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jodeke
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
jodeke wrote:
I SMH in wonder. Does Donald really believe this. It's been debunked time and time again.

Watching, listening to Trump causes me to question his mental state. It's never been done in our history but his actions leads me to ask, can his mental status be questioned and action taken? I believe it's time for a Rorschach test.

Trump's tweet about General Pershing, pig's blood and Islamic extremism is pure bologna

LINK

Quote:
“He took the 50 terrorists, and he took 50 men and he dipped 50 bullets in pigs’ blood -- you heard that, right? He took 50 bullets, and he dipped them in pigs’ blood. And he had his men load his rifles, and he lined up the 50 people, and they shot 49 of those people. And the 50th person, he said: You go back to your people, and you tell them what happened. And for 25 years, there wasn’t a problem. Okay? Twenty-five years, there wasn’t a problem.”


Of course it is. It was the first time he said it when he was on the campaign trail.

But sometimes you have to play the hits. It's what the crowd wants to hear.


Is there anything in our constitution that would allow Trumps competency be doctor tested? Donald's statements are out and out lies and border on lunacy.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
adkindo wrote:


it took me a second because I kept picturing a statue of an orange car and wondering why anyone would make that statue.....but in your example, I think you are saying 60% of the citizens desire to keep the monument, while 40% desire to remove the monument? And these numbers would be reflected in their representative government (City Counsel)? The answer is it should not be removed.


And if south central Los Angeles wants to build a statue honoring the man who shot Reagan? If the majority says it's cool. Then it's fine with you right?


If they want to build a statue of John Hinckley Jr., why would I care living on the east coast of Florida? Maybe if they planted some nice flowers around it, it would spruce up the place...

btw...

POLL: Most Black Americans Don’t Want Confederate Statues Removed

Quote:
Most black Americans do not think Confederate statues should be removed because they are offensive, a Marist poll released Thursday found.

Forty-four percent of African Americans believe the Confederate statues should stay in place, while 11 percent said they’re unsure. The remaining 40 percent of African Americans polled said the statues should be removed.


http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/17/poll-most-black-americans-dont-want-confederate-statues-removed/
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
jodeke wrote:
I SMH in wonder. Does Donald really believe this. It's been debunked time and time again.

Watching, listening to Trump causes me to question his mental state. It's never been done in our history but his actions leads me to ask, can his mental status be questioned and action taken? I believe it's time for a Rorschach test.

Trump's tweet about General Pershing, pig's blood and Islamic extremism is pure bologna

LINK

Quote:
“He took the 50 terrorists, and he took 50 men and he dipped 50 bullets in pigs’ blood -- you heard that, right? He took 50 bullets, and he dipped them in pigs’ blood. And he had his men load his rifles, and he lined up the 50 people, and they shot 49 of those people. And the 50th person, he said: You go back to your people, and you tell them what happened. And for 25 years, there wasn’t a problem. Okay? Twenty-five years, there wasn’t a problem.”


Of course it is. It was the first time he said it when he was on the campaign trail.

But sometimes you have to play the hits. It's what the crowd wants to hear.


Is there anything in our constitution that would allow Trumps competency be doctor tested? Donald's statements are out and out lies and border on lunacy.


Section 4 of the 25th Amendment.....but it is much more difficult than impeachment in my opinion.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
kikanga wrote:
adkindo wrote:


it took me a second because I kept picturing a statue of an orange car and wondering why anyone would make that statue.....but in your example, I think you are saying 60% of the citizens desire to keep the monument, while 40% desire to remove the monument? And these numbers would be reflected in their representative government (City Counsel)? The answer is it should not be removed.


And if south central Los Angeles wants to build a statue honoring the man who shot Reagan? If the majority says it's cool. Then it's fine with you right?


If they want to build a statue of John Hinckley Jr., why would I care living on the east coast of Florida? Maybe if they planted some nice flowers around it, it would spruce up the place...

btw...

POLL: Most Black Americans Don’t Want Confederate Statues Removed

Quote:
Most black Americans do not think Confederate statues should be removed because they are offensive, a Marist poll released Thursday found.

