2017 Lakers Draft Discussion Thread ** DRAFT DAY** (2: Ball, 27: Kuzma, 30: Hart and 42: Bryant )
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Who you got after Fultz?
Lonzo Ball
75%
 75%  [ 315 ]
Josh Jackson
15%
 15%  [ 64 ]
Jayson Tatum
1%
 1%  [ 8 ]
De'Aaron Fox
4%
 4%  [ 20 ]
Malik Monk
1%
 1%  [ 5 ]
Jonathan Isaac
0%
 0%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 416

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MickMgl
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
I know BPA is practically dogma when it comes to drafting, but does Lonzo's comparatively pedestrian athleticism make him a less than ideal fit here? Where our top two prospects are already guys with great "feel" but not as much as athleticism? I think Jackson's speed and agility would be more valued here than Lonzo's feel and smarts.


I'd take five guys with great feel and little athleticism over five guys with great athleticism and very little feel. Not that that's the choice here.

What Lonzo's got is harder to come by.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Some additional names to consider at #28:

Edmond Sumner, 6'6 PG Xavier, Jr - he'll be recovering from a recent ACL tear so he won't be available until next January, but he's been considered a mid- to late-1st round pick prior to the injury. He's declared and hired an agent. An explosive slasher adept at drawing FTs, Sumner is a big, athletic, scoring PG who needs to work on his jumper and on his shot selection. Not as effective on defense as he's physically capable of. DX: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQZ02fki5Sk

Jeremy Morgan, 6'5 SG Northern Iowa Sr - a dangerous deep shooter who struggled some his senior year with more creation responsibility, which he won't be asked to do at the pro level. He's a good, but not great athlete who has been a crafty, productive, high IQ defender in the MVC - it may be a question how he does against bigger, more athletic scorers. DX: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gmC_faVZDkg

Derrick White, 6'5 SG Colorado Sr - a former DII superstar who transferred up to Colorado and promptly made Pac-12 1st team, White is a very skilled scorer at all three levels who knows how to use screens, get to the line, and run some basic PnR action. He'll be 23 as a rookie and he's still a skinny dude who will have a tough time defending against NBA strength, and he's more smooth than explosive as an athlete. Highlights: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n5JeuyF760Q

Jacob Evans, 6'6 SG/SF Cincinnati So - Evans is a talented young 3&D prospect who is still undecided on whether or not to test the waters. He's got great strength and is an explosive finisher in transition and a straight line in the half-court. Evans' hit 42% of his 3s with 2.4 makes per40 this season. Not a guy you want to ask to create off the dribble, but he makes smart, simple passes and rarely turns it over. DX: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zwKcDa8sRiA


It's a crap shoot but I take Evans base on your info.

Thanks for your response. I like Evans, too, and bet he moves up draft boards if he declares. White, Sumner, and Morgan should all be available in the 2nd if the Lakers buy a pick or could go undrafted.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:

monk can create his own shot in the half court, which i consider to be creating? creation doesn't have to mean for others. i am basing a lot of the half court creation on kaiser lindeman's work on initiators. http://www.deepishthoughts.com/kaisers-draft-notes-initiators-predictive-indicators/

but yes, ball could be slotted into both as well. i do think fultz monk and ball are the top 3 prospects in any case.

Gotcha, though I don't think Lindeman's article parses out unassisted half-court from transition makes.

Those are my top three picks right now, as well.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject:

DoubleClutch wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
Vishnu wrote:


It's not my goal to go against Fultz or anyone else. I don't know who we'll draft and I don't want to have an opinion that might need validation later.

To be fair, I didn't respond either because there's not much to say without watching the games. "He could make more shots. Create more for others. better defense." I saw the schedule. It's not pretty. They lost to Yale at home. Even a lot of their wins against real bottom feeders aren't by big margins.

With all that said, I like Fultz. If Ball is gone I would take him. I just think it is fair to ask the question of why didn't he win more.


similarly, I think it's fair to ask the question of how much better Fultz' numbers would be with better talent around him and defenses not solely focused on shutting him down.

