Lakers defensive rankings after 23 games (will continue updating)
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:58 pm    Post subject: Lakers defensive rankings after 23 games (will continue updating)

The good:
- 5th in Opponent Three Point %
- 13th in Opponent Three Pointers Made per Game
- 8th in Steals per Game
- 5th in Opponent Turnovers per Game

The ugly:
- 24th in Defensive Efficiency
- 27th in Opponent PPG (not really important right now)
- 26th in Opponent floor %
- 30th in Opponent shooting %
- 29th in Opponent points in paint per game
- 28th in Opponent Fastbreak Points per Game
- 28th in Blocks Per Game (29th in Block %)

Source: Teamrankings.

My thoughts: Other than keeping opponents off of the three point line and having some success in forcing turnovers, nothing else is really promising about the Lakers defense right now. As it currently stands, Lakers are in the bottom or close to the bottom in most of the important defensive categories, and there's nothing that screams playoff team to me just yet. If it were the east, I'd be singing a different tune, but none of this will fly in the western conference. If they want a chance of holding that 8th seed, they have to make a more concerted effort to improve certain areas. For starters, they can't allow every single player to waltz into the paint for free points.

Trying to outscore the other team every night is a dismal strategy to winning ball games. It cannot be the long term solution. I would like to see Luke tweak the rotations a bit to allow for more varied defensive play. I would move Ingram to the starting spot and have Deng try to anchor the second unit defense. The rim protection is also next to non-existent right now. There are certain instances where Mozgov needs to finish ball games at center over Randle/Nance. He was doing a good job on Aldridge last night. His size is clearly able to deter shots in the paint.


Last edited by KindCrippler2000 on Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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pio2u
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers defensive rankings after 13 games (will continue updating)

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
The good:
- 5th in Opponent Three Point %
- 13th in Opponent Three Pointers Made per Game
- 8th in Steals per Game
- 5th in Opponent Turnovers per Game

The ugly:
- 24th in Defensive Efficiency
- 27th in Opponent PPG (not really important right now)
- 26th in Opponent floor %
- 30th in Opponent shooting %
- 29th in Opponent points in paint per game
- 28th in Opponent Fastbreak Points per Game
- 28th in Blocks Per Game (29th in Block %)

Source: Teamrankings.

My thoughts: Other than keeping opponents off of the three point line and having some success in forcing turnovers, nothing else is really promising about the Lakers defense right now. As it currently stands, Lakers are in the bottom or close to the bottom in most of the important defensive categories, and there's nothing that screams playoff team to me just yet. If it were the east, I'd be singing a different tune, but none of this will fly in the western conference. If they want a chance of holding that 8th seed, they have to make a more concerted effort to improve certain areas. For starters, they can't allow every single player to waltz into the paint for free points.

Trying to outscore the other team every night is a dismal strategy to winning ball games. It cannot be the long term solution. I would like to see Luke tweak the rotations a bit to allow for more varied defensive play. I would move Ingram to the starting spot and have Deng try to anchor the second unit defense. The rim protection is also next to non-existent right now. There are certain instances where Mozgov needs to finish ball games at center over Randle/Nance. He was doing a good job on Aldridge last night. His size is clearly able to deter shots in the paint.

Thanks for posting.

Points in the paint, fast-break points, etc. sheesh ... so many holes we have a lot of work to do. If this trend continues we are in trouble.
It doesn't matter how many points we score if we can't stop the other team from scoring.

IMO Mozgov definitely needs to get more PT in crunch time for defensive purposes. Ingram too.

Some of those numbers do look really bad but we knew that the defense, like the team overall, was going to be a work in progress.
The team has to stay mentally focused on defense and continue to work at it.

Once we shore up some of those obvious holes we will be a good to go.
Until then it's going to be up and down because, despite the numbers, this team has proven that they have a lot of grit and determination.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:08 pm    Post subject:

The poor defensive performance is also result in: 1) this team don't have good defensive Players. They are at best average individually. We have play our strength which is young, depth and perimeter scoring; 2) Luke's system is to go small, push up tempo to 110-120 ppg to out score opponent teams which is a strategy championship Warriors adopted and also the trend of the league now; 3) there are too many young players and new players playing a new system. They have to learn things one by one. In fact, they have played good defense in certain quarters and halves and players like Young, Russell, Randle and Clarkson have improved their defense a lot comparing to last season.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:06 am    Post subject:

Thanks, great post and a valuable thread!

If you will keep track of this, would it be tto much trouble to track the changes? I'd like to ask for trends, say in ten game strides. To see if the team is improving...
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:34 am    Post subject:

s_habe wrote:
Thanks, great post and a valuable thread!

If you will keep track of this, would it be tto much trouble to track the changes? I'd like to ask for trends, say in ten game strides. To see if the team is improving...


I'll post updates. Every 10 games does sound about right.

It's basically impossible to make the playoffs without improving those categories, so I guess this is more of a playoff watch thread.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:47 am    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:

It's basically impossible to make the playoffs without improving those categories, so I guess this is more of a playoff watch thread.

