob target. He's the best playmaker in the draft. He creates for himself off the ball and off the dribble. He has an insane motor i.e. changed the form on his jump shot mid season. I know some of his success is due to the little things, like his teammates boxing out on his drives... but with the way he spoon-fed them all year they probably were eager to do it. |
If the Lakers really liked Josh Jackson they will probably dangle there young players for a top 5 pick to pair him with Lonzo and Ingram. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
USCandLakers
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 19955
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | I'm intrigued by Josh Jackson.
I think a large part of Thomas' success in Boston is his backcourt mate, Bradley.
I can't think of many weaknesses in Russell and Jackson backcourt. Jackson elevated 5'11" Frank Mason to player of the year. I'd love to see his impact on 6'5" Russell. He guards the best opposing player. He turns turnovers to dunks. He's an explosive lob target. He's the best playmaker in the draft. He creates for himself off the ball and off the dribble. He has an insane motor i.e. changed the form on his jump shot mid season. I know some of his success is due to the little things, like his teammates boxing out on his drives... but with the way he spoon-fed them all year they probably were eager to do it. |
If the Lakers really liked Josh Jackson they will probably dangle there young players for a top 5 pick to pair him with Lonzo and Ingram. |
Would probably trade DLO for Philly's 3rd.
Not sure I'd be on board with that. He's definitely the defender I'd love to have in the backcourt, but that shot...
_________________
A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made.  Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JustaObserver
Star Player
Joined: 20 May 2017
Posts: 3170
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CervantesRises wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | epak wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | Is Lonzo Ball’s finishing efficiency at the basket for real?
| Quote: | | I don’t think Ball is a straight lead guard at the next level (if that wasn’t abundantly clear already), and this is the final straw in that calculus. Proficient modern lead guards have to be a threat to score at the next level and at multiple levels on the court. Ball does not project well to that role. His lack of wiggle and dribble moves with the ball hinders his ability to get to the rim at the college level, even with pristine spacing. That will only get more difficult against NBA lead guard athletes and athletic bigs who can switch and defend in space. Even when Ball got to the rim this past year, his lack of explosion in traffic, rigidity and uprightness as an inflexible athlete, inability to de-accelerate and lack of physicality finishing through contact were issues against far inferior competition than he will face at the basketball in the NBA. |
https://fansided.com/2017/05/26/lonzo-ball-scouting-report-finishing/ |
Cool. Will you accept him as a 2 guard then? |
If the Lakers draft him, I will accept him @ wherever he plays. |
This is absurd...you act like every NBA player is an elite defender and gives maximum effort on every play, every game. This is conjecture and opinion.
Kid hits on 73.8% of shots a the rim on a significant sample size of 131 attempts and we (and by that I mean you and other haters) have to find some way to develop a narrative to tear apart his game.
If you had him in your top 3 players I'd feel that you're being objective about his prospects at the NBA level...but with this jibberish it just reads as daily pettiness regarding a player that you don't like for inexplicable reasons.
You certainly have a right to your opinion...for example, I'm no fan of Fultz as I think he's a zero effort defender and despite his prodigious skills he did very little to elevate his teammates. But I'm not going to try and get anyone to believe that the kid can't play an isn't worthy of a top 2 or 3 draft position when he clearly is.
I don't know when Lonzo stole your milk money my dude...but I wish he would just call you and apologize. |
Dude he just pointing stuff out like we do ALL the draft prospects.. This is the draft forum right? Now you might not like what he presents but is there any validation to what he presenting? If so then its up for discussion. I dont want to hear all about how JJ is super great nor do i want to hear about how BALL is going to lead us to the playoffs...ALL good stuff with no bad...pfft....I want to hear about All of the prospects FLAWS as well.
JJ- cant shoot 3s and FTs is horrendous. Also comes with off court problems which this Squad is no stranger to (Young/Russel/ Clarkson)
Ball- no..sorry less than average midrange game...Those at the rim shots? few where going inside due to him dribbling inside and more were lobs. His defense on quick PGs (which we have problems with) is wellllll?... He not taking over a game often via scoring threat even though he got the talent to do so..ala Lamar Odom. Not too much going inside a specific side of the court due to shot creation.
