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| Who you got after Fultz? |
| Lonzo Ball |
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75% |
[ 315 ] |
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15% |
[ 64 ] |
| Jayson Tatum |
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1% |
[ 8 ] |
| De'Aaron Fox |
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4% |
[ 20 ] |
| Malik Monk |
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1% |
[ 5 ] |
| Jonathan Isaac |
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0% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 416 |
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adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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 Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | Posted this by accident in the DLO thread.
Anyone else feel like, even if we get the #1, we're taking Ball? Feels like it's Magic's pick to make, and the home-grown UCLA kid that reminds him of himself (and if they make the title game, forget it) will be too much to pass up. I think this is our draft board:
1st: Ball
2nd: Ball
3rd: Whoever the Pacers want. |
sadly, that may be true...hopefully our scouting department and Pelinka make the call....I do not think we will be drafting for the Pacers at #3 |
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BynumForThree
Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1254
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | Posted this by accident in the DLO thread.
Anyone else feel like, even if we get the #1, we're taking Ball? Feels like it's Magic's pick to make, and the home-grown UCLA kid that reminds him of himself (and if they make the title game, forget it) will be too much to pass up. I think this is our draft board:
1st: Ball
2nd: Ball
3rd: Whoever the Pacers want. |
Sadly yeah. I hope if we get #1 Magic will see how good Fultz is during his workout but I feel like the narrative behind Ball is going to win out. |
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adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| BynumForThree wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | Posted this by accident in the DLO thread.
Anyone else feel like, even if we get the #1, we're taking Ball? Feels like it's Magic's pick to make, and the home-grown UCLA kid that reminds him of himself (and if they make the title game, forget it) will be too much to pass up. I think this is our draft board:
1st: Ball
2nd: Ball
3rd: Whoever the Pacers want. |
Sadly yeah. I hope if we get #1 Magic will see how good Fultz is during his workout but I feel like the narrative behind Ball is going to win out. |
at least Ball is better than Magic 
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=18983846 |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| BynumForThree wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | tox wrote: | | defense wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | noahp45 wrote: | I'm liking the idea of a
Ball
Waiters or Seth Curry
George
Randle
Big boy Moz |
Until you realize Ball is just like any other rookie we've had... meaning it will take time. While PG13 is an inefficient scorer, and a passive Kobe. 22 pts and he's had his own team for awhile, so nothing will change on the scoring front. 22 is lightweight for a "superstar" who might not make the all-star in the West either.
My comment is based on assuming that you've dealt Ingram and D'Lo for George? Terrible idea, hope this isn't what Magic and Pelinka are thinking. |
You really feel like George is inefficient?
.448
.383
.914
5 free throws a game |
57.4% TS% isn't bad at all, although in 2017 it's not great. Solidly above average. And it's not like his volume is that high.
Add in 3.3 assists per 36 to 3.0 turnovers and.... eh?
I feel like there's a big disparity in terms of how PG is perceived and how he actually plays, because he's so damn streaky and his hot streaks stick with you. |
The reason I think he's a a superstar is because he's a great defender. I don't mind a streaky player all that much if they bring it defensively every night and when he is playing well, he's arguably the best 2 way wing in the game. |
His defense has drastically dropped this year. The stats and eye test can attest to that. And best two-way wing? Did Kawhi Leonard retire yesterday or something? |
I would bet it will pick back up in the playoffs as he always has. And I said arguably for a reason. I agree Kawhi is better right now but I'm not sure PG wouldn't be a MVP candidate if they switched spots. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| BynumForThree wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | Posted this by accident in the DLO thread.
Anyone else feel like, even if we get the #1, we're taking Ball? Feels like it's Magic's pick to make, and the home-grown UCLA kid that reminds him of himself (and if they make the title game, forget it) will be too much to pass up. I think this is our draft board:
1st: Ball
2nd: Ball
3rd: Whoever the Pacers want. |
Sadly yeah. I hope if we get #1 Magic will see how good Fultz is during his workout but I feel like the narrative behind Ball is going to win out. |
No need to be sad guys. The narrative won't win out, him being BPA will. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | Watching Lonzo highlights, and I can't help but feel his court vision is being highly overhyped much like DLo's was coming out. His passing is good, but not great or elite like Kidd/Magic or even Ben Simmons. People expecting that kind of floor leader will be disappointed in this kid. I think he can create opportunities within a system, similar to DLo. But guys like Magic and Kidd were the system. I don't see the comparison. Maybe I need to watch more film. |
You don't lead the nation in assists with that usage rate without having elite vision. It's just not possible. I think Simmons is great but Lonzo is a better passer. |
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DoubleClutch
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 2712
Location: Town
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | Posted this by accident in the DLO thread.
