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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17835
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | Interesting suggestion of expanding Medicare to high cost patients, socializing them and keeping the markets healthier... |
This has long been my (conservative) father's preferred method of dealing with high cost patients (like myself). I don't really know enough about healthcare policy to know the downsides, besides that it seems to be the exact kind of program that inevitably ends up underfunded.
edit: I should clarify that his preference isn't using Medicare necessarily, but rather just having the government take care of those who distort the market through some socialization mechanism.
Last edited by tox on Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wilt LG Contributor
Joined: 29 Dec 2002 Posts: 13711
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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tox wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Interesting suggestion of expanding Medicare to high cost patients, socializing them and keeping the markets healthier... |
This has long been my (conservative) father's preferred method of dealing with high cost patients (like myself). I don't really know enough about healthcare policy to know the downsides, besides that it seems to be the exact kind of program that inevitably ends up underfunded. |
I think it can go further, without approaching single-payer for all. "Medicare buy in" is the most realistic option that all Democrats and many Republicans would support. The Democrats can craft a message that basically tells people that Medicare works very well and if you want to join it before 65, you have to pay a certain amount. But they have to be united in that message. _________________ ¡Hala Madrid! |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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I guess my first thoughts about McCain were right. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17835
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Wilt wrote: | tox wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Interesting suggestion of expanding Medicare to high cost patients, socializing them and keeping the markets healthier... |
This has long been my (conservative) father's preferred method of dealing with high cost patients (like myself). I don't really know enough about healthcare policy to know the downsides, besides that it seems to be the exact kind of program that inevitably ends up underfunded. |
I think it can go further, without approaching single-payer for all. "Medicare buy in" is the most realistic option that all Democrats and many Republicans would support. The Democrats can craft a message that basically tells people that Medicare works very well and if you want to join it before 65, you have to pay a certain amount. But they have to be united in that message. |
I think I'm missing something, so educate me if I am -- how exactly is that different than the reviled public option? |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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tox wrote: | Wilt wrote: | tox wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Interesting suggestion of expanding Medicare to high cost patients, socializing them and keeping the markets healthier... |
This has long been my (conservative) father's preferred method of dealing with high cost patients (like myself). I don't really know enough about healthcare policy to know the downsides, besides that it seems to be the exact kind of program that inevitably ends up underfunded. |
I think it can go further, without approaching single-payer for all. "Medicare buy in" is the most realistic option that all Democrats and many Republicans would support. The Democrats can craft a message that basically tells people that Medicare works very well and if you want to join it before 65, you have to pay a certain amount. But they have to be united in that message. |
I think I'm missing something, so educate me if I am -- how exactly is that different than the reviled public option? |
It is the public option. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17835
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | tox wrote: | Wilt wrote: | tox wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Interesting suggestion of expanding Medicare to high cost patients, socializing them and keeping the markets healthier... |
This has long been my (conservative) father's preferred method of dealing with high cost patients (like myself). I don't really know enough about healthcare policy to know the downsides, besides that it seems to be the exact kind of program that inevitably ends up underfunded. |
I think it can go further, without approaching single-payer for all. "Medicare buy in" is the most realistic option that all Democrats and many Republicans would support. The Democrats can craft a message that basically tells people that Medicare works very well and if you want to join it before 65, you have to pay a certain amount. But they have to be united in that message. |
I think I'm missing something, so educate me if I am -- how exactly is that different than the reviled public option? |
It is the public option. |
That's what I thought. I don't know why any Republicans would support it based on recent history. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Fwiw, heller could simply be a coward, and McCain, with nothing to lose and a secure legacy, could take the heat.
