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jodeke
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 Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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There will be pressure applied to have those in opposition to the bill. Hopefully negotiations will feather the bill so it won't do so much harm to the poor and elderly.
From what I've read the bill is a tax cut for the rich.
As mentioned, opposition is not a vote.
Four GOP senators say they can't vote for current Republican health care bill
LINK
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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NBC Poll: Half of Americans want Democrats to control Congress as Trump struggles, poll shows
| Quote: | | At the same time, Americans now say by 50 percent to 42 percent they want Democrats to control Congress after the 2018 mid-term elections. That's the largest lead either party has held on that generic ballot question in the NBC/WSJ poll since 2013, and the first time either party reached 50 percent on that question since 2008. |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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I'm afraid that number has to be even higher when taking into account gerrymandering and the hidden Trump vote not reflected in polls. But it's a good sign. I think there are 23 districts Hillary won that Republicans control, and the Dems need 24 seats.
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hoopschick29
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | | I love you Barry but "compromise" is dirty word in politics nowadays. Its winner take all. God knows where that will take us. |
Yep. Great words by a great leader. But they are words that will fall on deaf ears when it comes to the decision makers, for the very reason you mention. |
In my opinion, this is PBO's greatest failure - and it's a sad one - he refused to accept the enemy that was in front of him. He really believed he could get Republicans to work with him even though they made it clear from the jump that they had ZERO interest in helping him accomplish anything. So when you're 'compromising,' when you're making concessions to a group of people who aren't negotiating in good faith...you lose. EVERYTIME. The ACA. Obama and the Dems made a gang of concessions to the Republicans. They took suggestions and made concessions. But the concessions weren't offered to make the bill stronger (remember, they didn't want the bill at all). The concessions were offered to make the bill WEAKER, therefore giving them the ammo to indict it in future elections. They did just that. And the Republicans have been winning ever since.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| hoopschick29 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | | I love you Barry but "compromise" is dirty word in politics nowadays. Its winner take all. God knows where that will take us. |
Yep. Great words by a great leader. But they are words that will fall on deaf ears when it comes to the decision makers, for the very reason you mention. |
In my opinion, this is PBO's greatest failure - and it's a sad one - he refused to accept the enemy that was in front of him. He really believed he could get Republicans to work with him even though they made it clear from the jump that they had ZERO interest in helping him accomplish anything. So when you're 'compromising,' when you're making concessions to a group of people who aren't negotiating in good faith...you lose. EVERYTIME. The ACA. Obama and the Dems made a gang of concessions to the Republicans. They took suggestions and made concessions. But the concessions weren't offered to make the bill stronger (remember, they didn't want the bill at all). The concessions were offered to make the bill WEAKER, therefore giving them the ammo to indict it in future elections. They did just that. And the Republicans have been winning ever since. |
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Freddie Buckets
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Better got their ass and vote next year then. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| hoopschick29 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | | I love you Barry but "compromise" is dirty word in politics nowadays. Its winner take all. God knows where that will take us. |
Yep. Great words by a great leader. But they are words that will fall on deaf ears when it comes to the decision makers, for the very reason you mention. |
In my opinion, this is PBO's greatest failure - and it's a sad one - he refused to accept the enemy that was in front of him. He really believed he could get Republicans to work with him even though they made it clear from the jump that they had ZERO interest in helping him accomplish anything. So when you're 'compromising,' when you're making concessions to a group of people who aren't negotiating in good faith...you lose. EVERYTIME. The ACA. Obama and the Dems made a gang of concessions to the Republicans. They took suggestions and made concessions. But the concessions weren't offered to make the bill stronger (remember, they didn't want the bill at all). The concessions were offered to make the bill WEAKER, therefore giving them the ammo to indict it in future elections. They did just that. And the Republicans have been winning ever since. |
You might not be remembering the whole picture as it actually went down. The concessions weren't to Republicans (though he DID try to work with them), they were to Blue Dog Democrats, and guys like Joe Lieberman who refused to vote on any ACA that included a public option. If all the Democrats had voted party line, we could have passed anything. It didn't work that way though because of that coalition.