Forty-four percent of African Americans believe the Confederate statues should stay in place, while 11 percent said they’re unsure. The remaining 40 percent of African Americans polled said the statues should be removed.


http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/17/poll-most-black-americans-dont-want-confederate-statues-removed/


Are you seriously equating Hinckley to the confederacy? I'm not familiar with the site you posted or it's credibility. I find it hard to believe Blacks don't want the statues removed.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
kikanga wrote:
adkindo wrote:


it took me a second because I kept picturing a statue of an orange car and wondering why anyone would make that statue.....but in your example, I think you are saying 60% of the citizens desire to keep the monument, while 40% desire to remove the monument? And these numbers would be reflected in their representative government (City Counsel)? The answer is it should not be removed.


And if south central Los Angeles wants to build a statue honoring the man who shot Reagan? If the majority says it's cool. Then it's fine with you right?


If they want to build a statue of John Hinckley Jr., why would I care living on the east coast of Florida? Maybe if they planted some nice flowers around it, it would spruce up the place...

btw...

POLL: Most Black Americans Don’t Want Confederate Statues Removed

Quote:
Most black Americans do not think Confederate statues should be removed because they are offensive, a Marist poll released Thursday found.

Forty-four percent of African Americans believe the Confederate statues should stay in place, while 11 percent said they’re unsure. The remaining 40 percent of African Americans polled said the statues should be removed.


http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/17/poll-most-black-americans-dont-want-confederate-statues-removed/


Are you seriously equating Hinckley to the confederacy? I'm not familiar with the site you posted or it's credibility. I find it hard to believe Blacks don't want the statues removed.


Why are you asking me about Hinkley, or comparing it to the confederacy? I was responding to a specific question from kikanga, and I dont think he insinuated any kind of equivalency....he was just asking my thoughts on a potential event.

The site does not matter, the poll was done by Marist which is often a favorite of those on the left.

Link


Last edited by adkindo on Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
kikanga wrote:
adkindo wrote:


it took me a second because I kept picturing a statue of an orange car and wondering why anyone would make that statue.....but in your example, I think you are saying 60% of the citizens desire to keep the monument, while 40% desire to remove the monument? And these numbers would be reflected in their representative government (City Counsel)? The answer is it should not be removed.


And if south central Los Angeles wants to build a statue honoring the man who shot Reagan? If the majority says it's cool. Then it's fine with you right?


If they want to build a statue of John Hinckley Jr., why would I care living on the east coast of Florida? Maybe if they planted some nice flowers around it, it would spruce up the place...

btw...

POLL: Most Black Americans Don’t Want Confederate Statues Removed

Quote:
Most black Americans do not think Confederate statues should be removed because they are offensive, a Marist poll released Thursday found.

Forty-four percent of African Americans believe the Confederate statues should stay in place, while 11 percent said they’re unsure. The remaining 40 percent of African Americans polled said the statues should be removed.


http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/17/poll-most-black-americans-dont-want-confederate-statues-removed/


Are you seriously equating Hinckley to the confederacy? I'm not familiar with the site you posted or it's credibility. I find it hard to believe Blacks don't want the statues removed.


Just wanted to test adkindo. Make sure his position on locals determining statue appropriateness applies when it's a statue he personally doesn't like.

Statues aren't nearly as prevalent as Confederate flags.
Quote:
A majority of white Americans see the Confederate flag as a sign of Southern pride, while nearly two-thirds of African-Americans see it as a sign of racism. The racial gap is especially large in the South. By 62% to 28%, Southern whites say the flag is a symbol of Southern pride; by 68% to 9%, Southern blacks say it is a symbol of racism.

https://today.yougov.com/news/2017/08/16/trumps-domestic-crisis-charlottesville-and-white-n/
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject:

Good ole Maria Chappelle-Nadal creating headlines.....

Missouri Senator: ‘I Hope Trump Is Assassinated!’

Quote:
"I hope Trump is assassinated!" Missouri state Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal, D-University City, wrote during a morning Facebook exchange, referring to Republican President Donald Trump.

U.S. Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo.: "I condemn it. It's outrageous. And she should resign.”

U.S. Rep. William Lacy Clay, D-St. Louis: "(C)alling for the assassination of the President is a federal crime. . . . (She is) an embarrassment to our state. She should resign immediately.”