These are all things said about both of them...no surprise... look at tape. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chronicle
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| USCandLakers wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | I'm intrigued by Josh Jackson.
I think a large part of Thomas' success in Boston is his backcourt mate, Bradley.
I can't think of many weaknesses in Russell and Jackson backcourt. Jackson elevated 5'11" Frank Mason to player of the year. I'd love to see his impact on 6'5" Russell. He guards the best opposing player. He turns turnovers to dunks. He's an explosive lob target. He's the best playmaker in the draft. He creates for himself off the ball and off the dribble. He has an insane motor i.e. changed the form on his jump shot mid season. I know some of his success is due to the little things, like his teammates boxing out on his drives... but with the way he spoon-fed them all year they probably were eager to do it. |
If the Lakers really liked Josh Jackson they will probably dangle there young players for a top 5 pick to pair him with Lonzo and Ingram. |
Would probably trade DLO for Philly's 3rd.
Not sure I'd be on board with that. He's definitely the defender I'd love to have in the backcourt, but that shot... |
is pretty decent
_________________
Kobe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| are the lottery guys just all waiting until June for their workouts? Have not really seen any of them working out for any teams yet... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JustaObserver
Star Player
Joined: 20 May 2017
Posts: 3170
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| USCandLakers wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | I'm intrigued by Josh Jackson.
I think a large part of Thomas' success in Boston is his backcourt mate, Bradley.
I can't think of many weaknesses in Russell and Jackson backcourt. Jackson elevated 5'11" Frank Mason to player of the year. I'd love to see his impact on 6'5" Russell. He guards the best opposing player. He turns turnovers to dunks. He's an explosive lob target. He's the best playmaker in the draft. He creates for himself off the ball and off the dribble. He has an insane motor i.e. changed the form on his jump shot mid season. I know some of his success is due to the little things, like his teammates boxing out on his drives... but with the way he spoon-fed them all year they probably were eager to do it. |
If the Lakers really liked Josh Jackson they will probably dangle there young players for a top 5 pick to pair him with Lonzo and Ingram. |
Would probably trade DLO for Philly's 3rd.
Not sure I'd be on board with that. He's definitely the defender I'd love to have in the backcourt, but that shot... |
Before i trade Russel i would be on the phone trying to trade Clarkson/Randle/28 && Dengor MOZ...I think Russel is great with JJ/DSJr/Monk/Fox/Tatum..they all can drive and all they have to do is kick the ball out to a open Russel...and dont let Young resign with us,,,whooo! hoooo!!...raining Threes. Each one of those guys can collapse the D in their own way leaving Russel or Ingram or Young or Clarkson Enough time to shoot a wide open shot. Furthermore the Center can also Eat..as the defender has to worry about a short dump off or cross lob to the center(Zuuuu).
Most of those guys...when locked in and motivated...key word motivated also play something i soooo wish to see from this team "Defense"..smh. Im soo tired of this team lose big leads when Russel goes out or they look Lackadaisical after the half. Or Russel seems to go ICE cold so lets play ISO Ball..smh. Or Clarkson Defacto Point Guard...please no!! I dont want to see that no more..smh. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CervantesRises
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 3918
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| adkindo wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | epak wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | Is Lonzo Ball’s finishing efficiency at the basket for real?
| Quote: | | I don’t think Ball is a straight lead guard at the next level (if that wasn’t abundantly clear already), and this is the final straw in that calculus. Proficient modern lead guards have to be a threat to score at the next level and at multiple levels on the court. Ball does not project well to that role. His lack of wiggle and dribble moves with the ball hinders his ability to get to the rim at the college level, even with pristine spacing. That will only get more difficult against NBA lead guard athletes and athletic bigs who can switch and defend in space. Even when Ball got to the rim this past year, his lack of explosion in traffic, rigidity and uprightness as an inflexible athlete, inability to de-accelerate and lack of physicality finishing through contact were issues against far inferior competition than he will face at the basketball in the NBA. |
https://fansided.com/2017/05/26/lonzo-ball-scouting-report-finishing/ |
Cool. Will you accept him as a 2 guard then? |
If the Lakers draft him, I will accept him @ wherever he plays. |
This is absurd...you act like every NBA player is an elite defender and gives maximum effort on every play, every game. This is conjecture and opinion.
