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Who you got after Fultz? |
Lonzo Ball |
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75% |
[ 315 ] |
Josh Jackson |
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15% |
[ 64 ] |
Jayson Tatum |
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1% |
[ 8 ] |
De'Aaron Fox |
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4% |
[ 20 ] |
Malik Monk |
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1% |
[ 5 ] |
Jonathan Isaac |
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0% |
[ 4 ] |
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Total Votes : 416 |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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AC Green's V-Card wrote: |
Does anyone actually care about PER in 2017 besides ESPN and John Hollinger? How about Win Shares, RPM, and ORtg? |
You have to understand what one stat is about.
I don't find PER a good stat to show how a player can impact a game, but it is useful to judge how efficient a player is doing his thing. |
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PayasoLoco Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2001 Posts: 16663
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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In one night we turned our franchise from Young guys obsessed with Hollywood into a team full of high character basketball loving guys |
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Jellojigglin Star Player
Joined: 18 May 2001 Posts: 1548 Location: Venice, California
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25624
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GonzagaAlum Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 3021
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | I still wanna know if Fultz "murdered" his workout or not.
Was Fultz really number 1 on their board or not? |
This was the most obvious of all the fake reports the front office gave. There was literally zero reason at the time Fultz was reported to have murdered the workout... to announce that at #2... if you REALLY wanted the guy at that point. _________________ How can I get a copy of a Laker game played on Sunday, March 11, 2001 Sonics/Lakers? If you know PM me please
I would be willing to pay you for it. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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He actually didn't find out he was a Laker until he was in the back |
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LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Should have traded Russell/Mozgov to the Bulls for Wade/#16. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Twitter: @DeleteThisPost |
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DrDent Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jun 2016 Posts: 12975
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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CervantesRises wrote: | epak wrote: | Are we happy, fam? | |
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Laker_Jocker Star Player
Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2799
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Lol I just realized that both dudes in the leaked video are no longer Lakers and all of the incoming dudes seem real humble and focused on winning.
Theres a new sheriff in town and his name is Reggie Hammond, yall be cool.... |
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shortodom Star Player
Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 5332
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Probably nothing but when Bres interviewed Luke he said we're a bit short on guards cause "some moves". Then Luke said "well we cant talk about the moves right now". We only made one move so far that sent only one guard out. But like I said probably nothing. |
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JeezyXVII Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2014 Posts: 1835
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | Should have traded Russell/Mozgov to the Bulls for Wade/#16. |
Why are people so obsessed with a 35/36 year old shooting guard ?? |
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AC Green's V-Card Star Player
Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Posts: 3063
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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nash wrote: | AC Green's V-Card wrote: |
Does anyone actually care about PER in 2017 besides ESPN and John Hollinger? How about Win Shares, RPM, and ORtg? |
You have to understand what one stat is about.
I don't find PER a good stat to show how a player can impact a game, but it is useful to judge how efficient a player is doing his thing. |
Agreed. PER just has a lot of drawbacks based on how it's calculated. Enes Kanter finished 18th in PER this past year while Paul George finished 41st. Enes had to be hidden on the bench because of how horrific his defense was. |
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Jellojigglin Star Player
Joined: 18 May 2001 Posts: 1548 Location: Venice, California
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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acer77 wrote: | Ball A+
Kuzma C-
Hart D-
Bryant C+ | I think you need to watch more Pac 12 basketball. You will be a fan of his next season mark my words. _________________ "Bobbin' and weavin' and let the good get even" |
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DrDent Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jun 2016 Posts: 12975
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | I still wanna know if Fultz "murdered" his workout or not.
Was Fultz really number 1 on their board or not? |
I really doubt it.
Chase.button posted a link over in the Paul George trade thread for the Pelinka press conference:
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1lPJqyLQEVLJb
Regarding the players we drafted, Pelinka basically said this (my quick quick summary):
Lonzo: Called him transcedent. Wanted a player where Ball didnt stop moving. They became sold on Lonzo after spending last Friday with his family.
Kuzma: Scouting him past 2 years. Defensive player of the year in his conference. Two way player. Can guard several positions. A luke type of player.
Hart: Mental toughness. Defensive toughness. Can hit the three. Can hit big shots. Disciplined. Expect him to be a leader for the younger guys.
