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20,000
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 Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: |
I don't care what the reason is, this is a good move. |
I don't want to agree with you, but arming people there is not wise. Look what happened in Afghanistan. And Iraq. I would still skewer Trump, but this is not an easy decision to make.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: |
I don't care what the reason is, this is a good move. |
I don't want to agree with you, but arming people there is not wise. Look what happened in Afghanistan. And Iraq. I would still skewer Trump, but this is not an easy decision to make. |
In a vacuum sure. But I don't like the precedent of serving Putin's interests.
In the next situation. It might not be a "good move". In fact, considering how diametrically opposed our interests and Russia's interests are. It's almost a given.
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: |
I don't care what the reason is, this is a good move. |
I don't want to agree with you, but arming people there is not wise. Look what happened in Afghanistan. And Iraq. I would still skewer Trump, but this is not an easy decision to make. |
Broken clock is right twice a day and all that ... |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Whatever you think of this particular decision, emboldening Putin has wider implications. Did Trump make a deal to stay neutral or hands-off in any current or future Russian aggression? We know Putin will take this as a green light to see what else he can get away with. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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Ceasar from Planet of the Apes
vs
Donald Trump
Who would get your vote for POTUS |
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20,000
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: |
I don't care what the reason is, this is a good move. |
I don't want to agree with you, but arming people there is not wise. Look what happened in Afghanistan. And Iraq. I would still skewer Trump, but this is not an easy decision to make. |
In a vacuum sure. But I don't like the precedent of serving Putin's interests.
In the next situation. It might not be a "good move". In fact, considering how diametrically opposed our interests and Russia's interests are. It's almost a given. |
Exactly, and I am not even thinking about the next move. Even this move it stinks. Russia is deep in the area. Disarming people, whichever side they are on, is going to give Russia so much power. They will arm Assad and infiltrate much more. This is a horrendous move by Trump, but still not good to keep arming rebels in the region.
Ugh.
It sounds like I contradicted myself, but that is why I said it is not an easy decision. He is treating everything so black and white when things are way more complicated than that.
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Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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20,000
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Whatever you think of this particular decision, emboldening Putin has wider implications. Did Trump make a deal to stay neutral or hands-off in any current or future Russian aggression? We know Putin will take this as a green light to see what else he can get away with. |
Ukraine says hello
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Fact is we shouldn't have gotten our noses in Syria initially, and it was our bad judgement in Iraq that lead to the rise of ISIS in the first place. We're still in Afghanistan 16 years later. The United States has a very poor track record with intervention in the Middle East/Asia. We really need to stop acting like the world police because we suck at it.
We help topple dictators and Islamic theocracies pop up. We just need to butt out. People will embrace democracy and westernize on their own; we can't force them.
Last edited by DuncanIdaho on Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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20,000
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Fact is we shouldn't have gotten our noses in Syria initially, and it was our bad judgement in Iraq that lead to the rise of ISIS in the first place. We're still in Afghanistan 16 years later. The United States and France and England and ancient Greece and ancient Rome have a very poor track record with intervention in the Middle East/Asia. We really need to stop acting like the world police because we suck at it. |
Fixed.
When will we ever learn?
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Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Fact is we shouldn't have gotten our noses in Syria initially, and it was our bad judgement in Iraq that lead to the rise of ISIS in the first place. We're still in Afghanistan 16 years later. The United States and France and England and ancient Greece and ancient Rome have a very poor track record with intervention in the Middle East/Asia. We really need to stop acting like the world police because we suck at it. |
Fixed.
When will we ever learn? |
True that. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Total Cost of Wars Since 2001
Every hour, taxpayers in the United States are paying
$8.36 million for Total Cost of Wars Since 2001.
$1,774,502,004,387 |
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/
While we look to give people who don't even fight in the wars more tax breaks and take money from families that fight in these wars....
Reason to ever respect any politician outside of neighborhood elections? |
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20,000
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | | Quote: | Total Cost of Wars Since 2001
Every hour, taxpayers in the United States are paying
$8.36 million for Total Cost of Wars Since 2001.
$1,774,502,004,387 |
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/
While we look to give people who don't even fight in the wars more tax breaks and take money from families that fight in these wars....
Reason to ever respect any politician outside of neighborhood elections? |
I don't even trust my high school senior class president.
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Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Whatever you think of this particular decision, emboldening Putin has wider implications. Did Trump make a deal to stay neutral or hands-off in any current or future Russian aggression? We know Putin will take this as a green light to see what else he can get away with. |
Don't think so.
Well for one the previous administration went into Syria with no strategy and drew red lines they couldn't enforce. They got involved in a conflict that they couldn't win. Syria was in Russia's sphere of influence and we thought we could change things. The American public, both Democrats and Republicans didn't support such actions, after being engaged in previous adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. Syria is a lose-lose situation like Vietnam and the sooner we stop supporting "rebels" whose real intentions are muddy and unclear the better off we are. |
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20,000
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Whatever you think of this particular decision, emboldening Putin has wider implications. Did Trump make a deal to stay neutral or hands-off in any current or future Russian aggression? We know Putin will take this as a green light to see what else he can get away with. |
Don't think so.