Anyone else feel like, even if we get the #1, we're taking Ball? Feels like it's Magic's pick to make, and the home-grown UCLA kid that reminds him of himself (and if they make the title game, forget it) will be too much to pass up. I think this is our draft board:
1st: Ball
2nd: Ball
3rd: Whoever the Pacers want. |
Sadly yeah. I hope if we get #1 Magic will see how good Fultz is during his workout but I feel like the narrative behind Ball is going to win out. |
No need to be sad guys. The narrative won't win out, him being BPA will. |
The best tidbit of news that I heard when Magic took over was that they wanted to give Ryan West more say in draft and personnel moves. If that holds true I'm confident we will pick the best player on the board whenever we are up.
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BynumForThree
Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1254
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | Posted this by accident in the DLO thread.
Anyone else feel like, even if we get the #1, we're taking Ball? Feels like it's Magic's pick to make, and the home-grown UCLA kid that reminds him of himself (and if they make the title game, forget it) will be too much to pass up. I think this is our draft board:
1st: Ball
2nd: Ball
3rd: Whoever the Pacers want. |
Sadly yeah. I hope if we get #1 Magic will see how good Fultz is during his workout but I feel like the narrative behind Ball is going to win out. |
No need to be sad guys. The narrative won't win out, him being BPA will. |
I've never heard a "good" argument as to how Ball is a better player than Fultz. Everything I do hear is about him being a "winner" which I place as much value as I do to other arbitrary garbage such as "swagger", "clutch gene" and whatever else the talking heads at ESPN spout out. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| BynumForThree wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | Posted this by accident in the DLO thread.
Anyone else feel like, even if we get the #1, we're taking Ball? Feels like it's Magic's pick to make, and the home-grown UCLA kid that reminds him of himself (and if they make the title game, forget it) will be too much to pass up. I think this is our draft board:
1st: Ball
2nd: Ball
3rd: Whoever the Pacers want. |
Sadly yeah. I hope if we get #1 Magic will see how good Fultz is during his workout but I feel like the narrative behind Ball is going to win out. |
No need to be sad guys. The narrative won't win out, him being BPA will. |
I've never heard a "good" argument as to how Ball is a better player than Fultz. Everything I do hear is about him being a "winner" which I place as much value as I do to other arbitrary garbage such as "swagger", "clutch gene" and whatever else the talking heads at ESPN spout out. |
Then you aren't listening. I think Ball is the best prospect but I understand why some like Fultz more. Being ignorant doesn't make your argument better. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:53 am Post subject: |
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All this arguing about who is better...and we don't even know if we are getting a pick! Let's be nice until 5/16...then no holds barred thereafter. 
_________________
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Fracture
Star Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 9318
Location: Planet Terror
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| It's funny how being a winner doesn't matter now but it did last year when ppl wanted to (bleep) on Simmons |
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44TheLogo
Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| BynumForThree wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | Posted this by accident in the DLO thread.
Anyone else feel like, even if we get the #1, we're taking Ball? Feels like it's Magic's pick to make, and the home-grown UCLA kid that reminds him of himself (and if they make the title game, forget it) will be too much to pass up. I think this is our draft board:
1st: Ball
2nd: Ball
3rd: Whoever the Pacers want. |
Sadly yeah. I hope if we get #1 Magic will see how good Fultz is during his workout but I feel like the narrative behind Ball is going to win out. |
No need to be sad guys. The narrative won't win out, him being BPA will. |
I've never heard a "good" argument as to how Ball is a better player than Fultz. Everything I do hear is about him being a "winner" which I place as much value as I do to other arbitrary garbage such as "swagger", "clutch gene" and whatever else the talking heads at ESPN spout out. |
I don't necessarily think Ball is better than Fultz, but for the argument, here's a couple of statistical arguments:
https://twitter.com/T1m_NBA/status/841783111352492032
https://twitter.com/T1m_NBA/status/841783111352492032
to summarize, fultz is an elite PnR scorer, while Ball is a more efficient shooter in every other situation. on the other end, fultz measures out as a terrible defender while ball is quite good.
so there's essentially two elite prospects, and you have on one hand, an elite PnR ballhandler with defensive deficiencies, and on the other hand, an elite passer, above average shooter with NBA+ range, and above average defender. So it boils down to what you're looking for and how "elite" you think the player's "elite" traits are. I personally think of it as a choice between james harden and jason kidd (not saying either will meet the level of play that harden or kidd did, but that the relative strengths and weaknesses are similar). I can see someone preferring kidd, and I can see someone preferring harden. I personally lean harden but I'm not going to argue if you like kidd.
