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jodeke
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 Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | You're arguing a nonexistent point. Of course he wants to not be attacked, so he can stay in power. |
I'm not arguing I'm referring to you saying | Quote: | | He's just trying to get stuff and stay in power. Nothing more. |
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | You're arguing a nonexistent point. Of course he wants to not be attacked, so he can stay in power. |
I'm not arguing I'm referring to you saying | Quote: | | He's just trying to get stuff and stay in power. Nothing more. |
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Not being attacked is nothing more. It is part of staying in power. It's like saying he doesn't want to be hurt, nothing more, and being rebutted with, "but, he also doesn't want to be shot at". Of course he doesn't, because he could be hurt.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | You're arguing a nonexistent point. Of course he wants to not be attacked, so he can stay in power. |
I'm not arguing I'm referring to you saying | Quote: | | He's just trying to get stuff and stay in power. Nothing more. |
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Not being attacked is nothing more. It is part of staying in power. It's like saying he doesn't want to be hurt, nothing more, and being rebutted with, "but, he also doesn't want to be shot at". Of course he doesn't, because he could be hurt. |
Have to give you credit for spinning efficiency. A+
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | You're arguing a nonexistent point. Of course he wants to not be attacked, so he can stay in power. |
I'm not arguing I'm referring to you saying | Quote: | | He's just trying to get stuff and stay in power. Nothing more. |
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Not being attacked is nothing more. It is part of staying in power. It's like saying he doesn't want to be hurt, nothing more, and being rebutted with, "but, he also doesn't want to be shot at". Of course he doesn't, because he could be hurt. |
Have to give you credit for spinning. |
Not spinning. It is simple logic that not being attacked is a component of staying in power.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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20,000
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Reports coming out of St Louis of police escalating the situation and attacking people who are doing nothing but standing on the sidewalks. Meanwhile they (the police) are chanting "whose streets? Our streets!"
_________________
Courage doesn't always roar.
Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | You're arguing a nonexistent point. Of course he wants to not be attacked, so he can stay in power. |
I'm not arguing I'm referring to you saying | Quote: | | He's just trying to get stuff and stay in power. Nothing more. |
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Not being attacked is nothing more. It is part of staying in power. It's like saying he doesn't want to be hurt, nothing more, and being rebutted with, "but, he also doesn't want to be shot at". Of course he doesn't, because he could be hurt. |
Have to give you credit for spinning. |
Not spinning. It is simple logic that not being attacked is a component of staying in power. |
That's not what you said. You didn't include components. You said nothing more.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | You're arguing a nonexistent point. Of course he wants to not be attacked, so he can stay in power. |
I'm not arguing I'm referring to you saying | Quote: | | He's just trying to get stuff and stay in power. Nothing more. |
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Not being attacked is nothing more. It is part of staying in power. It's like saying he doesn't want to be hurt, nothing more, and being rebutted with, "but, he also doesn't want to be shot at". Of course he doesn't, because he could be hurt. |
Have to give you credit for spinning. |
Not spinning. It is simple logic that not being attacked is a component of staying in power. |
That's not what you said. You didn't include components. You said nothing more. |
Do we need to discuss the meaning of more? He wants to breathe, eat, (bleep), sleep too. Do I need to include those in a statement of his top line goals? No. He wants to stay in power and get stuff. Everything else is a component of those, not something more. Do we really have to do this?
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | You're arguing a nonexistent point. Of course he wants to not be attacked, so he can stay in power. |
I'm not arguing I'm referring to you saying | Quote: | | He's just trying to get stuff and stay in power. Nothing more. |
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Not being attacked is nothing more. It is part of staying in power. It's like saying he doesn't want to be hurt, nothing more, and being rebutted with, "but, he also doesn't want to be shot at". Of course he doesn't, because he could be hurt. |
Have to give you credit for spinning. |
Not spinning. It is simple logic that not being attacked is a component of staying in power. |
That's not what you said. You didn't include components. You said nothing more. |
Do we need to discuss the meaning of more? He wants to breathe, eat, (bleep), sleep too. Do I need to include those in a statement of his top line goals? No. He wants to stay in power and get stuff. Everything else is a component of those, not something more. Do we really have to do this? |
Nope!