Should also mention the two ladies from the GOP who had courage the whole way. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Wilt LG Contributor
Joined: 29 Dec 2002 Posts: 13711
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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tox wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | tox wrote: | Wilt wrote: | tox wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Interesting suggestion of expanding Medicare to high cost patients, socializing them and keeping the markets healthier... |
This has long been my (conservative) father's preferred method of dealing with high cost patients (like myself). I don't really know enough about healthcare policy to know the downsides, besides that it seems to be the exact kind of program that inevitably ends up underfunded. |
I think it can go further, without approaching single-payer for all. "Medicare buy in" is the most realistic option that all Democrats and many Republicans would support. The Democrats can craft a message that basically tells people that Medicare works very well and if you want to join it before 65, you have to pay a certain amount. But they have to be united in that message. |
I think I'm missing something, so educate me if I am -- how exactly is that different than the reviled public option? |
It is the public option. |
That's what I thought. I don't know why any Republicans would support it based on recent history. |
The reason I said "Medicare buy in" is because it sounds better than "public option." No one hates Medicare, older Republicans use it and love it. So the Democrats have to use the word medicare as much as possible. I'm not talking about Republicans in Congress, I'm talking about Republicans and independents around the country. "Public option" is not a good slogan. It sucks. "If you want to join Medicare, you should be able to buy into it." I think it can work with enough people to take back Congress.
Polling has suggested over the years that a majority of Americans would want to join a government controlled insurance. It's just that a lot of Republicans believe in that, but also hear horror stories from their representatives and talk show hosts of how Europeans are all dying waiting for surgeries for 10 years. And it's because Democrats haven't sold that message well. _________________ ¡Hala Madrid!
Last edited by Wilt on Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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City_Dawg Retired Number
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 46878 Location: Coming soon and striking at your borders.
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SweetP Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 6054 Location: My own little piece of reality
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | Fwiw, heller could simply be a coward, and McCain, with nothing to lose and a secure legacy, could take the heat.
Should also mention the two ladies from the GOP who had courage the whole way. |
Yeah, McCain's getting all the attention but Collins and Murkowski are the real heroes IMO.
Alaska and Maine, two edges of the Union that held the line all the way thru. _________________ “There is always light if only we're brave enough to see it, if only we're brave enough to be it.” --Amanda Gorman |
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Dladi Vidac Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 4330 Location: Meeting the man who met Andy Griffith.
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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One of the finest internet moments of all time. Thanks for posting CD. _________________ "The best there is. The best there was. The best there ever will be.", said Bret Hart regarding the Los Angeles Lakers. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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SweetP wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Fwiw, heller could simply be a coward, and McCain, with nothing to lose and a secure legacy, could take the heat.
Should also mention the two ladies from the GOP who had courage the whole way. |
Yeah, McCain's getting all the attention but Collins and Murkowski are the real heroes IMO.
Alaska and Maine, two edges of the Union that held the line all the way thru. |
They absolutely deserve credit, yes.
I'm also with Wilt as far as the Medicare narrative goes. Heck, I'm a big believer in single-payer. |
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Wilt LG Contributor
Joined: 29 Dec 2002 Posts: 13711
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Single-payer universal healthcare is my dream, but single-payer is another term that means nothing to most people. If the Republicans fail to pass something and there's a lot of frustration with the lack of progress, the Democrats have to make sure people are emotionally attached to their new proposal, and there's no better way than using medicare as that emotional tool. "Medicare for all" or "Medicare buy in" would work if the Democrats do it right. The Republicans would have a harder time convincing many of their voters that Medicare is some evil European socialists plot. Reagan tried it in the 60s and he failed and they've been failing ever since. _________________ ¡Hala Madrid! |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17835
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Wilt wrote: | tox wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | tox wrote: | Wilt wrote: | tox wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Interesting suggestion of expanding Medicare to high cost patients, socializing them and keeping the markets healthier... |
This has long been my (conservative) father's preferred method of dealing with high cost patients (like myself). I don't really know enough about healthcare policy to know the downsides, besides that it seems to be the exact kind of program that inevitably ends up underfunded. |
I think it can go further, without approaching single-payer for all. "Medicare buy in" is the most realistic option that all Democrats and many Republicans would support. The Democrats can craft a message that basically tells people that Medicare works very well and if you want to join it before 65, you have to pay a certain amount. But they have to be united in that message. |
I think I'm missing something, so educate me if I am -- how exactly is that different than the reviled public option? |
It is the public option. |
That's what I thought. I don't know why any Republicans would support it based on recent history. |
The reason I said "Medicare buy in" is because it sounds better than "public option." No one hates Medicare, older Republicans use it and love it. So the Democrats have to use the word medicare as much as possible. I'm not talking about Republicans in Congress, I'm talking about Republicans and independents around the country. "Public option" is not a good slogan. It sucks. "If you want to join Medicare, you should be able to buy into it." I think it can work with enough people to take back Congress.