Those Democrats were then voted out of office en-masse the next midterm elections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Coalition#112th_Congress
https://www.google.com/search?q=blue+dog+democrats+ACA&oq=blue+dog+democrats+ACA |
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ContagiousInspiration
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | | I love you Barry but "compromise" is dirty word in politics nowadays. Its winner take all. God knows where that will take us. |
Yep. Great words by a great leader. But they are words that will fall on deaf ears when it comes to the decision makers, for the very reason you mention. |
In my opinion, this is PBO's greatest failure - and it's a sad one - he refused to accept the enemy that was in front of him. He really believed he could get Republicans to work with him even though they made it clear from the jump that they had ZERO interest in helping him accomplish anything. So when you're 'compromising,' when you're making concessions to a group of people who aren't negotiating in good faith...you lose. EVERYTIME. The ACA. Obama and the Dems made a gang of concessions to the Republicans. They took suggestions and made concessions. But the concessions weren't offered to make the bill stronger (remember, they didn't want the bill at all). The concessions were offered to make the bill WEAKER, therefore giving them the ammo to indict it in future elections. They did just that. And the Republicans have been winning ever since. |
You might not be remembering the whole picture as it actually went down. The concessions weren't to Republicans (though he DID try to work with them), they were to Blue Dog Democrats, and guys like Joe Lieberman who refused to vote on any ACA that included a public option. If all the Democrats had voted party line, we could have passed anything. It didn't work that way though because of that coalition.
Those Democrats were then voted out of office en-masse the next midterm elections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Coalition#112th_Congress
https://www.google.com/search?q=blue+dog+democrats+ACA&oq=blue+dog+democrats+ACA |
Thank you Nancy Pelosi
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: |
Those Democrats were then voted out of office en-masse the next midterm elections. |
Really? I guess no one told Feinstein she was voted out.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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tlim
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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But well than half Americans vote, and that's been the crux of the problem from day one. And the GOP machine ensures it gets harder and harder and you know what?
Most don't care and most accept their early death and insolvency for happened to them.
It might seem cynical, but it's reality. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: |
Those Democrats were then voted out of office en-masse the next midterm elections. |
Really? I guess no one told Feinstein she was voted out. |
I was referring to the Blue Dogs (Wikipedia link shows how the Blue Dog representatives were destroyed after 2010).
Feinstein remains a thorn in the side of those who want a public option, especially since she's compromised on the issue by lobbyists.  |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| City_Dawg wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | | I love you Barry but "compromise" is dirty word in politics nowadays. Its winner take all. God knows where that will take us. |
Yep. Great words by a great leader. But they are words that will fall on deaf ears when it comes to the decision makers, for the very reason you mention. |
In my opinion, this is PBO's greatest failure - and it's a sad one - he refused to accept the enemy that was in front of him. He really believed he could get Republicans to work with him even though they made it clear from the jump that they had ZERO interest in helping him accomplish anything. So when you're 'compromising,' when you're making concessions to a group of people who aren't negotiating in good faith...you lose. EVERYTIME. The ACA. Obama and the Dems made a gang of concessions to the Republicans. They took suggestions and made concessions. But the concessions weren't offered to make the bill stronger (remember, they didn't want the bill at all). The concessions were offered to make the bill WEAKER, therefore giving them the ammo to indict it in future elections. They did just that. And the Republicans have been winning ever since. |
You might not be remembering the whole picture as it actually went down. The concessions weren't to Republicans (though he DID try to work with them), they were to Blue Dog Democrats, and guys like Joe Lieberman who refused to vote on any ACA that included a public option. If all the Democrats had voted party line, we could have passed anything. It didn't work that way though because of that coalition.
