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| Who you got after Fultz? |
| Lonzo Ball |
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75% |
[ 315 ] |
| Josh Jackson |
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15% |
[ 64 ] |
| Jayson Tatum |
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1% |
[ 8 ] |
| De'Aaron Fox |
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4% |
[ 20 ] |
| Malik Monk |
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1% |
[ 5 ] |
| Jonathan Isaac |
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0% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 416 |
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Clutch24
Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Feb 2011
Posts: 795
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 Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | epak wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | Is Lonzo Ball’s finishing efficiency at the basket for real?
| Quote: | | I don’t think Ball is a straight lead guard at the next level (if that wasn’t abundantly clear already), and this is the final straw in that calculus. Proficient modern lead guards have to be a threat to score at the next level and at multiple levels on the court. Ball does not project well to that role. His lack of wiggle and dribble moves with the ball hinders his ability to get to the rim at the college level, even with pristine spacing. That will only get more difficult against NBA lead guard athletes and athletic bigs who can switch and defend in space. Even when Ball got to the rim this past year, his lack of explosion in traffic, rigidity and uprightness as an inflexible athlete, inability to de-accelerate and lack of physicality finishing through contact were issues against far inferior competition than he will face at the basketball in the NBA. |
https://fansided.com/2017/05/26/lonzo-ball-scouting-report-finishing/ |
Cool. Will you accept him as a 2 guard then? |
If the Lakers draft him, I will accept him @ wherever he plays. |
This is absurd...you act like every NBA player is an elite defender and gives maximum effort on every play, every game. This is conjecture and opinion.
Kid hits on 73.8% of shots a the rim on a significant sample size of 131 attempts and we (and by that I mean you and other haters) have to find some way to develop a narrative to tear apart his game.
If you had him in your top 3 players I'd feel that you're being objective about his prospects at the NBA level...but with this jibberish it just reads as daily pettiness regarding a player that you don't like for inexplicable reasons.
You certainly have a right to your opinion...for example, I'm no fan of Fultz as I think he's a zero effort defender and despite his prodigious skills he did very little to elevate his teammates. But I'm not going to try and get anyone to believe that the kid can't play an isn't worthy of a top 2 or 3 draft position when he clearly is.
I don't know when Lonzo stole your milk money my dude...but I wish he would just call you and apologize.  |
that article was written by one of the more respected draft analysts of the day (Cole Zwicker).....I am unsure why you are directing your immature rant towards me? Why is it an issue for you if someone, who is extremely more knowledgeable and credentialed than you, disagrees with you? Why is it too much to simply disagree with someone instead of trying to tear them down? |
You do realize that everytime someone takes exception to your relentless passive-aggressive attack on Lonzo Ball you call them immature?
Chill-out Bromance.
I agree that everyone has a right to their opinion...and when said opinion is posted in a public forum you have to be prepared for differing points of view...something you don't seem to be able to handle all too well imo.
What I said wasn't a rant or immature...it was a response to your incessant approach in this thread to discredit an obviously talented player by drawing on the opinions of people you feel are credible to support the narrative that Lonzo is not a top 5 talent in this draft...which is absurd by every possible measurable metric.
You are cherry picking to support your pov...that is about as far from objectivity as a person can get regardless of the persona they want to convey. It's intellectually dishonest.
I'd rather you just say you don't like the kid because that would be good enough...but your approach is akin to slander if you want to get real about it.
Lonzo has earned the status of his anticipated draft position. His play on the court supports this. His background checks support this. The advanced analytics support this. Whether he is a Laker or not is immaterial at this point because the conversation is now more about your personal bias and how you are attempting to poison the well while appearing objective.
You don't feel he's worthy of a top 5 pick as evidenced by your signature...so please enlighten me with more than a 'respected' writer's assertion of 'wiggle' if you want to move this from immature into mature people conversing.
Or just own that you don't like him and I'd personally be good.
But keep this in mind my dude...if you post something like this that I feel is garbage...I have a right to challenge it in a polite way befitting the expectations of this community...something I have been doing consistently with a smile and light hearted laugh that you feel is somehow immature.  |
your response was directed at me, but I didn't write the article, nor did you read it completely. Next, please look up slander so you cease using the word incorrectly.