Bryant: Stretch 5. Rim protector. Can run the floor. In excellent shape, could run guard drills. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | Should have traded Russell/Mozgov to the Bulls for Wade/#16. |
Assuming Chicago would have done that.
That Mozgov attachment made things a bit harder right? |
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Chase.button07 Star Player
Joined: 19 Feb 2017 Posts: 4996
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | Should have traded Russell/Mozgov to the Bulls for Wade/#16. |
We have to just accept that DLO just didn't had that much value. We couldn't get 22 from the same team _________________ Now Playing: The Zo Show @Staples |
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TooMuchMajicBuss Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21064 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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KeepItRealOrElse wrote: |
He actually didn't find out he was a Laker until he was in the back |
I think he's talking about Rob and Magic making comments to each other from the sidelines at the conclusion of the workout. |
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jorkerjork Starting Rotation
Joined: 09 Feb 2014 Posts: 535
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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I really like the Ball and Hart picks; Ball and Hart are plus offensive and defensive impact players for wing positions, and that's what really matters at the end. Plus, both shot over 40% from deep (although based on Ball's on assisted shots rate and foul shooting, I have his projected shooting a smidge below average in the NBA). Both Ball and Hart can also really steal the basketball despite perceived athleticism slights (Ball actually has the Shaun Livingston off-ball cut dunk thing going; I hope we put back to good use), and Hart really goes after dboards as well. Hart's general offense is light green, but the most impressive thing about the dude is he doesn't have any major weaknesses (even his athleticism is a smidge below average only). In my metrics, Jae Crowder and James Harden were within his top 10 comparisons, actually (but I had him 27th overall in this draft). Those are top notch picks.
I also like how we broke the 28th picks into the 30th and 42nd picks--I knew this FO was incredibly proactive after we worked out 99 guys, and it was clear they wanted more (I did project this to be a deep draft up until the first 45 picks or so). We actually got more value by trading Tony Bradley (a deceptive analytics darling who doesn't stand out in any one thing whatwsoever) for guys who rated better than him in Josh Hart and Thomas Bryant. Sly move for sure, and I liked that.
To Thomas Bryant--I had him 29th in this draft. Solid pickup. He's just got a light green skill polish (handles, vision, shooting, gravity) and has a 7'5" wingspan which he uses in more slightly green steals and blocks. He doesn't excel in anything in particular, but there's enough interesting things here. He's just an OK athlete and prefers to play inside more than most bigs, but my biggest quibble is, to make up for the Brook Lopez god-awful rebounding, is that this dude doesn't d-board well either. But other than that, for the 42nd pick, definitely enough of a skillset here, with that intriguing wingspan. Surprised some didn't like him as much. I do feel there were guys we could have had here--Ike Anigbogu and Isaiah Hartenstein were projected mid-1st rounders for me--but Bryant is alright.
The worst pick here was Kyle Kuzma. I have 146 names I put in my draft model...and Kuzma ranked 145th. Eek. The swing category for Kuzma is his shooting--but he whiffs. Even for a big, I project him to be a very poor shooter--dude only hits 32% of his threes and 66% of his foul shots, and his numbers were worse in his prior two seasons! I just think Kuzma lacks major toughness and athleticism--he's a complete non-entity for a shotblocker despite standing 6'9", doesn't really steal the ball, and wasn't much of a dunker in college (in fact, really bad for a big). He's tantalizing on the surface because for his size, he has excellent ballhandling ability and court vision and defensive rebounding chops, but all that goes to moot if you can't shoot. Randle has a similar baseline of handles-vision-rebounding and no steals-blocks. We don't need more of that, honestly. How the sam hill did we not pick Jordan Bell here?
An A+ draft would have been Ball-Bell-Hart-Hartenstein or Anigbogu. That would have been amazing. And we had chances on all of them.
As it is: Ball (A+)/ Kuzma (F)/ Hart (A)/ Bryant (A-). Three out of four isn't particularly bad, and credit for splitting the second draft pick as well. So I'd say this was a A range draft for sure. |
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foshowtime Star Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2012 Posts: 4448
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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CervantesRises wrote: | foshowtime wrote: | AY2043 wrote: | CervantesRises wrote: | Am I cray cray or is Maginka, Jesse, and Ryan crushing it? |
I utterly despise the DLO trade even more now that we're probably not getting PG.