Kid hits on 73.8% of shots a the rim on a significant sample size of 131 attempts and we (and by that I mean you and other haters) have to find some way to develop a narrative to tear apart his game.
If you had him in your top 3 players I'd feel that you're being objective about his prospects at the NBA level...but with this jibberish it just reads as daily pettiness regarding a player that you don't like for inexplicable reasons.
You certainly have a right to your opinion...for example, I'm no fan of Fultz as I think he's a zero effort defender and despite his prodigious skills he did very little to elevate his teammates. But I'm not going to try and get anyone to believe that the kid can't play an isn't worthy of a top 2 or 3 draft position when he clearly is.
I don't know when Lonzo stole your milk money my dude...but I wish he would just call you and apologize. |
that article was written by one of the more respected draft analysts of the day (Cole Zwicker).....I am unsure why you are directing your immature rant towards me? Why is it an issue for you if someone, who is extremely more knowledgeable and credentialed than you, disagrees with you? Why is it too much to simply disagree with someone instead of trying to tear them down? |
You do realize that everytime someone takes exception to your relentless passive-aggressive attack on Lonzo Ball you call them immature?
Chill-out Bromance.
I agree that everyone has a right to their opinion...and when said opinion is posted in a public forum you have to be prepared for differing points of view...something you don't seem to be able to handle all too well imo.
What I said wasn't a rant or immature...it was a response to your incessant approach in this thread to discredit an obviously talented player by drawing on the opinions of people you feel are credible to support the narrative that Lonzo is not a top 5 talent in this draft...which is absurd by every possible measurable metric.
You are cherry picking to support your pov...that is about as far from objectivity as a person can get regardless of the persona they want to convey. It's intellectually dishonest.
I'd rather you just say you don't like the kid because that would be good enough...but your approach is akin to slander if you want to get real about it.
Lonzo has earned the status of his anticipated draft position. His play on the court supports this. His background checks support this. The advanced analytics support this. Whether he is a Laker or not is immaterial at this point because the conversation is now more about your personal bias and how you are attempting to poison the well while appearing objective.
You don't feel he's worthy of a top 5 pick as evidenced by your signature...so please enlighten me with more than a 'respected' writer's assertion of 'wiggle' if you want to move this from immature into mature people conversing.
Or just own that you don't like him and I'd personally be good.
But keep this in mind my dude...if you post something like this that I feel is garbage...I have a right to challenge it in a polite way befitting the expectations of this community...something I have been doing consistently with a smile and light hearted laugh that you feel is somehow immature. 
_________________
"If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CervantesRises
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 3918
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Now that's ^ a rant.
_________________
"If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Rant nicely.
Last edited by epak on Fri May 26, 2017 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CervantesRises wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | epak wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | Is Lonzo Ball’s finishing efficiency at the basket for real?
| Quote: | | I don’t think Ball is a straight lead guard at the next level (if that wasn’t abundantly clear already), and this is the final straw in that calculus. Proficient modern lead guards have to be a threat to score at the next level and at multiple levels on the court. Ball does not project well to that role. His lack of wiggle and dribble moves with the ball hinders his ability to get to the rim at the college level, even with pristine spacing. That will only get more difficult against NBA lead guard athletes and athletic bigs who can switch and defend in space. Even when Ball got to the rim this past year, his lack of explosion in traffic, rigidity and uprightness as an inflexible athlete, inability to de-accelerate and lack of physicality finishing through contact were issues against far inferior competition than he will face at the basketball in the NBA. |
https://fansided.com/2017/05/26/lonzo-ball-scouting-report-finishing/ |
Cool. Will you accept him as a 2 guard then? |
If the Lakers draft him, I will accept him @ wherever he plays. |
This is absurd...you act like every NBA player is an elite defender and gives maximum effort on every play, every game. This is conjecture and opinion.
