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| Who you got after Fultz? |
| Lonzo Ball |
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75% |
[ 315 ] |
| Josh Jackson |
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15% |
[ 64 ] |
| Jayson Tatum |
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1% |
[ 8 ] |
| De'Aaron Fox |
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4% |
[ 20 ] |
| Malik Monk |
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1% |
[ 5 ] |
| Jonathan Isaac |
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0% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 416 |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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 Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| When is Isaac jumping into the top 5? |
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LongTimeLurk
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Joined: 28 May 2017
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | LongTimeLurk wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | If we truly followed a Steph/Klay model, Markkanen, Monk, then arguably Tatum would go Top 5.
It isn't that way for a multitude of reasons. |
I understand what you're saying Mike but that statement was primarily meant for players that are truly being evaluated as top 3-5 talent. Although you're correct I didn't express it like that.
I'll use the Malik Monk, Fox comparison for example. It's obvious that Malik Monk is a better shooter than Fox. But outside of shooting I see Fox as a more dominant and impactful player. Yet I still see mocks where Monk who I see as not much different than Ben Gordon is listed ahead of Fox who even to to causal fans has to put you in mind of eventually becoming a John Wall level shooter (considering Walls initial struggles) while also matching his speed and most of Walls athleticism.
So I guess to clarify when comparing all the things that go into becoming a truly elite player sometimes we have be able to recognize potential greatness even if it's packaged in a below average shooter. The other supervisor qualities shouldn't go ignored. |
Here's what will make it crazy.
Guys like Curry and Klay Thompson don't fit the typical mold of franchise players, especially for guys taken from the draft.
One would think that either guy is an elite athlete, attacks the rim, plays defense at an extraordinarily high level, etc. Things of typical lottery picks.
Klay Thompson, simply put, wasn't supposed to be this good. Malik Monk right now looks way better than Klay out of his second year in Washington. Sure, Monk isn't 6'5.5"+, but he's definitely the better shooter, athlete, ball-handler, and multi-dimensional shooter. Klay Thompson, is self made.
Stephen Curry only played PG at Davidson his last year. He played SG in a PG body the rest of the time. It wasn't until he was able to double his assist average that he was in the lottery conversation. Even then, not the best athlete. No one cared about his defense. The guy, could just shoot. Another, self-made player.
To me, it's not necessarily about finding potential greatness. It shouldn't be so hard to look for it. The guys at the top of the draft, have standout talent.
It's the work ethic and developmental skill that separated Curry and Klay from the rest of their draft. |
I actually agree with you 100%, however we must no overlook that part where you mention the height difference between Monk and Clay. It's that height difference that allowed Clay to become an elite level 2 (Obviously combined with his eventually displayed work ethic). Those couple inches will turn Monk into an undersized 2 and we can pretty much agree that we don't see a bunch of undersized players at any position truly become elite dominating franchise changing level players. It's typically guys who are at or exceed the average size for their position that truly reach their hoped and team expected ceiling.
And above everything else your point about work ethic and dedication as being the true catalyst in overachieving slight or glaring knocks is 💯. But my question is why don't we truly evaluate players strengths and weakness while also interjecting our general sense of the depth of the players work ethic. I say general sense because for truly elite, franchise changing/superstar ceiling level players it's already visibly apparent that a kid wouldn't have the skill set he has without some degree of high caliber work ethic.
Natural talent provides speed and athleticism. But when you add high ball IQ, unselfishness, a genuine commitment to playing both sides of the ball when it's almost expected that elite players aren't always forced to play D or held accountable to play solid D. I mean where else to do create this perception of truly being able to judge a kids work ethic? |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Raijin wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Raijin wrote: |
To be fair we heard the same things of MKG |
He's with another shooting coach and changing his form, again. |
Is it really that hard to fix one's shot? |
just think how big of a deal it is for pro golfers to alter their swing.....I assume at that level its not as easy as it would seem. Dont get me wrong, I am like you and sometimes wonder why it is so hard. |
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Raijin
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 6576
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Raijin wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Raijin wrote: |
To be fair we heard the same things of MKG |
He's with another shooting coach and changing his form, again. |
Is it really that hard to fix one's shot? |
just think how big of a deal it is for pro golfers to alter their swing.....I assume at that level its not as easy as it would seem. Dont get me wrong, I am like you and sometimes wonder why it is so hard. |
That's definitely a perspective I haven't considered.