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44TheLogo
Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364
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Tony Anapolis
Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2015
Posts: 3331
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| BynumForThree wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | tox wrote: | | defense wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | noahp45 wrote: | I'm liking the idea of a
Ball
Waiters or Seth Curry
George
Randle
Big boy Moz |
Until you realize Ball is just like any other rookie we've had... meaning it will take time. While PG13 is an inefficient scorer, and a passive Kobe. 22 pts and he's had his own team for awhile, so nothing will change on the scoring front. 22 is lightweight for a "superstar" who might not make the all-star in the West either.
My comment is based on assuming that you've dealt Ingram and D'Lo for George? Terrible idea, hope this isn't what Magic and Pelinka are thinking. |
You really feel like George is inefficient?
.448
.383
.914
5 free throws a game |
57.4% TS% isn't bad at all, although in 2017 it's not great. Solidly above average. And it's not like his volume is that high.
Add in 3.3 assists per 36 to 3.0 turnovers and.... eh?
I feel like there's a big disparity in terms of how PG is perceived and how he actually plays, because he's so damn streaky and his hot streaks stick with you. |
The reason I think he's a a superstar is because he's a great defender. I don't mind a streaky player all that much if they bring it defensively every night and when he is playing well, he's arguably the best 2 way wing in the game. |
His defense has drastically dropped this year. The stats and eye test can attest to that. And best two-way wing? Did Kawhi Leonard retire yesterday or something? |
The whole league has changed defensively imo. Even Kawhi to a certain degree. Kawhi is the bar though. |
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Tony Anapolis
Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2015
Posts: 3331
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | | PG gets overrated on this board because he played well against Lebron in the playoffs in 2013, 2014. It's as simple as that. |
I disagree. It's because statistically he has been an elite defender his whole career and he is only 26. |
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44-25
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 447
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | Watching Lonzo highlights, and I can't help but feel his court vision is being highly overhyped much like DLo's was coming out. His passing is good, but not great or elite like Kidd/Magic or even Ben Simmons. People expecting that kind of floor leader will be disappointed in this kid. I think he can create opportunities within a system, similar to DLo. But guys like Magic and Kidd were the system. I don't see the comparison. Maybe I need to watch more film. |
You don't lead the nation in assists with that usage rate without having elite vision. It's just not possible. I think Simmons is great but Lonzo is a better passer. |
Simmons was lazy and non-engaged in college. He played for himself. We have no data yet on his NBA effectiveness.
Watching Lonzo in games his head is constantly in motion, just like Magic, and Kidd, he will find the open man. His shot is from the side, but it is super quick, his arm is straight in release and accurate. He should score more in the pros. How great he will be? Who knows. I hope the lotto brings us him or Fultz. |
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USCandLakers
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 19955
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | All this arguing about who is better...and we don't even know if we are getting a pick! Let's be nice until 5/16...then no holds barred thereafter. |
You say this every year.
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A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made.  Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
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USCandLakers
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 19955
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | Watching Lonzo highlights, and I can't help but feel his court vision is being highly overhyped much like DLo's was coming out. His passing is good, but not great or elite like Kidd/Magic or even Ben Simmons. People expecting that kind of floor leader will be disappointed in this kid. I think he can create opportunities within a system, similar to DLo. But guys like Magic and Kidd were the system. I don't see the comparison. Maybe I need to watch more film. |
You don't lead the nation in assists with that usage rate without having elite vision. It's just not possible. I think Simmons is great but Lonzo is a better passer. |
I don't know about that.
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A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
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leor_77
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 21920
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Watched his dad on First Take today...The guy is really entertaining. On the flip side, it seems like if his kid gets just a few less minutes, or shot attempts, you are going to be hearing about it all over the media the next day. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Interesting theory: the ball is affecting Ball?
| Quote: | "Ball might've experienced that adjustment this season: He's played 26 games with a Wilson ball (17 games at home, six games at a neutral site, and three on the road). In those matches, he shot 43.6 percent on 133 3-point attempts. In seven games playing with a Nike ball (all road games), he shot only 34.1 percent on 44 attempts."
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http://www.businessinsider.com/lonzo-ball-shot-basketball-brand-theory-2017-3
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44TheLogo
Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Interesting theory: the ball is affecting Ball?
| Quote: | "Ball might've experienced that adjustment this season: He's played 26 games with a Wilson ball (17 games at home, six games at a neutral site, and three on the road). In those matches, he shot 43.6 percent on 133 3-point attempts. In seven games playing with a Nike ball (all road games), he shot only 34.1 percent on 44 attempts."