Kid hits on 73.8% of shots a the rim on a significant sample size of 131 attempts and we (and by that I mean you and other haters) have to find some way to develop a narrative to tear apart his game.
If you had him in your top 3 players I'd feel that you're being objective about his prospects at the NBA level...but with this jibberish it just reads as daily pettiness regarding a player that you don't like for inexplicable reasons.
You certainly have a right to your opinion...for example, I'm no fan of Fultz as I think he's a zero effort defender and despite his prodigious skills he did very little to elevate his teammates. But I'm not going to try and get anyone to believe that the kid can't play an isn't worthy of a top 2 or 3 draft position when he clearly is.
I don't know when Lonzo stole your milk money my dude...but I wish he would just call you and apologize. |
that article was written by one of the more respected draft analysts of the day (Cole Zwicker).....I am unsure why you are directing your immature rant towards me? Why is it an issue for you if someone, who is extremely more knowledgeable and credentialed than you, disagrees with you? Why is it too much to simply disagree with someone instead of trying to tear them down? |
You do realize that everytime someone takes exception to your relentless passive-aggressive attack on Lonzo Ball you call them immature?
Chill-out Bromance.
I agree that everyone has a right to their opinion...and when said opinion is posted in a public forum you have to be prepared for differing points of view...something you don't seem to be able to handle all too well imo.
What I said wasn't a rant or immature...it was a response to your incessant approach in this thread to discredit an obviously talented player by drawing on the opinions of people you feel are credible to support the narrative that Lonzo is not a top 5 talent in this draft...which is absurd by every possible measurable metric.
You are cherry picking to support your pov...that is about as far from objectivity as a person can get regardless of the persona they want to convey. It's intellectually dishonest.
I'd rather you just say you don't like the kid because that would be good enough...but your approach is akin to slander if you want to get real about it.
Lonzo has earned the status of his anticipated draft position. His play on the court supports this. His background checks support this. The advanced analytics support this. Whether he is a Laker or not is immaterial at this point because the conversation is now more about your personal bias and how you are attempting to poison the well while appearing objective.
You don't feel he's worthy of a top 5 pick as evidenced by your signature...so please enlighten me with more than a 'respected' writer's assertion of 'wiggle' if you want to move this from immature into mature people conversing.
Or just own that you don't like him and I'd personally be good.
But keep this in mind my dude...if you post something like this that I feel is garbage...I have a right to challenge it in a polite way befitting the expectations of this community...something I have been doing consistently with a smile and light hearted laugh that you feel is somehow immature. |
your response was directed at me, but I didn't write the article, nor did you read it completely. Next, please look up slander so you cease using the word incorrectly.
You obviously are not very knowledgeable about the overall draft, or you would not have a problem that my top #4 does not include Lonzo Ball because you would recognize on average, he is outside the top 3 on most respected national "big boards". Cole Zwicker, the author of that article just moved him up to #4....Sam Vecenie has him @ #5, and Marc Whittington (guy who runs hoop-math.com) has him @ #6....so maybe you should understand where he falls on a national level before you start identifying things as "garbage". Your take that Ball is #1....is far more of an outlier than my take that he is #5.