Polling has suggested over the years that a majority of Americans would want to join a government controlled insurance. It's just that a lot of Republicans believe in that, but also hear horror stories from their representatives and talk show hosts of how Europeans are all dying waiting for surgeries for 10 years. And it's because Democrats haven't sold that message well. |
Ah I see your point. Well, I for one hope the Dems go ahead and try your approach. I've always found them to be terrible at branding compared to Republicans. |
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SweetP Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 6054 Location: My own little piece of reality
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Not that he will listen
Quote: | President Trump recorded a remarkable trifecta on Thursday. In fewer than 24 hours, he was rebuked by the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the chief scout executive for the Boy Scouts of America. |
And didn't get his "win" on healthcare either. _________________ “There is always light if only we're brave enough to see it, if only we're brave enough to be it.” --Amanda Gorman |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29150 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:15 am Post subject: |
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kikanga wrote: | Update on Skinny Repeal:
-Senate "vote-a-rama" is starting in 30 minutes.
-Should be a long "vote-a-rama". Dems are going to put forth a ton of amendments that are pretty much empty gestures. Since the GOP majority won't vote for any of them. Because you know... the Dem amendments would actually provide people healthcare.
- McCain, Graham, and another GOP Republican said they'd vote for it if the House assures them skinny repeal isn't the final bill. They want the House to promise to hold "conference" where the skinny repeal bill can be added to.
-- Paul Ryan had this as a response: https://twitter.com/BenjySarlin/status/890716180721414145
McCain, Graham, and the 3rd GOP senator will vote for it IMO. Skinny repeal will pass .
If you read the link carefully. Ryan made no promises. But McCain and company are just looking for a reason to fold.
And the House might just pass skinny repeal as is. With Trump signing it. The Right is desperate for a legislative "win". |
God I was so wrong!
But I'm so happy to be wrong. Graham and that other senator folded to that wish washy assurance from Ryan (in that link).
But not McCain. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:24 am Post subject: |
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Looks like I read McCain right. Have to admit I allowed myself to be swayed by some in the forum for a minute. I thought the bill had another step to move on and McCain would vote no. He did in dramatic fashion. For my momentary indecision I offer John Sidney McCain III a sincere apology.
I also said some time ago, sooner or later Republicans were going to turn on Trump, that's starting to come to fruition. Republicans see attempts to form a oligarchy. Trump wants to be king.
Our Founding Fathers put checks and balances in constitution. The failing of Trumpcare last night is a great example of why.
Next up Russia. A Russian sanctions bill will be put on Trump's desk soon. Checks and balances, he can veto the bill but it won't make a difference, Congress can and I believe will, override it.
New phrase coined, FAILURE FRIDAY
I've never seen a more dysfunctional administration in my life. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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hellsling Star Player
Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 1833
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:46 am Post subject: |
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The whole process was ridiculousness.
Mccain, Collins, and Murkowski were the only adults in the room that wouldn't eat the BS the GOP was shoveling.