That said, they're doing a fantastic job this draft. |
I look at it like this:
Hart and 42 for Lou : Great Job
Kuzma and Cap for DLO : have to see |
Kuzma and Cap to sign PG & Another max player for DLo...DLo ain't worth Kuzma, PG, and a Cousins...Magic won that trade imo...
We went from potentially having zero picks to having 4...I think we'll find a way to make up DLo's 16ppg and 4 assists with our increase in pace alone. |
As I said, we will have to see. Maybe the capspace and Kuzma is worth it. But remember, we would have had capspace for 1 Max anyway. So the Jury is still out _________________ Llluuukkkeee |
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pokoy Moderator
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 14545
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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We passed on Jordan Bell twice after the #2 pick? Am I missing something here? |
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augus7 Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 May 2016 Posts: 904
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: |
He actually didn't find out he was a Laker until he was in the back |
I think he's talking about Rob and Magic making comments to each other from the sidelines at the conclusion of the workout. |
wow, they worked out both bigs and guards the same way huh. |
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LaxT Star Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2002 Posts: 2536
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PICKnPOP Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 5356
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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My only guess is that the laker think Kuzma is a sf. No way in hell this guy can compete for minutes against nance and randle. Don't get me wrong, the kid is good, but if Jules is shooting 3's at a respectable rate then kuzma doesn't bring anything to the table that randle can't.
Larry + hart are basically our defensive specialist. Two college Dpoys, 4 yet players, high character, solid. Kuzma has to be a wing imo |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Very early thoughts on winners/losers (not comprehensive):
Big winners:
Minnesota - incredibly lopsided trade for Butler that still allowed them to take one of the best high upside bigs in the draft was brilliant. If they can sign a vet PF with a jumper, they could not only be a playoff team, but make some noise there. Dunn was a low-upside pick in a weak draft and they needed to move one of Lavine or Wiggins for a two-way wing and boy did they get a good one.
Sixers - not only did they get Fultz, but they got a number of my favorites at #28 in the 2nd round. I would've held onto Evans if I were them, but Bolden and Brown with Pasecniks and Lessort to stash is great value and asset management.
Mavs - just chilled out and got a potential multiple All-Star point guard at #9. Easy.
Regular winners:
Suns - despite what adkindo might think, I do like Josh Jackson, and he's in a great situation where he can start early (sorry, TJ Warren) and won't be burdened early on with much more than defending, hustling, and getting out in transition. I would've had Reed higher, but he and Peters both have nice role-player upside as shooters off the bench.
Lakers - getting Ball is the big win, but the trade down from 28 to pick up #42 and get Josh Hart is low key the best deal the young front office has made so far. I liked Bolden at #27 over Kuzma who doesn't have much multi-positional or defensive upside, and Bryant is a reasonable long-term gamble. The Ball and Hart selections make this draft a win for the Lakers.
Jazz - I love the move up for Mitchell who has Avery Bradley potential. And even if I don't love Tony Bradley, there must be something to those analytics.
Solid:
Portland - ballsy move up to #10 to take a potential star unicorn big. I wouldn't be surprised if Collins becomes the Myles Turner of this draft, although Stotts probably will misuse him for a bit at PF to start his career. I love Swanigan the young man, but I hate his feet, and I don't like him as a guaranteed contract on a team that should give all of its C minutes to Nurkic and Collins.
Spurs - if White wasn't 23, I would predict him to be the draft steal of 2017. But even with lower upside, I really like his floor and his fit in San Antonio - he's like bizarro Clarkson. And he might even have a chance to defend learning under Pop.
Charlotte - I think Monk landed in a tough spot next to another undersized, ball dominant guard, but the Hornets took a guy with star upside at #11. Great value, and only their trade from #31 back for Dwayne Bacon (ugh) lowers their "grade."
Clippers - I hate to put them here, especially since Rivers' disastrous management continually leaves them without draft picks, but I love them picking up Evans for cash. Despite his size, the kid is a PnR monster who gets to the rim a ton - if he was a couple inches taller, he would've been a lottery pick.
Toronto - Anunoby could be the best defender in this draft. He could also be unplayable offensively. But if he can become competent as a shooter, he could be a true difference maker for the Raptors. Another smart gamble by Ujiri.