Why do you think I need to be objective? Where does that come from? I post my thoughts and articles that mostly support those thoughts. In recent weeks, this thread has been invaded by people that have very little understanding of the draft or evaluating prospects, and feel they have a right to take cheap shots at anyone that does not agree with their Ball "fan boy" take....but maybe after your here for another couple years, you can inform me of how this thing works. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GoldenThroat
Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Disengage, gentlemen. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CervantesRises
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 3918
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JustaObserver wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | epak wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | Is Lonzo Ball’s finishing efficiency at the basket for real?
| Quote: | | I don’t think Ball is a straight lead guard at the next level (if that wasn’t abundantly clear already), and this is the final straw in that calculus. Proficient modern lead guards have to be a threat to score at the next level and at multiple levels on the court. Ball does not project well to that role. His lack of wiggle and dribble moves with the ball hinders his ability to get to the rim at the college level, even with pristine spacing. That will only get more difficult against NBA lead guard athletes and athletic bigs who can switch and defend in space. Even when Ball got to the rim this past year, his lack of explosion in traffic, rigidity and uprightness as an inflexible athlete, inability to de-accelerate and lack of physicality finishing through contact were issues against far inferior competition than he will face at the basketball in the NBA. |
https://fansided.com/2017/05/26/lonzo-ball-scouting-report-finishing/ |
Cool. Will you accept him as a 2 guard then? |
If the Lakers draft him, I will accept him @ wherever he plays. |
This is absurd...you act like every NBA player is an elite defender and gives maximum effort on every play, every game. This is conjecture and opinion.
Kid hits on 73.8% of shots a the rim on a significant sample size of 131 attempts and we (and by that I mean you and other haters) have to find some way to develop a narrative to tear apart his game.
If you had him in your top 3 players I'd feel that you're being objective about his prospects at the NBA level...but with this jibberish it just reads as daily pettiness regarding a player that you don't like for inexplicable reasons.
You certainly have a right to your opinion...for example, I'm no fan of Fultz as I think he's a zero effort defender and despite his prodigious skills he did very little to elevate his teammates. But I'm not going to try and get anyone to believe that the kid can't play an isn't worthy of a top 2 or 3 draft position when he clearly is.
I don't know when Lonzo stole your milk money my dude...but I wish he would just call you and apologize. |
Dude he just pointing stuff out like we do ALL the draft prospects.. This is the draft forum right? Now you might not like what he presents but is there any validation to what he presenting? If so then its up for discussion. I dont want to hear all about how JJ is super great nor do i want to hear about how BALL is going to lead us to the playoffs...ALL good stuff with no bad...pfft....I want to hear about All of the prospects FLAWS as well.
JJ- cant shoot 3s and FTs is horrendous. Also comes with off court problems which this Squad is no stranger to (Young/Russel/ Clarkson)
Ball- no..sorry less than average midrange game...Those at the rim shots? few where going inside due to him dribbling inside and more were lobs. His defense on quick PGs (which we have problems with) is wellllll?... He not taking over a game often via scoring threat even though he got the talent to do so..ala Lamar Odom. Not too much going inside a specific side of the court due to shot creation.
These are all things said about both of them...no surprise... look at tape. |
Got it.
So did UCLA's offense play at all into the paltry number of FGAs in mid-range that leads a lot of 'experts' to claim he has no mid-range?
Could it be that he had no mid-range because that wasn't a major part of this UCLA offense for his role?
Could it be that his role was to push tempo, move the ball, distribute to shooters, and that by working within the design of the offense he was able to elevate a team from 15-17 to over 30 wins and a historically successful offensive season by measurable statistics?
Understand that I'm not saying Lonzo is the 2nd coming. And that I have never seen a rookie in any sport be a finished product without flaws save for maybe Magic and even he couldn't shoot from outside when he first entered the NBA.
What I am saying is that if conversation is the point of this forum it's ok to have any opinion you want for any reason and to stick to it.
But I do take exception with people who make every effort to discredit a kid under the guise of objectivity.
Lonzo is a top 3 pick. Fultz is a top 3 pick. JJ is a top 3 pick.
Any insinuation to the contrary is a valid opinion even if it's not based in measurable facts that we have all seen by this point.
adkindo has yet to post 1 positive about Lonzo that I have seen...but each day we get these treats about 'wiggle'. Either this is a forum and he has a right to post them or it's not a forum and I have to agree...which is it?
You tell me.
_________________
"If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CervantesRises
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 3918
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Disengage, gentlemen. |
As you wish...I don't think I did or said anything wrong...but if I did please let me know where I took a misstep.