You mean like how Russell Westbrook's numbers were better when he had a more talented team around him? And how his numbers are down this year since defenses are solely focused on shutting him down? Oh wait...


i said it's a fair question to ask. if you think everyone is russell westbrook and can break the statistical trend of efficiency numbers going down as usage numbers go up, then sure, use russell as an example for why fultz numbers aren't affected by his usage. but then, you're saying he's an outlier like russell westbrook, so isn't that an argument for him?

oh wait...
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Some additional names to consider at #28:

Edmond Sumner, 6'6 PG Xavier, Jr - he'll be recovering from a recent ACL tear so he won't be available until next January, but he's been considered a mid- to late-1st round pick prior to the injury. He's declared and hired an agent. An explosive slasher adept at drawing FTs, Sumner is a big, athletic, scoring PG who needs to work on his jumper and on his shot selection. Not as effective on defense as he's physically capable of. DX: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQZ02fki5Sk



I liked Sumner a lot, but I am surprised he is coming out...think he was only a Sophomore....as you mentioned, cant shoot from distance.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject:

I remember when people said James Harden had "old man game." His highlights from the 2010 rookie-sophomore game look eerily similar to how D'Angelo plays.



D'Angelo is absolutely athletic enough to play at an All-Star level or better, and he'll get better as his body continues to develop. Lonzo Ball has deceptive athleticism and probably doesn't the credit he deserves for it. Don't think that will be a detriment to his game, either.


Last edited by AC Green's V-Card on Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:24 pm    Post subject:

AC Green's V-Card wrote:
I remember when people said James Harden had "old man game." His highlights from the 2010 rookie-sophomore game look eerily similar to how D'Angelo plays.



D'Angelo is absolutely athletic enough to play at an All-Star level or better, and he'll get better as his body continues to develop.


while I can see some similarities in terms of style and skill, harden is one of the strongest guards in the NBA. DLo will have to hit the weight room HARD to be able to drive into the paint the way Harden does.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Some additional names to consider at #28:

Edmond Sumner, 6'6 PG Xavier, Jr - he'll be recovering from a recent ACL tear so he won't be available until next January, but he's been considered a mid- to late-1st round pick prior to the injury. He's declared and hired an agent. An explosive slasher adept at drawing FTs, Sumner is a big, athletic, scoring PG who needs to work on his jumper and on his shot selection. Not as effective on defense as he's physically capable of. DX: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQZ02fki5Sk



I liked Sumner a lot, but I am surprised he is coming out...think he was only a Sophomore....as you mentioned, cant shoot from distance.

You're right, he's a redshirt sophomore after sitting out with knee issues when he first entered Xavier. He just turned 21.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject:

AC Green's V-Card wrote:
I remember when people said James Harden had "old man game." His highlights from the 2010 rookie-sophomore game look eerily similar to how D'Angelo plays.



D'Angelo is absolutely athletic enough to play at an All-Star level or better, and he'll get better as his body continues to develop. Lonzo Ball has deceptive athleticism and probably doesn't the credit he deserves for it. Don't think that will be a detriment to his game, either.


Harden is way more athletic than DLo. Even though he's not exerting himself in that vid, you can see it subtly.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
AC Green's V-Card wrote:
I remember when people said James Harden had "old man game." His highlights from the 2010 rookie-sophomore game look eerily similar to how D'Angelo plays.



D'Angelo is absolutely athletic enough to play at an All-Star level or better, and he'll get better as his body continues to develop.


while I can see some similarities in terms of style and skill, harden is one of the strongest guards in the NBA. DLo will have to hit the weight room HARD to be able to drive into the paint the way Harden does.


Right but Harden wasn't always that way. This is how he looked at D'Angelo's age: http://tinyurl.com/meomelq

Hitting the weights (and a few cycles of HGH) should help D'Angelo pack on the muscle.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Some additional names to consider at #28:

Edmond Sumner, 6'6 PG Xavier, Jr - he'll be recovering from a recent ACL tear so he won't be available until next January, but he's been considered a mid- to late-1st round pick prior to the injury. He's declared and hired an agent. An explosive slasher adept at drawing FTs, Sumner is a big, athletic, scoring PG who needs to work on his jumper and on his shot selection. Not as effective on defense as he's physically capable of. DX: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQZ02fki5Sk



I liked Sumner a lot, but I am surprised he is coming out...think he was only a Sophomore....as you mentioned, cant shoot from distance.

You're right, he's a redshirt sophomore after sitting out with knee issues when he first entered Xavier. He just turned 21.


at the same time, I just could not use a first round pick on him locking into a 3 year contract when I have been unable to seem him recovered at all....but if we could obtain an additional 2nd round pick
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
AC Green's V-Card wrote:
I remember when people said James Harden had "old man game." His highlights from the 2010 rookie-sophomore game look eerily similar to how D'Angelo plays.



D'Angelo is absolutely athletic enough to play at an All-Star level or better, and he'll get better as his body continues to develop. Lonzo Ball has deceptive athleticism and probably doesn't the credit he deserves for it. Don't think that will be a detriment to his game, either.


Harden is way more athletic than DLo. Even though he's not exerting himself in that vid, you can see it subtly.