Missouri Democratic Party Chair Stephen Webber: "The . . . Party will absolutely not tolerate calls for the assassination of the President. I believe she should resign.”

Missouri Senate Democratic Caucus leader Sen. Gina Walsh: "(She) should be ashamed of herself for adding her voice to this toxic environment."


http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/mccaskill-clay-and-others-call-for-mo-senator-to-resign/article_406059d6-1aa4-52fc-89ee-2a6a69baaf2e.html
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
jodeke wrote:
adkindo wrote:
kikanga wrote:
adkindo wrote:


it took me a second because I kept picturing a statue of an orange car and wondering why anyone would make that statue.....but in your example, I think you are saying 60% of the citizens desire to keep the monument, while 40% desire to remove the monument? And these numbers would be reflected in their representative government (City Counsel)? The answer is it should not be removed.


And if south central Los Angeles wants to build a statue honoring the man who shot Reagan? If the majority says it's cool. Then it's fine with you right?


If they want to build a statue of John Hinckley Jr., why would I care living on the east coast of Florida? Maybe if they planted some nice flowers around it, it would spruce up the place...

btw...

POLL: Most Black Americans Don’t Want Confederate Statues Removed

Quote:
Most black Americans do not think Confederate statues should be removed because they are offensive, a Marist poll released Thursday found.

Forty-four percent of African Americans believe the Confederate statues should stay in place, while 11 percent said they’re unsure. The remaining 40 percent of African Americans polled said the statues should be removed.


http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/17/poll-most-black-americans-dont-want-confederate-statues-removed/


Are you seriously equating Hinckley to the confederacy? I'm not familiar with the site you posted or it's credibility. I find it hard to believe Blacks don't want the statues removed.


Why are you asking me about Hinkley, or comparing it to the confederacy? I was responding to a specific question from kikanga, and I dont think he insinuated any kind of equivalency....he was just asking my thoughts on a potential event.

The site does not matter, the poll was done by Marist which is often a favorite of those on the left.

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/misc/usapolls/us170814_PBS/NPR_PBS%20NewsHour_Marist%20Poll_National%20Nature%20of%20the%20Sample%20and%20Tables_August%2017,%202017.pdf


OK. The response makes sense. I still don't believe the poll results.

Relating to statues. RE-POST

The confederacy is a part of American history. As such it should be taught/displayed. Taught in schools, displayed in museum like settings. It's something to be remembered not revered.

Statues are symbols. Symbols denote pride. There is no pride relating to slavery and it's atrocities and a war that took the lives of 620,000 Americans.

They should be removed from government land and public places but not torn down the way some people are doing.

Can you edit your link. It's stretching the page.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:


Can you edit your link. It's stretching the page.


I did, but I guess your quote keeps it in there? Sorry, did not realize it would do that.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:15 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
kikanga wrote:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHYtmUlW0AAZOa8.jpg


To be fair. That 74% was just honoring "the history and culture of our great nation".

So if Trump is advocating killing that Islamic 24% with bullets dipped in pigs blood.
What's the equivalent for that 74%? Make them watch Obama's inauguration in a dark room till they die?
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tox
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
tox wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
For tox and fanofbynum, most of the confederate monuments were not put up after the war, but rather much later, starting just before the turn of the century and into the 1920s. The largest purveyor of these monuments was the Daughters of the Confederacy, a very racist revisionist group that allied itself with the rise of the second KKK (which has the dubious honor of being even more violent than the first). They, along with the film Birth of a Nation, and other works such as the novel (and later film) Gone With The Wind, helped to create the concept of the Lost Cause, where the south was honorable and fighting for a just way of life, and slavery was a greater good (civilizing the savages).

This was the period of massive lynchings and the rise of Jim Crow, and most of these monuments were erectednat courthouses and public buildings and squares bith to perpetuate the myth and tondrive home the primacy of these folks. The monuments were put up in an explicitly white supremacist movement, and the concept spread outside the southern states.

Thanks Omar. I'm trying to come up with a charitable interpretation of why people would support Confederate monuments (and leaders) that doesn't have to do with supporting the racist ideology it represents, and I can't think of any. This context just makes it worse.


In fairness, there was a lot of romanticism of The Lost Cause to the point where you read things like, "they just want to preserve their culture", and, "they didn't fight for slavery (well, mostly, and not all of them)", and , "they are just remembering a time when they were and independent nation" from well-meaning people.