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vicman
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Raijin wrote: | | DangeRuss wrote: | | LongTimeLurk wrote: | Question for all.... Is Josh Jacksons's questionable jumper the only legit reason he's not at least the consensus #2 pick in this years class? I see comments about other facets of his game that are clearly untrue but it's become such a narrative that I question if guys actually look a game footage for themselves to truly evaluate a player or simply fall into (the easy and understandable) trap of simply repeating common narratives.
Josh Jackson IMO is clearly the most athletic player in the top 5.
Clearly the best two way player in the top 5 with a nod to Fox.
Clearly and by a mile shows the most Kobe/MJesq competitiveness.
The most likely to have a Kawai type impact if he reaches his ceiling
Outside of long rang outlet passing (ala Kevin Love) and a slightly better passer in general and by means a knock on Lonzo because I love his game but if we're being real and truly looking to draft the absolute best player to help take us back to where we're accustomed to being what skill does Lonzo posses that's truly better than Josh Jackson.
On Court Leadership?
Competitiveness?
Perimeter Shooting?
Half Court Impact?
Fast Break Impact?
Defense?
Strength?
Quickness?
Positional Versatility
ISO Ability?
Displays True On Court (not media clicks) Crowd Pleasing Excitment and Passion?
Now keep in mind also that Jackson was truly forced to play second and third fiddle to to Mason and other Kansa upper class men on the squad. Which he should have as a Freshman.
Please ponder! |
I honestly think if Jackson shot 70% from ft and like 2% higher from 3 he would be the top prospect in the draft. He's always been my favorite prospect. Just goes to show the margin of error and slim amount that separates top propsects. I have complete faith in Jackson gaining a steady jumper, reports are that he's one of the legit hardest working guys in the draft and after he altered his shooting form later in the season, his shooting prowess rivaled anyone of the top prospects |
To be fair we heard the same things of MKG |
He's with another shooting coach and changing his form, again. |
I am not worried about Jackson being mkg are you? If that is even possible I wouldn't draft him. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ MKG's stroke was irredeemable. It's not a fair comparison. |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Raijin wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Raijin wrote: |
To be fair we heard the same things of MKG |
He's with another shooting coach and changing his form, again. |
Is it really that hard to fix one's shot? |
Yes, especially when there are a lot of changes involved.
Shane Battier had a nice jumper out of Duke. Simple form. Still had a coach.
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LakerEric
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| romeo wrote: | | LakerEric wrote: | | Who is DSJ that is mentioned in this thread??? |
future knicks pg dennis smith jr |
Oh...thanks!
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | But my question is why don't we truly evaluate players strengths and weakness while also interjecting our general sense of the depth of the players work ethic. I say general sense because for truly elite, franchise changing/superstar ceiling level players it's already visibly apparent that a kid wouldn't have the skill set he has without some degree of high caliber work ethic.
Natural talent provides speed and athleticism. But when you add high ball IQ, unselfishness, a genuine commitment to playing both sides of the ball when it's almost expected that elite players aren't always forced to play D or held accountable to play solid D. I mean where else to do create this perception of truly being able to judge a kids work ethic? |
I try to. This is why I'm higher on guys like Tatum, Thomas Bryant, Semi Ojeleye and a few others that have had some reputation about being a self made player or other people raving about their work ethic.
Problem is, we can't scout their brain. Sasha was a machine in practice and didn't translate it to the floor. Stephen Curry learned to become an advanced ball-handler with actual shake 3+ years into the league, but had one transformative year at Davidson. Kobe was arguably the fastest I had ever seen adopt position spots on the floor with his pull up jumper... then Iso play... then post play... while sprinkled defense and playmaking in the middle of all of that. Same goes for Bynum.
Then I watch guys like Lonzo Ball. You can't teach that level of spatial awareness and instinctive passing.
But the ball-handling? Athleticism? Jumpshot? He has SF level ball-handling, mostly straight line drives and has trouble creating separation from defenders while attacking the hoop. Yet, guys like Tatum can do it with ease because of his footwork.
Athleticism? I think he's a 7/10 ot 8/10 athlete. Rarely see him finish powerfully at the rim, on ball, off the drive, especially in traffic. Seen this multiple times with Fultz, especially with his body control.
Jumpshot? It makes me sad that there's that much Russian twist into a jumpshot, and then there's guys like Markkanen at PF with simple, compact forms.
This is exactly why he's one of the riskiest guys in the draft. So much to work on. But, such an elite level passing skill.