Well for one the previous administration went into Syria with no strategy and drew red lines they couldn't enforce. They got involved in a conflict that they couldn't win. Syria was in Russia's sphere of influence and we thought we could change things. The American public, both Democrats and Republicans didn't support such actions, after being engaged in previous adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. Syria is a lose-lose situation like Vietnam and the sooner we stop supporting "rebels" whose real intentions are muddy and unclear the better off we are. |
Perhaps, but when people are being gassed and killed en masse, the US had to say something. It was not just a matter of the last administration but about all intervention there, and if we can continue supporting such horrendous acts on people.
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Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Whatever you think of this particular decision, emboldening Putin has wider implications. Did Trump make a deal to stay neutral or hands-off in any current or future Russian aggression? We know Putin will take this as a green light to see what else he can get away with. |
Don't think so.
Well for one the previous administration went into Syria with no strategy and drew red lines they couldn't enforce. They got involved in a conflict that they couldn't win. Syria was in Russia's sphere of influence and we thought we could change things. The American public, both Democrats and Republicans didn't support such actions, after being engaged in previous adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. Syria is a lose-lose situation like Vietnam and the sooner we stop supporting "rebels" whose real intentions are muddy and unclear the better off we are. |
My post wasn't addressing any of those things. It was specifically about emboldening Putin. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Whatever you think of this particular decision, emboldening Putin has wider implications. Did Trump make a deal to stay neutral or hands-off in any current or future Russian aggression? We know Putin will take this as a green light to see what else he can get away with. |
Don't think so.
Well for one the previous administration went into Syria with no strategy and drew red lines they couldn't enforce. They got involved in a conflict that they couldn't win. Syria was in Russia's sphere of influence and we thought we could change things. The American public, both Democrats and Republicans didn't support such actions, after being engaged in previous adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. Syria is a lose-lose situation like Vietnam and the sooner we stop supporting "rebels" whose real intentions are muddy and unclear the better off we are. |
Perhaps, but when people are being gassed and killed en masse, the US had to say something. It was not just a matter of the last administration but about all intervention there, and if we can continue supporting such horrendous acts on people. |
I don't even think there was ever any conclusive proof on who used chemical weapons. Anyways it was a bad situation where both sides were willing to use tactics that have been outlawed by the Geneva Convention. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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I go back and forth when it comes to military intervention in foreign countries.
Like encina brought up. What if there is a genocide going on?
What if a minority isn't being killed. But they are being jailed, indefinitely?
And if that's the line. What if there is a superpower stronger than us in the future. And what if the US prison industrial complex grows even more than it has now.
Would it be wrong if another superpower militarily intervened on us, and kept everything the same besides changing our racially biased criminal justice system.
Military intervention is a topic I just don't have a handle on. The most I can say is. It's a case-by-case situation. And it's a whole lot easier to be calm and rational discussing it, when you are the intervene-er as opposed to the country being intervened on.
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The Lebrons
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Whatever you think of this particular decision, emboldening Putin has wider implications. Did Trump make a deal to stay neutral or hands-off in any current or future Russian aggression? We know Putin will take this as a green light to see what else he can get away with. |
Don't think so.
Well for one the previous administration went into Syria with no strategy and drew red lines they couldn't enforce. They got involved in a conflict that they couldn't win. Syria was in Russia's sphere of influence and we thought we could change things. The American public, both Democrats and Republicans didn't support such actions, after being engaged in previous adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. Syria is a lose-lose situation like Vietnam and the sooner we stop supporting "rebels" whose real intentions are muddy and unclear the better off we are. |
Perhaps, but when people are being gassed and killed en masse, the US had to say something. It was not just a matter of the last administration but about all intervention there, and if we can continue supporting such horrendous acts on people. |
I don't even think there was ever any conclusive proof on who used chemical weapons. Anyways it was a bad situation where both sides were willing to use tactics that have been outlawed by the Geneva Convention. |
In Trump world, what constitutes conclusive proof? Pretty soon 2+2 is going to equal 5. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Fact is we shouldn't have gotten our noses in Syria initially, and it was our bad judgement in Iraq that lead to the rise of ISIS in the first place. We're still in Afghanistan 16 years later. The United States and France and England and ancient Greece and ancient Rome have a very poor track record with intervention in the Middle East/Asia. We really need to stop acting like the world police because we suck at it. |
Fixed.
When will we ever learn? |
History
Repeat
History
Repeat . . .
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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32
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | @SaraCarterDC
Next week Senate Judiciary Committee calls Glenn R. Simpson (Fusion GPS)
Paul J. Manafort, Donald J. Trump, Jr. to testify. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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NYT The Voter Purge Is Coming
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SweetP
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Damien to speak to Senate Intell Committee in closed session
Kushner will speak behind closed doors to committee aides and some members in a more "informal" session than the formal (and open) Senate Judiciary Committee meetings Trump Jr. and Manafort are scheduled for, according to MSNBC info from Jared's lawyer.
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SweetP
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, the members on this committee are long-term voter suppression guys. Using Trump's lie about winning the popular vote if it wasn't for illegal voters to go after "certain" voters nationwide. And we all know who those certain voters are.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| SweetP wrote: |
Yep, the members on this committee are long-term voter suppression guys. Using Trump's lie about winning the popular vote if it wasn't for illegal voters to go after "certain" voters nationwide. And we all know who those certain voters are. |
The thing is, they are going to issue a "finding" of rampant fraud and disenfranchise millions, and the right wing base is going to buy it.
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32
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Man this really sucks.
| Quote: | | Sen. John McCain has been diagnosed with brain cancer after recent surgery to remove a blood clot http://lat.ms/2tIna0O |
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