Yes we will pass this skinny repeal if you "pinkie promise" it would never become law - GOP Senate to House GOP |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:08 am Post subject: |
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The women did the heavy lifting, the man got all the credit, or, how the Republican repeal failed
John McCain provided a crucial vote to kill “skinny” repeal of Obamacare Thursday night, and he deserves credit for doing the right thing. But we need to talk about how much credit he’s getting—and who’s being overlooked. Because this:
Cathleen Deckker Twitter: Through-line on healthcare: Rep leaders blew off GOP women Sens in crafting bills; cable now ignoring Collins/Murkowski to focus on McCain
Senate Republicans originally put together an all-male panel to kill Obamacare, shutting the six Republican women in the Senate out of the process. Then that group fell apart and the repeal bills, such as they were, were crafted in secret—still without input from the very women who were making clear that their votes would be hard to get.
Collins and Murkowski voted against Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s series of poorly thought through, cruel bills from the beginning. Donald Trump’s interior secretary was dispatched to threaten Alaska's energy industry over Murkowski’s vote. She and Collins withstood days if not weeks of pressure, and without them, McCain’s vote wouldn’t have been decisive. Let’s also not forget that McCain provided the crucial vote to get the Senate to the skinny repeal vote in the first place. And now the headlines are all about the night John McCain killed the GOP's health-care fight, or say that McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repeal Obamacare. And the cable news channels (minus Fox) are oohing and aahing over him.
I would just add that he lied in the process. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:33 am Post subject: |
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I listened to McCain's speech prior to his voting yes. I had the feeling he was voting to move the bill not to approve it. In the aftermath I thought I had been duped. My initial belief came to fruition.
I allowed the opinions of posters who I respect dissuade me. I'm usually more steadfast in my positions. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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splashmtn Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016 Posts: 3961
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:39 am Post subject: |
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tox wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Interesting suggestion of expanding Medicare to high cost patients, socializing them and keeping the markets healthier... |
This has long been my (conservative) father's preferred method of dealing with high cost patients (like myself). I don't really know enough about healthcare policy to know the downsides, besides that it seems to be the exact kind of program that inevitably ends up underfunded.
edit: I should clarify that his preference isn't using Medicare necessarily, but rather just having the government take care of those who distort the market through some socialization mechanism. | not a horrible idea. but again... why do we keep doing this? stop beating around the bush and go single payer already.
if you do that, it takes care of everyone including those that are or end up being...high cost people due to their illnesses. |
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splashmtn Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016 Posts: 3961
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:41 am Post subject: |
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DaMuleRules wrote: | The women did the heavy lifting, the man got all the credit, or, how the Republican repeal failed
John McCain provided a crucial vote to kill “skinny” repeal of Obamacare Thursday night, and he deserves credit for doing the right thing. But we need to talk about how much credit he’s getting—and who’s being overlooked. Because this:
Cathleen Deckker Twitter: Through-line on healthcare: Rep leaders blew off GOP women Sens in crafting bills; cable now ignoring Collins/Murkowski to focus on McCain
Senate Republicans originally put together an all-male panel to kill Obamacare, shutting the six Republican women in the Senate out of the process. Then that group fell apart and the repeal bills, such as they were, were crafted in secret—still without input from the very women who were making clear that their votes would be hard to get.
Collins and Murkowski voted against Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s series of poorly thought through, cruel bills from the beginning. Donald Trump’s interior secretary was dispatched to threaten Alaska's energy industry over Murkowski’s vote. She and Collins withstood days if not weeks of pressure, and without them, McCain’s vote wouldn’t have been decisive. Let’s also not forget that McCain provided the crucial vote to get the Senate to the skinny repeal vote in the first place. And now the headlines are all about the night John McCain killed the GOP's health-care fight, or say that McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repeal Obamacare. And the cable news channels (minus Fox) are oohing and aahing over him.
I would just add that he lied in the process. | thank you for telling the WHOLE truth.
and you can see in this very thread the past page or so. where people really think mccain did it and is acting like he's darn near a hero. not understanding the above information you presented.