That's what I was thinking - I think the current record is not reflecting this defense but looking at the games it seems about right. The current record is maybe more a reflection of Lou Williams and Nick Young playing better than expected and shooting close to lights out.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:54 am    Post subject:

The narrative is that the team is bad defensively, but I think it's actually mediocre. If you're playing at a fast pace, then of course you're going to give up more points.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:54 am    Post subject:

The narrative is that the team is bad defensively, but I think it's actually mediocre. Your defense weakens if you play an uptempo style.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:02 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
s_habe wrote:
Thanks, great post and a valuable thread!

If you will keep track of this, would it be tto much trouble to track the changes? I'd like to ask for trends, say in ten game strides. To see if the team is improving...


I'll post updates. Every 10 games does sound about right.

It's basically impossible to make the playoffs without improving those categories, so I guess this is more of a playoff watch thread.


Playoffs? You don't honestly think this can be a playoff team?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:55 pm    Post subject:

24th best defense is not that bad for a team that was dead last
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:59 pm    Post subject:

City_Dawg wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
s_habe wrote:
Thanks, great post and a valuable thread!

If you will keep track of this, would it be tto much trouble to track the changes? I'd like to ask for trends, say in ten game strides. To see if the team is improving...


I'll post updates. Every 10 games does sound about right.

It's basically impossible to make the playoffs without improving those categories, so I guess this is more of a playoff watch thread.


Playoffs? You don't honestly think this can be a playoff team?


I think the 8th seed will be up for grabs. Lakers are basically a few defensive tweaks away from at least battling for that spot in the west. Max Kellerman discussed this on first take the other day and did a basic elimination of the teams that have little to no chance of making it: Pelicans, Mavs, Suns, Kings. That just leaves the Timberwolves and Nuggets, and both are struggling to start the season.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers defensive rankings after 13 games (will continue updating)

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
The good:
- 5th in Opponent Three Point %
- 13th in Opponent Three Pointers Made per Game
- 8th in Steals per Game
- 5th in Opponent Turnovers per Game

The ugly:
- 24th in Defensive Efficiency
- 27th in Opponent PPG (not really important right now)
- 26th in Opponent floor %
- 30th in Opponent shooting %
- 29th in Opponent points in paint per game
- 28th in Opponent Fastbreak Points per Game
- 28th in Blocks Per Game (29th in Block %)

Source: Teamrankings.

My thoughts: Other than keeping opponents off of the three point line and having some success in forcing turnovers, nothing else is really promising about the Lakers defense right now. As it currently stands, Lakers are in the bottom or close to the bottom in most of the important defensive categories, and there's nothing that screams playoff team to me just yet. If it were the east, I'd be singing a different tune, but none of this will fly in the western conference. If they want a chance of holding that 8th seed, they have to make a more concerted effort to improve certain areas. For starters, they can't allow every single player to waltz into the paint for free points.

Trying to outscore the other team every night is a dismal strategy to winning ball games. It cannot be the long term solution. I would like to see Luke tweak the rotations a bit to allow for more varied defensive play. I would move Ingram to the starting spot and have Deng try to anchor the second unit defense. The rim protection is also next to non-existent right now. There are certain instances where Mozgov needs to finish ball games at center over Randle/Nance. He was doing a good job on Aldridge last night. His size is clearly able to deter shots in the paint.


the problem with our paint defense is other than maybe moz who else is big enough/strong enough to make someone think twice about rushing the paint? if guys dont think twice about it, it means they are confident. A confident NBA player(bench guy or starter) is trouble for any team. The difference between the kobes of the world and the rest of the guys is a certain level of confidence they have in themselves/ and their game. the lakers are giving confidence to guys when they think about going into the paint or posting up.
Randle isnt a big enough guy to scare anyone. He can slow down perimeter guys trying to drive around him. but he can't do anything with a mobile strong big man. he can't do much with an slow methodical big man that has a decent back to the basket paint game.

Deng is too old. Russell isnt strong enough and is a perimeter player. clarkson is to thin if he is playing a guy thats bigger than him . THis is why Young is in the starting lineup. at least he has some weight on him.

Tarik black is too small. nance is too small.

So luke will have to try to outscore these types of teams until we can get some FA's in here with size and defensive ability.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:28 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
City_Dawg wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
s_habe wrote:
Thanks, great post and a valuable thread!

If you will keep track of this, would it be tto much trouble to track the changes? I'd like to ask for trends, say in ten game strides. To see if the team is improving...


I'll post updates. Every 10 games does sound about right.

It's basically impossible to make the playoffs without improving those categories, so I guess this is more of a playoff watch thread.


Playoffs? You don't honestly think this can be a playoff team?