Less than winners/more than losers:
Sacramento - I'm not a big fan of any of their 1st round picks except Giles if he's healthy, but I admire Vlade's willingness to move back to pick up assets. He may regret moving down to draft for low upside fit (Jackson) when Collins and Monk were on the board. Frank Mason was a solid need pick in the 2nd round as he's now Fox's vet mentor as a fellow rookie.
Nets - they got a good deal in picking up an undervalued asset in Russell who would've easily been a top-5 player in this draft coming out of OSU. I would've gone with Bradley or focused on shooting at #22, but Allen could become a solid starting defensive center in time. Vezenkov, if he comes over, will be one of the best shooters out of this draft.
Pacers - they're actually big losers with the George trade hanging over their head as they passed up on additional assets in a solid draft, but just looking at their draft, I love Leaf next to Turner. Anigbogu and Sumner have knee issues that may end their careers early, but as 2nd round gambles, I really like their upsides if they can get healthy.
Milwaukee - I have mixed feelings about this draft, and recognize that I could be very wrong in a few years. But Thornwell seemed like a late-2nd rounder as a low ceiling athlete whose one and only good shooting year came as a PF as a senior. He'll bring toughness, but I don't see how he scores in the NBA, and he doesn't have the defensive upside to justify more than spot minutes. Wilson also feels over-drafted to me given his lack of toughness and small sample size of competent, competitive play - he's a gamble on role-player upside that would've been better made later in the 1st.
Huh?
Denver - on a terrible defensive team, trading back for Lyles and then drafting Lydon when Juancho Hernangomez is only in his second year seems like overkill. Denver is going to go all-in on offense only, apparently. I like their second round selections of Cancar (likely stash) and especially Monte Morris - Morris could end up their starting PG by next season.
Miami - I don't get the Bam selection if he's going to be a PF next to Whiteside. As a backup center, this seems too high.
Orlando - this team desperately needs offense and an identity, but took a great talent in Isaac who's best suited to being a switching defensive dynamo and low usage face-up PF. Basically, look for Aaron Gordon to get traded. Passing on Smith at #6 and Evans at #25 (for future 2nds!) means another lottery year with a putrid offense. Oh, and Iwundu at #33 was questionable value.
Losers:
Chicago - they got bent over a barrel to do Thibs a solid. Dunn is a backup defensive specialist who can't shoot; Lavine hasn't posted a positive BPM season by year three, is coming off an ACL tear, and will be looking for a big payday if he's healthy; taking Markkanen at #7 rather than try to address their mess at guard; and trading Bell to the Warriors for cash all points to this team being bad for a good long while. The cherry on top of the crap sundae is that they still traded their #16 pick! GarPax are dead men walking.
Boston - losing out on Butler because of Jayson freaking Tatum is classic Ainge. I also don't like any of their 2nd round picks. Buck Foston for trying to gum up the works on a George to LA trade todnight. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Very early thoughts on winners/losers (not comprehensive):
Big winners:
Minnesota - incredibly lopsided trade for Butler that still allowed them to take one of the best high upside bigs in the draft was brilliant. If they can sign a vet PF with a jumper, they could not only be a playoff team, but make some noise there. Dunn was a low-upside pick in a weak draft and they needed to move one of Lavine or Wiggins for a two-way wing and boy did they get a good one.
Sixers - not only did they get Fultz, but they got a number of my favorites at #28 in the 2nd round. I would've held onto Evans if I were them, but Bolden and Brown with Pasecniks and Lessort to stash is great value and asset management.
Mavs - just chilled out and got a potential multiple All-Star point guard at #9. Easy.
Regular winners:
Suns - despite what adkindo might think, I do like Josh Jackson, and he's in a great situation where he can start early (sorry, TJ Warren) and won't be burdened early on with much more than defending, hustling, and getting out in transition. I would've had Reed higher, but he and Peters both have nice role-player upside as shooters off the bench.
Lakers - getting Ball is the big win, but the trade down from 28 to pick up #42 and get Josh Hart is low key the best deal the young front office has made so far. I liked Bolden at #27 over Kuzma who doesn't have much multi-positional or defensive upside, and Bryant is a reasonable long-term gamble. The Ball and Hart selections make this draft a win for the Lakers.
Jazz - I love the move up for Mitchell who has Avery Bradley potential. And even if I don't love Tony Bradley, there must be something to those analytics.