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 20,000 wrote: | | Reports coming out of St Louis of police escalating the situation and attacking people who are doing nothing but standing on the sidewalks. Meanwhile they (the police) are chanting "whose streets? Our streets!" |
It's this kind of thing that makes me wonder if things aren't going to get a whole lot worse before they hopefully get better.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | 20,000 wrote: | | Reports coming out of St Louis of police escalating the situation and attacking people who are doing nothing but standing on the sidewalks. Meanwhile they (the police) are chanting "whose streets? Our streets!" |
It's this kind of thing that makes me wonder if things aren't going to get a whole lot worse before they hopefully get better. |
The police have been racist and fascist for a long time, and much if the populace is fine with that.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | 20,000 wrote: | | Reports coming out of St Louis of police escalating the situation and attacking people who are doing nothing but standing on the sidewalks. Meanwhile they (the police) are chanting "whose streets? Our streets!" |
It's this kind of thing that makes me wonder if things aren't going to get a whole lot worse before they hopefully get better. |
We're living in dangerous times.
St. Louis police probe whether officers chanted 'Whose streets? Our streets'
LINK
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | 20,000 wrote: | | Reports coming out of St Louis of police escalating the situation and attacking people who are doing nothing but standing on the sidewalks. Meanwhile they (the police) are chanting "whose streets? Our streets!" |
It's this kind of thing that makes me wonder if things aren't going to get a whole lot worse before they hopefully get better. |
The police have been racist and fascist for a long time, and much if the populace is fine with that. |
Oh I get that. Recent events have just upped the ante . . .
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Buck32
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Joined: 30 Apr 2001
Posts: 7329
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | 20,000 wrote: | | Reports coming out of St Louis of police escalating the situation and attacking people who are doing nothing but standing on the sidewalks. Meanwhile they (the police) are chanting "whose streets? Our streets!" |
It's this kind of thing that makes me wonder if things aren't going to get a whole lot worse before they hopefully get better. |
We're living in dangerous times.
St. Louis police probe whether officers chanted 'Whose streets? Our streets'
LINK |
They were wearing brown shirts ...
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“Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.”
― Isaac Asimov |
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tox
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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I like Coates but the premise of his article was honestly really dumb. He asked why we focused on working class whites when technically all subsets of whites went for Trump. But of course the point is that unlike the other whites that voted Trump, they weren't always Republicans. That's why the focus is on them, and to paint all white people under a single brush stroke is both reductive and... well, stupid.
I definitely side with Packer here. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see why Kim would publicly pursue nuclear capabilities, unless he's aiming to use them. He already has us at a checkmate. His position is secure.
We can't attack N. Korea TODAY! If we try to attack North Korea or kick Kim out of power. S. Korea (and the American's living there/deployed there) will have to pay the repercussions.
Kim doesn't need nukes just to keep his power. We can't topple his regime now. Even though we probably want to. Keeping Seoul hostage is keeping Kim in power. Not his nuclear program.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Lucky_Shot
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | I don't see why Kim would publicly pursue nuclear capabilities, unless he's aiming to use them. He already has us at a checkmate. His position is secure.
We can't attack N. Korea TODAY! If we try to attack North Korea or kick Kim out of power. S. Korea (and the American's living there/deployed there) will have to pay the repercussions.
Kim doesn't need nukes just to keep his power. We can't topple his regime now. Even though we probably want to. Keeping Seoul hostage is keeping Kim in power. Not his nuclear program. |
For propaganda reasons. If he creates a nuke he can say to his people he can protect them. Also being able to destroy LA at the touch of a button creates more leverage regardless of the past situation |
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tox
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | I don't see why Kim would publicly pursue nuclear capabilities, unless he's aiming to use them. He already has us at a checkmate. His position is secure.