The problem is you can't separate the major elements of the culture from the culture, or the events from the history. We can no more celebrate the confederacy while excising the treason and the slavery than we can celebrate the third reich by excising the genocide and attack on other countries. But that's what has ultimately been done for a lot of people.


So, the charitable defense of these folks is that they just haven't critically examined the realities underpinning this romanticized "Lost Cause"? Defense by ignorance, if you will. I think this is the explanation I was looking for with my OP. Appreciate it... I don't think I was ever taught the Lost Cause in any level of US history here in California (including university), so evidently that's where my disconnect was.
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tox
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Even as the White House is at extremely low approval ratings, the mid-terms is a numbers game where the the Democrats are almost certainly going to lose seats. As of today, the Republicans have a real chance at picking up enough seats to clear the 60 vote threshold.

http://cookpolitical.com/ratings/senate-race-ratings


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-congressional-map-is-historically-biased-toward-the-gop/
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Even as the White House is at extremely low approval ratings, the mid-terms is a numbers game where the the Democrats are almost certainly going to lose seats. As of today, the Republicans have a real chance at picking up enough seats to clear the 60 vote threshold.

http://cookpolitical.com/ratings/senate-race-ratings


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-congressional-map-is-historically-biased-toward-the-gop/


GOP definitely plays politic better than the DNC
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:32 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
tox wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Even as the White House is at extremely low approval ratings, the mid-terms is a numbers game where the the Democrats are almost certainly going to lose seats. As of today, the Republicans have a real chance at picking up enough seats to clear the 60 vote threshold.

http://cookpolitical.com/ratings/senate-race-ratings


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-congressional-map-is-historically-biased-toward-the-gop/


GOP definitely plays politic better than the DNC


in regards to the Senate, that is nothing related to anything really within the control of the RNC or DNC.....just kind of "the way the cookie crumbles" with population shifts.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
governator wrote:
tox wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Even as the White House is at extremely low approval ratings, the mid-terms is a numbers game where the the Democrats are almost certainly going to lose seats. As of today, the Republicans have a real chance at picking up enough seats to clear the 60 vote threshold.

http://cookpolitical.com/ratings/senate-race-ratings


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-congressional-map-is-historically-biased-toward-the-gop/


GOP definitely plays politic better than the DNC


in regards to the Senate, that is nothing related to anything really within the control of the RNC or DNC.....just kind of "the way the cookie crumbles" with population shifts.


No, it's gerrymandering but whoever in majority does it and GOP is just better at it.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
adkindo wrote:
governator wrote:
tox wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Even as the White House is at extremely low approval ratings, the mid-terms is a numbers game where the the Democrats are almost certainly going to lose seats. As of today, the Republicans have a real chance at picking up enough seats to clear the 60 vote threshold.

http://cookpolitical.com/ratings/senate-race-ratings


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-congressional-map-is-historically-biased-toward-the-gop/


GOP definitely plays politic better than the DNC


in regards to the Senate, that is nothing related to anything really within the control of the RNC or DNC.....just kind of "the way the cookie crumbles" with population shifts.


No, it's gerrymandering but whoever in majority does it and GOP is just better at it.


you can't gerrymander the Senate unless you created new state lines.....2 Senators per state....been that way since the beginning. The lines are permanent and do not change.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
governator wrote:
adkindo wrote:
governator wrote:
tox wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Even as the White House is at extremely low approval ratings, the mid-terms is a numbers game where the the Democrats are almost certainly going to lose seats. As of today, the Republicans have a real chance at picking up enough seats to clear the 60 vote threshold.

http://cookpolitical.com/ratings/senate-race-ratings


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-congressional-map-is-historically-biased-toward-the-gop/


GOP definitely plays politic better than the DNC


in regards to the Senate, that is nothing related to anything really within the control of the RNC or DNC.....just kind of "the way the cookie crumbles" with population shifts.


No, it's gerrymandering but whoever in majority does it and GOP is just better at it.


you can't gerrymander the Senate unless you created new state lines.....2 Senators per state....been that way since the beginning. The lines are permanent and do not change.


right, sorry, meant the house races
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Forcing down monuments of evil and diseased human hearts is bad?