You obviously are not very knowledgeable about the overall draft, or you would not have a problem that my top #4 does not include Lonzo Ball because you would recognize on average, he is outside the top 3 on most respected national "big boards". Cole Zwicker, the author of that article just moved him up to #4....Sam Vecenie has him @ #5, and Marc Whittington (guy who runs hoop-math.com) has him @ #6....so maybe you should understand where he falls on a national level before you start identifying things as "garbage". Your take that Ball is #1....is far more of an outlier than my take that he is #5.
Why do you think I need to be objective? Where does that come from? I post my thoughts and articles that mostly support those thoughts. In recent weeks, this thread has been invaded by people that have very little understanding of the draft or evaluating prospects, and feel they have a right to take cheap shots at anyone that does not agree with their Ball "fan boy" take....but maybe after your here for another couple years, you can inform me of how this thing works. |
Most respected big boards?! Lol. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerfanaticPT wrote: | Still feel DAR and Lonzo are both more 2 guards rather than a 1. Our defense would probably also be poor with that backcourt.
My dream: Jackson at 2, then trade Julius and if needed JC to Sacramento for 5 and get Fox for the point. We end up shoring up our defense and get to keep DAR off ball. |
I still feel that this offense will be better with two SGs who are good passers than Russell Westbrook. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Practice wrote: | | Russell at the one and ball at the two with him handling the ball in transition is what I want if we draft him. That could be strong if we the guys we have deliver and we add talent. |
Which, kind of sabotages things a bit.
I thought we wanted DAR off-ball? |
Not reasonable posters. |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I just want two guards who can shoot and pass in the lineup. Is it OK that I don't label them the 1 or 2? |
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lakerfanaticPT
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1572
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Shoot and pass, yes, what about defense!!! |
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Villain6Activated
Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | I just want two guards who can shoot and pass in the lineup. Is it OK that I don't label them the 1 or 2? |
The most exciting part of a potential Lonzo/DLO backcourt to me is this exact reason. Both of these guys can play the 1 or 2, both of these guys have good size and shot.
To casual fans, Lonzo will be our PG. To the Laker die hards, we'll know that both guys run our offense and handle the ball. These two and Ingram in a couple years gonna be fun basketball.
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerfanaticPT wrote: | | Shoot and pass, yes, what about defense!!! |
Ahhh hahahahaha.
Yea, 2 guys who can shoot, pass and play defense.
So easy to find. |
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Villain6Activated
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerfanaticPT wrote: | | Shoot and pass, yes, what about defense!!! |
Do these guys buy in to the defensive strategy and give good effort? If they do, then I don't think defense will be a problem.
For me it's more about getting good defenders at the 4 and 5 that can pick up some of the slack. I love Randle on offense, but I'd really love to see him take his game to the next level on the defensive end. The way I see it is that if our young core buys into the defensive scheme, and are committed to playing team defense then it won't be a problem. That's what separates (imo) a talented roster and a roster capable of winning a championship.
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AC Green's V-Card
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Joined: 09 Aug 2012
Posts: 3063
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerfanaticPT wrote: | | Still feel DAR and Lonzo are both more 2 guards rather than a 1. Our defense would probably also be poor with that backcourt. |
I mean, the traditional idea of a "1" is kind of going by the way side. Harden, LeBron, Westbrook, Giannis (and soon to be Simmons) are all non-traditional primary ballhandlers. And one of the traits they all have in common is they can grab the defensive board and start the break. Lonzo shares that same ability. Don't see any reason why he can't be a "1" in the NBA. |
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vanexelent
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Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Practice wrote: | | Russell at the one and ball at the two with him handling the ball in transition is what I want if we draft him. That could be strong if we the guys we have deliver and we add talent. |
Which, kind of sabotages things a bit.
I thought we wanted DAR off-ball? |
Not reasonable posters. |
Well Luke tried him out there to close the season for a reason. |
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Raijin
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 6576
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | lakerfanaticPT wrote: | | Shoot and pass, yes, what about defense!!! |
Ahhh hahahahaha.
Yea, 2 guys who can shoot, pass and play defense.
So easy to find. |
It's sad that this is the state of things in the NBA
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8150
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| LilJay24 wrote: | | epak wrote: | | I just want two guards who can shoot and pass in the lineup. Is it OK that I don't label them the 1 or 2? |
The most exciting part of a potential Lonzo/DLO backcourt to me is this exact reason. Both of these guys can play the 1 or 2, both of these guys have good size and shot.
To casual fans, Lonzo will be our PG. To the Laker die hards, we'll know that both guys run our offense and handle the ball. These two and Ingram in a couple years gonna be fun basketball. |
Correct me if I'm wrong but all the negative issues discussed are half court issues, correct? In the half court the Lakers have multiple players that can be the primary ball handler. Ingram, Randle, Russell, Clarkson and George or any marquee player they bring in.