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Sun May 28, 2017 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Andre2K
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Watching Lonzo, Simmons, Embiid and our next year's pick run laps around the league would give me nightmares, I think I'd sleep better at night watching them trying to sort out their potential spacing issues with Jackson or Fox. The front office shouldn't overthink this, draft Lonzo.
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17674
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | But my question is why don't we truly evaluate players strengths and weakness while also interjecting our general sense of the depth of the players work ethic. I say general sense because for truly elite, franchise changing/superstar ceiling level players it's already visibly apparent that a kid wouldn't have the skill set he has without some degree of high caliber work ethic.
Natural talent provides speed and athleticism. But when you add high ball IQ, unselfishness, a genuine commitment to playing both sides of the ball when it's almost expected that elite players aren't always forced to play D or held accountable to play solid D. I mean where else to do create this perception of truly being able to judge a kids work ethic? |
I try to. This is why I'm higher on guys like Tatum, Thomas Bryant, Semi Ojeleye and a few others that have had some reputation about being a self made player or other people raving about their work ethic.
Problem is, we can't scout their brain. Sasha was a machine in practice and didn't translate it to the floor. Stephen Curry learned to become an advanced ball-handler with actual shake 3+ years into the league, but had one transformative year at Davidson. Kobe was arguably the fastest I had ever seen adopt position spots on the floor with his pull up jumper... then Iso play... then post play... while sprinkled defense and playmaking in the middle of all of that. Same goes for Bynum.
Then I watch guys like Lonzo Ball. You can't teach that level of spatial awareness and instinctive passing.
But the ball-handling? Athleticism? Jumpshot? He has SF level ball-handling, mostly straight line drives and has trouble creating separation from defenders while attacking the hoop. Yet, guys like Tatum can do it with ease because of his footwork.
Athleticism? I think he's a 7/10 ot 8/10 athlete. Rarely see him finish powerfully at the rim, on ball, off the drive, especially in traffic. Seen this multiple times with Fultz, especially with his body control.
Jumpshot? It makes me sad that there's that much Russian twist into a jumpshot, and then there's guys like Markkanen at PF with simple, compact forms.
This is exactly why he's one of the riskiest guys in the draft. So much to work on. But, such an elite level passing skill. |
Too much to risk IMO with the 2nd pick.
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epak
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Andre2K wrote: | Watching Lonzo, Simmons, Embiid and our next year's pick run laps around the league would give me nightmares, I think I'd sleep better at night watching them trying to sort out their potential spacing issues with Jackson or Fox. The front office shouldn't overthink this, draft Lonzo.
Top NCAA Freshmen Total Points Added (TPA) Scores |
Does it make sense for Philly to draft Monk? Or trade down for him? |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| vicman wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | epak wrote: | #28? Bell and Bam.
If so, I think one of Larry or Julius is traded at the deadline.
Most likely Julius as his pay day is coming up. |
So a guy who will likely spend a good amount of time in the G League will make us want to trade an established player? Doubtful. I still think there is a better chance we trade that pick than keep it. I would rather trade it for a later 2018 first. |
This is a really deep draft, I'd rather use it. We can get a really good player with that pick.
Granted, a 2018 first would be a better bargaining chip for potential trades. |
We need players
That is what I was thinking of, potential trades. A 20-25 pick in next year's draft likely has more value than who we would draft at 28 this year. |
We need players badly why give up a good draft unless it is to move salary |
The words "we need players" were not in the post you quoted. And we would be adding talent using the 2018 first rounder in a trade. An NBA guy, not someone to spend part of the season in the G League.
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Mike@LG
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Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | But my question is why don't we truly evaluate players strengths and weakness while also interjecting our general sense of the depth of the players work ethic. I say general sense because for truly elite, franchise changing/superstar ceiling level players it's already visibly apparent that a kid wouldn't have the skill set he has without some degree of high caliber work ethic.
Natural talent provides speed and athleticism. But when you add high ball IQ, unselfishness, a genuine commitment to playing both sides of the ball when it's almost expected that elite players aren't always forced to play D or held accountable to play solid D. I mean where else to do create this perception of truly being able to judge a kids work ethic? |
I try to. This is why I'm higher on guys like Tatum, Thomas Bryant, Semi Ojeleye and a few others that have had some reputation about being a self made player or other people raving about their work ethic.