_________________
"If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
44TheLogo
Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| GoldenThroat wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | Do people like Anzejs Pasecniks? I like some video on him but reading some alarming things in his mid season scouting report on DX. I like the idea of him. |
|
IDK if you heard my podcast with Mike Schmitz of DX, but he went into Pasecniks a bit. |
Mike was pretty low on DLO. |
He places a lot of value on mentality, which I do not, but I can see why you'd be low on a guy if that's really important to you.
I'll take the 21 year old who can put up 40 over the 19 year old who's a good kid but has a (bleep) of holes in his game. |
i think generally judging a prospect on mentality is fool's gold where it's easy to project onto others, and it's especially ripe for personal biases
it's nearly impossible to tell from what we see anyway, we're not around these guys. so i will ignore mentality and look solely at the tape, unless there's hard evidence/data available of off the court stuff (crime, etc.)
_________________
substance over style |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CervantesRises
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 3918
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| adkindo wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | epak wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | Is Lonzo Ball’s finishing efficiency at the basket for real?
| Quote: | | I don’t think Ball is a straight lead guard at the next level (if that wasn’t abundantly clear already), and this is the final straw in that calculus. Proficient modern lead guards have to be a threat to score at the next level and at multiple levels on the court. Ball does not project well to that role. His lack of wiggle and dribble moves with the ball hinders his ability to get to the rim at the college level, even with pristine spacing. That will only get more difficult against NBA lead guard athletes and athletic bigs who can switch and defend in space. Even when Ball got to the rim this past year, his lack of explosion in traffic, rigidity and uprightness as an inflexible athlete, inability to de-accelerate and lack of physicality finishing through contact were issues against far inferior competition than he will face at the basketball in the NBA. |
https://fansided.com/2017/05/26/lonzo-ball-scouting-report-finishing/ |
Cool. Will you accept him as a 2 guard then? |
If the Lakers draft him, I will accept him @ wherever he plays. |
This is absurd...you act like every NBA player is an elite defender and gives maximum effort on every play, every game. This is conjecture and opinion.
Kid hits on 73.8% of shots a the rim on a significant sample size of 131 attempts and we (and by that I mean you and other haters) have to find some way to develop a narrative to tear apart his game.
If you had him in your top 3 players I'd feel that you're being objective about his prospects at the NBA level...but with this jibberish it just reads as daily pettiness regarding a player that you don't like for inexplicable reasons.
You certainly have a right to your opinion...for example, I'm no fan of Fultz as I think he's a zero effort defender and despite his prodigious skills he did very little to elevate his teammates. But I'm not going to try and get anyone to believe that the kid can't play an isn't worthy of a top 2 or 3 draft position when he clearly is.
I don't know when Lonzo stole your milk money my dude...but I wish he would just call you and apologize. |
that article was written by one of the more respected draft analysts of the day (Cole Zwicker).....I am unsure why you are directing your immature rant towards me? Why is it an issue for you if someone, who is extremely more knowledgeable and credentialed than you, disagrees with you? Why is it too much to simply disagree with someone instead of trying to tear them down? |
You do realize that everytime someone takes exception to your relentless passive-aggressive attack on Lonzo Ball you call them immature?
Chill-out Bromance.
I agree that everyone has a right to their opinion...and when said opinion is posted in a public forum you have to be prepared for differing points of view...something you don't seem to be able to handle all too well imo.
What I said wasn't a rant or immature...it was a response to your incessant approach in this thread to discredit an obviously talented player by drawing on the opinions of people you feel are credible to support the narrative that Lonzo is not a top 5 talent in this draft...which is absurd by every possible measurable metric.
You are cherry picking to support your pov...that is about as far from objectivity as a person can get regardless of the persona they want to convey. It's intellectually dishonest.
I'd rather you just say you don't like the kid because that would be good enough...but your approach is akin to slander if you want to get real about it.