Ball's main effectiveness will be in transition. Whether he rebounds and pushes or is the outlet moving the ball to the open man. Once they get into half court other players can take over when adventitious. In the half court he can use his other strengths of cutting or spotting up behind the 3pt line. In many ways interchangeable with Russell.
Just seems to me that the article and critical comments continue to focus on what Ball does not do well instead of what he does. He is not perfect. But none of the top prospects are. It will take time for any of them to be the players we hope they will be. They all can make contributions this year and develop as years go by. None are finished perfect prospects. |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | LilJay24 wrote: | | epak wrote: | | I just want two guards who can shoot and pass in the lineup. Is it OK that I don't label them the 1 or 2? |
The most exciting part of a potential Lonzo/DLO backcourt to me is this exact reason. Both of these guys can play the 1 or 2, both of these guys have good size and shot.
To casual fans, Lonzo will be our PG. To the Laker die hards, we'll know that both guys run our offense and handle the ball. These two and Ingram in a couple years gonna be fun basketball. |
Correct me if I'm wrong but all the negative issues discussed are half court issues, correct? In the half court the Lakers have multiple players that can be the primary ball handler. Ingram, Randle, Russell, Clarkson and George or any marquee player they bring in.
Ball's main effectiveness will be in transition. Whether he rebounds and pushes or is the outlet moving the ball to the open man. Once they get into half court other players can take over when adventitious. In the half court he can use his other strengths of cutting or spotting up behind the 3pt line.
Just seems to me that the article and critical comments continue to focus on what Ball does not do well instead of what he does. He is not perfect. But none of the top prospects are. |
I think Ball's limitations as the ball handler in the half court is overblown. But his off the ball action is so good that it'll probably be more efficient if he's off the ball anyway. |
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DangeRuss
Star Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 1418
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerfanaticPT wrote: | Still feel DAR and Lonzo are both more 2 guards rather than a 1. Our defense would probably also be poor with that backcourt.
My dream: Jackson at 2, then trade Julius and if needed JC to Sacramento for 5 and get Fox for the point. We end up shoring up our defense and get to keep DAR off ball. |
Dlo is fine at the 1, he fits the archetype of today's best point guards such as curry and kyrie. My dream scenario would be draft Jackson at 2, trade Randle and Clarkson for the pick resulting in Jonathan Isaac to be our pf of the future. Have nance start at pf until Isaac is ready to take over to eventually have a lineup of:
Dlo
Jackson
Ingram
Isaac
Cousins
Boom.
My pipe dream scenario. |
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VicXLakers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Raijin wrote: | | epak wrote: | | lakerfanaticPT wrote: | | Shoot and pass, yes, what about defense!!! |
Ahhh hahahahaha.
Yea, 2 guys who can shoot, pass and play defense.
So easy to find. |
It's sad that this is the state of things in the NBA |
defense isn't a matter of can't...more like not willing to make the effort if it doesn't show up in the stats |
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GoldenThroat
Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerfanaticPT wrote: | | Shoot and pass, yes, what about defense!!! |
A backcourt of Kyrie Irving + JR Smith are defending champions and in the Finals for the 3rd straight year. |
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pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54573
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Lakers Draft Workouts: May 29, 2017
The Lakers’ front office will be on the clock this Memorial Day, as six more draft prospects audition on Monday.
Bryce Alford | G | UCLA | | 6’3 | 180 | Sr.
Dwayne Bacon | SG/SF | Florida State | 6’7 | 220 | So.
Jordan Bell | PF | Oregon | 6’9 | 225 | Jr.
Amida Brimah | C | Connecticut | 7’0 | 229 | Sr.
Kennedy Meeks | C | North Carolina | 6’10 | 260 | Sr.
Derrick Walton Jr. | PG | Michigan | 6’1 | 190 | Sr.
http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/170529-draft-workouts?cid=fb |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8150
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | LilJay24 wrote: | | epak wrote: | | I just want two guards who can shoot and pass in the lineup. Is it OK that I don't label them the 1 or 2? |
The most exciting part of a potential Lonzo/DLO backcourt to me is this exact reason. Both of these guys can play the 1 or 2, both of these guys have good size and shot.