We can't attack N. Korea TODAY! If we try to attack North Korea or kick Kim out of power. S. Korea (and the American's living there/deployed there) will have to pay the repercussions.
Kim doesn't need nukes just to keep his power. We can't topple his regime now. Even though we probably want to. Keeping Seoul hostage is keeping Kim in power. Not his nuclear program. |
Insurance? Especially if/when China is ready for regime change. It's the mother of all trump cards.
Or maybe that the threat of a nuke will allow them to be more aggressive w.r.t. SK, because now every time the US wants to intercede, it needs to consider whether it's worth a nuke potentially hitting them stateside. Hurts our presence in Asia/ the Pacific. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:17 am Post subject: |
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The nuke heightens the risk to south Korea, introduces it to Japan, and puts the us at some theoretical risk as well.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | I don't see why Kim would publicly pursue nuclear capabilities, unless he's aiming to use them. He already has us at a checkmate. His position is secure.
We can't attack N. Korea TODAY! If we try to attack North Korea or kick Kim out of power. S. Korea (and the American's living there/deployed there) will have to pay the repercussions.
Kim doesn't need nukes just to keep his power. We can't topple his regime now. Even though we probably want to. Keeping Seoul hostage is keeping Kim in power. Not his nuclear program. |
Insurance? Especially if/when China is ready for regime change. It's the mother of all trump cards.
Or maybe that the threat of a nuke will allow them to be more aggressive w.r.t. SK, because now every time the US wants to intercede, it needs to consider whether it's worth a nuke potentially hitting them stateside. Hurts our presence in Asia/ the Pacific. |
You're right. A nuclear weapon does give them leverage.
It tough for me to say definitively Kim wants a nuke just so he can use it as a threat.
I take him literally when he says he wants to use weapons.
Maybe if someone could explain to me how Kim would be acting different than he is now, if he really wanted to use a nuke in the future. Then I'd understand.
In any circumstance where a threat is made. It's tough to tell if the aggressor means it, until he actually performs the act.
If someone threatened me personally, I'd take the person's word for it. Until proven otherwise.
Also, I don't think Kim is concerned about mutual assured destruction. That's why he's comfortable parading his nuclear program to the world in the first place.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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20,000
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| Buck32 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | 20,000 wrote: | | Reports coming out of St Louis of police escalating the situation and attacking people who are doing nothing but standing on the sidewalks. Meanwhile they (the police) are chanting "whose streets? Our streets!" |
It's this kind of thing that makes me wonder if things aren't going to get a whole lot worse before they hopefully get better. |
We're living in dangerous times.
St. Louis police probe whether officers chanted 'Whose streets? Our streets'
LINK |
They were wearing brown shirts ... |
| Quote: | | A grainy video circulating online shows a group of officers and the chant can be heard. Carson said he spoke to a police commander at the scene who said any such chant would be unacceptable and he would deal with it. |
Uh huh, sure you will.
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Courage doesn't always roar.
Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | NBC NewsVerified account @NBCNews
Pres. Trump at U.N.: “We will have no choice but to totally destroy North Korea. Rocket Man is on a suicide mission” |
#Embarrassing #Dangerous #Stupid |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:54 am Post subject: |
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So presidential  |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Not saying the tactic Trump is taking is the right one, but what we've done since Clinton hasn't exactly worked swimmingly, has it?
So what's the solution? It's obvious, barring a huge trade war, that our efforts to put pressure on China have done absolutely nothing.
Last edited by DuncanIdaho on Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Roon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Quote: | NBC NewsVerified account @NBCNews
Pres. Trump at U.N.: “We will have no choice but to totally destroy North Korea. Rocket Man is on a suicide mission” |
#Embarrassing #Dangerous #Stupid |
Oh god no... |
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Roon
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Posts: 1816
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | Not saying the tactic Trump is taking is the right one, but what we've done since Clinton hasn't exactly worked swimmingly, has it?
So what's the solution? |
Seoul is still standing and we are not at war with N. Korea or any of their allies.
It's gone fine. |
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