He's absolutely more athletic than Russell, but his athleticism is not the principle reason for his success like Westbrook or Wall. He's a dead-eye shooter and a great passer. Everything else is gravy. For that reason, his game will age very well.


Last edited by AC Green's V-Card on Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject:

AC Green's V-Card wrote:
44TheLogo wrote:
AC Green's V-Card wrote:
I remember when people said James Harden had "old man game." His highlights from the 2010 rookie-sophomore game look eerily similar to how D'Angelo plays.



D'Angelo is absolutely athletic enough to play at an All-Star level or better, and he'll get better as his body continues to develop.


while I can see some similarities in terms of style and skill, harden is one of the strongest guards in the NBA. DLo will have to hit the weight room HARD to be able to drive into the paint the way Harden does.


Right but Harden wasn't always that way. This is how he looked at D'Angelo's age: http://tinyurl.com/meomelq

Hitting the weights (and a few cycles of HGH) should help D'Angelo pack on the muscle.


strength(bumping into ppl) also comes from explosion, which Harden has much more of than Dlo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Some additional names to consider at #28:

Edmond Sumner, 6'6 PG Xavier, Jr - he'll be recovering from a recent ACL tear so he won't be available until next January, but he's been considered a mid- to late-1st round pick prior to the injury. He's declared and hired an agent. An explosive slasher adept at drawing FTs, Sumner is a big, athletic, scoring PG who needs to work on his jumper and on his shot selection. Not as effective on defense as he's physically capable of. DX: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQZ02fki5Sk



I liked Sumner a lot, but I am surprised he is coming out...think he was only a Sophomore....as you mentioned, cant shoot from distance.

You're right, he's a redshirt sophomore after sitting out with knee issues when he first entered Xavier. He just turned 21.


at the same time, I just could not use a first round pick on him locking into a 3 year contract when I have been unable to seem him recovered at all....but if we could obtain an additional 2nd round pick


ya these guys seem more like 2nd round/summer league invites than players to use a 1st on. not because of their talent or anything but because of the perceived market value of the players. not worth using a pick on someone if you can get them in the 2nd or as a summer league invite
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject:

AC Green's V-Card wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
AC Green's V-Card wrote:
I remember when people said James Harden had "old man game." His highlights from the 2010 rookie-sophomore game look eerily similar to how D'Angelo plays.



D'Angelo is absolutely athletic enough to play at an All-Star level or better, and he'll get better as his body continues to develop. Lonzo Ball has deceptive athleticism and probably doesn't the credit he deserves for it. Don't think that will be a detriment to his game, either.


Harden is way more athletic than DLo. Even though he's not exerting himself in that vid, you can see it subtly.


He's absolutely more athletic than Russell, but his athleticism is not the principle reason for his success like Westbrook or Wall. He's a dead-eye shooter and a great passer. Everything else is gravy.


You're right it's not the principle but it helps. Russell's lesser athleticism caps his ceiling a decent amount below Harden (who is basically an MVP) , I'm ok with that.
He can still be 23/8 if all goes right
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
AC Green's V-Card wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
AC Green's V-Card wrote:
I remember when people said James Harden had "old man game." His highlights from the 2010 rookie-sophomore game look eerily similar to how D'Angelo plays.



D'Angelo is absolutely athletic enough to play at an All-Star level or better, and he'll get better as his body continues to develop. Lonzo Ball has deceptive athleticism and probably doesn't the credit he deserves for it. Don't think that will be a detriment to his game, either.


Harden is way more athletic than DLo. Even though he's not exerting himself in that vid, you can see it subtly.


He's absolutely more athletic than Russell, but his athleticism is not the principle reason for his success like Westbrook or Wall. He's a dead-eye shooter and a great passer. Everything else is gravy.


You're right it's not the principle but it helps. Russell's lesser athleticism caps his ceiling a decent amount below Harden (who is basically an MVP) , I'm ok with that.
He can still be 23/8 if all goes right


Psh, get him some BoingVert videos, and he'll be putting Zach LaVine to shame in the dunk contest next year.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Some additional names to consider at #28:

Edmond Sumner, 6'6 PG Xavier, Jr - he'll be recovering from a recent ACL tear so he won't be available until next January, but he's been considered a mid- to late-1st round pick prior to the injury. He's declared and hired an agent. An explosive slasher adept at drawing FTs, Sumner is a big, athletic, scoring PG who needs to work on his jumper and on his shot selection. Not as effective on defense as he's physically capable of. DX: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQZ02fki5Sk



I liked Sumner a lot, but I am surprised he is coming out...think he was only a Sophomore....as you mentioned, cant shoot from distance.