To casual fans, Lonzo will be our PG. To the Laker die hards, we'll know that both guys run our offense and handle the ball. These two and Ingram in a couple years gonna be fun basketball. |
Correct me if I'm wrong but all the negative issues discussed are half court issues, correct? In the half court the Lakers have multiple players that can be the primary ball handler. Ingram, Randle, Russell, Clarkson and George or any marquee player they bring in.
Ball's main effectiveness will be in transition. Whether he rebounds and pushes or is the outlet moving the ball to the open man. Once they get into half court other players can take over when adventitious. In the half court he can use his other strengths of cutting or spotting up behind the 3pt line.
Just seems to me that the article and critical comments continue to focus on what Ball does not do well instead of what he does. He is not perfect. But none of the top prospects are. |
I think Ball's limitations as the ball handler in the half court is overblown. But his off the ball action is so good that it'll probably be more efficient if he's off the ball anyway. |
Just seems to me like some are trying too hard to discredit his accomplishments by focusing on his weaknesses. Without giving him credit for what he does well. I get it, Ball is not going to break down his defender at a high rate (we think).
We assume other players will "fix" their weaknesses, but Ball will not?
I am excited about this young man playing for the Lakers. But my expectation is not that he will be the next IT, Irving or Wall. He will excel in other areas. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerfanaticPT wrote: | Still feel DAR and Lonzo are both more 2 guards rather than a 1. Our defense would probably also be poor with that backcourt.
My dream: Jackson at 2, then trade Julius and if needed JC to Sacramento for 5 and get Fox for the point. We end up shoring up our defense and get to keep DAR off ball. |
Do u understand how poor the shooting would be with fox/Jackson on the perimeter?
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakerfanaticPT wrote: | Still feel DAR and Lonzo are both more 2 guards rather than a 1. Our defense would probably also be poor with that backcourt.
My dream: Jackson at 2, then trade Julius and if needed JC to Sacramento for 5 and get Fox for the point. We end up shoring up our defense and get to keep DAR off ball. |
Do u understand how poor the shooting would be with fox/Jackson on the perimeter? |
Ain't no spacing in a foxhole. |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakerfanaticPT wrote: | Still feel DAR and Lonzo are both more 2 guards rather than a 1. Our defense would probably also be poor with that backcourt.
My dream: Jackson at 2, then trade Julius and if needed JC to Sacramento for 5 and get Fox for the point. We end up shoring up our defense and get to keep DAR off ball. |
Do u understand how poor the shooting would be with fox/Jackson on the perimeter? |
Jackson isn't a bad perimeter shooter though. Not yet.
There's the skepticism about his 3, sure, but we're also talking like he didn't shoot 37% from 3, either.
Not defending Fox/Jackson, just a talking point about Jackson.
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JustaObserver
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Posts: 3124
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | lakerfanaticPT wrote: | | Still feel DAR and Lonzo are both more 2 guards rather than a 1. Our defense would probably also be poor with that backcourt. |
I mean, the traditional idea of a "1" is kind of going by the way side. Harden, LeBron, Westbrook, Giannis (and soon to be Simmons) are all non-traditional primary ballhandlers. And one of the traits they all have in common is they can grab the defensive board and start the break. Lonzo shares that same ability. Don't see any reason why he can't be a "1" in the NBA. |
Yeah all those mentioned are quick enough to go inside on you at will in a half court offense too. That ability allows them to take it strong and collapse the defense or dish out to the open player sitting back at the 3 line. |
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43986
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
“He understands how to win and he’s brought that winning demeanor here. And it’s contagious because I think so many players think winning is predicated on ‘how many [points] do I get?’ Or ‘can I get a double-double.’ And it’s not that way with him. He figures out, before the game or during the game what he’s got to do to win.”
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| Quote: |
“And the feel he has for the game is tremendous. He knows who should get the ball, when, what time of the game; whether we need foul shooting, or an inside basket or a three-point basket, he’s just got a great feel for that.”
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http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/ucla-coach-steve-alford-explains-lonzo-balls-greatest-strength-122216
Last edited by JUST-MING on Sat May 27, 2017 2:23 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Mark Medina: Not surprising: De’Aaron Fox plans to work out for Lakers and Sixers. Lakers’ workout likely to happen mid-June (week of 11-17) 47 mins ago – via Twitter MarkG_Medina |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | | Quote: | | Mark Medina: Not surprising: De’Aaron Fox plans to work out for Lakers and Sixers. Lakers’ workout likely to happen mid-June (week of 11-17) 47 mins ago – via Twitter MarkG_Medina |
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Well, how exciting!
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