I am a proponent of adding a required curriculum to all k-12

"Future Class"

Enough of this horrifying history..

HOW DO YOU want to live now

I am guessing the KKK were friendly to gays and jews and handicapped etc..
The civil war was fight to protect the right to own human lives? shouldn't that be enough to demand those peoples be relegated to the (bleep) books?

I don't think the guy in germany who did a sieg heil should have been punched but I do believe in their goals to remove the evils of their past

What good are those statues.. tell us that?


No, that wasn't why the Civil War was fought



Is the Cornerstone speech by Vice President of the Confederacy Alexander Stephens not canon?

Quote:
Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.


I'm unfamiliar with any backlash he received for this. Did the Confederacy make steps to get away from this?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject:

Theseus wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Forcing down monuments of evil and diseased human hearts is bad?

I am a proponent of adding a required curriculum to all k-12

"Future Class"

Enough of this horrifying history..

HOW DO YOU want to live now

I am guessing the KKK were friendly to gays and jews and handicapped etc..
The civil war was fight to protect the right to own human lives? shouldn't that be enough to demand those peoples be relegated to the (bleep) books?

I don't think the guy in germany who did a sieg heil should have been punched but I do believe in their goals to remove the evils of their past

What good are those statues.. tell us that?


No, that wasn't why the Civil War was fought



Is the Cornerstone speech by Vice President of the Confederacy Alexander Stephens not canon?

Quote:
Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.


I'm unfamiliar with any backlash he received for this. Did the Confederacy make steps to get away from this?


and the leader of the North and President of the United States of America, Abraham Lincoln.....

Quote:
I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position.


the point is trying to pass complete judgement on the moral standing of a historical figure utilizing a modern moral compass is often a futile effort...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject:

Simply put, there is no way to venerate the Confederacy without generating what it stood for. "Not all southerners supported slavery" and "many in the north were racists too" are both true facts that do not change this central fact. The Confederacy and slavery and white supremacy and treason are impossible to disentangle from each other.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:


the point is trying to pass complete judgement on the moral standing of a historical figure utilizing a modern moral compass is often a futile effort...


Yes but

Why did some people not own slaves and know in that time in history that it was a horrible thing to do to a human being...

Why were there NON Slave owners..

History has proven those people fought to own human lives.. sort of the same way our Prison Industrial Complex passes bills to own human lives...

Either way.. Yes we can! judge these people in historical context by simply finding people who knew better and were alive in those days
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:45 pm    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
adkindo wrote:


the point is trying to pass complete judgement on the moral standing of a historical figure utilizing a modern moral compass is often a futile effort...


Yes but

Why did some people not own slaves and know in that time in history that it was a horrible thing to do to a human being...

Why were there NON Slave owners..

History has proven those people fought to own human lives.. sort of the same way our Prison Industrial Complex passes bills to own human lives...

Either way.. Yes we can! judge these people in historical context by simply finding people who knew better and were alive in those days


in regards to your overall thought of why....I cannot tell you....we have all struggled to understand how any human could look at a fellow man as property.

In regards to what the war was over, there is no doubt that slavery was an element, but the issue was pushed to the front as the primary issue after the rebellion had already began as a key strategic move by Lincoln to keep England (very anti-slavery) out of the war, because England had very strong commercial relationships with the Southern States. Another quote from Lincoln before the rebellion began, which illustrates the initial issue was not solely slavery.....

Quote:
I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:

Either way.. Yes we can! judge these people in historical context by simply finding people who knew better and were alive in those days


they were not hard to find, they were called Republicans.
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SweetP
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:

Either way.. Yes we can! judge these people in historical context by simply finding people who knew better and were alive in those days


they were not hard to find, they were called Republicans.


Who would now be Democrats.

Living in the past seems to be characteristic of the Right.

In my lifetime (and yours unless you quite elderly), the Republicans are the party on the wrong side of history.

And "Proud Republicans" are fighting a losing battle with moral superiority unless they face up to what they have become.

What they have advocated and what they have elected and continue to support. It is not enough to say "oh I don't support Trump". The GOP owns Trump because they thought they could use him to rubber stamp their agenda and unless it comes out vehemently against him, they own the path Trump is going down.
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