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http://www.businessinsider.com/lonzo-ball-shot-basketball-brand-theory-2017-3 |
u should link to the original article on the ringer. very well written. i'm not sure that it's conclusive though because it's possible that the ball has the same effect on all players, not just lonzo. i know i personally shoot better with a wilson ball than with a spalding for example.
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substance over style |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Interesting theory: the ball is affecting Ball?
| Quote: | "Ball might've experienced that adjustment this season: He's played 26 games with a Wilson ball (17 games at home, six games at a neutral site, and three on the road). In those matches, he shot 43.6 percent on 133 3-point attempts. In seven games playing with a Nike ball (all road games), he shot only 34.1 percent on 44 attempts."
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http://www.businessinsider.com/lonzo-ball-shot-basketball-brand-theory-2017-3 |
u should link to the original article on the ringer. very well written. i'm not sure that it's conclusive though because it's possible that the ball has the same effect on all players, not just lonzo. i know i personally shoot better with a wilson ball than with a spalding for example. |
They will try to market Ball's ball.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Interesting theory: the ball is affecting Ball?
| Quote: | "Ball might've experienced that adjustment this season: He's played 26 games with a Wilson ball (17 games at home, six games at a neutral site, and three on the road). In those matches, he shot 43.6 percent on 133 3-point attempts. In seven games playing with a Nike ball (all road games), he shot only 34.1 percent on 44 attempts."
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http://www.businessinsider.com/lonzo-ball-shot-basketball-brand-theory-2017-3 |
u should link to the original article on the ringer. very well written. i'm not sure that it's conclusive though because it's possible that the ball has the same effect on all players, not just lonzo. i know i personally shoot better with a wilson ball than with a spalding for example. |
16% with Wilson and 11% with Spalding?  |
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44TheLogo
Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Interesting theory: the ball is affecting Ball?
| Quote: | "Ball might've experienced that adjustment this season: He's played 26 games with a Wilson ball (17 games at home, six games at a neutral site, and three on the road). In those matches, he shot 43.6 percent on 133 3-point attempts. In seven games playing with a Nike ball (all road games), he shot only 34.1 percent on 44 attempts."
|
http://www.businessinsider.com/lonzo-ball-shot-basketball-brand-theory-2017-3 |
u should link to the original article on the ringer. very well written. i'm not sure that it's conclusive though because it's possible that the ball has the same effect on all players, not just lonzo. i know i personally shoot better with a wilson ball than with a spalding for example. |
16% with Wilson and 11% with Spalding? |
100 and 99
it all has to do with grippiness, so it might be an issue that is dependent on hand size or finger length. feel like relative hand size is an increasingly significant "measurable" these days
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BynumForThree
Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1254
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | Posted this by accident in the DLO thread.
Anyone else feel like, even if we get the #1, we're taking Ball? Feels like it's Magic's pick to make, and the home-grown UCLA kid that reminds him of himself (and if they make the title game, forget it) will be too much to pass up. I think this is our draft board:
1st: Ball
2nd: Ball
3rd: Whoever the Pacers want. |
Sadly yeah. I hope if we get #1 Magic will see how good Fultz is during his workout but I feel like the narrative behind Ball is going to win out. |
No need to be sad guys. The narrative won't win out, him being BPA will. |
I've never heard a "good" argument as to how Ball is a better player than Fultz. Everything I do hear is about him being a "winner" which I place as much value as I do to other arbitrary garbage such as "swagger", "clutch gene" and whatever else the talking heads at ESPN spout out. |
I don't necessarily think Ball is better than Fultz, but for the argument, here's a couple of statistical arguments:
https://twitter.com/T1m_NBA/status/841783111352492032
https://twitter.com/T1m_NBA/status/841783111352492032
to summarize, fultz is an elite PnR scorer, while Ball is a more efficient shooter in every other situation. on the other end, fultz measures out as a terrible defender while ball is quite good.
so there's essentially two elite prospects, and you have on one hand, an elite PnR ballhandler with defensive deficiencies, and on the other hand, an elite passer, above average shooter with NBA+ range, and above average defender. So it boils down to what you're looking for and how "elite" you think the player's "elite" traits are. I personally think of it as a choice between james harden and jason kidd (not saying either will meet the level of play that harden or kidd did, but that the relative strengths and weaknesses are similar). I can see someone preferring kidd, and I can see someone preferring harden. I personally lean harden but I'm not going to argue if you like kidd. |
Except Fultz doesn't project to be a poor defender. In fact I expect Fultz to be a very good defender. As for his efficiency he's the lone option for his team. The amount of defensive pressure he demands is far more than what Lozno demands. One of those reasons is that Lonzo is surrounded by far superior talent. Fultz has very little holes in his game (free throw shooting and defensive consistency) while Ball has numerous holes in his game. I think it's that simple. |
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