Problem is, we can't scout their brain. Sasha was a machine in practice and didn't translate it to the floor. Stephen Curry learned to become an advanced ball-handler with actual shake 3+ years into the league, but had one transformative year at Davidson. Kobe was arguably the fastest I had ever seen adopt position spots on the floor with his pull up jumper... then Iso play... then post play... while sprinkled defense and playmaking in the middle of all of that. Same goes for Bynum.
Then I watch guys like Lonzo Ball. You can't teach that level of spatial awareness and instinctive passing.
But the ball-handling? Athleticism? Jumpshot? He has SF level ball-handling, mostly straight line drives and has trouble creating separation from defenders while attacking the hoop. Yet, guys like Tatum can do it with ease because of his footwork.
Athleticism? I think he's a 7/10 ot 8/10 athlete. Rarely see him finish powerfully at the rim, on ball, off the drive, especially in traffic. Seen this multiple times with Fultz, especially with his body control.
Jumpshot? It makes me sad that there's that much Russian twist into a jumpshot, and then there's guys like Markkanen at PF with simple, compact forms.
This is exactly why he's one of the riskiest guys in the draft. So much to work on. But, such an elite level passing skill. |
Too much to risk IMO with the 2nd pick. |
Even Sidney Moncrief was an elite defender with a better jumpshot.
But we saw what happened when Magic stepped onto the floor.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| vicman wrote: | | I am willing to place a bet that 5 years from now we are looking at Jackson as the top overall player even though Ball might put better numbers in his rookie season |
I would be fine with either
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vicman
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Posts: 2379
Location: Arcadia
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | vicman wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | epak wrote: | #28? Bell and Bam.
If so, I think one of Larry or Julius is traded at the deadline.
Most likely Julius as his pay day is coming up. |
So a guy who will likely spend a good amount of time in the G League will make us want to trade an established player? Doubtful. I still think there is a better chance we trade that pick than keep it. I would rather trade it for a later 2018 first. |
This is a really deep draft, I'd rather use it. We can get a really good player with that pick.
Granted, a 2018 first would be a better bargaining chip for potential trades. |
We need players
That is what I was thinking of, potential trades. A 20-25 pick in next year's draft likely has more value than who we would draft at 28 this year. |
We need players badly why give up a good draft unless it is to move salary |
The words "we need players" were not in the post you quoted. And we would be adding talent using the 2018 first rounder in a trade. An NBA guy, not someone to spend part of the season in the G League. |
I don't know why you say we can't get an NBA player at 28 this draft is stacked |
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Andre2K
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 12199
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Andre2K wrote: | Watching Lonzo, Simmons, Embiid and our next year's pick run laps around the league would give me nightmares, I think I'd sleep better at night watching them trying to sort out their potential spacing issues with Jackson or Fox. The front office shouldn't overthink this, draft Lonzo.
Top NCAA Freshmen Total Points Added (TPA) Scores |
Does it make sense for Philly to draft Monk? Or trade down for him? |
If Hinkie was still there then I have no doubts in my mind that they'd go BPA and draft Jackson. However with Colangelo Jr, I think he'd try to be creative and trade down or draft Fox. I'd be surprised if they draft Monk at 3.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| vicman wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | vicman wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | epak wrote: | #28? Bell and Bam.
If so, I think one of Larry or Julius is traded at the deadline.
Most likely Julius as his pay day is coming up. |
So a guy who will likely spend a good amount of time in the G League will make us want to trade an established player? Doubtful. I still think there is a better chance we trade that pick than keep it. I would rather trade it for a later 2018 first. |
This is a really deep draft, I'd rather use it. We can get a really good player with that pick.
Granted, a 2018 first would be a better bargaining chip for potential trades. |
We need players
That is what I was thinking of, potential trades. A 20-25 pick in next year's draft likely has more value than who we would draft at 28 this year. |
We need players badly why give up a good draft unless it is to move salary |
The words "we need players" were not in the post you quoted. And we would be adding talent using the 2018 first rounder in a trade. An NBA guy, not someone to spend part of the season in the G League. |
I don't know why you say we can't get an NBA player at 28 this draft is stacked |
.
So we run a 10- man rotation? That is tanking talk. Zubac and Clarkson spent time in the DL, it was a way for them to get reps. It didn't mean they weren't NBA players. My idea is to trade youth for a vet.
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Last edited by venturalakersfan on Sun May 28, 2017 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Andre2K wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Andre2K wrote: | Watching Lonzo, Simmons, Embiid and our next year's pick run laps around the league would give me nightmares, I think I'd sleep better at night watching them trying to sort out their potential spacing issues with Jackson or Fox. The front office shouldn't overthink this, draft Lonzo.