Solid:
Portland - ballsy move up to #10 to take a potential star unicorn big. I wouldn't be surprised if Collins becomes the Myles Turner of this draft, although Stotts probably will misuse him for a bit at PF to start his career. I love Swanigan the young man, but I hate his feet, and I don't like him as a guaranteed contract on a team that should give all of its C minutes to Nurkic and Collins.
Spurs - if White wasn't 23, I would predict him to be the draft steal of 2017. But even with lower upside, I really like his floor and his fit in San Antonio - he's like bizarro Clarkson. And he might even have a chance to defend learning under Pop.
Charlotte - I think Monk landed in a tough spot next to another undersized, ball dominant guard, but the Hornets took a guy with star upside at #11. Great value, and only their trade from #31 back for Dwayne Bacon (ugh) lowers their "grade."
Clippers - I hate to put them here, especially since Rivers' disastrous management continually leaves them without draft picks, but I love them picking up Evans for cash. Despite his size, the kid is a PnR monster who gets to the rim a ton - if he was a couple inches taller, he would've been a lottery pick.
Toronto - Anunoby could be the best defender in this draft. He could also be unplayable offensively. But if he can become competent as a shooter, he could be a true difference maker for the Raptors. Another smart gamble by Ujiri.
Less than winners/more than losers:
Sacramento - I'm not a big fan of any of their 1st round picks except Giles if he's healthy, but I admire Vlade's willingness to move back to pick up assets. He may regret moving down to draft for low upside fit (Jackson) when Collins and Monk were on the board. Frank Mason was a solid need pick in the 2nd round as he's now Fox's vet mentor as a fellow rookie.
Nets - they got a good deal in picking up an undervalued asset in Russell who would've easily been a top-5 player in this draft coming out of OSU. I would've gone with Bradley or focused on shooting at #22, but Allen could become a solid starting defensive center in time. Vezenkov, if he comes over, will be one of the best shooters out of this draft.
Pacers - they're actually big losers with the George trade hanging over their head as they passed up on additional assets in a solid draft, but just looking at their draft, I love Leaf next to Turner. Anigbogu and Sumner have knee issues that may end their careers early, but as 2nd round gambles, I really like their upsides if they can get healthy.
Milwaukee - I have mixed feelings about this draft, and recognize that I could be very wrong in a few years. But Thornwell seemed like a late-2nd rounder as a low ceiling athlete whose one and only good shooting year came as a PF as a senior. He'll bring toughness, but I don't see how he scores in the NBA, and he doesn't have the defensive upside to justify more than spot minutes. Wilson also feels over-drafted to me given his lack of toughness and small sample size of competent, competitive play - he's a gamble on role-player upside that would've been better made later in the 1st.
Huh?
Denver - on a terrible defensive team, trading back for Lyles and then drafting Lydon when Juancho Hernangomez is only in his second year seems like overkill. Denver is going to go all-in on offense only, apparently. I like their second round selections of Cancar (likely stash) and especially Monte Morris - Morris could end up their starting PG by next season.
Miami - I don't get the Bam selection if he's going to be a PF next to Whiteside. As a backup center, this seems too high.
Orlando - this team desperately needs offense and an identity, but took a great talent in Isaac who's best suited to being a switching defensive dynamo and low usage face-up PF. Basically, look for Aaron Gordon to get traded. Passing on Smith at #6 and Evans at #25 (for future 2nds!) means another lottery year with a putrid offense. Oh, and Iwundu at #33 was questionable value.
Losers:
Chicago - they got bent over a barrel to do Thibs a solid. Dunn is a backup defensive specialist who can't shoot; Lavine hasn't posted a positive BPM season by year three, is coming off an ACL tear, and will be looking for a big payday if he's healthy; taking Markkanen at #7 rather than try to address their mess at guard; and trading Bell to the Warriors for cash all points to this team being bad for a good long while. The cherry on top of the crap sundae is that they still traded their #16 pick! GarPax are dead men walking.
Boston - losing out on Butler because of Jayson freaking Tatum is classic Ainge. I also don't like any of their 2nd round picks. Buck Foston for trying to gum up the works on a George to LA trade todnight. |
Oooh, I'ma enjoy reading this. Gotta do mine too |
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