This is how we ended up with trump as president. This is how we end up with a lot of these bad politicians on both sides of the aisle. People do not pay attention to detail. They like headlines and thats what the media will keep giving them. They get their headline and run with it as if its gospel. This is why my hope that we as voters will not do much better the next time around when it comes time to vote out the idiots(not just the president) and vote in people that might for once do something for "we the people". i'm losing faith in my fellow citizens. |
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hoopschick29 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:47 am Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | I listened to McCain's speech prior to his voting yes. I had the feeling he was voting to move the bill not to approve it. In the aftermath I thought I had been duped. My initial belief came to fruition.
I allowed the opinions of posters who I respect dissuade me. I'm usually more steadfast in my positions. |
I guess McCain decided he wanted to try and get into Heaven, after all. He might just avoid the Lakes of Fire, yet. That being said...
No one like John McCain should have anything to do with taking health care away from millions of people...NOTHING. And yet he has. The question is not whether or not John McCain wants to screw over people. It's HOW bad. He doesn't agree with his party on the extent of the screw-age. McCain may merely want to kick dirt in the face of Americans while his party wants to push them completely over a cliff.
So if voting no on a bill that screws millions of people over is all we need to think highly of someone...then the bar is set really low. _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
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City_Dawg Retired Number
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 46878 Location: Coming soon and striking at your borders.
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:53 am Post subject: |
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DaMuleRules wrote: | The women did the heavy lifting, the man got all the credit, or, how the Republican repeal failed
John McCain provided a crucial vote to kill “skinny” repeal of Obamacare Thursday night, and he deserves credit for doing the right thing. But we need to talk about how much credit he’s gettingand who’s being overlooked. Because this:
Cathleen Deckker Twitter: Through-line on healthcare: Rep leaders blew off GOP women Sens in crafting bills; cable now ignoring Collins/Murkowski to focus on McCain
Senate Republicans originally put together an all-male panel to kill Obamacare, shutting the six Republican women in the Senate out of the process. Then that group fell apart and the repeal bills, such as they were, were crafted in secret—still without input from the very women who were making clear that their votes would be hard to get.
Collins and Murkowski voted against Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s series of poorly thought through, cruel bills from the beginning. Donald Trump’s interior secretary was dispatched to threaten Alaska's energy industry over Murkowski’s vote. She and Collins withstood days if not weeks of pressure, and without them, McCain’s vote wouldn’t have been decisive. Let’s also not forget that McCain provided the crucial vote to get the Senate to the skinny repeal vote in the first place. And now the headlines are all about the night John McCain killed the GOP's health-care fight, or say that McCain, two other GOP senators join Democrats to reject last-ditch effort to repeal Obamacare. And the cable news channels (minus Fox) are oohing and aahing over him.
I would just add that he lied in the process. |
Gotta agree with this. Last nights theatrics certainly were dramatic, but were unnecessary. I guess McCain wanted to publicly screw over McConnel? _________________ *sighs*
!... |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:54 am Post subject: |
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hoopschick29 wrote: | jodeke wrote: | I listened to McCain's speech prior to his voting yes. I had the feeling he was voting to move the bill not to approve it. In the aftermath I thought I had been duped. My initial belief came to fruition.
I allowed the opinions of posters who I respect dissuade me. I'm usually more steadfast in my positions. |
I guess McCain decided he wanted to try and get into Heaven, after all. He might just avoid the Lakes of Fire, yet. That being said...
No one like John McCain should have anything to do with taking health care away from millions of people...NOTHING. And yet he has. The question is not whether or not John McCain wants to screw over people. It's HOW bad. He doesn't agree with his party on the extent of the screw-age. McCain may merely want to kick dirt in the face of Americans while his party wants to push them completely over a cliff.
So if voting no on a bill that screws millions of people over is all we need to think highly of someone...then the bar is set really low. |
I'm not familiar with McCain's voting record. I'm a Died In The Wool Democrat. In this particular instance I thought McCain was doing the right thing from the begining. Turns out he voted as I thought he would. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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