Top NCAA Freshmen Total Points Added (TPA) Scores |
Does it make sense for Philly to draft Monk? Or trade down for him? |
If Hinkie was still there then I have no doubts in my mind that they'd go BPA and draft Jackson. However with Colangelo Jr, I think he'd try to be creative and trade down or draft Fox. I'd be surprised if they draft Monk at 3. |
If I'm Philly, I just get Monk anyway. Just give him a 3 and D role.
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | vicman wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | vicman wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | epak wrote: | #28? Bell and Bam.
If so, I think one of Larry or Julius is traded at the deadline.
Most likely Julius as his pay day is coming up. |
So a guy who will likely spend a good amount of time in the G League will make us want to trade an established player? Doubtful. I still think there is a better chance we trade that pick than keep it. I would rather trade it for a later 2018 first. |
This is a really deep draft, I'd rather use it. We can get a really good player with that pick.
Granted, a 2018 first would be a better bargaining chip for potential trades. |
We need players
That is what I was thinking of, potential trades. A 20-25 pick in next year's draft likely has more value than who we would draft at 28 this year. |
We need players badly why give up a good draft unless it is to move salary |
The words "we need players" were not in the post you quoted. And we would be adding talent using the 2018 first rounder in a trade. An NBA guy, not someone to spend part of the season in the G League. |
I don't know why you say we can't get an NBA player at 28 this draft is stacked |
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So we run a 10- man rotation? That is tanking talk. Zubac and Clarkson spent time in the DL, it was a way for them to get reps. It didn't mean they weren't NBA players. My idea is to trade youth for a vet. |
I don't know man. GSW and San Antonio go deep into their rosters.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | vicman wrote: | | I am willing to place a bet that 5 years from now we are looking at Jackson as the top overall player even though Ball might put better numbers in his rookie season |
I would be fine with either |
It's very simple, if we decide between Jackson and Ball the 1 thing we must evaluate is who can come in and make a immediate Impact hearing stuff on both players it seems like either 1 of Ball or Jackson can come in and make a Impact on our team but considering Magic's love for PGs and especially 1 who can elevate players to play at a high level, we can easily see who the pick is gonna be. |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | But my question is why don't we truly evaluate players strengths and weakness while also interjecting our general sense of the depth of the players work ethic. I say general sense because for truly elite, franchise changing/superstar ceiling level players it's already visibly apparent that a kid wouldn't have the skill set he has without some degree of high caliber work ethic.
Natural talent provides speed and athleticism. But when you add high ball IQ, unselfishness, a genuine commitment to playing both sides of the ball when it's almost expected that elite players aren't always forced to play D or held accountable to play solid D. I mean where else to do create this perception of truly being able to judge a kids work ethic? |
I try to. This is why I'm higher on guys like Tatum, Thomas Bryant, Semi Ojeleye and a few others that have had some reputation about being a self made player or other people raving about their work ethic.
Problem is, we can't scout their brain. Sasha was a machine in practice and didn't translate it to the floor. Stephen Curry learned to become an advanced ball-handler with actual shake 3+ years into the league, but had one transformative year at Davidson. Kobe was arguably the fastest I had ever seen adopt position spots on the floor with his pull up jumper... then Iso play... then post play... while sprinkled defense and playmaking in the middle of all of that. Same goes for Bynum.
Then I watch guys like Lonzo Ball. You can't teach that level of spatial awareness and instinctive passing.
But the ball-handling? Athleticism? Jumpshot? He has SF level ball-handling, mostly straight line drives and has trouble creating separation from defenders while attacking the hoop. Yet, guys like Tatum can do it with ease because of his footwork.
Athleticism? I think he's a 7/10 ot 8/10 athlete. Rarely see him finish powerfully at the rim, on ball, off the drive, especially in traffic. Seen this multiple times with Fultz, especially with his body control.
Jumpshot? It makes me sad that there's that much Russian twist into a jumpshot, and then there's guys like Markkanen at PF with simple, compact forms.
This is exactly why he's one of the riskiest guys in the draft. So much to work on. But, such an elite level passing skill. |
I just don't see how he doesn't have an above average handle for a SG his age.
Klay, Monk, G.Harris, D. Green, Derozen, Bazemore, Bradley, J. Richardson, Shump, Reddick, Cj Miles, Hield, Wes Mathews, KCP, Belleneli, Lavine at same age(not close)
Most SGs at 18 cannot be a lead ball handler of a sweet 16 team. It's way abv average for a SG at his age.