I think the 8th seed will be up for grabs. Lakers are basically a few defensive tweaks away from at least battling for that spot in the west. Max Kellerman discussed this on first take the other day and did a basic elimination of the teams that have little to no chance of making it: Pelicans, Mavs, Suns, Kings. That just leaves the Timberwolves and Nuggets, and both are struggling to start the season.


Thats also assuming the Lakers dont go on an extended skid, which they are very capable of doing, due to injuries, drop in play, etc.

Also, this team needs more talent and for the talent we do have to develop more. It's nice the Lakers are playing well early, but playoffs might be a bridge too far, this year anyway.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:09 pm    Post subject:

If opponent's PPG is invalid because of pace, shouldn't that also do the same for paint PPG and fast break PPG?
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:52 pm    Post subject:

OregonLakerGuy wrote:
If opponent's PPG is invalid because of pace, shouldn't that also do the same for paint PPG and fast break PPG?


PPG is not completely invalid. Out of curiosity, did you watch the Bulls game? Teams get into their half-court sets, score at ease. Butler, Lopez, Gibson got many put-backs from easy rebounds -- there are so many other variables involved than just pace alone. Randle and Mozgov offer little to no resistance in the paint. Nance and Black are undersized. The benefit of having a guy like Whiteside/Gobert is that teams steer away from the paint, and inevitably score less. Heat and Jazz are ranked 7th and 3rd respectively in opponent paint points. Having a rim protector in there limits the paint points, offensive rebounds, put-backs, etc.


Last edited by KindCrippler2000 on Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:53 pm    Post subject:

30th in Opponent shooting %

And that's ultimately the only stat that really matters
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:00 pm    Post subject:

Our defense and rebounding were poor tonight.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:01 pm    Post subject:

We were Out-rebounded 56 to 37
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:04 pm    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
Our defense and rebounding were poor tonight.


I would update the rankings, but I don't want to look. They got a lot worse.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:15 am    Post subject:

Lakers Aim to Shore Up Defense


Quote:
Julius Randle didn’t hold back on the factor behind the Lakers’ 118-110 loss to Chicago on Sunday night.

“We didn’t guard anybody tonight and that’s a big reason why we lost the game,” he said after the game.

Head coach Luke Walton was happy to hear that his players are taking ownership of the defensive deficiency considering that the Lakers are allowing opponents to average 109.6 points on a league-high 47.5 percentage from the field.

Specifically, Larry Nance Jr. suggested that he and Tarik Black might need to focus more on shot-blocking, as the Lakers are tallying an NBA-low 3.8 swats per game.


http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/161121-lakers-defense
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:23 am    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
Specifically, Larry Nance Jr. suggested that he and Tarik Black might need to focus more on shot-blocking, as the Lakers are tallying an NBA-low 3.8 swats per game.


Not sure that's the main problem of our defense...
Focus on defensive rebounding (Randle/Dlo/JC and others can do much better) and better communication...
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:39 am    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
City_Dawg wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
s_habe wrote:
Thanks, great post and a valuable thread!

If you will keep track of this, would it be tto much trouble to track the changes? I'd like to ask for trends, say in ten game strides. To see if the team is improving...


I'll post updates. Every 10 games does sound about right.

It's basically impossible to make the playoffs without improving those categories, so I guess this is more of a playoff watch thread.


Playoffs? You don't honestly think this can be a playoff team?


I think the 8th seed will be up for grabs. Lakers are basically a few defensive tweaks away from at least battling for that spot in the west. Max Kellerman discussed this on first take the other day and did a basic elimination of the teams that have little to no chance of making it: Pelicans, Mavs, Suns, Kings. That just leaves the Timberwolves and Nuggets, and both are struggling to start the season.


My guess is the ultimate 8 playoff teams will be the Clippers, Warriors, Spurs, Memphis, Houston, OKC, Portland and the Jazz (think you forgot about them).

It's way too early to worry about the playoffs. This is a young team, bound to go through some ups and downs. If things go our way, I could see us sneaking into the 8th spot and having an 0-4 first round. I could also see us ending up in the 12th spot.

Either way, I am more concerned about seeing improvements (think we need more than a few defensive "tweaks" - our defense has issues from a to z).
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:50 am    Post subject:

I think the 8th seed will come down to health. If we can stay healthy, we could grab it.
Same goes with Utah and Denver. The healthiest team will get that spot between those 3 teams.

Also if Lillard, Harden, or Westbrook get injured this season. 2 playoff seeds will be up for grabs. I wish all those guys good health. But given their usage, I wouldn't be surprised if someone suffers an injury.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:14 am    Post subject:

Worst opponent FG% in the league? Yuck, and thats with opponents shooting terribly on open outside shots so far. It could get a lot worse if they don't start making adjustments.
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:32 am    Post subject:

Many of those things dropped. I said I would post them in 10 game increments, but here are a few categories that dipped:

Defensive efficiency dipped to 26th.
Opponent paint scoring dipped to 30th.
Blocks per game dipped to 30th.
Opponent FG% dipped to 30th.

They play the Warriors twice this week. I think it will be a good while before I post them again.
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