Those Democrats were then voted out of office en-masse the next midterm elections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Coalition#112th_Congress
https://www.google.com/search?q=blue+dog+democrats+ACA&oq=blue+dog+democrats+ACA |
Thank you Nancy Pelosi |
Don't blame her, she was for it. It was Joe Lieberman and his Connecticut insurance haven money.
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Wilt
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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IIRC, the public option bill passed the House, but never made it out of committee in the Senate.
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | | I love you Barry but "compromise" is dirty word in politics nowadays. Its winner take all. God knows where that will take us. |
Yep. Great words by a great leader. But they are words that will fall on deaf ears when it comes to the decision makers, for the very reason you mention. |
In my opinion, this is PBO's greatest failure - and it's a sad one - he refused to accept the enemy that was in front of him. He really believed he could get Republicans to work with him even though they made it clear from the jump that they had ZERO interest in helping him accomplish anything. So when you're 'compromising,' when you're making concessions to a group of people who aren't negotiating in good faith...you lose. EVERYTIME. The ACA. Obama and the Dems made a gang of concessions to the Republicans. They took suggestions and made concessions. But the concessions weren't offered to make the bill stronger (remember, they didn't want the bill at all). The concessions were offered to make the bill WEAKER, therefore giving them the ammo to indict it in future elections. They did just that. And the Republicans have been winning ever since. |
You might not be remembering the whole picture as it actually went down. The concessions weren't to Republicans (though he DID try to work with them), they were to Blue Dog Democrats, and guys like Joe Lieberman who refused to vote on any ACA that included a public option. If all the Democrats had voted party line, we could have passed anything. It didn't work that way though because of that coalition.
Those Democrats were then voted out of office en-masse the next midterm elections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Coalition#112th_Congress
https://www.google.com/search?q=blue+dog+democrats+ACA&oq=blue+dog+democrats+ACA |
Thank you Nancy Pelosi |
Don't blame her, she was for it. It was Joe Lieberman and his Connecticut insurance haven money. |
No, I meant it as a compliment. Since people talking bad about her seem to forget shes pretty good at what she does which is whip votes and she whipped the (bleep) out of the ACA.
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:05 am Post subject: |
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HUGE WaPo piece on the Russia hacking, who knew what and when, etc.
| Quote: | | Obama also approved a previously undisclosed covert measure that authorized planting cyber weapons in Russia’s infrastructure, the digital equivalent of bombs that could be detonated if the United States found itself in an escalating exchange with Moscow. The project, which Obama approved in a covert-action finding, was still in its planning stages when Obama left office. It would be up to President Trump to decide whether to use the capability. |
| Quote: |
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) went further, officials said, voicing skepticism that the underlying intelligence truly supported the White House’s claims. Through a spokeswoman, McConnell declined to comment, citing the secrecy of that meeting. |
| Quote: |
Then, on Oct. 31, the administration delivered a final pre-election message via a secure channel to Moscow originally created to avert a nuclear exchange. The message noted that the United States had detected malicious activity, originating from servers in Russia, targeting U.S. election systems and warned that meddling would be regarded as unacceptable interference. Russia confirmed the next day that it had received the message but replied only after the election through the same channel, denying the accusation. |
| Quote: | The implants were developed by the NSA and designed so that they could be triggered remotely as part of retaliatory cyber-strike in the face of Russian aggression, whether an attack on a power grid or interference in a future presidential race.
U.S. intelligence agencies do not need further approval from Trump, and officials said that he would have to issue a countermanding order to stop it. The officials said that they have seen no indication that Trump has done so.