Last edited by KeepItRealOrElse on Sun May 28, 2017 9:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Andre2K
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Andre2K wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Andre2K wrote: | Watching Lonzo, Simmons, Embiid and our next year's pick run laps around the league would give me nightmares, I think I'd sleep better at night watching them trying to sort out their potential spacing issues with Jackson or Fox. The front office shouldn't overthink this, draft Lonzo.
Top NCAA Freshmen Total Points Added (TPA) Scores |
Does it make sense for Philly to draft Monk? Or trade down for him? |
If Hinkie was still there then I have no doubts in my mind that they'd go BPA and draft Jackson. However with Colangelo Jr, I think he'd try to be creative and trade down or draft Fox. I'd be surprised if they draft Monk at 3. |
If I'm Philly, I just get Monk anyway. Just give him a 3 and D role. |
Yeah it makes sense for them, especially if they plan on running Simmons at the point. I'm not sure they want to go into next season having to depend on T.J. McConnell again if Simmons isn't healthy enough to go. There's been so much buzz about Fox now that I think it would be hard for them to pass up unless its just noise.
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Mike@LG
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Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | But my question is why don't we truly evaluate players strengths and weakness while also interjecting our general sense of the depth of the players work ethic. I say general sense because for truly elite, franchise changing/superstar ceiling level players it's already visibly apparent that a kid wouldn't have the skill set he has without some degree of high caliber work ethic.
Natural talent provides speed and athleticism. But when you add high ball IQ, unselfishness, a genuine commitment to playing both sides of the ball when it's almost expected that elite players aren't always forced to play D or held accountable to play solid D. I mean where else to do create this perception of truly being able to judge a kids work ethic? |
I try to. This is why I'm higher on guys like Tatum, Thomas Bryant, Semi Ojeleye and a few others that have had some reputation about being a self made player or other people raving about their work ethic.
Problem is, we can't scout their brain. Sasha was a machine in practice and didn't translate it to the floor. Stephen Curry learned to become an advanced ball-handler with actual shake 3+ years into the league, but had one transformative year at Davidson. Kobe was arguably the fastest I had ever seen adopt position spots on the floor with his pull up jumper... then Iso play... then post play... while sprinkled defense and playmaking in the middle of all of that. Same goes for Bynum.
Then I watch guys like Lonzo Ball. You can't teach that level of spatial awareness and instinctive passing.
But the ball-handling? Athleticism? Jumpshot? He has SF level ball-handling, mostly straight line drives and has trouble creating separation from defenders while attacking the hoop. Yet, guys like Tatum can do it with ease because of his footwork.
Athleticism? I think he's a 7/10 ot 8/10 athlete. Rarely see him finish powerfully at the rim, on ball, off the drive, especially in traffic. Seen this multiple times with Fultz, especially with his body control.
Jumpshot? It makes me sad that there's that much Russian twist into a jumpshot, and then there's guys like Markkanen at PF with simple, compact forms.
This is exactly why he's one of the riskiest guys in the draft. So much to work on. But, such an elite level passing skill. |
I just don't see how he doesn't have an above average handle for a SG his age.
Klay, Monk, G.Harris, D. Green, Derozen, Bazemore, Bradley, J. Richardson, Shump, Reddick, Cj Miles, Hield, Wes Mathews, KCP, Belleneli, Lavine at same age(not close)
Most SGs at 18 cannot be a lead ball handler of a sweet 16 team. It's way abv average for a SG at his age. |
I call it SF level, because it's the same crossovers, at the beginning of a drive, and then a straight line. He may protect the ball better, but attacking the hoop?
There are SGs that don't play PG, and have a bit more wiggle, and it shows when getting into their own shot. Nick Young is a straight line driver, but he has dribble combination moves to get into his pull up J.
We never really see Lonzo play PnR, change directions on the first defender, get to a specific spot, then, change direction on the help defender and burn the guy to the cup.
Instead, he settles to allow their defensive switch, and then settles again with a 30' step back J.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Klay, Monk, G.Harris, D. Green, Derozen, Bazemore, Bradley, J. Richardson, Shump, Reddick, Cj Miles, Hield, Wes Mathews, KCP, Belleneli, Lavine at same age(not close)
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None of these guys are great playmakers. They too, have rudimentary ball-handling when attacking the hoop. Most of these guys are 3 and D.
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