You're right, he's a redshirt sophomore after sitting out with knee issues when he first entered Xavier. He just turned 21.


at the same time, I just could not use a first round pick on him locking into a 3 year contract when I have been unable to seem him recovered at all....but if we could obtain an additional 2nd round pick


ya these guys seem more like 2nd round/summer league invites than players to use a 1st on. not because of their talent or anything but because of the perceived market value of the players. not worth using a pick on someone if you can get them in the 2nd or as a summer league invite

I'm just posting them for the draftnik cred. If only one of my fringe prospects come through, I will lord it over the 2018 and 2019 draft threads but good.

But in all seriousness, Evans is clearly a major 3&D prospect whenever he comes out and I'd take White and possibly Morgan over Wesley Iwundu.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject:

edit: [wrong thread...oops]
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject:

AC Green's V-Card wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
AC Green's V-Card wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
AC Green's V-Card wrote:
I remember when people said James Harden had "old man game." His highlights from the 2010 rookie-sophomore game look eerily similar to how D'Angelo plays.



D'Angelo is absolutely athletic enough to play at an All-Star level or better, and he'll get better as his body continues to develop. Lonzo Ball has deceptive athleticism and probably doesn't the credit he deserves for it. Don't think that will be a detriment to his game, either.


Harden is way more athletic than DLo. Even though he's not exerting himself in that vid, you can see it subtly.


He's absolutely more athletic than Russell, but his athleticism is not the principle reason for his success like Westbrook or Wall. He's a dead-eye shooter and a great passer. Everything else is gravy.


You're right it's not the principle but it helps. Russell's lesser athleticism caps his ceiling a decent amount below Harden (who is basically an MVP) , I'm ok with that.
He can still be 23/8 if all goes right


Psh, get him some BoingVert videos, and he'll be putting Zach LaVine to shame in the dunk contest next year.


lolll I actually think those might be legit. I see copious amounts of white boys dunking 360s on instagram
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:10 pm    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
adkindo wrote:
CRoost wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
Washington was crap but Ball's style of play is more conducive to his teammates playing better than Fultz. Same goes with any ball-dominant guard.

Ball's style of play is infectious. The whole team plays fast, unselfish, and quick decision-making. This is one of his big selling points that goes beyond what someone does individually.


I prefer Ball. Fultz will be better individidually but Ball will have more impact on a team.


yea, those intangible magical abilities of Ball that can never be proven or disproven......if Ball is taken over Fultz, I can see the GM getting fired so that is fairly impactful on a team


Same with Fultz. Fultz does not have elite athleticism so he's not a sure thing.




That might not be elite, but it's pretty darn close.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, Fultz is a really good athlete. I don't know where the idea that he isn't is coming from. He's not Wall/Westbrook or anything, but it definitely isn't a weakness.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Arbitrary wrote:
epak wrote:
Who are the top 3 again?


Fultz
Ball
Tatum


says zero reputable mocks or projections....

In alphabetical order

Ball
Fultz
Jackson


It was what has been discussed recently as per Mike (@) LG's posts. Obviously some people out here have different opinions about it.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:20 pm    Post subject:

Tony Anapolis wrote:
CRoost wrote:
adkindo wrote:
CRoost wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
Washington was crap but Ball's style of play is more conducive to his teammates playing better than Fultz. Same goes with any ball-dominant guard.

Ball's style of play is infectious. The whole team plays fast, unselfish, and quick decision-making. This is one of his big selling points that goes beyond what someone does individually.


I prefer Ball. Fultz will be better individidually but Ball will have more impact on a team.


yea, those intangible magical abilities of Ball that can never be proven or disproven......if Ball is taken over Fultz, I can see the GM getting fired so that is fairly impactful on a team


Same with Fultz. Fultz does not have elite athleticism so he's not a sure thing.




That might not be elite, but it's pretty darn close.


Above average by NBA standards. His skill set is what makes him intriguing but his 65% FT shooting leave a lot to be desired of.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Arbitrary wrote:
epak wrote:
Who are the top 3 again?


Fultz
Ball
Tatum


says zero reputable mocks or projections....

In alphabetical order

Ball
Fultz
Jackson


Who had Jaylen Brown mocked in the Top 3 last year?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Arbitrary wrote:
epak wrote:
Who are the top 3 again?


Fultz
Ball
Tatum


says zero reputable mocks or projections....

In alphabetical order

Ball
Fultz
Jackson


Who had Jaylen Brown mocked in the Top 3 last year?


Jaylen Brown (and his family)?
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