Lonzo has earned the status of his anticipated draft position. His play on the court supports this. His background checks support this. The advanced analytics support this. Whether he is a Laker or not is immaterial at this point because the conversation is now more about your personal bias and how you are attempting to poison the well while appearing objective.
You don't feel he's worthy of a top 5 pick as evidenced by your signature...so please enlighten me with more than a 'respected' writer's assertion of 'wiggle' if you want to move this from immature into mature people conversing.
Or just own that you don't like him and I'd personally be good.
But keep this in mind my dude...if you post something like this that I feel is garbage...I have a right to challenge it in a polite way befitting the expectations of this community...something I have been doing consistently with a smile and light hearted laugh that you feel is somehow immature. |
your response was directed at me, but I didn't write the article, nor did you read it completely. Next, please look up slander so you cease using the word incorrectly.
You obviously are not very knowledgeable about the overall draft, or you would not have a problem that my top #4 does not include Lonzo Ball because you would recognize on average, he is outside the top 3 on most respected national "big boards". Cole Zwicker, the author of that article just moved him up to #4....Sam Vecenie has him @ #5, and Marc Whittington (guy who runs hoop-math.com) has him @ #6....so maybe you should understand where he falls on a national level before you start identifying things as "garbage". Your take that Ball is #1....is far more of an outlier than my take that he is #5.
Why do you think I need to be objective? Where does that come from? I post my thoughts and articles that mostly support those thoughts. In recent weeks, this thread has been invaded by people that have very little understanding of the draft or evaluating prospects, and feel they have a right to take cheap shots at anyone that does not agree with their Ball "fan boy" take....but maybe after your here for another couple years, you can inform me of how this thing works. |
Perhaps I've been here since round about 2008-2009 under a different account. Perhaps I've been watching the Lakers since 1978. Perhaps I have my own opinions on who is a better player and it's just as valid as any other person's because none of us know how these kids will translate to the NBA. And perhaps I don't care where these 'respected' guys rank and then reKiper mock drafts for clicks as if there's something dramatically changing every couple of days when zero basketball has been played in months.
Lighten up my dude...nothing I did was intended to be a dick to you...it was just conversation with a different point of view.
Squashed or Grudge...how you wanna handle it?
_________________
"If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DangeRuss
Star Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 1418
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | I'm intrigued by Josh Jackson.
I think a large part of Thomas' success in Boston is his backcourt mate, Bradley.
I can't think of many weaknesses in Russell and Jackson backcourt. Jackson elevated 5'11" Frank Mason to player of the year. I'd love to see his impact on 6'5" Russell. He guards the best opposing player. He turns turnovers to dunks. He's an explosive lob target. He's the best playmaker in the draft. He creates for himself off the ball and off the dribble. He has an insane motor i.e. changed the form on his jump shot mid season. I know some of his success is due to the little things, like his teammates boxing out on his drives... but with the way he spoon-fed them all year they probably were eager to do it. |
If the Lakers really liked Josh Jackson they will probably dangle there young players for a top 5 pick to pair him with Lonzo and Ingram. |
Why would they do that? Why not just take Jackson. Why does eveything have to be a blow up or trade |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 44TheLogo wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | Do people like Anzejs Pasecniks? I like some video on him but reading some alarming things in his mid season scouting report on DX. I like the idea of him. |
|
IDK if you heard my podcast with Mike Schmitz of DX, but he went into Pasecniks a bit. |
Mike was pretty low on DLO. |
He places a lot of value on mentality, which I do not, but I can see why you'd be low on a guy if that's really important to you.
I'll take the 21 year old who can put up 40 over the 19 year old who's a good kid but has a (bleep) of holes in his game. |
i think generally judging a prospect on mentality is fool's gold where it's easy to project onto others, and it's especially ripe for personal biases
it's nearly impossible to tell from what we see anyway, we're not around these guys. so i will ignore mentality and look solely at the tape, unless there's hard evidence/data available of off the court stuff (crime, etc.) |
What's on Draft went in depth on Monk in recent episode....just fyi. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