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Only two words suffice - holy (bleep)! |
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SweetP
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | HUGE WaPo piece on the Russia hacking, who knew what and when, etc.
| Quote: | | Obama also approved a previously undisclosed covert measure that authorized planting cyber weapons in Russia’s infrastructure, the digital equivalent of bombs that could be detonated if the United States found itself in an escalating exchange with Moscow. The project, which Obama approved in a covert-action finding, was still in its planning stages when Obama left office. It would be up to President Trump to decide whether to use the capability. |
| Quote: |
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) went further, officials said, voicing skepticism that the underlying intelligence truly supported the White House’s claims. Through a spokeswoman, McConnell declined to comment, citing the secrecy of that meeting. |
| Quote: |
Then, on Oct. 31, the administration delivered a final pre-election message via a secure channel to Moscow originally created to avert a nuclear exchange. The message noted that the United States had detected malicious activity, originating from servers in Russia, targeting U.S. election systems and warned that meddling would be regarded as unacceptable interference. Russia confirmed the next day that it had received the message but replied only after the election through the same channel, denying the accusation. |
| Quote: | The implants were developed by the NSA and designed so that they could be triggered remotely as part of retaliatory cyber-strike in the face of Russian aggression, whether an attack on a power grid or interference in a future presidential race.
U.S. intelligence agencies do not need further approval from Trump, and officials said that he would have to issue a countermanding order to stop it. The officials said that they have seen no indication that Trump has done so.
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Only two words suffice - holy (bleep)! |
Still reading it but yes, holy (bleep) is right.
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| There is no good that can be made of such information going public. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| How in the hell is information like that public? Unless it's a smokescreen for what's really happening, it seems like a really bad idea to put that out there. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:30 am Post subject: |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Rand Paul: Insurance should be available for $1 a day
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) slammed Senate Republicans' healthcare overhaul bill on Friday, saying that it's grounded in "propping up" insurance companies.
He also called for the creation of a healthcare law that would reduce insurance costs to as little as $1 a day for at least some consumers.
"What I'd like to do is legalize inexpensive insurance, and you should be able to get insurance for $1 a day. I mean, you really should," Paul said on MSNBC's "Morning Joe." "The insurance companies make all the money; all of this is predicated upon still propping up the insurance companies."
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/339123-rand-paul-insurance-should-be-available-for-1-a-day |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | How in the hell is information like that public? Unless it's a smokescreen for what's really happening, it seems like a really bad idea to put that out there. |
Our electoral system is the bedrock of our democracy. You cannot let the Russian get away with it, not with a slap on the wrist.
Drastic measures should be considered, and even implemented.
In other words, you answered your own question. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | How in the hell is information like that public? Unless it's a smokescreen for what's really happening, it seems like a really bad idea to put that out there. |
Our electoral system is the bedrock of our democracy. You cannot let the Russian get away with it, not with a slap on the wrist.
Drastic measures should be considered, and even implemented.
In other words, you answered your own question. |
If the US is planning/implementing a cyberweapon program to protect the state, seems that should be classified, no? The public doesn't need to know that. We didn't spill the beans in the 80's, and that led to successful operations like this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1455559/CIA-plot-led-to-huge-blast-in-Siberian-gas-pipeline.html |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | How in the hell is information like that public? Unless it's a smokescreen for what's really happening, it seems like a really bad idea to put that out there. |
Our electoral system is the bedrock of our democracy. You cannot let the Russian get away with it, not with a slap on the wrist.
Drastic measures should be considered, and even implemented.
In other words, you answered your own question. |
If the US is planning/implementing a cyberweapon program to protect the state, seems that should be classified, no? The public doesn't need to know that. We didn't spill the beans in the 80's, and that led to successful operations like this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1455559/CIA-plot-led-to-huge-blast-in-Siberian-gas-pipeline.html |
Not at all. It's akin to the poorly kept secret weapon that the Russians have, the so-called Doomsday Machine in the Urals, or the rumored "Death Tape" or "Black Tape" of the US. You make it a poorly kept secret so that the other side knows you mean business. |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Besides, cyberweapons planted in Russia's infrastructure isn't really much to go on. People had foreknowledge of Stuxnet and that still did the trick. I can only assume that whatever they have laying in wait is a bit more robust. |
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